[sideus]

Originally Posted by budster101

Also, what did she say on her death bed? I didn't quite get it. Anyone?

"There is still good in him."

[Severed Hand of Skywalker]

Originally Posted by budster101

Also, what did she say on her death bed? I didn't quite get it. Anyone?

"Yoda is the real father"

[sideus]

"Jar Jar is the daddy"

[Lancer409]

"anakin likes to get fisted"

[dlefebvre]

Originally Posted by budster101

But it is in how he dies that matters. He gives himself of his own free will, and that is I think part of the secret. The main difference betwen those that follow the dark side and those who do not give into it is this.

The followers of the dark side will never be able to discover this, unless they denounce the dark side. The whole idea of the strangth of the Siths comes from the focus they obtain through their passion. In this passion, there lies their inability to give in as does a true Jedi. Once he gives in and releases his passion and the dark side he obtains the knowledge and ability that Yoda, and Obi-Wan had.

BTW: They are never taught how, they discover it for themselves. I think that is the only way, which also confuses those on the dark path, as they believe they have to be taught everything.

Well said!

[insha]

What is meant by "virgin birth"? Does that refer to the birth of the twins by Padme or Anakin's birth?

[selowitch]

Originally Posted by Eriamjh

I'm surprised that no one has realized that the Emperor likely does not have the power to save lives, nor did anyone in the Sith. I don't think this power really exists and that the Emperor lied to Anakin to help push him in his conversion to the Dark Side.

Or perhaps he does. Maybe Anakin was really dead at Mustafar until the Emperor laid his hands on him at the lava river's edge.

Originally Posted by insha

What is meant by "virgin birth"? Does that refer to the birth of the twins by Padme or Anakin's birth?

Anakin's, unfortunately.

Originally Posted by Randman

"Luminous beings we are, not made of this crude matter are we."

A more relevant quote might be:

LUKE: Master Yoda, you can't die!
YODA: Strong am I with the Force ... but not that strong.

It seems to imply that one stronger in the Force than he could conceivably stay alive forever.

[Randman]

Originally Posted by selowitch

Or perhaps he does. Maybe Anakin was really dead at Mustafar until the Emperor laid his hands on him at the lava river's edge.

Nope, Palpatine makes a comment about how Vader is still alive.

[Jim Paradise]

Originally Posted by Lancer409

"anakin likes to get fisted"

[selowitch]

Originally Posted by Randman

Nope, Palpatine makes a comment about how Vader is still alive.

Oh, yeah. That's right. So much for my theory. :-)

Of course, he could have been lying so no one would know about his secret ability, but that's stretching things a bit far, I admit.

[Severed Hand of Skywalker]

So what was the point of Palp being kidnapped in the beginning? Was the General working for Palp or did he really kidnap him?

[starman]

Originally Posted by Severed Hand of Skywalker

So what was the point of Palp being kidnapped in the beginning? Was the General working for Palp or did he really kidnap him?

You have to watch Clone Wars season 2, but there is mention in the film that had the Chancellor not been kidnapped, Obi-Wan and Ani wouldn't have been called back from the Outer Territories. Coinkidink?

Also, Grievous coughs the way he does because of what happens in CW2.

Mike

[Severed Hand of Skywalker]

Originally Posted by starman

You have to watch Clone Wars season 2, but there is mention in the film that had the Chancellor not been kidnapped, Obi-Wan and Ani wouldn't have been called back from the Outer Territories. Coinkidink?

Also, Grievous coughs the way he does because of what happens in CW2.

Mike

Never watched that cartoon. Anywho, you are saying that Palp wanted to get his mits on Anakin so he setup his own kidnapping right? Isn't he already in high power and could have ordered him back for whatever reason he wanted?

What happened to Grievous to make him cough?

P.S I hope they fixed R4, i'm was more traumatized by her kicking the bucket then padme.

[selowitch]

Originally Posted by Severed Hand of Skywalker

So what was the point of Palp being kidnapped in the beginning? Was the General working for Palp or did he really kidnap him?

I think the latter. Like virtually everything else, Palpatine engineered the war through his apprentice, Count Dooku, and capitalized on a very real political schism in the Republic to create a crisis atmosphere under which he could be elevated to Chancellor and be awarded extraordinary emergency powers (no thanks to Jar Jar Binks) and could impose martial law.

