[MacMelo]

Hi everyone,

This is my first post, and its actualy not a "cry for help", since the problems are already solved... I'm posting this for future reference by people facing similar scenarios. Ok... let me begin...

A few days ago, my PowerBook G4 began to act VERY VERY strange... system crashes during routine tasks (like setting the clock), everyday tasks would take forever to complete, booting turned into a LONG and TEDIOUS experience... Immediately, I thought: MEMORY PROBLEMS... Since I have 1Gb (2 x 512Mb) installed, I was able to remove one module at a time, to test the system... Nothing changed...

One or two days later, the situation was still the same... BUT to complicate things the system began to crash with tasks like copying files from the internal HD (system) to my external firewire HD, which I use to backup things... A few times I received a error message (code -36), indicating a I/O problem... WAS MY HARD-DRIVE GONE???
My fear increased when after trying to restart the system failed to boot... Sometimes it was alright (a little longer than normal, but... IT BOOTED) and sometimes it freezed...

Booting from the install DVD, I tried every kind of repair available in the disk utility (disk repair, permissions repair)... NOTHING REALLY SOLVED THE PROBLEMS... a few times the boot would be ok, while at other it would take forever...

Thinking the system files were probably so messed up that were not recoverable, I attempted to perform a fresh install of Mac OSX... All my files were backup, so I was free to try this...

After repartitioning the HD, and refformating it, I installed MacOSX in the firs partition... Installation was a breeze... Everything was fine, and I kinda' regained my confidence... HOWEVER, the next day, the situation was back... Errors, crashes... etc etc etc

My next move was to run the APPLE HARDWARE TEST... In the extended test, a "MASS STORAGE ERROR" was reported (2STF/8/3:ATA-100 ata-6-master)... IMMEDIATELY I CONCLUDED THAT THE HD WAS AS GOOD AS DEAD... As soon as I could, I've taken the PowerBook to an Apple authorized assistence, here in Brazil...

After hearing the complete story, told with far more details than I'm posting here, the technician (who was had an arrogant "know-it-all" attitude) recomended that I left the PowerBook there, so they could thoroughly evaluate it)... Well, I thought... That's it...

The next day, the technician told me that the problem was the system installation, and that he had to reinstall... No details... No consideration for all the facts I had presented (the problems were already there before the install, remember)... Believe it or not, he even told me that I had probably done something STUPID during the installation, and that's it... COME ON...
Anyone who has ever installed Mac OSX a few times (and I have done so 10-15 times) KNOWS IT'S FAIL PROOF...) And I deal with computer for 15 years now... Have already assembled a few PCs from scratch... Have repaired a few others myself... THE POINT IS: I KNEW I HAD NOT DONE ANYTHING BUT A CLEAN/FRESH INSTALL... THE RIGHT WAY... NO PROBLEMS THERE...

Of course, justa a few hours after returning home and putting the PB to test under a "real-life" scenario (copying files, opening a bunch of applications at the same time, etc) the problems were back... That was money well spent, I thought...


Well... I was convinced that the problem was the hard drive... As a last measure, I did one thing, that ended up solving my problem... REALLY SOLVING... NO MORE CRASHES, NO APPLE HARDWARE TEST ERRORS, BOOT IS AS FAST AS EVER, and as far as I can tell, the system performance is back to what it was the first day...

What I did was:

1. Booted from the install DVD
2. Opened Disk Utility
3. Erased completely the disk and volumes, by recording ZEROS to each sector of the hard-drive... This option is under the "Advanced" button, if I recall
4. After 30-40 minutes, the process was completed and I was able to split the hard-drive in 2 partitions
5. Installed MacOSX in the first, and things are PERFECT SINCE THEN...

The Apple Hardware test runs smoothly, no crashes or ANY other problem... And all because of the "ZERO OPTION" FORMATTING



I just wanted to leave this story filled here so that anyone get the chance to do what I did... Before I ended up with this solution, I ran into a LOT (really... A LOT) of posts reporting identical problems (crashes, Apple Hardware Test Mass Storage errors, Code -36 errors, etc etc etc), and the solution most frequently reported is TO GET A NEW HD... Of course that solves the problem, but if may be like exchanging your car just because you got a flat tire, or whatever example you find more useful... You get the picture, right...


Well... that was what I wanted to tell everybody...
Oh... by the way... Excuse me for my lousy english, ok??? Sorry...


And feel free to post any ideas, ok...

[Randman]

There's no need to partition. It's not a peecee. Unless you are a developer or are testing an os such as Tiger, there's 0 need for partitions.

Testing the ram is a good idea. If the clock was having troubles, I'd consider zapping pram and resetting the pmu. Also, did you run Disk Utility to see what the S.M.A.R.T statud was? Did you try any apps such as DiskWarrior?

The rest sounds sound, though zeroing the hard drive isn't anything new. You could find plenty of info on it right here.

So, other than the partitioning, sounds like you did the right thing.

[MacMelo]

Hi Randman,

Thanks for your reply... Things are really running fine... As for the ZERO-FORMAT thing, I know it's nothing new... What I meant is that in every other forum I checked, the solution for similar problems (Apple Hardware Test Mass Storage Errors, i/O error -36, etc etc...) was always the replacement of the HD... Without even mentioning the possibility of a zero-format...

