[ort888]

Originally Posted by turtle777 

So, the Touchpad will become the nerd platform for folks that like to fiddle with OS installs.
Awesome.

The rest of the world will just use what works out of the box.

-t

Until the hardware grows obsolete a year from now.

[Spheric Harlot]

Originally Posted by ort888 

Until the hardware grows obsolete a year from now.last spring.

Fixed.

[imitchellg5]

What is obsolete about it right now? It's the fastest processor in a tablet at the moment with the best (if not second-best) GPU.

[Shaddim]

Originally Posted by imitchellg5 

What is obsolete about it right now? It's the fastest processor in a tablet at the moment with the best (if not second-best) GPU.

That's true. It's not a bad piece of hardware, and given the ingenuity (and tenacity) of the online rooting community it should be a solid Android tablet for quite some time.

[imitchellg5]

There are people at xda who think it will be able to run Windows 8 as well, which has built in ARM support.

[freudling]

The snapdragon chip on these benchmarks blows Apple's silicon out of the water. Of course real world it's also all about the software too. Apple's got a good thing going with the performance of iOS.

Looking at these benchmarks though, it's no surprise to me that with the speed up patches in webOS, that the TouchPad screams. These patches essentially shut down background logging. Apparentely webOS is in debug mode all the time. It logs a ton of stuff and it's overkill. By shutting a lot of this down the system gets significantly sped up.

It's really hard to believe these benchmarks:

AnandTech - Dual Core Snapdragon GPU Performance Explored - 1.5 GHz MSM8660 and Adreno 220 Benchmarks

[Spheric Harlot]

Originally Posted by imitchellg5 

What is obsolete about it right now? It's the fastest processor in a tablet at the moment with the best (if not second-best) GPU.

Sorry, I was going by P's post here:
http://forums.macnn.com/103/ipod-iph...s/#post4104684

Originally Posted by freudling 

The snapdragon chip on these benchmarks blows Apple's silicon out of the water. Of course real world it's also all about the software too. Apple's got a good thing going with the performance of iOS.

Looking at these benchmarks though, it's no surprise to me that with the speed up patches in webOS, that the TouchPad screams. These patches essentially shut down background logging. Apparentely webOS is in debug mode all the time. It logs a ton of stuff and it's overkill. By shutting a lot of this down the system gets significantly sped up.

It's really hard to believe these benchmarks:

AnandTech - Dual Core Snapdragon GPU Performance Explored - 1.5 GHz MSM8660 and Adreno 220 Benchmarks

That link does not include the iPad 2, AFAICS.

[freudling]

Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot 

Sorry, I was going by P's post here:
http://forums.macnn.com/103/ipod-iph...s/#post4104684



That link does not include the iPad 2, AFAICS.

Correct. It's just interesting to see how it completely destroys the iPhone 4. Again this says nothing about real world with webOS. It's just nice to know what I'm holding is some pretty high tech stuff.

I'll report my experiences after I implement the speed ups later today.

[Eug]

webOS to live on... in HP printers.

HP: webOS Still Coming to PCs and Printers, Pre3 Launching - Ina Fried - News - AllThingsD

They're also still pushing the webOS-on-Windows angle, but I think the guy must have been high.

[Kerrigan]

So if I turn off debugging it will be Snappier?

[Big Mac]

I knew it was that damn debug code. They must have not released the final version of the GM with that debug code deactivated!

[-Q-]

You two must still find Carrot Top funny, too.

[freudling]

It's on all webOS devices and has been from the start.. being in debug mode. My understanding is it's excessive.

[Shaddim]

Originally Posted by freudling 

Correct. It's just interesting to see how it completely destroys the iPhone 4.

Massive difference between A4 and A5.

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by freudling 

Correct. It's just interesting to see how it completely destroys the iPhone 4..

How is this at all relevant ?

-t

[Salty]

So what you're saying is, you're happy that a device four times the size that came out a year later is faster than the iPhone 4. Do you also like to see cage matches that pit grown men against small children?

[Spheric Harlot]

Hence my quip about the TouchPad hardware going obsolete last spring.

It's nice that it compares favorably to the 2010 iPad.

I gather that it was already obsoleted by the 2011 iPad before HP even released it.

[freudling]

Originally Posted by Salty 

So what you're saying is, you're happy that a device four times the size that came out a year later is faster than the iPhone 4. Do you also like to see cage matches that pit grown men against small children?

First, the iPhone 4 is Apple's latest smartphone.

Second, the A4 is also the processor in the iPad 1, which is currently still selling, is another comparison. The iPad 1 16 GB is about ~$350 refurbished.

I mention these devices because the TouchPad has to be put in the context of its current selling price of $99 and $149.

The point is that its hardware is not crappy and for these prices it's a decent tablet.

Many people will end up realizing these prices because a lot of retailers have extended the price match/return policy on these. In short, people are just getting refunded the difference and keeping the devices.

Anyway, I've finally got the performance patches installed and over clocked it to 1.7 GHz with the new f15c kernel. I've checked and confirmed it's running 1.7 GHz dual-core.

