[besson3c]

Originally Posted by Dakar V 

Your suggestion would be more akin to building your own vehicles for the fleet.

I disagree. Invest in somebody to build the software or configure your machines, your backup system, fine, but getting a PC up and running and having a spare to replace it in the event of failure, and learning enough so that you can restore from backup yourself is just not that hard.

We're talking just the hardware here, right?

[Dakar V]

Originally Posted by besson3c 

I disagree.

[Laminar]

Originally Posted by besson3c 

and learning enough so that you can restore from backup yourself is just not that hard.

Proof that you're almost completely detached from most people.

[besson3c]

Laminar: no detachment. I realize that people make dumb decisions, and that many don't have good backup systems or ones that are easy to recover from, but that doesn't preclude the possibility of hiring somebody to create you a good backup system and documenting the hell out of it. If you can get a backup restore down to step by step instructions that people can brainlessly follow, this is also low dangling fruit.

[Chuckit]

Originally Posted by Dakar V 

Your suggestion would be more akin to building your own vehicles for the fleet.

If you can build a car over your lunch break, sure.

[Laminar]

Originally Posted by besson3c 

Laminar: no detachment. I realize that people make dumb decisions, and that many don't have good backup systems or ones that are easy to recover from, but that doesn't preclude the possibility of hiring somebody to create you a good backup system and documenting the hell out of it. If you can get a backup restore down to step by step instructions that people can brainlessly follow, this is also low dangling fruit.

That's not what I'm talking about. Building a computer seems like a piece of cake to you because you have been and are constantly surrounded by that world. Computers are, to 95% of people out there, black boxes, the insides of which are a mystery. Most are vaguely familiar with "memory" (there's two kinds? I thought I had a lot!), processors, etc., but to have someone with little to no computer knowledge get to a point where he or she could match a motherboard to a processor, RAM, hard drive, optical drive, case, power supply would not take an insignificant amount of time - surely time that could be better spent elsewhere, especially if he or she is trying to get a new company off the ground.

[Dakar V]

Originally Posted by Chuckit 

If you can build a car over your lunch break, sure.

You will pay for this grave insult.

[besson3c]

Laminar: it depends on the personality and general tech proficiency of the person. To some technophobes this would be way too overwhelming, but I also know plenty of business owners with a reasonable amount of get-by savvyness that I'm sure could learn doing this, especially if it were taught to them.

I will take back what I said originally and say that if you are generally *reasonably* comfortable with technology, building your own PCs for your company is not out of the realm of practicality.

I guess it all depends on who you have on hand.

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by turtle777 

It's clear to me from many comments that many people here have no clue what running a business is like.

A few years back I acquired a local company of less than five staff. The main competitor to this company had around 40 staff. I guess he was spending money on Dell cover plans, snazzy office space and accountants, because little old me with my home-built machines, crappy office furniture and the ability to read a tax code slaughtered him on product price, took all his customers and made him bankrupt.

If a business owner can't be bothered to figure out how every part of their business works and thus don't know whether the people they hire are doing a good job or where they can make savings, then they'd better pray that their competitors aren't acquired by someone who can be bothered to learn such things.

Now, I'm not talking about building your own vans or stripping the engine down every three weeks. But if you haven't got a rough idea of how a vehicle works, how do you know that the garage you outsourced the servicing to isn't charging you $1,000 for a $20 job? No wonder your economy is buggered.

If you don't know anything about computers, how do you even begin to start interviewing an IT guy when you need one? I mean, newsflash, lots of people lie through their teeth on their resume and make out they can do things which they can't. If you know nothing yourself, how do you know whether they're BSing?

Knowledge is power. Specialisation is for insects.

[Laminar]

Originally Posted by besson3c 

Laminar: it depends on the personality and general tech proficiency of the person. To some technophobes this would be way too overwhelming, but I also know plenty of business owners with a reasonable amount of get-by savvyness that I'm sure could learn doing this, especially if it were taught to them.

I will take back what I said originally and say that if you are generally *reasonably* comfortable with technology, building your own PCs for your company is not out of the realm of practicality.

I guess it all depends on who you have on hand.

The first time I built a computer, I spent hours and hours - at least three or four days at work - researching everything I could find, scoping parts at NewEgg, figuring out what was best for my needs, which processors are rated well, which technologies were on their way out and their way in. I had to decide if I going with SATA was worth the extra cost, if, based on my usage, going with a faster RAM would be useful, etc. etc. etc.. When you can pick up a Dell with a warranty for $400, why bother?