As for the partitions thing, I confess its an old peecee habit (long time windows + short time linux)... I guess old habits really die hard, right? hehehe
However, I really find easier to mantain the system and perform backups by partitioning the HD... With one big partition (TOTAL HD SIZE), I frequently exceeded the space I have available for backup in my external drive (with music, photos, etc), because simply there is no limit, other than the total filling of the hard drive... I don't know if I was clear...

[MacMelo]

By the way...

I understand that there is no NEED for partitioning the HD... But is there any major downside of doing so???



EDITED: I've read some other threads on the subject, and things are "almost" clear now (partition vs non-partition)...

[urrl78]

Thanks for the heads up MacMelo. I know there are some here who appreciate what you have posted. We are not all Apple Geniouses here; I know I am not and appreciate the tip; well worth remembering.

I just had a little revelation myself if you will permit me to go off topic here. When trying to access Hotmail, Safari would always hang on my Powerbook 17". All of my browsers eventually could not get into the Hotmail inbox. I realized in short it was because I was not logging out of hotmail and needed to always log into Hotmail. Once I set my bookmarks to do this and deleted the old ones everything was fine. I presume the problem stemmed from Safari, Firefox, etc, was bringing up Hotmail pages from memory but I was not really logged in.

Again, thanks for the tip and hopefully there is someone out there who might appreciate mine.

[Detrius]

You have a bad hard drive. The tech that worked on your machine is clearly wrong.

I must admit, however, that I don't like talking to customers when they bring their machine in. All I need is the executive summary: machine is slow, hard drive failed AHT. I would verify with a surface scan and replace the drive.

here's what zeroing all data does: obviously, it writes zeros to the entire disk. In addition to this, the hard drive maps out the bad blocks that it can in the process. As such, if you only have a few bad blocks, this can make your drive appear to work for a while. Rest assured, your hard drive is failing. Unfortunately, since the bad blocks were mapped out, there may not be any evidence anymore. If your machine boots into OS 9, you can run a surface scan using Drive Setup Utility. If it can't finish, then the bad blocks weren't all mapped out. Regardless of how this completes, you should go back and get a refund for the money you spent and get the hard drive replaced under warranty--if you are under warranty. If it helps any, you can print out my post and take it with you. I can guarantee that I have more qualifications than the person that worked on your machine. I hate to toot my own horn here, but I would hate to see you get screwed by your warranty expiring. If he had run a surface scan, he would have seen the bad blocks. Period. 100% chance. You can spread the word that zeroing all data only makes your machine work when your hard drive is failing, and even then unreliably.

[bighead]

Originally posted by Detrius:
You have a bad hard drive. The tech that worked on your machine is clearly wrong.

I've had more experiences of a zero being successful than not, which is odd because I know we've discussed the topic of zero/install in threads before.

When I installed the Seagate 100 drive into my 1.5 GHz, I zeroed the HD successfully. On install attempt #1, it froze. Zero, rinse, repeat. Got OS X and all of my apps onto it the second time before it started audibly failing. Obviously, it was failing.

I've dealt with machines where an erase/install doesn't fix the stability issues even without audible failure or SMART failing the drive. Not often, mind you, just some of the time. After a zero of the HD, if the system so much as farts (or doesn't take an install of the OS) I replace the hard disk and things work out fine. More than once, though, I've seen a zero/install work out perfectly without so much of a sign of drive failure or system instability after the service.

I think that the zero process that Apple uses in the Disk Utility may actually perform more than just the zeroing, because if it is simply corrupted data structures of some sort, one would think a simple erase would fix the issue. With zeroing, most failing hard disks would either not finish the zero process at all or show signs of failure afterwards. Why zeroing would restore long-term functionality to a drive when a simple erase wouldn't in some cases (assuming their processes are essentially the same otherwise) is odd to me.

Rambling: Done.

[MacMelo]

Thanks to everyone who is posting for helping me (and others too, I hope)...
If something new happens (good or bad), I'll post here, ok???

MacMelo

[MacMelo]

Just booted the system, and the boot time seemed way longer than normal.

No obvious " wrong" sounds (beeps or scratches), but I've noticed a subtle cyclic noise, like if some area of the hard-drive was being read over and over again. Can you guys imagine that???

Like: tr tr tr trrrrrrrrr tr tr tr trrrrrrrrr tr tr tr ttttttttttt

Other than this subtle noise and the longer boot time, things seem normal.



I guess it is dead, right??? Should I put it out of its misery, or should I let it stay in this zoombie state for some more time???
LOL

[Randman]

Better to get it repaired sooner than later. Backup and bite the bullet.

[MacMelo]

Originally posted by Randman:
Better to get it repaired sooner than later. Backup and bite the bullet.

Actually, the hard drive is empty... I mean, it's running OS X, but all my personal files are already in a firewire drive... So, that's ok...

Obviously, I'm going to replace the HD... which leads me to one new question... Is it possible to isolate the damaged sectors of the current HD in one hidden partition, so that I can use it in an external HD case???
I mean, is it possible to really isolate the problem, so that I don't have to throw it away??? I guess not, but...