It helps. The performance overall is close to an iPad 2 now. Certain things are faster as well.

Anybody picking up a TouchPad should install PreWare and supercharge it. The Pre Central forums have all the info you need.

A 2.0 GHz kernel is on the way.

The amount of extra heat and battery drain are virtually 0. Once you take away the background logging, then add the extra clock speeds, it balances out and the extra voltage draw comes out to be hardly anything.

Interestingly enough, the TouchPad 4G is clocked at 1.5 GHz. These chips are thus not really being "over-clocked", just sped up with the capability of going higher.

HP was really conservative.

[Langdon]

Originally Posted by freudling 

I've finally got the performance patches installed and over clocked it to 1.7 GHz with the new f15c kernel. I've checked and confirmed it's running 1.7 GHz dual-core.

Anybody picking up a TouchPad should install PreWare and supercharge it. The Pre Central forums have all the info you need.

The amount of extra heat and battery drain are virtually 0. Once you take away the background logging, then add the extra clock speeds, it balances out and the extra voltage draw comes out to be hardly anything.

Originally Posted by turtle777 

So, the Touchpad will become the nerd platform for folks that like to fiddle with OS installs.
Awesome.

The rest of the world will just use what works out of the box.

[Lateralus]

Why does everybody have to attack people like people freudling and me for trying to enjoy and talk about something that we just bought?

Yeah, it's a discontinued product now, and yes the future of webOS is very much uncertain. Granted, nobody's denying it, so it doesn't need to be retold in every other post made to this thread.

I know it's in the nature of the Lounge to bicker constantly, but can this thread not be for discussion of a product by people who own or are interested in it? There's countless space across this board for threads on the awesomeness of the iOS and iDevices, this doesn't need to be transformed into another.

[Eug]

Heh. What do you expect? If you want to talk about it, fine. However, if some want to try to convince the rest of us that webOS is still viable, then they're gonna get shot down, for obvious reasons given recent events.

[Lateralus]

I'm not trying to convince anybody of anything. I bought the tablet for what it's good for now, without any expectation to run what it may or may not run thanks to hacking one year from now. And I've simply agreed that it's possible webOS may find a consumer application since it's modern enough to offer appeal to anybody that may be seeking to play something other than the Android game.

That's all.

It's a damn nice tablet, webOS is great, both were the victims of half hearted support from HP and now we can wait and see while using devices that are a phenomenal deals for the money regardless of future viability.

This thread should now be about this^

[Eug]

Originally Posted by Lateralus 

I'm not trying to convince anybody of anything.

Well, others are.

And I've simply agreed that it's possible webOS may find a consumer application since it's modern enough to offer appeal to anybody that may be seeking to play something other than the Android game.

Well, I think the point is that most of us now think that's rather unlikely, albeit not totally impossible.

[imitchellg5]

Originally Posted by Lateralus 

Why does everybody have to attack people like people freudling and me for trying to enjoy and talk about something that we just bought?

Yeah, it's a discontinued product now, and yes the future of webOS is very much uncertain. Granted, nobody's denying it, so it doesn't need to be retold in every other post made to this thread.

I know it's in the nature of the Lounge to bicker constantly, but can this thread not be for discussion of a product by people who own or are interested in it? There's countless space across this board for threads on the awesomeness of the iOS and iDevices, this doesn't need to be transformed into another.

They just want to let you know how superior their iPad 2 is, in every way.

[Lateralus]

Originally Posted by Eug 

Well, others are.

Well, I think the point is that most of us now think that's rather unlikely, albeit not totally impossible.

Fair enough. I don't disagree.

My response to this thread has as much to do with the direction it's taken as it does with my frustration in seeing how the Mac user base has become so quickly willing to beat up on something, when for decades it had been that attitude which Mac heads hated in Wintel people.

[Lateralus]

Originally Posted by imitchellg5 

They just want to let you know how superior their iPad 2 is, in every way.

Did you get an order in anywhere?

Anybody else aside from Shaddim get a shipping confirmation?

[imitchellg5]

Originally Posted by Lateralus 

Did you get an order in anywhere?

Anybody else aside from Shaddim get a shipping confirmation?

Nope. Couldn't get it with HP soon enough (or something), and when OnSale sold theirs on Amazon I got one ordered, but their CEO just got on Facebook and said they are canceling any order that hasn't shipped, which mine hasn't. Bummed out.

[Big Mac]

Originally Posted by freudling 

I mention these devices because the TouchPad has to be put in the context of its current selling price of $99 and $149.

It's only been sold at that price because it's defunct and HP blew it out of the channel. I'd like to buy one at that price but I can't - tried when B&N was advertising it but they reneged on the sale. The real market price of the TouchPad is around $300 second hand unless you're really tenacious about finding sales.

[Eug]

A friend got an order confirmation, but when he got to the Future Shop, they said there weren't any.

Future Shop has a crappy internet weborder server. Every year on Boxing Day their website flakes out because of the traffic.

