[macgeek2005]

I have a brand new 23" ACD waiting for my Mac Pro to arrive. It has serial number 2A6312XXXX

It's the latest model, with the improved brightness and contrast, however I was just reading some stuff about it over at macrumors.com, and I read horrifying things. I read that every single 23" ACD has major problems, and that they all have backlight bleed (what the hell is that anyway?)

Can someone that has a 23" ACD SN 2A62XXX or later confirm that there are some that exist without problems????

THANKSSS

p.s. yes, I am kind of freaking out.

[nerd]

Remember that you hear a lot more complaints online but not the positive stories.

With that said..... I got a 23" display a couple months ago from the Dallas Apple store and it had a very bad ghosting problem. I returned it and asked for a refund. They took it back with no hassles.

Test it out and if it's fine keep it, if not then return it. I wouldn't stress it any more then that. With the Dell monitors that everyone raves about on this board I've read bad things on other boards.

[macgeek2005]

Originally Posted by nerd

Remember that you hear a lot more complaints online but not the positive stories.

With that said..... I got a 23" display a couple months ago from the Dallas Apple store and it had a very bad ghosting problem. I returned it and asked for a refund. They took it back with no hassles.

Test it out and if it's fine keep it, if not then return it. I wouldn't stress it any more then that. With the Dell monitors that everyone raves about on this board I've read bad things on other boards.

Can somebody list for me every possible problem, and how to identify it? See, I don't even know what Ghosting is, or Backlight bleeding.....

Thanks

[Eug]

If you can't see it, then don't worry about it. Cuz once you learn about it, even slight problems that Apple won't fix will become obvious, and will drive you up the wall.

That said, I had lots of stuck pixels on my 20" iMac, and Apple happily replaced the panel.

[macgeek2005]

Originally Posted by Eug

If you can't see it, then don't worry about it. Cuz once you learn about it, even slight problems that Apple won't fix will become obvious, and will drive you up the wall.

That said, I had lots of stuck pixels on my 20" iMac, and Apple happily replaced the panel.

Now i'm thinking, maybe one of the 3 Intel iMacs we just bought have display problems and I don't know about them.

Anyway, thanks for the help I guess.. but can you please tell me what backlight bleed and ghosting are?

[iREZ]

to test ghosting...change your background to a solid color and open up a finder window or something and let it sit there for 10 minutes, then quickly move it but keep your eye on where it originally was...if you still see its image there, youre seeing it's 'ghost'.

backlight bleeding is best noticed in a dark room with the screen on and set to completely black, if you see it...you'll see it.

[macgeek2005]

Originally Posted by iREZ

to test ghosting...change your background to a solid color and open up a finder window or something and let it sit there for 10 minutes, then quickly move it but keep your eye on where it originally was...if you still see its image there, youre seeing it's 'ghost'.

backlight bleeding is best noticed in a dark room with the screen on and set to completely black, if you see it...you'll see it.

Thanks. Now I know what my monitor won't have.

[Apfhex]

Are you sure SN starting with 2A6312 is the new spec? I mean, I have no idea, but I heard SN's starting with 2A6281 (week 28 of this year) were the start of the new ones. Anywho, mine has the new specs and I have blacklight bleeding.

The issues that I've heard about are
- image persistence: when you leave a window up for a few minutes and then move it, you can still see a "ghost" of that window in that spot.
- ghosting: moving objects leave a short trail behind them that disappears quickly.
- blacklight bleeding: what iREZ said. An all black screen in a dark room will show you lighter blotches in some spots, where light from the blacklight is "bleeding" through. From what I've heard almost ALL of the 23" and a few of the 30" models have some level of backlight bleeding, sometimes not bad enough to bother with.
- pink color: I haven't seen this, but I guess it's where the whole screen has a slight pink color to it and it *can't* be fixed by calibration.
- dead/stuck pixels. Every LCD can have these.

With these issues, if you can't see it, then be happy. Some of us (me ) are very scrutinizing of these screens and would be bugged by even the slightest defect. The backlight bleeding, though, generally can't be seen unless you're trying, so I'm unsure about mine...

