[Athens]

Originally Posted by Railroader

Hey, I'm just trying to offer you some advice. Good sound advice. I was handed nothing in life and I excelled beyond my surroundings.

You constantly state on here how much you hate your life. How you don't trust anyone. How you want to move. How your credit stinks. How bad your job is. How you live in a crappy neighborhood. How you have to drive past needle-row (orwhatever you call it) daily.

I am trying to help you see a way out of that kind of lifestyle.

Hopefully someone will be there when you finally accept a little help.

I agreed with you that Credit is something you don’t use, I agreed with you that using credit is debt, all I am saying is that its good to establish a good credit rating regardless if you use it or not. For a couple reasons one day you might need it, say a 25 000 medical operation, and most ppl have to use credit to get a home these days, with house prices in the 600 000+ range its almost impossible to save up to buy outright. My job sucks because of the hours im stuck at, and I don’t complain that I drive through skidrow. My credit stinks because of the mistake I made with putting my BF ahead of my financial well being, in fact most of my HATE my life issues are him, including the don’t trust anyone. Mistake already made and lesson learned. We have a difference of opinion on the value of having good credit over no credit at all. As some one living the life of bad credit and my mom who is living the life of no credit which is the same as having no credit in most cases I hold value on Good credit.

[Athens]

As I was reminded, another good reason to have good credit, apartment leases and rentals. Lots of places now will refuse to rent if your credit history isnt good, I know I was rejected by more then enough places just because of bad credit. Thank you Railroader for reminding me of this.

[Railroader]

Originally Posted by Athens

I agreed with you that Credit is something you don’t use, I agreed with you that using credit is debt, all I am saying is that its good to establish a good credit rating regardless if you use it or not. For a couple reasons one day you might need it, say a 25 000 medical operation, and most ppl have to use credit to get a home these days, with house prices in the 600 000+ range its almost impossible to save up to buy outright. My job sucks because of the hours im stuck at, and I don’t complain that I drive through skidrow. My credit stinks because of the mistake I made with putting my BF ahead of my financial well being, in fact most of my HATE my life issues are him, including the don’t trust anyone. Mistake already made and lesson learned. We have a difference of opinion on the value of having good credit over no credit at all. As some one living the life of bad credit and my mom who is living the life of no credit which is the same as having no credit in most cases I hold value on Good credit.

No, you don't understand. We do not agree.

You shouldn't care what your credit rating is. Save your money and buy what you want. Own what you want to possess. It's a freedom that few people realize. It's amazing what you can accomplish with that freedom.

As I said before, you have a lower-class mentality when it comes to credit. It seems you'll be stuck there a while.

[Railroader]

Originally Posted by Athens

As I was reminded, another good reason to have good credit, apartment leases and rentals. Lots of places now will refuse to rent if your credit history isnt good, I know I was rejected by more then enough places just because of bad credit. Thank you Railroader for reminding me of this.

Or you pay a deposit. Which is a million times better than having a bad credit rating. Remember, you'll get that deposit back. You won't get back money you paid to creditors for their "generosity".

I have a semi-related question Athens: Do you rent your furniture and appliances too? Ever visited one of those "pay check advance" places? I going to guess: yes and yes.

[Athens]

Originally Posted by Railroader

Or you pay a deposit. Which is a million times better than having a bad credit rating. Remember, you'll get that deposit back. You won't get back money you paid to creditors for their "generosity".

I have a semi-related question Athens: Do you rent your furniture and appliances too? Ever visited one of those "pay check advance" places? I going to guess: yes and yes.

You pay a deposit on all rentals, 50% one months rent. Its illegal for them to ask for more then that. Regardless of what you offer as a deposit, bad credit no rental, end of story for places that do credit checks.

No I don’t rent my furniture or appliances. And I’ve never used a check advance place. So the answer is no and no, why I don’t get what

[RAILhead]

Originally Posted by Athens

Do u have a cell phone?

Yes, and the monthly payment is drafted from my bank account and I paid cash for my contract. Verizon Wireless.

[RAILhead]

Originally Posted by Railroader

You want to look respectable? Intelligent? Pay with cash. You should see the look on a car salesman's face when you tell/ask him: "How much of a discount can you give me if I pay cash today?". His jaw will drop and you will save a lot of money.