It therefore stands to reason that General Greivous, who studied the Jedi arts under Dooku, was acting under indirect orders from Palpatine. It was all an elaborate ruse to lure Kenobi and Skywalker to Greivous' ship so that Anakin could confront and kill Dooku, thereby accelerating his fall to the Dark Side and also, interestingly, creating a vacancy in the Evil Dark Side Apprentice position for which Anakin spends so much of Episode III auditioning or interviewing.

BTW, I saw Episode III for the second time last night, and the flaws seem less severe than when I first saw it. I still don't like the slaying of the Younglings, but what are you going to do?

Originally Posted by ManOfSteal

Okay, so it seems like Death Star I was created in little to no time. Luke is just a baby in SW 3, and in SW 4 I'd say he is roughly 18. It took 18 years to build Death Star II? I cry foul.

This is especially the case when you realize that it took them only, say, four years or so to build Death Star II in time for it to become operational toward the end of Episode VI: Return of the Jedi.

[Severed Hand of Skywalker]

Originally Posted by selowitch

I think the latter. Like virtually everything else, Palpatine engineered the war through his apprentice, Count Dooku, and capitalized on a very real political schism in the Republic to create a crisis atmosphere under which he could be elevated to Chancellor and awarded extraordinary emergency powers and could impose martial law.

It therefore stands to reason that General Greivous, who studied the Jedi arts under Dooku, was acting under indirect orders from Palpatine. It was all an elaborate ruse to lure Kenobi and Skywalker to Greivous' ship so that Anakin could confront and kill Dooku, thereby accelerating his fall to the Dark Side and also, interestingly, creating a vacancy in the Evil Dark Side Apprentice position for which Anakin spends so much of Episode III auditioning or interviewing.

makes sense, thanks.

[starman]

Grievous was escaping from Windu, and Windu gave him a little Force Crush in his chest just before his ship took off.

Mike

[selowitch]

If you're going to hide an infant boy from his clairvoyant psycho Sith daddy (Vader) and his equally determined and evil master (Palpatine), why hide him on the planet of Vader's birth, give him the surname "Skywalker", and place him with Vader's stepbrother and his wife a short distance from Obi-Wan's oh-so-secret hiding place on the edge of the Dune Sea? Luke's grandmother is buried there, for crying out loud! Don't you think it's the first place the Empire would come looking, Death Star plans and wayward droids nothwithstanding?

But then, we're also asked to believe that the droid pseudo-narrators, R2-D2 and C-3PO, are always conveniently part of whatever is going on in the epic, with occasional mind-wipes and massive coincidences helping out along the way.

This is an example of how Lucas' reverse engineering of the sequels to fit the plot of the original trilogy has been somewhat faulty, IMO.

I suppose you could say that eventually, Yoda and Obi-Wan wanted the threat of his being found to prompt Luke to seek out the Alliance and the remnants of the Jedi Order, if for no other reason than to save his own life. But this seems a rather heartless calculation to make.

Oh, and also ... are we supposed to believe that when Leia recounts her images of her "real" mother, that she is not recalling Padmé at all, but rather Bail's wife Breha? And that she spent significant time with Darth Vader aboard the Death Star, but didn't spark any kind of recognition in her father? I guess we could buy that.

OFFICER: She'll die before she'll tell you anything!
VADER: Leave that to me.

TARKIN: She lied..... She lied to us!
VADER: I told you should would never consciously betray the rebellion.

Could there be an unacknowledged note of pride in Vader's statements? He also holds her back from assaulting Tarkin when he gives the order to destroy her "home" planet of Alderaan. Is he, on some unconscious level, trying to save her life? And is it something above and beyond his immediate need for her to lead him to Yavin, the location of the Rebel base at that time?

[starman]

Originally Posted by selowitch

Could there be an unacknowledged note of pride in Vader's statement?

No, because even then we knew that Leia was a badass. You're reading too much into it.

Mike

[selowitch]

Originally Posted by starman

You're reading too much into it.

Guilty as charged. But hey, man — this is Star Wars, after all!

[lavar78]

Originally Posted by selowitch

If you're going to hide an infant boy from his clairvoyant psycho Sith daddy (Vader) and his equally determined and evil master (Palpatine), why hide him on the planet of Vader's birth, give him the surname "Skywalker", and place him with Vader's stepbrother and his wife a short distance from Obi-Wan's oh-so-secret hiding place on the edge of the Dune Sea? Luke's grandmother is buried there, for crying out loud! Don't you think it's the first place the Empire would come looking, Death Star plans and wayward droids nothwithstanding?