[macgeek2005]

Originally Posted by Apfhex

Are you sure SN starting with 2A6312 is the new spec? I mean, I have no idea, but I heard SN's starting with 2A6281 (week 28 of this year) were the start of the new ones. Anywho, mine has the new specs and I have blacklight bleeding.

The issues that I've heard about are
- ghosting/image persistence: when you leave a window up for a few minutes and then move it, you can still see a "ghost" of that window in that spot.
- blacklight bleeding: what iREZ said. An all black screen in a dark room will show you lighter blotches in some spots, where light from the blacklight is "bleeding" through. From what I've heard almost ALL of the 23" and a few of the 30" models have some level of backlight bleeding, sometimes not bad enough to bother with.
- pink color: I haven't seen this, but I guess it's where the whole screen has a slight pink color to it and it *can't* be fixed by calibration.
- dead/stuck pixels. Every LCD can have these.

With these issues, if you can't see it, then be happy. Some of us (me ) are very scrutinizing of these screens and would be bugged by even the slightest defect. The backlight bleeding, though, generally can't be seen unless you're trying, so I'm unsure about mine...

Serial Numbers 2A6260 and later are new specs..... Thanks for all the info.

[chefpastry]

Originally Posted by iREZ

to test ghosting...change your background to a solid color and open up a finder window or something and let it sit there for 10 minutes, then quickly move it but keep your eye on where it originally was...if you still see its image there, youre seeing it's 'ghost'.

backlight bleeding is best noticed in a dark room with the screen on and set to completely black, if you see it...you'll see it.

I always thought that ghosting was when a moving object on the screen leaves a trail of itself. This is typically a result of slow response times on monitors.

What you are talking about, I think is referred to as a "persistent image" (at least that's what Apple calls it)...

[macgeek2005]

Can someone who has a "problem-free" 23" ACD confirm that they do exist?

[joe]

Originally Posted by macgeek2005

Can someone who has a "problem-free" 23" ACD confirm that they do exist?

Yes, they do exist. Mine is flawless. I bought it off eBay nearly a year ago and it's worked perfectly ever since. To be fair, I was very concerned at the time of purchase because of red/pink caste complaints unique to this model. I'd actually seen an affected 23" ACD on display at an AppleStore and it looked horrible. Sort of like an older TV set with a "warm" preset, the entire picture appears slightly dark and muddy and has a reddish or brownish hue.

Thankfully mine suffers none of the problems mentioned in this thread or earlier threads. Not even dead/stuck pixels. I suspect that Apple corrected most of the problems with this model last year. I don't know that for certain. But there have been less threads about this model since last fall.

[cbrfanatic]

i have the gateway version, alot cheaper then the same size ACD, and have non of these problems....

[nerd]

Originally Posted by iREZ

to test ghosting...change your background to a solid color and open up a finder window or something and let it sit there for 10 minutes, then quickly move it but keep your eye on where it originally was...if you still see its image there, youre seeing it's 'ghost'.

backlight bleeding is best noticed in a dark room with the screen on and set to completely black, if you see it...you'll see it.

The display I got would have the ghosting after leaving the window up for only 30 seconds.

[Apfhex]

Originally Posted by macgeek2005

Serial Numbers 2A6260 and later are new specs..... Thanks for all the info.

Sorry, I read your serial wrong, I just noticed my mistake. You have a newer one than mine I think.

Originally Posted by chefpastry

I always thought that ghosting was when a moving object on the screen leaves a trail of itself. This is typically a result of slow response times on monitors.

What you are talking about, I think is referred to as a "persistent image" (at least that's what Apple calls it)...

You're right, there's a difference between ghosting and image persistence (I also edited my above post to correct for this).

[Bigfoot]

Originally Posted by macgeek2005

Can somebody list for me every possible problem, and how to identify it? See, I don't even know what Ghosting is, or Backlight bleeding.....

Thanks

I bought one a couple weeks ago. Drove an hour up and back to the Apple store... did the same thing the very next day to return it. That's four hours folks. Ask me if I was pissed off... what quality control. From now on its mail order for me.

Anyway, here is what image persistance looks like. I've read where some guys made returns six times before getting a good one (I stopped at one... I'm a quick study). I'm thinking I can get better results with one of those cheap but good monitors listed on another thread. FYI, that was an open itunes window. Enjoy...