Do you have any idea the amount of money you throw away buying a house on a mortgage? Even at 5.5%? There's a reason why the federal government lets you deduct your mortgage interest. But even the end of that has been proposed.

Hear hear! When I bought my Titan, we were standing at the back of the truck with the bed down, and I asked if he'd give it to me for $25,000 dollars, total. He actually laughed, to which I said "I'm going to ask you one more time then I'm out of here." I then removed a massive envelope containing cash, laid it down on the hatch, and said "I'll give you $25,000 cash for it. Go get this approved or I walk."

Needless to say, I didn't walk -- I drove off in my current Nissan Titan after paying only $25 for everything (tax, title, etc.).

[RAILhead]

Originally Posted by Athens

I ment railhead, your names are similar

And yes your barber is extending you Credit until you actually pay him. Unless you pay first then get the goods, that is a form of credit. They are rendering the service with the expectation you will pay. Credit is not just about Money.

I really was responding to RailHead though

Athens, that "reasoning" is pedantic and semantic. Spare us.

[OldManMac]

Originally Posted by Railroader

Uhhh... that's "Railroader".

You want to look respectable? Intelligent? Pay with cash. You should see the look on a car salesman's face when you tell/ask him: "How much of a discount can you give me if I pay cash today?". His jaw will drop and you will save a lot of money.
.

Really? Just curious; where do you buy your cars at? I spent a dozen years working at car dealers, and they typically walk away from a customer who wants to pay cash, because they are making less money on the deal. They get commissions from banks for getting you into an installment contract, and people who buy with cash are less likely to buy extended warranties, etc. That may be changing now, as car sales are tanking, but that hasn't been the case for decades, in my experience, especially when they can get someone to pay more money for their product.

[RAILhead]

Originally Posted by KarlG

Really? Just curious; where do you buy your cars at? I spent a dozen years working at car dealers, and they typically walk away from a customer who wants to pay cash, because they are making less money on the deal. They get commissions from banks for getting you into an installment contract, and people who buy with cash are less likely to buy extended warranties, etc. That may be changing now, as car sales are tanking, but that hasn't been the case for decades, in my experience, especially when they can get someone to pay more money for their product.

It depends on the quality of the dealership, your relationship with the dealership, and your reputation. Personally, I only go to the highest-end dealers and I have for years — as has my family. We're well known car buyers and we make it a point to form a relationship with a specific dealer.

Of course, all of that is mostly when I'm buying an Infiniti, Lexus or BMW — but when i went for my Titan, I found the Nissan dealership that was working long-term.

Also, I only deal with a sales person as an absolute last resort: I always deal with the finance manager. And yes, I've been known to leave a dealership when the FM wouldn't speak to me — and I promptly faxed over the bill of sale from their competitor's dealership.

[bad_quote]

Originally Posted by Athens

As I was reminded, another good reason to have good credit, apartment leases and rentals. Lots of places now will refuse to rent if your credit history isnt good, I know I was rejected by more then enough places just because of bad credit. Thank you Railroader for reminding me of this.

Maybe it's because you don't know the difference between 'then' and 'than'.

[bad_quote]

Originally Posted by Railroader

No, you don't understand. We do not agree.

You shouldn't care what your credit rating is. Save your money and buy what you want. Own what you want to possess. It's a freedom that few people realize. It's amazing what you can accomplish with that freedom.

I'm not sure I'd call responsible consumerism 'freedom'. Freedom is reached when you realize that all this stuff is just 'stuff'. People, knowledge, and experiences are vastly more important.

[RAILhead]

Originally Posted by bad_quote

I'm not sure I'd call responsible consumerism 'freedom'. Freedom is reached when you realize that all this stuff is just 'stuff'. People, knowledge, and experiences are vastly more important.

You totally missed his point.

Correct me if I'm wrong RR, but what you were getting it at is that it's amazing what you can do with the freedom of owing no man or institution anything. I don't peter-out 1/4 or a 1/3 or 1/2 my income on debt payment. Back in the day, I used to shell out over $700 in car payments, $1500 in a house note, and over $2000 per month on CC debt. That's a lot of money to give out.

No longer.