That's what I was thinking while watching. My guess is that we're supposed to assume that Sidious and Vader don't know the children are alive. Obviously, that means there's no need to search for them. I can buy that; We have numerous examples that show the Force doesn't stop you from being completely clueless.

[Randman]

Well, we know that Vader did not know about the sister until Jedi. He probably thought the kid died with Padme. As far as hiding Luke, if you ever read Poe, the best place to hide something is right out in the open. Besides, it was mentioned in several of the movies how far away the planet was from the Galactic center.

Anyway, what's new in Empire when the Emperor talks with Vader? Someone mentioned it.

Also, we're going to have to specify which Skywalker and which severed hand. Luke has one, Vader lost 3!

[selowitch]

Originally Posted by Randman

Well, we know that Vader did not know about the sister until Jedi. He probably thought the kid died with Padme. As far as hiding Luke, if you ever read Poe, the best place to hide something is right out in the open. Besides, it was mentioned in several of the movies how far away the planet was from the Galactic center.

Not a bad argument, but unless Skywalker is like "Smith" a long time ago in that galaxy far away, it still seems like a pretty lousy Jedi version of the Witness Protection Program, esp. with his Jedi minder so nearby, also (by the way) going by the same old surname.

[Randman]

No more clever than sending Princess Leia (Leia not Leah) with an entire star cruiser to the planet to pick up General Kenobi while carrying plans for the Death Star aboard.

And don't forget that Luke had never met "Ben" Kenobi before Artoo when walkabout. And that Owen's surname was Lars not Skywalker. Besides, Anakin hated the planet so much, he probably didn't give it much thought (though I'm sure a search for Obi-Wan and Yoda had to be undertaken).

[selowitch]

Originally Posted by Randman

No more clever than sending Princess Leia (Leia not Leah) with an entire star cruiser to the planet to pick up General Kenobi while carrying plans for the Death Star aboard.

While I'm sure the spelling is L-E-I-A, the pronunciation is subject to debate. There are several instances of characters using the LEE-ah pronunciation as well as others using the LAY-ah pronunication, and it isn't consistent. I screw it up all the time because my wife, Leah, pronounces her name with the former style rather than the latter.

Originally Posted by Randman

And don't forget that Luke had never met "Ben" Kenobi before Artoo when walkabout.

What's your evidence for that?

OBI-WAN: Rest easy, son. You've had a busy day.
LUKE: Ben? Ben Kenobi? Boy, am I glad to see you!

It sure sounds to me like Luke at least knows what Obi-Wan looks like.

Originally Posted by Randman

And that Owen's surname was Lars not Skywalker.

All that proves is that you couldn't dial information and ask for "Skywalker farm" on Tatooine. But Luke wasn't really lying low, either. In fact, he was garnering quite a reputation as a pilot.

[Big Mac]

Originally Posted by selowitch

A more relevant quote might be:

LUKE: Master Yoda, you can't die!
YODA: Strong am I with the Force ... but not that strong.

It seems to imply that one stronger in the Force than he could conceivably stay alive forever.

Yoda was exaggerating. When one overestimates another's abilities, an exchange like this often takes place (picture a child talking to his father):

"You are so strong, I bet you could even lift a car!"
"I am strong, but not that strong. . ."

Yoda was strong with the force, but he was not strong enough to suspend its laws. Yoda accepted and even welcomed corporeal death.

[selowitch]

Originally Posted by Big Mac

Yoda was exaggerating.

I'm not saying you're wrong, but I don't interpret it that way. I think Yoda was at least hinting that there is a level of Force-proficiency that exceeds even himself.

[macaddict0001]

I think that since yodas life span was obviously extended that a certain knowledge of the force could let you live untilthe end of time but not forever because this would violate the laws of the force.

[bewebste]

The emperor lied to Vader and told him he had killed Padme (well, OK, he kind of did with the whole broken-heart thing, but I think Palpatine was referring to the trachea chokage), so he didn't realize that she had survived to give birth, plus he never knew that she was carrying twins, so even when he found out about the existence of Luke, he had no reason to believe Luke had a sibling.

[Stogieman]

Originally Posted by Severed Hand of Skywalker

Was lukes saber green? Cuz in a new hope I thought it was and Obi says it belonged to Anakin.

Originally Posted by Starman

Blue

You both are right... well at least on the DVD version. When Obi Wan handed over Anakin's lightsaber to Luke it was blue.



But later when he was training on the Millennium Falcon, Luke's lightsaber was green.



All lightsabers were white in the original theatrical release so I guessing the person in charge for adding color was a bit confused.