[macgeek2005]

Well as the OP, and with the purpose of this thread being to determine my chances of getting a good one, I can say that mine is perfect!

For the 2 days that my Mac Pro was working, I was using the 23" ACD with it, and it is flawless. Just flawless. I can't wait to see it on again when my replacement Mac Pro arrives.

[chefpastry]

I think that the problem lies with the panel that Apple chose to use. That being said, I wonder if monitors from other companies that use the same panel have the same issues.

[Apfhex]

Originally Posted by macgeek2005

For the 2 days that my Mac Pro was working, I was using the 23" ACD with it, and it is flawless. Just flawless. I can't wait to see it on again when my replacement Mac Pro arrives.

Did you try a serious backlight bleeding test? At night turn off all the lights and put a solid black image on the display. Is it uniform? This seems to be the biggest issue with the newer ones—bleeding also appears to be commonly concentrated towards a spot in the top-middle and the lower left corner. If it's possible to get one that's really all perfect, I might have to more seriously consider getting mine replaced.

[MovieCutter]

You're joking right? You have a 23" display that you don't see any problems with, but now you're LOOKING for them? What's your problem? If you don't see it, what's the point of going over it with a fine-toothed comb to find a flaw that will make you hate your display even though right now, it's apparantley perfect/acceptable. Horrifying things??? You are seriously twisted. If backlight bleeding or stuck pixels or tinted colors are considered by you to be "horrifying", I'd hate to see what you'd consider real life horrors. Genocide in Darfur is horrifying, your 23" LCD display with a potential stuck pixel is laughable. This is ridiculous.

[Naaaaak]

I took the plunge and purchased a 23" ACD. We'll see how this goes...

[Apfhex]

Originally Posted by MovieCutter

Horrifying things??? You are seriously twisted. If backlight bleeding or stuck pixels or tinted colors are considered by you to be "horrifying", I'd hate to see what you'd consider real life horrors.

Do you understand what an exaggeration is? Obviously no one is truely "horrified" by this, but it can be pretty disappointing to spend $900+ on a display and have it have defects. Backlight bleeding (and the other defects) is a real useability problem, but the thing is, under "normal" circumstances you might not notice it at first. When I first got my 23" I thought it was perfect, but a day later I was being bothered quite a bit by the bleeding.

[Naaaaak]

Originally Posted by Apfhex

it can be pretty disappointing to spend $900+ on a display and have it have defects. Backlight bleeding (and the other defects) is a real useability problem, but the thing is, under "normal" circumstances you might not notice it at first. When I first got my 23" I thought it was perfect, but a day later I was being bothered quite a bit by the bleeding.

I second this. Day 1 you are giddy with your new purchase. Day 2 you start to notice the flaws. Day 3 you decide you might not be able to live with them for what you paid.

I am very skeptical of anyone who says they have a "perfect" LCD. Show me a supposely "perfect" LCD and I can find the flaws pretty quick. I've been through 5 LCDs now. I attempted to avoid the Apple tax but all it caused was hassles and fees so I hope this is worth it. My 20" iMac screen really spoiled me; it didn't excell in one area but it did everything good. Everything I've tried since then has been able to do a few things good, one or two things very well, but had one critical shortcoming in some area.

[Oversoul]

Guys, I'd like some feedback here:

I've been having the worst luck with 23" ACDs since my initial purchase in mid-August.

My first 23" ACD had a 2-3" scratch on the back of the display. I promptly returned it.

My replacement 23" ACD had the exact same problem as Bigfoot (ghosting/persistence). In fact, my screen looked exactly like his after a mere 10 minutes or so of leaving a web browser and iChat on. I recently returned that ACD for a new one.

Problem is, my third ACD is also showing signs of ghosting/persistence. Although not to the extent of the second one, this is clearly a problem.

I've noticed all the ACDs the Apple Store's sold me or offered as replacements were built before the WWDC change in specs. I have also noticed that a lot of the complaints regarding 23" ACD problems concern the older model displays.

I'm considering just returning my ACD to the Apple Store one last time and asking for a refund, and meanwhile ordering a new screen off the Apple Store online. I'm almost convinced the brick and mortar Apple Store is clearing out their inventory of older displays and any display they may offer me as a replacement will likely have the same problems that seem to plague the older models.