I'm debt free, pay cash for everything (or via debit card), and I KEEP that $4000-plus every month. No one gets it unless I want to give it.

The freedom comes from knowing that I'll be a multi-millionaire when I retire thanks to my retirement investments, my wife will never have to want for anything, and if and when I have kids, their college will be paid for in full by the time they're 18, and because I don't have any payments to make, I can save and buy whatever I dadgum well please without going into debt.

The freedom is not being a slave to a payment. Money is to be mastered, not mastered by. Becoming the master is having financial peace and freedom.

[bad_quote]

Originally Posted by RAILhead

You totally missed his point.

Correct me if I'm wrong RR, but what you were getting it at is that it's amazing what you can do with the freedom of owing no man or institution anything. I don't peter-out 1/4 or a 1/3 or 1/2 my income on debt payment. Back in the day, I used to shell out over $700 in car payments, $1500 in a house note, and over $2000 per month on CC debt. That's a lot of money to give out.

But if you own your house, surely you went into debt to own it.... or did you pay cash for that too?

and if and when I have kids, their college will be paid for in full by the time they're 18, and because I don't have any payments to make, I can save and buy whatever I dadgum well please without going into debt.

And htey'll end up being brats who haven't earned anything. I don't care how much money I make, I'm not buying my kids a nice car, they're getting a beater. And I'm not paying for college. Maybe the last 2 years if the previous years GPAs were high enough.

[RAILhead]

Originally Posted by bad_quote

But if you own your house, surely you went into debt to own it.... or did you pay cash for that too?

Why, yes I did.

And htey'll end up being brats who haven't earned anything. I don't care how much money I make, I'm not buying my kids a nice car, they're getting a beater. And I'm not paying for college. Maybe the last 2 years if the previous years GPAs were high enough.

Who said anything about buying them a car? I'll probably match whatever they can earn and buy them something, so how much of a beater it is will depend upon how seriously that want a "nice" car.

As for college, I see no reason to let my (potential) kids or family incur debt to get an education -- but that's just me.

[bad_quote]

Originally Posted by RAILhead

Why, yes I did.

So wait.. you're saying you paid cash for a house. How did you manage to save up that much cash while wasting so much money renting?

[RAILhead]

I haven't rented in years.

I lived in a house and paid a mortgage on it while ramping-up investment money to buy the house we'll live in until we die. While saving up, I had the mort on the one house -- but with what I saved plus the money we made selling, I paid cash for the new home.

[bad_quote]

Originally Posted by RAILhead

I haven't rented in years.

I lived in a house and paid a mortgage on it while ramping-up investment money to buy the house we'll live in until we die. While saving up, I had the mort on the one house -- but with what I saved plus the money we made selling, I paid cash for the new home.

So you DID go into debt to get a house.

[RAILhead]

Originally Posted by bad_quote

So you DID go into debt to get a house.

Ugh.

When did I ever say I had never been in debt?

And no, I didn't "go into debt to get a house" -- I went into debt when we got our first home, before I realized how stupid it was to make payments for the next 15 years if I didn't have to. Once I realized how much money I was wasting I did what I needed to do to end the debt, and in the process, part of our answer was to buy a home that we'd want to have until we killed over.

That's what we did.

[strictlyplaid]

From the arguments that Railroader and RAILhead are making, it sounds like never using credit is the right choice for them. Apparently, they can't use a charge card without feeling the insatiable urge to run down to the Rent-a-Center and the Check-Cashing usurers -- I can only assume that's why they think everyone else does so. (Let me guess -- you know a "Person Who." Thanks for the selected-sample anecdote.) For people like that, credit is indeed a very bad thing.

For those of us without hundreds of thousands of dollars in cash lying around and the ability to make rational financial decisions, however, using credit to buy capital goods is a rational decision. (Let me guess -- anyone who doesn't have hundreds of thousands of dollars in cash to buy a house doesn't have it because they blew all their money on interest. Most academics/professors don't make $300,000 a year, but thanks anyway.)