[nath]

Originally Posted by selowitch

Oh, and also ... are we supposed to believe that when Leia recounts her images of her "real" mother, that she is not recalling Padmé at all, but rather Bail's wife Breha? And that she spent significant time with Darth Vader aboard the Death Star, but didn't spark any kind of recognition in her father? I guess we could buy that.

OFFICER: She'll die before she'll tell you anything!
VADER: Leave that to me.

TARKIN: She lied..... She lied to us!
VADER: I told you should would never consciously betray the rebellion.

Could there be an unacknowledged note of pride in Vader's statements? He also holds her back from assaulting Tarkin when he gives the order to destroy her "home" planet of Alderaan. Is he, on some unconscious level, trying to save her life? And is it something above and beyond his immediate need for her to lead him to Yavin, the location of the Rebel base at that time?

I think you're on to something there. Check out the carbon freezing chamber scene in Empire Strikes Back. When Chewie goes mad and starts throwing stormtroopers around the place, Boba Fett aims his rifle and has a clear shot (Chewie, unlike Han, is clearly deemed expendable). Vader grabs the rifle and pushes it down, off target. Leia gives him a very funny look when he does that.

[Big Mac]

Originally Posted by Stogieman

You both are right... well at least on the DVD version. When Obi Wan handed over Anakin's lightsaber to Luke it was blue.

But later when he was training on the Millennium Falcon, Luke's lightsaber was green.

All lightsabers were white in the original theatrical release so I guessing the person in charge for adding color was a bit confused.

You're saying that ALL light sabers were white in the theatrical release of ANH? Not even red sith sabers? Are you certain? I thought Luke had his white training saber on the Falcon, but it does change from green to white the third time we see it, at least on the DVD SE. I would have thought this was an SE goof, but perhaps it's been screwed up longer than that. (White is the trainee's color; among the sources that confirm that fact is Skittle's Hunt for Grievous Game that gives you a white saber when you code is a dud. (I want a Star Wars iPod!)

Originally Posted by nath

I think you're on to something there. Check out the carbon freezing chamber scene in Empire Strikes Back. When Chewie goes mad and starts throwing stormtroopers around the place, Boba Fett aims his rifle and has a clear shot (Chewie, unlike Han, is clearly deemed expendable). Vader grabs the rifle and pushes it down, off target. Leia gives him a very funny look when he does that.

Yeah, Vader definitely does protect both Leia and Chewie, which is pretty inexplicable, especially considering the horrific deeds of the Episode III Vader. . .

[Zimphire]

Originally Posted by selowitch

If you're going to hide an infant boy from his clairvoyant psycho Sith daddy (Vader) and his equally determined and evil master (Palpatine), why hide him on the planet of Vader's birth, give him the surname "Skywalker", and place him with Vader's stepbrother and his wife a short distance from Obi-Wan's oh-so-secret hiding place on the edge of the Dune Sea? Luke's grandmother is buried there, for crying out loud! Don't you think it's the first place the Empire would come looking, Death Star plans and wayward droids nothwithstanding?

#1 Vader thought the baby was dead too. If you see her funeral, she looks pregnant.

Vader didn't even know he had offspring until he felt a tremor in the force when luke started his training. That is why he never knew about the sister till Luke gave her up.

Could there be an unacknowledged note of pride in Vader's statements? He also holds her back from assaulting Tarkin when he gives the order to destroy her "home" planet of Alderaan. Is he, on some unconscious level, trying to save her life? And is it something above and beyond his immediate need for her to lead him to Yavin, the location of the Rebel base at that time?

I doubt he even knew who she was as far as being his daughter.

[Zimphire]

Originally Posted by Big Mac

Yeah, Vader definitely does protect both Leia and Chewie, which is pretty inexplicable, especially considering the horrific deeds of the Episode III Vader. . .

Yes, those two were his bait for Luke. He didn't want them dead.

Just like people who take hostages don't want them dead before they get what they want.

[pathogen]

Originally Posted by Eriamjh

Anakin seeing Padme die in the future was ironically the future he was about to set in motion. He should have stayed in bed.

He couldn't, or it wouldn't have been Tragedy*.

*use of capital T denotes that I am referring to the classical rules of tragedy, and not the Eye Witness News Team Live at 6 version of tragedy, which frequently involves car crashes or rats seen in restaurant kitchens.

[pathogen]

Follow up: new question -

Why did Yoda say he would miss Chewbacca? What scene was cut that had Yoda and Chewie bonding?