[jokell82]

Originally Posted by Doofy 

A few years back I acquired a local company of less than five staff. The main competitor to this company had around 40 staff. I guess he was spending money on Dell cover plans, snazzy office space and accountants, because little old me with my home-built machines, crappy office furniture and the ability to read a tax code slaughtered him on product price, took all his customers and made him bankrupt.

If a business owner can't be bothered to figure out how every part of their business works and thus don't know whether the people they hire are doing a good job or where they can make savings, then they'd better pray that their competitors aren't acquired by someone who can be bothered to learn such things.

Now, I'm not talking about building your own vans or stripping the engine down every three weeks. But if you haven't got a rough idea of how a vehicle works, how do you know that the garage you outsourced the servicing to isn't charging you $1,000 for a $20 job? No wonder your economy is buggered.

If you don't know anything about computers, how do you even begin to start interviewing an IT guy when you need one? I mean, newsflash, lots of people lie through their teeth on their resume and make out they can do things which they can't. If you know nothing yourself, how do you know whether they're BSing?

Knowledge is power. Specialisation is for insects.

If the majority of your competition's costs were tied up in computers and office furniture then they had no business sense in the first place.

[Laminar]

Originally Posted by Doofy 

I'm done here. In future I'll know better than to offer small business advice to anyone when there's a university administrator handy who can perform that task much better than I.

Originally Posted by Doofy 

So, screw it, I'll keep my gob shut until someone pays me to open it.

Who forked over the cash?

Originally Posted by Doofy 

A few years back I acquired a local company of less than five staff. The main competitor to this company had around 40 staff. I guess he was spending money on Dell cover plans, snazzy office space and accountants, because little old me with my home-built machines, crappy office furniture and the ability to read a tax code slaughtered him on product price, took all his customers and made him bankrupt.

If a business owner can't be bothered to figure out how every part of their business works and thus don't know whether the people they hire are doing a good job or where they can make savings, then they'd better pray that their competitors aren't acquired by someone who can be bothered to learn such things.

Now, I'm not talking about building your own vans or stripping the engine down every three weeks. But if you haven't got a rough idea of how a vehicle works, how do you know that the garage you outsourced the servicing to isn't charging you $1,000 for a $20 job? No wonder your economy is buggered.

If you don't know anything about computers, how do you even begin to start interviewing an IT guy when you need one? I mean, newsflash, lots of people lie through their teeth on their resume and make out they can do things which they can't. If you know nothing yourself, how do you know whether they're BSing?

Knowledge is power. Specialisation is for insects.

[besson3c]

jokell: let's not get into nitpicking very small specifics, we are talking very generally here.

[besson3c]

Doofy, we make a good team. The only question is should we call ourselves Doofson3c, or Bessoofy3c?

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by Laminar 

Who forked over the cash?

Your mom.

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by jokell82 

If the majority of your competition's costs were tied up in computers and office furniture then they had no business sense in the first place.

Most people don't. Most small companies are on auto-pilot, hanging by a thread.

[Arty50]

Actually both arguments have merit. The big question is does the business owner have time to do their own IT work. If so, then be my guest. Save money, learn how things work, etc. But if there's no time for this stuff, then it's much better to farm it out or hire an IT professional to take care of it for you. Every business is different and has vastly different time requirements for its owners and employees. So what works great for business A might be a terrible idea for business B and vice versa.

From the limited information here, I'd guess she'll want to farm it out. But ultimately that's her call.

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by Laminar 

The first time I built a computer, I spent hours and hours - at least three or four days at work - researching everything I could find, scoping parts at NewEgg, figuring out what was best for my needs, which processors are rated well, which technologies were on their way out and their way in. I had to decide if I going with SATA was worth the extra cost, if, based on my usage, going with a faster RAM would be useful, etc. etc. etc.. When you can pick up a Dell with a warranty for $400, why bother?

It ain't just about the computer. Whether you know it or not, while you were doing that you were honing your research skills... ...which hones you into a better decision-maker. Wax on, wax off.

[Chuckit]

Originally Posted by jokell82 

If the majority of your competition's costs were tied up in computers and office furniture then they had no business sense in the first place.

You mean they might have been ignorant about how major parts of their business worked?

[Laminar]

Originally Posted by Arty50 

Actually both arguments have merit.

NO! There is ONE BEST WAY to do anything!

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by besson3c 

Doofy, we make a good team. The only question is should we call ourselves Doofson3c, or Bessoofy3c?

Buffoon3c ?

-t

[CRASH HARDDRIVE]

Originally Posted by Arty50 

The big question is does the business owner have time to do their own IT work.