Corporations go into debt to finance start-up and expansion all the time (venture capital, etc.) and without that capital available they could never get started. (Few entrepreneurs have the millions of dollars necessary to finance start-ups in many industries.) Let me guess -- but X corporation went bankrupt because it sank under a load of debt. Again, thanks for the selected sample: include that company with the hundreds of thousands of start-ups that were financed by some form of venture capital, be it inheritance from Daddy or capital from private investors or a stock issue, and it's clear that credit is not the explanatory variable of corporate failure.

And let me guess -- "I started MY business from scratch with my own money." Well that's fine, if you (a) have a rich daddy or (b) are going into a field with very low start-up costs, or (c) are not counting stock issues or private investment loans as a form of credit, which they are. But your sample of 1 (or maybe 5 if you've got five buddies) isn't exactly a generalizable set of cases.

Let's call an end to this thread; we're getting nowhere fast.

[bad_quote]

Originally Posted by RAILhead

Ugh.

When did I ever say I had never been in debt?

And no, I didn't "go into debt to get a house" -- I went into debt when we got our first home,

You make no effing sense. You did. You didn't. You did. You didn't.

[RAILhead]

Originally Posted by strictlyplaid

Let's call an end to this thread; we're getting nowhere fast.

That's why you will fail, financially -- as far as statistics go. Of course, that may be fine for you and others, but not for me.

Rent-A-Center? I never said anything about any of that, though renting a dishwasher is pretty stupid, financially.

And no, I don't have hundreds of thousands laying around, I just invest wisely and live below my means. There are only 3 reasons why one can't pay cash for large purchases (from home repair to houses): 1) You have no income 2) You don't save 3) You're impatient and not willing to save. The amount of one's income doesn't dictate what they can purchase -- the amount of time an individual saves for an item does.

We aren't talking about corporations, we're talking personal finance. Individuals don't have the same protections businesses have, so quit grasping at straws.

[RAILhead]

Originally Posted by bad_quote

You make no effing sense. You did. You didn't. You did. You didn't.

No, you seem too be unable to understand English.

[bad_quote]

Whatever. You didn't go into debt. Unless it was for your first house. But you weren't in debt. But you were. Weren't. Were. Whatever.

[strictlyplaid]

Originally Posted by RAILhead

That's why you will fail, financially -- as far as statistics go. Of course, that may be fine for you and others, but not for me.

I'm so convinced by your total lack of evidence. (Oh wait, you said the word "statistics" -- that's almost as good as having some.)

"That's why you will fail, financially." I'm just sitting here pondering the astounding arrogance it took for you to write that statement. As a matter of fact, I'm debt-free right now -- and yes, I own a credit card. I'm in graduate school, taking home around $22k a year -- I'm guessing that's quite a bit less than you make.

Originally Posted by RAILhead

Rent-A-Center? I never said anything about any of that, though renting a dishwasher is pretty stupid, financially.

I was responding to:

Originally Posted by Railroader

I have a semi-related question Athens: Do you rent your furniture and appliances too? Ever visited one of those "pay check advance" places? I going to guess: yes and yes.

Believe it or not, you're not only not the center of the universe, you're not even the only person in this thread.

Originally Posted by RAILhead

And no, I don't have hundreds of thousands laying around, I just invest wisely and live below my means.

That's why you buy houses and cars in cash? So do you not have that money, or do you? Which is it?

Originally Posted by RAILhead

There are only 3 reasons why one can't pay cash for large purchases (from home repair to houses): 1) You have no income 2) You don't save 3) You're impatient and not willing to save. The amount of one's income doesn't dictate what they can purchase -- the amount of time an individual saves for an item does.

What a brilliant insight; I'm beginning to wonder why I did all that work for a Ph.D. in the social sciences when I could have just learned at the school of RAILhead, Freelance Designer and Random Guy On the Internet.

To point out the blindingly obvious, a person who makes $35,000 a year (around the median income) and lives on, say, $25,000 (fairly difficult with a family) would take 10 years, minimum, probably more like 20, to afford even a very small home. That's not including any other large purchases they'd need in order to live, such as even modest automobiles and repairs. So they could throw away rent money for 20 years... OR they could be building equity by buying a home with a loan, and at the end of the 20 years have a home whose full value they own. They will have lost some money in interest, but not as much as they would have lost in rent.

Originally Posted by RAILhead

We aren't talking about corporations, we're talking personal finance. Individuals don't have the same protections businesses have, so quit grasping at straws.