[starman]

Originally Posted by nath

I think you're on to something there. Check out the carbon freezing chamber scene in Empire Strikes Back. When Chewie goes mad and starts throwing stormtroopers around the place, Boba Fett aims his rifle and has a clear shot (Chewie, unlike Han, is clearly deemed expendable). Vader grabs the rifle and pushes it down, off target. Leia gives him a very funny look when he does that.

You people are looking WAY too much into this.

Mike

[starman]

Originally Posted by Zimphire

Yes, those two were his bait for Luke. He didn't want them dead.

Just like people who take hostages don't want them dead before they get what they want.

Exactly.

Mike

[budster101]

Originally Posted by pathogen

Follow up: new question -

Why did Yoda say he would miss Chewbacca? What scene was cut that had Yoda and Chewie bonding?

Chewi was one of the representatives of the the Nation of Wookis, and friend. It was supposed to be understood. (I think) Yoda was going into hiding until ROTJ, so in fact his friend would not be able to follow.

[nath]

Originally Posted by Zimphire

Yes, those two were his bait for Luke. He didn't want them dead.

Just like people who take hostages don't want them dead before they get what they want.

Seriously, watch that scene again. There's a very odd moment of eye contact between Vader and Leia. I see what you're getting at, but Vader already knows Luke is on his way at this point. Hence 'take the Princess and the Wookie to my ship'. There's no need to spare Chewbacca, and Vader is at his most malevolent at this point.

[Big Mac]

When I said that Vader protected both Leia and Chewie, I was only referring to the carbon freeze scene in regard to Chewie. Regarding Leia, I was acknowledging the earlier comment on Vader's "protection" of Leia on the Death Star.

Originally Posted by budster101

Chewi was one of the representatives of the the Nation of Wookis, and friend. It was supposed to be understood. (I think) Yoda was going into hiding until ROTJ, so in fact his friend would not be able to follow.

Right, Yoda stated he had good relations with the Wookies, and we may infer that he had previously met Chewie. However, Yoda did not determine that exile would be his fate until he failed to kill the emperor, so I don't think that's what he meant when said he would miss them. I think he likely expected them not to survive.

[itistoday]

You know, about the only character I remotely liked out of the first 3 episodes was jar jar binks. All the other characters were hollow trash.

[budster101]

Dude, don't even joke about that. I see red when I even think about how stupid and idiotic placing that Marketing Character was. What a sellout Lucas has become...

[Randman]

For a sellout, you seem awfully interested in the movie bud.

Lavar, congrats on going green.

[itistoday]

Yeah, he was pretty stupid. But seriously though, most of the other characters were pretty bad too. Especially the latest rendition of anakin. Personally I liked episode I better than II and III (out of the first 3 episodes). I think it was truer to the original star wars films than the others. If I had to pick a favorite character out of the new movies, I'd pick that fat flying mechanic from the first episode that owned anakin.

[Zimphire]

Originally Posted by pathogen

Follow up: new question -

Why did Yoda say he would miss Chewbacca? What scene was cut that had Yoda and Chewie bonding?

Maybe in the past.

You know, they are both really old. And Yoda did say he had connections or friends there.

[Zimphire]

Originally Posted by nath

Seriously, watch that scene again. There's a very odd moment of eye contact between Vader and Leia. I see what you're getting at, but Vader already knows Luke is on his way at this point. Hence 'take the Princess and the Wookie to my ship'. There's no need to spare Chewbacca, and Vader is at his most malevolent at this point.

Other than maybe get info from them, and hold them hostage from the rebellion.

[Zimphire]

Easter Eggs.

http://www.starwars.com/episode-iii/...ion/f20050526/

[budster101]

Originally Posted by Randman

For a sellout, you seem awfully interested in the movie bud.

Lavar, congrats on going green.

Edited by personal request:

Randman is now on ignore.

[starman]

Originally Posted by nath

Seriously, watch that scene again. There's a very odd moment of eye contact between Vader and Leia. I see what you're getting at, but Vader already knows Luke is on his way at this point. Hence 'take the Princess and the Wookie to my ship'. There's no need to spare Chewbacca, and Vader is at his most malevolent at this point.

Gee, you don't think he'd want to ask them something like, oh, uh, WHERE THE REBELS ARE?

Mike

[Randman]

Budster, if you have a problem, either pm and we discuss it like adults. Or put me on your ignore list. Either way, your post, even with the cute spelling tricks is out of line.