My take is, if they do, they probably don't have enough actual business to justify starting the small business in the first place.

I'm a huge fan of build-it-yourself -heck, even for Macs, let alone office PCs. But one has to recognize that its not always easy or even the slightest bit interesting for everyone. If you're focused on whatever your main business is to the point of being crazy-busy for 16+ hours a day like many of the SBOs I know, focusing on the mundane like building your own office equipment, is silly.

Sure, it's easy to snap some parts together, but it IS actually time consuming when you're doing more than 1. Then you've got the OS (legit for each seat if you've got any brains) drivers and (legit) software to install, then networking, setting up printers, shares, backup, etc. Even for a computer expert, that's all going to be pretty time consuming for 5 machines. To expect a noob to do it, when they should be concentrating on their actual business is a bit stupid.

Now, I say this as someone who has built tons of computers for my own small business, and for others. It's easy for people like us on this site, computers tend to be our hobbies and interests. For many other people, it may as well be expecting them to knit their own work clothes.

Trying to wear too many hats and not knowing how to designate authority is just a big a pitfall in small business as not having well-rounded knowledge of everything involved in the business. One doesn't need to build the office equipment to have a good knowledge of it- in fact, I'd say knowing the needed software inside and out is vastly more important.

[besson3c]

Taking an insulting b word and tacking on 3c to the end, nicely done! You could have also went with

bastard3c
bozo3c
bitch3c
bubba3c
boob3c
birdface3c
birdbrain3c
bigstupid3c
bigstupidbirdface3c
bigstupidbirdbrain3c
bigstupidbirdbitch3c
bigstupidbitchboob3c

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by besson3c 

Taking an insulting b word and tacking on 3c to the end, nicely done! You could have also went with

Huh ?

I did what you did, used the letters of your's and Doofy's names.
I admit, I got creative on the "u".

-t

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by CRASH HARDDRIVE 

My take is, if they do, they probably don't have enough actual business to justify starting the small business in the first place.

You can't take on business if you don't have a sellible product, it takes time to formulate the business and build it from the ground up. You take care of these sorts of things while you are building, not while you are already up and running and so busy that you can't spare the time.

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by Laminar 

The first time I built a computer, I spent hours and hours - at least three or four days at work - researching everything I could find, scoping parts at NewEgg, figuring out what was best for my needs, which processors are rated well, which technologies were on their way out and their way in. I had to decide if I going with SATA was worth the extra cost, if, based on my usage, going with a faster RAM would be useful, etc. etc. etc.. When you can pick up a Dell with a warranty for $400, why bother?

Well, you were obviously quite thorough and you must have had specific computing needs. To build a basic computer drone that will handle the bulk of office tasks, writing email, documents, etc. it is pretty easy to get a barebones PC, throw in some RAM, a hard drive, some sort of processor and video card and call it a day.

I'm not saying that everybody should do this, but it doesn't have to be as hard as your experience was either.

[CRASH HARDDRIVE]

Originally Posted by besson3c 

You can't take on business if you don't have a sellible product, it takes time to formulate the business and build it from the ground up. You take care of these sorts of things while you are building, not while you are already up and running and so busy that you can't spare the time.

The point is, many people are going to be just as busy with other tasks while setting up the business, as they later will be with the day to day running of it. Hell, probably even busier. There's only so many hours in the day, and so much time to get up and running, securing clients, suppliers, staff, etc. etc.

If becoming a PC builder and IT person isn't high on the priority list during that time (which is pretty easy to see won't be for all that many people) then why not leave it at that? Get a few cheap Dells and focus time and effort on other things.

[Phileas]

Originally Posted by CRASH HARDDRIVE 

Get a few cheap Dells and focus time and effort on other things.

Like building the business for example. There are many things that need doing when starting up a business, building PCs is not one of them.

My advice to anybody starting up a business is to hire trusted experts. A good accountant will save you money. A good bookkeeper will save you money. A good lawyer will make sure that your company is set up correctly. A good insurance broker will make sure that you're covered should the **** hit the fan. I have all of the above and I consider their advice fundamental to the success of our business.

Our business is set up with multiple levels of backup, so should a machine die, it takes about 30 minutes to have a replacement up and running.

Sure, you could go ahead and learn all of these skills yourself - by the time you're finished you'll be bankrupt of course, but hey, you'll know how to build a PC.

[besson3c]

Phileas: I think we are all on different pages as to what a small business is, for starters. There are all sorts of businesses, and not all of them (e.g. working freelance) require dedicated lawyers and accountants and all that.