The principles are exactly the same for corporate capital goods as for personal capital goods, such as homes (though not automobiles, which depreciate too fast.) And, private individuals also have extensive bankrupcy protections, as I'm sure you well know.

[RAILhead]

It all boils down to this: you can keep your money and manage it, or you can let all of it go to never ending debt and never ending payments.

Of course I'm out the money when I drop $25 to $40k on a car, but it didn't take me 36 to 60 months to pay for it. Why? Because I've been investing for 20+ of years and I've made enough on investment interest that I can yank out that much without skipping a beat. It's called financial planning.

As for your family example, yes, renting is a waste of money -- but by and large, most people jump into loans and mortgages that eat-up 1/2 of their income. Doing that, you'll never get ahead. A person that only brings home $3000 per month doesn't need a $1500 mort, but, if you do some research, you'll see that's what most people do.

You ought to look into the main causes of debt and bankruptcy in our country.

But of course, you know everything already and have it all figured out and I'm just a d00d on teh intarweb.

[bad_quote]

So when should you start planning for a house?

[RAILhead]

Originally Posted by bad_quote

So when should you start planning for a house?

As early as possible. Save and save often and begin investing in long-term funds with solid track records.

However, the first thing to save for is an "emergency." Stock back a grand or two (if you haven't already) in case a real "disaster" happens.

Then, pay off all your debt to open your income. If you already have a mort, refinance it before the rates go back up. Kill your debt, kill your debt, kill your debt -- and commit to no longer borrowing money.

Third, save up some cash to cover necessities in case you were to lose your job or have to stop working. In those situations, people can usually find a job in 3 to 6 months, so save back whatever bill necessities you'd need to live (food, clothing, electricity, etc) for 3 to 6 months. Put t his in a fund that gets *some* interest, but it needs to be liquid.

Fourth, figure out a plan for retirement so you'll actually have money when you get old. Saving 15% of your income is a basic starting point, and this should be invested in Roths and work 401ks if they offer them. 15% may sound like a lot, but remember: you're debt free, so if your debt payments were eating 15% or more of your income, you at least break even.

Fifth, begin planning for the big things (like a house). Whatever is left over needs to be invested in more long term funds that don't have to be quite so liquid. Jump into some Index funds and things like that, knowing you won't touch the money for several years. Keep putting money into it every month. Live well below your means now so that you can live well above them later.

So, you should begin saving for a house when you house is in order, IMHO, as stated above.

[strictlyplaid]

Originally Posted by RAILhead

It all boils down to this: you can keep your money and manage it, or you can let all of it go to never ending debt and never ending payments.

Of course I'm out the money when I drop $25 to $40k on a car, but it didn't take me 36 to 60 months to pay for it. Why? Because I've been investing for 20+ of years and I've made enough on investment interest that I can yank out that much without skipping a beat. It's called financial planning.

Sure, and now that you have that option, that's great for you. Investing and living off of your assets is a good thing. I'm all for saving and using the money to buy, rather than buying on credit.

For a house, for most families in the US, that's not an option--they don't have enough income to build up the investments fast enough to get a home before they're 50. It's better for them to get a loan (low interest at the moment, though rising), buy a house, and have equity building up along the way.

For emergencies that happen when you're 23 and haven't had years to save and invest, that's not a good option either. I have a pretty reasonable belief that by age 35 or so I'll be in your position; right now, I'm not and there's no real way I can be unless someone leaves me an inheritance.

Originally Posted by RAILhead

As for your family example, yes, renting is a waste of money -- but by and large, most people jump into loans and mortgages that eat-up 1/2 of their income. Doing that, you'll never get ahead. A person that only brings home $3000 per month doesn't need a $1500 mort, but, if you do some research, you'll see that's what most people do.

The argument you're making now is not that credit is bad, but that using it unwisely as bad. No one's arguing with that. Certainly no one's saying that a lot of Americans aren't abusing it, to their own detriment.

Originally Posted by RAILhead

You ought to look into the main causes of debt and bankruptcy in our country.

See the above. It's like saying that people who drive too fast and get into car wrecks (Many do!) are proof that no one should own a car.

Originally Posted by RAILhead

But of course, you know everything already and have it all figured out and I'm just a d00d on teh intarweb.