Now, if any of you have ordered a 23" ACD recently, can you tell me if it's the newer model? According to a poster on xlr8yourmac, the serial numbers for these are 2A6281XXXXX and up. I want to know if the online Store is shipping the latest models.

[Bigfoot]

Originally Posted by Oversoul

Guys, I'd like some feedback here:

I've been having the worst luck with 23" ACDs since my initial purchase in mid-August.

My first 23" ACD had a 2-3" scratch on the back of the display. I promptly returned it.

My replacement 23" ACD had the exact same problem as Bigfoot (ghosting/persistence). In fact, my screen looked exactly like his after a mere 10 minutes or so of leaving a web browser and iChat on. I recently returned that ACD for a new one.

Problem is, my third ACD is also showing signs of ghosting/persistence. Although not to the extent of the second one, this is clearly a problem.

I've noticed all the ACDs the Apple Store's sold me or offered as replacements were built before the WWDC change in specs. I have also noticed that a lot of the complaints regarding 23" ACD problems concern the older model displays.

I'm considering just returning my ACD to the Apple Store one last time and asking for a refund, and meanwhile ordering a new screen off the Apple Store online. I'm almost convinced the brick and mortar Apple Store is clearing out their inventory of older displays and any display they may offer me as a replacement will likely have the same problems that seem to plague the older models.

Now, if any of you have ordered a 23" ACD recently, can you tell me if it's the newer model? According to a poster on xlr8yourmac, the serial numbers for these are 2A6281XXXXX and up. I want to know if the online Store is shipping the latest models.

It wasn't until I bought mine, found the problems and researched them online that I soon realized there were (lots) of issues with that model. I don't have the patience to play the return game. I stopped with the first. The folks at the Apple Store plugged it in, confirmed the problem and gave a full refund without hassle or restocking fee... though I was prepared to stop payment on my credit card had they tried.

The fact that there is a 24" imac out leads me to believe there will be a 24" ACD soon. Why the bump up an inch to 24" on the imac? Why is Dell now using 24" displays? Maybe some unsurmountable inherent technical reasons the 23" created issues, who knows. I will not buy another 23" ACD.

I've been using a 20" plastic ACD for years now without a hitch. It, along with my dual 1.25 G4 will be moving to my daughters room making room for a mac pro. What display I end up with is still a mystery. Many posters on the Apple discussions who had returned the 23" switched to a Dell 24" with good results, or maybe I'll end up with a dual 19" setup.

[chefpastry]

Just to clarify... So you guys are having ghosting and image persistance issues and not just image persistence?

[macgeek2005]

To those of you who say that my display probably has problems, I can confirm that it does not.

One of you mentioned being spoiled by a 20" iMac screen which was flawless. I have 2 20" iMac screens in the house, and my 23" ACD looks exactly like them and acts exactly like them, except for being bigger and brighter. If there is a "flaw" that I can't see, feel, or hear, then I don't consider that a flaw, and for all I know, it might be on my iMacs too.

I don't know what you're getting at here. My display is a display. In fact, before I even got on these forums, I didn't know that displays could so often be defective, and I'd never had any problems with any display i'd ever bought.

I do have one of the newer models, and I think that has something to do with it. While there may be some out there with the newer specs that have problems in spite of it, I don't think mine is one of them.

[damiensmunki]

Does backlight bleeding shift as the viewer's position shifts? If you move your head, does the bright area change?

[Oversoul]

Originally Posted by chefpastry

Just to clarify... So you guys are having ghosting and image persistance issues and not just image persistence?

I have image "persistence" problems, but I've seen it referred to as "ghosting." I'm not entirely sure which is the correct term.

Again, if anyone's ordered a 23" ACD from the online Store recently, are they shipping the updated models? (Though even those seem to have problems)

[Naaaaak]

Originally Posted by Bigfoot

or maybe I'll end up with a dual 19" setup.

The industry seems really geared towards 19" LCDs in terms of pricing, options, and quality. You generally have to pay quite a bit more for even 1 extra inch and widescreen.

That being said I can never go to a resolution lower than what I am currently used to, so going under 20" won't work for me.

