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dunkie · Jul 7, 2003, 09:40 PM

I read with great enthusiasm many of the posts here regarding Panther. The user switching and expos� were must haves for me but when I started reading many users impressed with the speed - I just had to have it. Yes I pirated it, if it was available for purchase I would have bought it but it wasn't. Like the odd song that I download, I am not ripping off any artist - I stopped buying music years ago and thus they are not lossing anything.

Anyways, after two days now I am yet to be impressed with the speed vs Jag on my iMac FP stock 256 ram. I have just ordered 512mb more ram and that will speed it up. I have found it particularly less responsive with multi-users active causing long delays of the 10.0 spinning cursor days. The multi user switching is slower than what I would like but that could have something to do with the memory. Is it just me?

alpha rays max · Jul 7, 2003, 09:45 PM

Firstly, there has been some discussion on these boards about using the fast user switching and slowdowns. In particular, it seems that if a user has a screensaver set and it comes on while you've switched to another user, this will tend to slow the system down. Do a search for this topic and you'll probably find more information, if you think it might apply to your situation.

Secondly, I take no particular stand on pirating Panther, however do realise that this is very much a PREVIEW RELEASE, hence it will not be of the quality one would expect from a finished product. I'm sure you realise this, however this is exactly one of the reasons people are against the pirating of non-public betas - it can create a false impression of a final product which does not yet exist if too many people start saying this and that about it. I guess this can go both ways - cool features vs. bugs - but still...

clarkgoble · Jul 8, 2003, 12:25 AM

Um 256K? Damn. I'd hate to run OSX with less than 3/4 of a Gig. When you consider that Panther is unoptimized I'm surprised you could run it in 256k!

Spliff · Jul 8, 2003, 12:30 AM

I have an iMac 600 CDRW with 512 MB of RAM. Panther runs at roughly the same speed as Jaguar on my system with one exception: application launching. Applications launch way faster (2-3x) faster in Panther in my system.

Just to be sure, I did a fresh install of Jaguar on a separate partition and application launches were still noticeably slower as compared to Panther.

Eyenovation · Jul 8, 2003, 01:19 AM

Where can I get a 'preview' copy.
This is NOT piracy in my opinion -
Apple could use as many opinions as possible on this.

Hell, even make it time out in 30 days, i don't care. I Just want to try it and perhaps do some bug hunting.

Nebrie · Jul 8, 2003, 02:33 AM

Originally posted by Eyenovation:
Where can I get a 'preview' copy.
This is NOT piracy in my opinion -
Apple could use as many opinions as possible on this.

Hell, even make it time out in 30 days, i don't care. I Just want to try it and perhaps do some bug hunting.

Please shut up. This topic has been talked about to death repeatedly. We don't need another whine-fest about what you "think" the law is.

Eyenovation · Jul 8, 2003, 03:12 AM

Woah bro. Chill out.
I didn't mean anything by it; honest.
As you can probably tell by my post count, I'm relatively new to the forums, and VERY new to Mac.

I'm sorry if I managed to tread into 'dangerous' waters, but there's no reason to be short or angry.

A simple:

"We'd appreciate if you did not bring up that topic" wil do just fine.

DeathMan · Jul 8, 2003, 03:26 AM

Originally posted by Eyenovation:
Woah bro. Chill out.
I didn't mean anything by it; honest.
As you can probably tell by my post count, I'm relatively new to the forums, and VERY new to Mac.

I'm sorry if I managed to tread into 'dangerous' waters, but there's no reason to be short or angry.

A simple:

"We'd appreciate if you did not bring up that topic" wil do just fine.

Hey, that was a really adult response. We don't get those very often around here, so I felt obliged to say hi, and thanks.

Pirating, or anything that could really be construed as pirating is really taboo around here. I'm glad it is, too, because it would be tempting to not just follow links or download this and that, and never pay for software.

So, I'd probably stay away from publicly posting requests for any software that isn't legally obtainable, or posting any intent to obtain software illegally.

And to dunkie:
Whether the artist loses a sale or gains a sale has nothing to do with the law. According to the law, you are stealing. Downloading music with the intent to purchase, or even to save money because you're sooo poor, is illegal. Don't say you're not stealing when you are. You insult those that don't steal.

Chuckit · Jul 8, 2003, 03:41 AM

Originally posted by clarkgoble:
Um 256K? Damn. I'd hate to run OSX with less than 3/4 of a Gig. When you consider that Panther is unoptimized I'm surprised you could run it in 256k!

Heck, I can't even run TextEdit with less than 1 MB.

Eyenovation · Jul 8, 2003, 03:46 AM

Thanks for the kind explanation. This is probably where I have misunderstood the nature of Panther. It was my understanding (or perhaps misunderstanding), that Apple gave the Developers a copy of Panther to basically 'bug hunt' in preperation for the final release this year.

I wasn't under the impression it was a working version in the sense you could actually use it as a functioning OS indefinitely. The developers WILL still have to upgrade, no?

My requests were such that I thought it would be fun to possibly contribute in the development. I fully intend to buy the software, hence my thoughts of it not being piracy.

I wouldn't want a beta copy when I could have the full working version.

clarkgoble · Jul 8, 2003, 04:47 AM

Panther DP1 is not designed for a "bug hunt." Apple has beta testers for that. It is instead for developers to test their code on to try and get it ready for Panther. (i.e. see where it may have problems or to start taking advantages of new library functions that Apple may have added)

Almost certainly there is a lot of stuff unfinished and huge sections unadded. But it is oriented towards developers.