Yeah, but once I'm middle-aged and own my own design business then I can be secure in the belief that I'm right and can learn nothing from anyone.

[RAILhead]

Originally Posted by strictlyplaid

Yeah, but once I'm middle-aged and own my own design business then I can be secure in the belief that I'm right and can learn nothing from anyone.

1. I'm 31, not "middle-aged".
2. I own a design "business," but that's not my "real" job/source of income.
3. I learn from people with more experience than me.

[strictlyplaid]

Originally Posted by RAILhead

1. I'm 31, not "middle-aged".
2. I own a design "business," but that's not my "real" job/source of income.
3. I learn from people with more experience than me.

1. Good for you.
2. I care.
3. Apparently not.
4. Way to respond to nothing but the last line of my post.

[RAILhead]

Because you didn't say anything new or that hadn't already been discussed?

[bad_quote]

Why don't we get in line to suck railhead off, I think that's what he really wants everybody to do.

[Spliffdaddy]

If you have to get it on credit - you can't afford it.

Why is that such a difficult concept to grasp?

[OldManMac]

Originally Posted by RAILhead

It depends on the quality of the dealership, your relationship with the dealership, and your reputation. Personally, I only go to the highest-end dealers and I have for years — as has my family. We're well known car buyers and we make it a point to form a relationship with a specific dealer.

Of course, all of that is mostly when I'm buying an Infiniti, Lexus or BMW — but when i went for my Titan, I found the Nissan dealership that was working long-term.

Also, I only deal with a sales person as an absolute last resort: I always deal with the finance manager. And yes, I've been known to leave a dealership when the FM wouldn't speak to me — and I promptly faxed over the bill of sale from their competitor's dealership.

I see. So dealerships are willing to sacrifice profits to have a "relationship" with you? That's strange; every dealer I've ever worked for (7) is interested in profits, and it has nothing to do with the "quality" of the dealership. Are you saying that "quality" dealers are willing to sell you an occasional car at a discount because you're a nice guy, and you walk in with a boatload of cash? If you're buying fleets, then it's a different story, but I've been around the car industry many years, and still have friends in the dealer business, and there's one thing that's a given in the car sales business; you can't bullsh!t a bullsh!tter. The finance manager, especially, is interested in maximizing profits. His job, and pay, are dependent on how much his sales staff generates, not on his "relationships" with his customers (unless they bring in profit). FMs, and car salesmen, are a dime-a-dozen, and they jump from dealer to dealer, always looking for greener grass (which they rarely find). The last I checked, the average pay of a car "salesman" is around $35K/year. I don't know what it is for FMs, but it can't be much higher. I have currently two family members who work at a car dealership, and they've seen three General Managers, four Finance Managers, two Parts Managers, 2 Service Managers, and at least a dozen salespeople, in the course of three years, and this is at VW/Porsche/Audi/Mazda franchise which does very well, and which is part of one of the larger dealer groups in the Midwest, and which is definitely considered a "quality" dealership.

I was in computer sales for ten years, and people who came in telling us that they were paying with cash, and who weren't interested in any add-ons, especially extended warrantys and training classes, never got discounts and were generally rushed up to the cashier, per management, so we could get to the next customer and increase our odds of making money. That's they way it is in sales, and car dealers are among the most notorious at pressuring customers to add to their profits. "Quality" dealers don't stay in business. They work off a cost/profit model, the same way you run your business (I assume). Your time is valuable to you, and if you make less money on one deal, you're going to spend less time on all aspects of that deal.

The only time there is an exception is when business is bad, and any sale is better than no sale, much like the fire sales the "Big Three" (which two of them aren't anymore) had this fall, and which they've now discovered have cost them sales and profits for the rest of the year.

Naturally, it would make sense that you wouldn't deal with a lowly salesperson.

[Railroader]

Originally Posted by KarlG

Really? Just curious; where do you buy your cars at? I spent a dozen years working at car dealers, and they typically walk away from a customer who wants to pay cash, because they are making less money on the deal. They get commissions from banks for getting you into an installment contract, and people who buy with cash are less likely to buy extended warranties, etc. That may be changing now, as car sales are tanking, but that hasn't been the case for decades, in my experience, especially when they can get someone to pay more money for their product.

within 15 miles of my home from two different dealerships.