[macgeek2005]

Originally Posted by Oversoul

I have image "persistence" problems, but I've seen it referred to as "ghosting." I'm not entirely sure which is the correct term.

Again, if anyone's ordered a 23" ACD from the online Store recently, are they shipping the updated models? (Though even those seem to have problems)

The online store is shipping the newer models.

I have one of them, and it is perfect except for a few stuck pixels. Toward the left side of the screen there is a red one, and toward the right side there is a blue one. I can't see them unless the screen is black.

Is there anything I can do about them?

[macgeek2005]

Oh come on, does nobody have advice on fixing stuck pixels? Or are they dead? One's red and one's blue..... I can't see them unless the screen behind them is black.

[Apfhex]

Those sound like stuck. Dead would be black. There were some utilities out there that would flash colors on the screen or something like that to try and un-stick the pixels. May or may not work. I don't know a specific one to suggest though.

[macgeek2005]

I just did a more careful scan of the entire screen for stuck pixels. I opened a quicktime movie which was black at the beginning, and put it full screen, then paused it. The entire screen was black but backlit, and I noticed a few other funny pixels. They are a lighter color than the rest of the screen but only from certain angles. From some angles they are normal, and from others they are almost white, except they're really hard to see, they don't stick out or anything. Also, I might have spotted one more blue stuck pixel.

Anyone else?

[Naaaaak]

Just received my 23" ACD earlier today. Ordered from the Apple Store online. It should be a new model, serial: 2A632XXXXXX. I put it through a bunch of tests and have attached images (click to see larger images). Issues of note and questions:

1) The colors had a warm tint to them out of the box. A slight magenta cast was noticeable on whites and grays. I suppose this has to do with Apple's ISO certification for whatever print thing they passed, since print stuff tends to be warmer, IIRC. A quick calibration fixed things up and made grays nice and neutral. For some reason I could not get good pictures displaying this, but can other new 23" ACD owners confirm this warm tint?

Also something to note, it almost seems like the left side of the screen is casting a slight reddish color onto everything a couple inches from there. Friends say I'm imagining things, but I really think the background color for Mail looks purpler when on the left side of the screen versus elsewhere (the center). Thoughts?

Mail Left Screen vs Mail Mid Screen

2) No dead pixels, but one red stuck pixel mid left. Like macgeek, I only see it when something dark around RGB(50, 50, 50) or lower passes over that area. I attempted to fix with rapid color flashing movies and a massage, but that did not do anything. For anyone who has done this successfully, how long should the movie method take? I gave it 12 minutes but that failed. I'm 0 for 3 for fixing stuck pixels on various monitors, so maybe I lack the magic touch.

3) The top left to middle area and the bottom right to middle area exhibit some backlight bleed, noticeable against blacks and dark grays. Can other new 23" ACD owners confirm similar backlight bleed?
All lights on:

All lights off:

(Cursor points to the red stuck pixel. There is Another red dot in both images that does not appear on the screen so I assume it is something with the camera I used).

4) My last complaint is about the power brick and combined cable. Considering the features of the monitor and Apple's thing with simplicity, there really should be no power brick. But I suppose it would add extra heat to a unit that has no ventilation which could be bad. The combined cable is pretty stupid, however. With my setup, because of the power brick and because the DVI cable is so short I have no choice but to let the power brick rest on my MacPro and stretch other cables unnecessarily for the DVI to reach. Also, why is the DVI cable only single link? If it were dual link, we could conceivably bump the refresh rate from 60Hz to 75Hz or something, right?

Other things to note: I don't have image persistence like someone reported in this thread. It's a bright display. Response time is good; I tried UT2004 in BootCamp and it's as good as other LCDs I've tried that were rated 6ms. The box it came in mentions that it requires a G4 or G5; no mention of the MacPro (interesting oversight). I kind of wish Apple would offer a glossy option and HDCP support (considering everything else is so minimal and Apple is all "year of HD").

Because I have nowhere else to throw it in, here's an obligatory gradient test:


Other than those noted issues I think the display is good. There is no perfect LCD, but I am curious how my unit compares to what else is out there. Part of me says I should be happy with this screen and stop obsessing over details. Another part is kind of annoyed by the backlight bleed and that 1 stuck pixel. For what Apple charges, I'm not so sure I'd be willing to live with those flaws considering everything else the screen lacks ("simplicity" only goes so far). Having documented all the perceived flaws, it's kind of an important decision because it's $1000 and I'll have to live with this screen for a while.