I think the sensible conclusion here is that for *some* people building PCs is not a bad idea, for others it is.

[Phileas]

A small business is typically defined, in North America, as a business that employs between 2 and 100 people. I co-own two small businesses with two different partners. Working freelance is not the same as starting a (small) business and even as a freelancer you will need a good accountant to succeed.

Any other advice is not only misleading, it is actually damaging.

[Railroader]

My take on the business I had that succeeded the most:

1. Do what you do best, create a sellable product that you can make people buy.
2. Find the areas in your business where your time is most efficiently spent and outsource the rest.

IF your time is better spent honing out the product, and you can add value to the product, then in dealing with areas of the business that you do not specialize in you should hire or outsource for it.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
That's free advice by the way. You want anything more specific and you'll have to pay me.

[besson3c]

Phileas: what about a business that subcontracts work rather than retains employees? That is not considered a small business?

[Rumor]

To the OP, you could try sending a PM to Captain Obvious (a member of these baords). IIRC, he lives in the Chicago area and may be able to point you in the right direction.

[CRASH HARDDRIVE]

I somehow have the sneakingest suspicion that in this current business climate it won't be all that difficult to find someone for hire that can set up a few office comps and a small network. Just a hunch.

[colourfastt]

Originally Posted by doofy 

specialisation is for insects.

+1000

[Phileas]

Originally Posted by Railroader 

2. Find the areas in your business where your time is most efficiently spent and outsource the rest.

IF your time is better spent honing out the product, and you can add value to the product, then in dealing with areas of the business that you do not specialize in you should hire or outsource for it.

I am finding myself in agreement with an ex-GM employee...

[Phileas]

Originally Posted by Doofy 

How do you know which "expert" to hire if you haven't got a clue about the task which you're hiring them for? Isn't that just begging for the "your carburettor is ill too, Miss" treatment?

If this argument had merit, why on earth would anybody hire you? Isn't that just begging for the "that remix is a bit weak on the highs, we need to do it again" treatment?

You've got to learn to trust the right people, both the people you employ and the people you hire, otherwise you will never able to grow any business.

[shifuimam]

Originally Posted by Phileas 

If this argument had merit, why on earth would anybody hire you? Isn't that just begging for the "that remix is a bit weak on the highs, we need to do it again" treatment?

You've got to learn to trust the right people, both the people you employ and the people you hire, otherwise you will never able to grow any business.

I think that this is also good defense for not going with a local outfit that might be more likely to scam you, since they see you as computer-retarded. If you just need basic machines, a $250 Vostro from Dell (or whatever HP has that's similar, etc.) is going to be dirt-cheap and do what you want, along with providing the support you need.

Hell, you can even get scammed when you're building your own machine - go to Fry's (or log on to a forum or an IRC channel) and start asking questions about components, and of course they're going to convince you that an Intel i7 or a Core2Duo is critical, when in reality your secretary would be just fine with a dual-core Pentium or a low-end AMD processor. The time it would take to research the specs on these things (and the price differences can be rather large in some cases) isn't really worth the effort when you're busy doing more important things, like becoming an LLC or small business, getting your tax stuff figured out, finding a location for your business, etc.

[King Bob On The Cob]

Go with Dell over HP. The reason I'm saying this is not that they're using better components or anything, but from what I've noticed, you'll be forced to sit on the phone longer with HP support when something goes wrong. with Dell you get the hardware diagnostic utilities, and you can just give them the service tag, and the error code from diagnostics and for the most part, the next day, a tech will be out to fix any and all problems you have. HP will require you to jump through some extra hoops to verify what part is broken.

[zerostar]

I recommend DELL. Thats is who we use, we have ONE contact. On-site repairs within 2-hours (in most cases) and a discount that can't be beat. I have had a few drives die and they have sent them same-day in one case and next day in the other (both were non-critical as it was a backup DC server.

[Railroader]

Originally Posted by Phileas 

I am finding myself in agreement with an ex-GM employee...

There's a reason I don't work for them anymore. Even I could manage a business better than the GM administration. They have GREAT laborers, but their management is abysmal.

[ghporter]

Originally Posted by Railroader 

There's a reason I don't work for them anymore. Even I could manage a business better than the GM administration. They have GREAT laborers, but their management is abysmal.

Lately I think my cat could do a better job than one of those stuffed suits at GM. Please note that I grew up in a town in easy commuting distance from something like 5 auto plants and one of them was BICYCLING distance from home - I'm not an auto industry hater, just a "moron in a suit" hater.