I'm going to guess that you haven't bought a car in the last ten years.

Remember the rebate war?

The "employees discount for everyone" sales?

Sales at their lowest level in 13 years news?

Dealerships are desperate.

[OldManMac]

Actually, I bought a car five years ago, but it was used. I'm not sure if I'd ever buy another new car again. Besides, I forgot that you buy GM products, and they truly are desperate. Demanding discounts on hot selling cars, just because you have cash in hand, will get you a laugh and a disappearing salesperson otherwise.

[RAILhead]

Well Karl, I don't know what to tell you other than I guess we Texas Fat Cats do things differently down here.

[Railroader]

Originally Posted by KarlG

Actually, I bought a car five years ago, but it was used. I'm not sure if I'd ever buy another new car again. Besides, I forgot that you buy GM products, and they truly are desperate. Demanding discounts on hot selling cars, just because you have cash in hand, will get you a laugh and a disappearing salesperson otherwise.

Just keep focusing on that during your endless miles of driving truck. I am sure it will keep you from thinking about the reality of today's car buying and how dealerships operate in the 21st century.

And your last little qualifying statement is slightly true. However, if I walk into a dealership with money in hand and another guy walks in with "as yet unapproved credit status" and we both try to buy the last corvette on the lot, who do you think is going to get the car? My money's ont he guy with the wad of cash in his pocket. Credit rating indeed.

[OldManMac]

Originally Posted by Railroader

Just keep focusing on that during your endless miles of driving truck. I am sure it will keep you from thinking about the reality of today's car buying and how dealerships operate in the 21st century.

And your last little qualifying statement is slightly true. However, if I walk into a dealership with money in hand and another guy walks in with "as yet unapproved credit status" and we both try to buy the last corvette on the lot, who do you think is going to get the car? My money's ont he guy with the wad of cash in his pocket. Credit rating indeed.

I'm sorry; I forgot that you are the expert on everything automotive, even though I've worked in dealers and still have friends and family who do. How dare we challenge you?

As to your second statement; the dealer will stall you, while they get the guy's credit approved. If he gets turned down, your salesperson will mysteriously reappear.

If you think dealerships operate much differently today, then maybe you should find out why more people would rather have teeth pulled than buy a new car. But of course, you know better.

[Athens]

Originally Posted by RAILhead

Yes, and the monthly payment is drafted from my bank account and I paid cash for my contract. Verizon Wireless.

how much of a cash deposit did u have to put on it, and whats the terms with the return of the deposit?

[Railroader]

Originally Posted by KarlG

I'm sorry; I forgot that you are the expert on everything automotive, even though I've worked in dealers and still have friends and family who do. How dare we challenge you?

As to your second statement; the dealer will stall you, while they get the guy's credit approved. If he gets turned down, your salesperson will mysteriously reappear.

If you think dealerships operate much differently today, then maybe you should find out why more people would rather have teeth pulled than buy a new car. But of course, you know better.

Look, I'll admit you know a lot about cars and the auto industry, however, you admitted you haven't bought a car in the last 5 years and you bought a used car at that. When was the last time you bought a new car?

I have bought 8 new cars in the last 10 years.
'95 Olds
'95 Pontiac
'97 GMC Pick-up
'98 Bonneville
'00 GMC Jimmy
'03 Pontiac
'03 Mini-Van
'04 Cavalier

I have a lot of current-day experience buying cars. I might know a little bit more about this topic than you do.

[Athens]

Originally Posted by Spliffdaddy

If you have to get it on credit - you can't afford it.

Why is that such a difficult concept to grasp?

This thread is really about 2 different things. Having a credit to purchase things and go into debt and having a good credit history to show you are a low risk and credit worthy aka Cell Phone contracts, apartment leases...

Since RailHead had a morgage and credit cards he established good credit unless I missed somewhere he failed payments and ****ed up something so as it stands the guy telling every one that credit isnt important already enjoys a good credit rating anyways so he dosent matter. I assume RailRoader also has a credit card or at some point has had a credit card and also has a good credit rating. So again what he say dosent matter because again he enjoys the status of good credit.