I'm leaning towards an exchange and would appreciate any feedback.

[macgeek2005]

If it's nothing that actually bothers you when you use the monitor, I wouldn't exchange it. I was thinking about calling apple up because of my 3 stuck pixels, but the fact is, I just don't see them. It's as if they're not there, so what does it matter?

About the flashing video thing, you're supposed to leave it on all day........ 12 minutes is nothing.

But from your above images I can confirm that my display has no backlight bleed whatsoever, and no color changes anywhere either, although I didn't see a change in that mail picture either...

At this point i'm a little bit annoyed with apple for making these 23" ACD's so prone to faults, but when it comes down to it, this thing works, and when i'm sitting in front of it, 99.8% of the time it looks perfect.

If this is true for Anyone else who has problems with their monitor, then really, don't bother.

[Bigfoot]

Originally Posted by Naaaaak

...Part of me says I should be happy with this screen and stop obsessing over details. Another part is kind of annoyed by the backlight bleed and that 1 stuck pixel. For what Apple charges, I'm not so sure I'd be willing to live with those flaws considering everything else the screen lacks ("simplicity" only goes so far). Having documented all the perceived flaws, it's kind of an important decision because it's $1000 and I'll have to live with this screen for a while.

I'm leaning towards an exchange and would appreciate any feedback.

I know how you feel. For a thousand bucks it should be perfect. That said, if you don't have the image persistance that I had (image above) I could live with the unit you have. A couple of stuck/dead pixels really is nothing. The backlight thing is odd. I can't duplicate that on my 20" acd and I don't know how that relates to real world usage. Your obsessing because of the amount of money you spent (and I'm hearing ya), which is why mine went back. My experience is exchanges only prolong the pain. I usually move on to something else. I can get all these defects (or maybe not) and spend a whole lot less.

Bottom line... its your decision.

[Apfhex]

Originally Posted by Naaaaak

1) The colors had a warm tint to them out of the box. A slight magenta cast was noticeable on whites and grays. A quick calibration fixed things up and made grays nice and neutral. For some reason I could not get good pictures displaying this, but can other new 23" ACD owners confirm this warm tint?

Yes, mine had a warm/magenta tint with the default color profile. Properly calibrated it looks very nice.

Also something to note, it almost seems like the left side of the screen is casting a slight reddish color onto everything a couple inches from there. Friends say I'm imagining things, but I really think the background color for Mail looks purpler when on the left side of the screen versus elsewhere (the center). Thoughts?

Yes! I can confirm exactly the same thing, except on the opposite side of the screen for me. I also can't tell if it's my imagination or not. If I'm not looking for it, I can't tell, so I figure it's OK.

3) The top left to middle area and the bottom right to middle area exhibit some backlight bleed, noticeable against blacks and dark grays. Can other new 23" ACD owners confirm similar backlight bleed?

That bleeding looks to be about as bad as mine. The lightest spot you have on the left side there, I have right in the middle. This is the biggest issue with my screen.

For what Apple charges, I'm not so sure I'd be willing to live with those flaws considering everything else the screen lacks ("simplicity" only goes so far). Having documented all the perceived flaws, it's kind of an important decision because it's $1000 and I'll have to live with this screen for a while.

I know what you mean. I would be able to live with the flaws if it were a less expensive screen, but for that price shouldn't we get something less flawed? I haven't called Apple about a replacement under warranty because I'm afraid it might lead to a series of replacements that are worse, and I hate dealing with stuff like that, but since this is bothering me every time I sit down at my Mac, I might have to at least try so that it won't bother me for the rest of my use of the display.

[Naaaaak]

I decided to play the return game. New screen has no dead or stuck pixels and is pretty much identical to the older unit. However, it exhibits backlight bleed from the top right corner mostly. Some images:



The bleed in the top right is worse than it looks; it's quite noticable while playing movies during dark scene transitions and dvd menus (brightness at 9 / 16 ticks for these images; obviously, it looks worse with higher brightness).