Catfish_Man · Jul 8, 2003, 04:49 AM

Originally posted by Eyenovation:
Thanks for the kind explanation. This is probably where I have misunderstood the nature of Panther. It was my understanding (or perhaps misunderstanding), that Apple gave the Developers a copy of Panther to basically 'bug hunt' in preperation for the final release this year.

I wasn't under the impression it was a working version in the sense you could actually use it as a functioning OS indefinitely. The developers WILL still have to upgrade, no?

My requests were such that I thought it would be fun to possibly contribute in the development. I fully intend to buy the software, hence my thoughts of it not being piracy.

I wouldn't want a beta copy when I could have the full working version.

Yeah, they gave the developers a copy. Unfortunately, that only applies to people who a) paid to go to WWDC or b) paid to have a select or premier developer account. I'd like to have a copy too, but I'm stuck on WinXP in a language I don't speak very well instead.

I think the logic was that anyone willing to pay money and travel to SF for a developer conference, or pay money for a developer account, would be able to file much more useful bug reports than your average forum poster. Of course, they lose some great beta testers that way, but they also don't run into all the crazy ones (a recent example I saw was someone trying to get the developers of the Hydra text editor to include an MP3 player in it).

teknologika · Jul 8, 2003, 04:50 AM

Originally posted by Eyenovation:
It was my understanding (or perhaps misunderstanding), that Apple gave the Developers a copy of Panther to basically 'bug hunt' in preperation for the final release this year.

That is exactly what the release is for, but developers BUY their copies via a subscription for $500US per year (minimum), so they can have their own apps bug free when Panther is released.

Eyenovation · Jul 8, 2003, 04:59 AM

That is exactly what the release is for, but developers BUY their copies via a subscription for $500US per year (minimum), so they can have their own apps bug free when Panther is released.

Interesting! You'd think they'd want some casual opinions as well, but it makes sense. So, you have to PAY apple to have a copy of THEIR operating system, so that you as a developer can make programs people can ACTUALLY use the OS they're buying?

That's kind of like making a musical device with no audio files, then making artists pay you to be able to make music that allow people to use your musical device in the first place.

Got it. Thank god I am an Apple stock holder.

Moose · Jul 8, 2003, 08:00 AM

Originally posted by Eyenovation:
Interesting! You'd think they'd want some casual opinions as well, but it makes sense. So, you have to PAY apple to have a copy of THEIR operating system, so that you as a developer can make programs people can ACTUALLY use the OS they're buying?

ADC membership is more than just the seeding program.

JLL · Jul 8, 2003, 08:48 AM

Originally posted by Eyenovation:
Interesting! You'd think they'd want some casual opinions as well, but it makes sense. So, you have to PAY apple to have a copy of THEIR operating system, so that you as a developer can make programs people can ACTUALLY use the OS they're buying?

That's kind of like making a musical device with no audio files, then making artists pay you to be able to make music that allow people to use your musical device in the first place.

You don't have to pay a dime to develop Mac OS X apps, but if you (among other things) want to make sure that your app works perfectly on day one, you'll have to pay for an ADC membership.

osxisfun · Jul 8, 2003, 12:25 PM

>Anyways, after two days now I am yet to be impressed with the speed vs Jag on my iMac FP stock 256 ram. I

Looks like the gods didn't like you stealing so they punished you with a slower version of panther.

Did you ever think that the pirated copy you downloaded was a different rev. or a debug rev or had been hacked with some virus or other watcher program?

Get back to us when you _buy_ a shipping 1.0 copy of Panther...

ryju · Jul 8, 2003, 01:05 PM

Originally posted by osxisfun:
>Anyways, after two days now I am yet to be impressed with the speed vs Jag on my iMac FP stock 256 ram. I

Looks like the gods didn't like you stealing so they punished you with a slower version of panther.

Did you ever think that the pirated copy you downloaded was a different rev. or a debug rev or had been hacked with some virus or other watcher program?

Get back to us when you _buy_ a shipping 1.0 copy of Panther...

Like you even know what you're talking about.
Maybe it's the way he installed it. He didn't buy it, so give him a break already.

osxisfun · Jul 8, 2003, 01:21 PM

and my suggestions are not Valid?

Could any of those things i mentioned be the cause of slowdown?

Answer: Yes

Could it be the way he installed his copy?

Answer: Yes

So i don't really see your point.

That's right, he didn't buy it. He pirated it. And when you pirate something from warez sites you do you know exactly what you are getting?

Answer: A very big "No".

MojoRising022 · Jul 8, 2003, 02:45 PM

Does anyone recall the difference in feature set of Jaguar that was initially previewed last year and its final release in August? Were features added or only refined?

The bigger question is, based on 10.1 and 10.2 pre-releases, what type of difference can we expect in the 10.3 final from what we see now?

SomeToast · Jul 8, 2003, 03:21 PM

Originally posted by dunkie:
Like the odd song that I download, I am not ripping off any artist - I stopped buying music years ago and thus they are not lossing anything.

One of the oldest justifications for music piracy coupled with a new entry for the lose/loose confusion books. I'm so happy, I could pee.

DBvader · Jul 8, 2003, 04:26 PM

there were a lot of problems when i was messing around with the panther preview. it didnt seem much faster at all than jaguar on my Dual 867/1 GB RAM.

...i didnt think much about it, considering how young the OS is. im sure when its done, it will knock my sox off.

cschmelz · 08:03 PM

Originally posted by Eyenovation:
Where can I get a 'preview' copy.
This is NOT piracy in my opinion -
Apple could use as many opinions as possible on this.

Hell, even make it time out in 30 days, i don't care. I Just want to try it and perhaps do some bug hunting.

One word

No Links to piracy.... READ before you post...