[OldManMac]

Buying new cars at a dealership doesn't make you an expert; it just means you've bought 8 new cars, and you've had apparently good experiences, and I'm glad you did. Statistically, it's still anecdotal, compared to thousands of experiences reported to places like J. D. Power and Consumer Reports, and Edmunds and the tales I hear regularly from dealership employees, which include family and friends who work in dealers, and I'd place my money on them before you (no offense). Read this: it's far more accurate than your anecdotal experiences. http://www.edmunds.com/advice/buying...2/article.html

A while back you were telling us all here how GM is making tons of money, and implying that it was doing just fine financially, when in fact that was not the case, and it's even worse now, yet you refused to concede to the facts, despite plenty of evidence presented that showed otherwise. I'm quite sure you're very good at what you do for GM, and you are to be commended for believing in your employer, as that's a rare quality these days. Unfortunately for you, however, loving your job and employer seems to blind you to what's happening in the auto industry.

[Railroader]

Originally Posted by KarlG

Buying new cars at a dealership doesn't make you an expert; it just means you've bought 8 new cars, and you've had apparently good experiences, and I'm glad you did. Statistically, it's still anecdotal, compared to thousands of experiences reported to places like J. D. Power and Consumer Reports, and Edmunds and the tales I hear regularly from dealership employees, which include family and friends who work in dealers, and I'd place my money on them before you (no offense). Read this: it's far more accurate than your anecdotal experiences. http://www.edmunds.com/advice/buying...2/article.html

And where is your "facts" to back up your anectdotal statements? And the post you supplied is simply someone else's anectdotal experience.

Let's see some studies about buying a new car with credit v. buying a new car with cash. Guess what, there aren't any.

Originally Posted by KarlG

A while back you were telling us all here how GM is making tons of money, and implying that it was doing just fine financially, when in fact that was not the case, and it's even worse now, yet you refused to concede to the facts, despite plenty of evidence presented that showed otherwise. I'm quite sure you're very good at what you do for GM, and you are to be commended for believing in your employer, as that's a rare quality these days. Unfortunately for you, however, loving your job and employer seems to blind you to what's happening in the auto industry.

Why do you bring this up? I wasn't the one who brought up GM. And I never even recommended GM cars to any one in this thread. Auto-news changes quarterly at the very least. All I said was, we are very busy buying new cars at GM, and we are being forced to work overtime. GM was selling more car than ever (at the time) and was spewing some spin in the hopes of renegotiating with the union. But... try to stay on topic and start a new thread about GM if you really want to discuss this.

[bad_quote]

Originally Posted by Railroader

NYAR GM HAS TO SUCK PEOPLE OFF IN ORDER TO GET PEOPLE TO BUY GM PRODUCTS BECAUSE THEY SUCK SO MUCH ASS!

Indeed.

[bad_quote]

Originally Posted by KarlG

I'm sorry; I forgot that you are the expert on everything automotive, even though I've worked in dealers and still have friends and family who do. How dare we challenge you?

Dude he works at a ****ing factory with no formal education! How can you beat him! Oh.. easily. He's a ****ing moron.

[bad_quote]

Originally Posted by Railroader

I have bought 8 new cars in the last 10 years.
'95 Olds
'95 Pontiac
'97 GMC Pick-up
'98 Bonneville
'00 GMC Jimmy
'03 Pontiac
'03 Mini-Van
'04 Cavalier

Gee, wonder why you have to buy new cars so often....oh wait, they're all GM products. Nevermind. Makes sense now.

[bad_quote]

Originally Posted by Railroader

Why do you bring this up? I wasn't the one who brought up GM. And I never even recommended GM cars to any one in this thread. Auto-news changes quarterly at the very least. All I said was, we are very busy buying new cars at GM, and we are being forced to work overtime. GM was selling more car than ever (at the time) and was spewing some spin in the hopes of renegotiating with the union. But... try to stay on topic and start a new thread about GM if you really want to discuss this.

Kilbey once again proves he is incabable of admitting he is wrong.

[Athens]

Originally Posted by bad_quote

Gee, wonder why you have to buy new cars so often....oh wait, they're all GM products. Nevermind. Makes sense now.

HAHAHAH I was thinking there All American but I'll accept all GM