However, I also noticed a new problem during my testing. There appear to be some serious afterglow issues on darks; anyone care to verify similar behavior with the Flurry screensaver:


A few LCDs from other companies I've tested have afterglow issues on darks, usually minor, but this is the worst I've seen.

I need a two screen setup and I'm kind of used to 23" now. But again, considering what I'll be paying (almost as much as the cost of the MacPro) I don't think it's worth it for the flaws I am seeing. I'm leaning heavily towards a return and will probably acquire an NEC 20" LCD I've been using temporarily. By comparison:

NEC backlight bleed:


NEC afterglow:


Thoughts?

[Oversoul]

I just ordered a new 23" ACD from the Apple Store online, and I'll be returning my current ACD once I receive the new one. I'm hoping my new ACD will be one of the new models and not have the horrid image persistence issue that's plagued my last two. I'll try to report on backlight bleeding and afterglow issues. Hopefully four time's a charm.

[Apfhex]

Originally Posted by Naaaaak

I decided to play the return game. New screen has no dead or stuck pixels and is pretty much identical to the older unit. However, it exhibits backlight bleed from the top right corner mostly.

The bleed in the top right is worse than it looks; it's quite noticable while playing movies during dark scene transitions and dvd menus (brightness at 9 / 16 ticks for these images; obviously, it looks worse with higher brightness).

How was your return experience? Did you go to a retail store or by mail?

That sucks about the bleeding, it doesn't seem like there are actually any 23"s without. I'm way past any return period so I'm stuck with mine (at least I have AppleCare for it).

However, I also noticed a new problem during my testing. There appear to be some serious afterglow issues on darks; anyone care to verify similar behavior with the Flurry screensaver:

Hmm, I've seen that in the Flurry screensaver too but I thought it was just due to how it worked. I think I've seen the same thing with it on other LCDs too.

[Naaaaak]

Originally Posted by Apfhex

How was your return experience? Did you go to a retail store or by mail?

By mail through the Apple Store online. It was a replacement, not a return. They considered the first unit defective and paid two day shipping on the return of the old one and the new one. I'm impressed by Apple's customer service; they were quick and easy to understand and didn't give me a hard time. First replacement I've done as long as I've been a Mac user.

Originally Posted by Apfhex

That sucks about the bleeding, it doesn't seem like there are actually any 23"s without. I'm way past any return period so I'm stuck with mine (at least I have AppleCare for it).

I'm beginning to agree with the backlight bleeding. I expect it to a degree on every display, but the 23" ACDs are the worst I've personally seen so it took me by surprise. This is Apple, after all. If something doesn't pass the Jobs inspection it tends not to ship. Maybe he's sticking to MacBook Pros these days?

AppleCare is a necessity, I think. I had a friend who had an old 23" ACD die on him after 2 years. The top of the unit can get quite hot and I wonder if no ventilation slits had something to do with his unit dying.

Originally Posted by Apfhex

Hmm, I've seen that in the Flurry screensaver too but I thought it was just due to how it worked. I think I've seen the same thing with it on other LCDs too.

Part of the problem are the settings of the monitor; the problem is definitely more noticeable when the brightness is at the highest. I think it's also caused by overdrive in some displays. A ViewSonic vx2025wm exhibits it a little worse than the NEC. It wasn't present on a Dell 2007FPW from what I could recall. My 20" iMac G5 didn't have it, either. That built-in display really spoiled me (and set some high expectations for the standalone displays).

[Naaaaak]

Originally Posted by Oversoul

I'll try to report on backlight bleeding and afterglow issues. Hopefully four time's a charm.

I look forward to your results.

I actually have not had any image persistence problems. Is there any particular test case that demonstrates it best? Like a textedit window against a black backdrop? How long would a window or something else need to remain in place for me to really notice the problem? Thus far, image persistence on the Apple displays I've been getting has been no worse than any other displays.

You are quite patient. 2 exchanges is where I draw the line and try something else.

[Apfhex]

Originally Posted by Naaaaak

By mail through the Apple Store online. It was a replacement, not a return. They considered the first unit defective and paid two day shipping on the return of the old one and the new one. I'm impressed by Apple's customer service; they were quick and easy to understand and didn't give me a hard time. First replacement I've done as long as I've been a Mac user.

Er, right. Replacement is what I meant to say. Did they send the new one before the old one such that you didn't have to do without a display for a couple days?

It's not like I don't still love the 23", but sometimes love can hurt.

[Naaaaak]

Originally Posted by Apfhex

Er, right. Replacement is what I meant to say. Did they send the new one before the old one such that you didn't have to do without a display for a couple days?

No, I had to send the old one back then call them with the tracking number (which they provided). Once they saw the old one was moving towards them they sent out the replacement. Otherwise I would have been without an ACD until they recieved the old one.

[Oversoul]

Originally Posted by Naaaaak

I look forward to your results.

I actually have not had any image persistence problems. Is there any particular test case that demonstrates it best? Like a textedit window against a black backdrop? How long would a window or something else need to remain in place for me to really notice the problem? Thus far, image persistence on the Apple displays I've been getting has been no worse than any other displays.

The second unit I received from Apple had a particularly bad persistence problem. I would just have a webpage open, say Apple's start page, leave the browser window open and on that page for about 10 minutes while I was afk, and then I'd come back, close the window and notice a persistent image against a gray background. Anything with high contrast against white seemed to create the problem.

Keep in mind though that this happened on one of the older spec'ed displays.

[maceye]

I just bought a 23" one today, and the first one had horrible ghosting. I returned it, and got another one from the Apple store.

The second one was much better, but had bad backlight bleeding.

The screen just died on me 5 minutes ago. I tried two different powerbooks and the display is totally dead (won't turn on).

I've never experienced awful quality like this from Apple. I don't know if it's a good idea to return it and get another one, or if I should just return it and buy another brand... I would suggest you all stay away from the 23" cinema display, though. It looks hot, but it does not work as a screen.


EDIT:

Ok so now it works; I let it sit for a while, and it turns on. I think it actually overheated (the top part). But I am in an air conditioned room; there is no sunlight pouring in on the screen since it's night... I wonder if I should return it for the backlight bleed, though, as if I can only use it for like 3 hours at a time it's pretty much useless...

[Oversoul]

Maceye, sorry to hear about it. If the screen's dead, I think that's reason enough for Apple to accept a return and offer you a replacement.

The return game really sucks. And after returning back to the Apple Store several times already with ACD problems, I get the feeling they're secretly rolling their eyes. The funny thing, however, is that despite going on several forums and finding similar complaints re: the 23" ACD on all of them, I still find the Apple Store employees shocked as if they're hearing about these problems for the first time.

[maceye]

The screen died again, but in much less than 3 hours... BAH HUMBUG (what I'm really thinking is not so PG-13).




EDIT:

My serial starts with 2A6250... does this mean I do not have one of the new spec ones?



UPDATE:
I returned the screen and ordered a 24" Dell one. It's too bad the Dell is ugly, but I really just want a screen that works. At least the Apple store employees were nice, although I do believe they lied to me when they said this is the first they have heard of the problem... maybe steve-o personally yelled/threw a stapler at each one :-P

[macgeek2005]

I just read a story over at macrumors.com about a guy who exchanged his 23" ACD 4 times before getting a perfect one. The story really bugged me for a few reasons. Well, first of all, here are approximetaly what his 4 displays did.

1st display had one stuck pixel.

2nd display had two stuck pixels and backlight bleed.

3rd display had image persistance and ghosting.

4th display was PERFECT!

This story pissed me off because here I am with 5 stuck pixels and backlight bleed, saying "If I don't see the problems 99.5% of the time, there is no point in an exchange, it's too big a hassle", and this guy replaces his display over ONE STUCK PIXEL!!!!!

How spoiled can someone get??? The story didn't make me jealous or anything. It didn't make me consider exchanging mine. My display looks perfect. 100 out of 100 people who come into my house will look at my display and see no problems. They just aren't noticable. Most people wouldn't even notice backlight bleed unless they're looking for it and the screen is black, and the stuck pixels CANNOT be seen no matter what, unless the screen is black, and you have your face up to it.

This guy exchanges a display over ONE STUCK PIXEL. I just can't believe it!! It ticked me off so much! I feel sorry for apple, that they have to deal with such meticulous assholes.

Now, if my display had any image persistance/ghosting problems, I would exchange it, because those actually are noticable when you are using the monitor.