[Lateralus]

Originally Posted by imitchellg5 

...OnSale sold theirs on Amazon I got one ordered, but their CEO just got on Facebook and said they are canceling any order that hasn't shipped, which mine hasn't. Bummed out.

My HP order is stagnant and I placed an order with OnSale as my backup. MacMall still sucks, under any name.

[Langdon]

Originally Posted by Lateralus 

Why does everybody have to attack people like people freudling and me for trying to enjoy and talk about something that we just bought?

Yeah, it's a discontinued product now, and yes the future of webOS is very much uncertain. Granted, nobody's denying it, so it doesn't need to be retold in every other post made to this thread.

I know it's in the nature of the Lounge to bicker constantly, but can this thread not be for discussion of a product by people who own or are interested in it? There's countless space across this board for threads on the awesomeness of the iOS and iDevices, this doesn't need to be transformed into another.

This thread isn't about people enjoying their Touchpad.
The very first line in the opening post set the tone for the discussion. This thread is about how WebOS/Touchpad was supposed to be the first worthy competitor to iOS/iPad.

I took the position that WebOS had potential but it never advanced beyond beta and v.3 was not ready or stable enough to make any market share gains. I said the Veer and Touchpad were aesthetically unpleasant and destined to fail because consumers would not want them. I vehemently felt anyone who thought otherwise was wrong and will continue to tell people who claim that the TP is magical that they are in denial.

I don't really recall promoting iOS. Just that WebOS was going/is a failure

[Lateralus]

The iPad is magical though, right? Amazing what some faux-aluminium will do...

[imitchellg5]

Originally Posted by Langdon 

This thread isn't about people enjoying their Touchpad.
The very first line in the opening post set the tone for the discussion. This thread is about how WebOS/Touchpad was supposed to be the first worthy competitor to iOS/iPad

The context of the discussion had changed from the original topic, as most discussions on these forums (and indeed, within real life) often do.

[Langdon]

Originally Posted by Lateralus 

The iPad is magical though, right? Amazing what some faux-aluminium will do...

I just finished saying I don't recall being a big proponent of iOS (and in the context of this discussion the iPad) in this thread.

I personally don't think tablets have come of age enough for me to get one. Maybe in a year or so they will have advanced and introduced something that I will find valuable enough to replace my laptop. For now my phone and Macbook have more than enough functionality that I don't see a need for a tablet.
As an cell phone's go though the iPhone is a vastly superior product to the Pre, Pixi, and Veer combined. The form factor alone is better than anything that ran WebOS.

Originally Posted by imitchellg5 

The context of the discussion had changed from the original topic, as most discussions on these forums (and indeed, within real life) often do.

Maybe the context has changed for some people but the focus of the discussion hasn't

[Lateralus]

Originally Posted by Langdon 

I just finished saying I don't recall being a big proponent of iOS (and in the context of this discussion the iPad) in this thread.

I personally don't think tablets have come of age enough for me to get one. Maybe in a year or so they will have advanced and introduced something that I will find valuable enough to replace my laptop. For now my phone and Macbook have more than enough functionality that I don't see a need for a tablet.

Wait... So you neither currently own a tablet or have an actual interest in getting one soon? Seems like a waste of time on your part, not to mention a wasting of the discussion by the members who do have an interest in this tablet/OS.

Originally Posted by Langdon 

Maybe the context has changed for some people but the focus of the discussion hasn't

And that's why moderators exist.

[freudling]

I agree with Tool's Lateralus.

If people on here are bickering about webOS, etc. yet they've never used it... don't have an interest in tablets, etc., it's just trollish.

And to second Lateralus's point, I'm not trying to convince people that the TouchPad is for you. I don't give a toss what you like.

I'm pointing out what my actual experience of the device is. You know, since I own one. Since I also own an iPhone and iPad...

Anyway, as one poster just mentioned, even though they're selling at $99, the market is paying $300 at certain sources. So I guess it's actually worth more to people than $99...

I spoke with BestBuy yesterday. HP and BB may battle in court because HP is trying to make BB absorb some of the losses on the fire sale. Because of this issue, I've been told BB and maybe some other retailers are sending back stock to HP. Look to HP.com to order a TP in the coming days.

[freudling]

TouchPad Apps I 've got/like:

-Need for Speed
-Montreal Gazette
-Differences (photo game)
-FaceBook (killer App)
-Draw
-Epicurius (recipes)

Things I love about the TouchPad particularly compared to the iPad:

-It vibrates! I really like this.
-Front facing camera is killer: so much better than the iPad's paltry .3 MP. Skype video calls are crisp and clear to the other end
-Synergy. Account integration is killer. Skype for example. There is no Skype App. It's integrated into webOS. Add your Skype account once and that's it.
-Beats audio. Decent sound from the speakers. Handy when watching videos. No fumbling for headphones or speaker plug as much
-Multitasking. I can actually compare two windows to each other at one time. The cards and stacks are great. And the TP has 1 GB of RAM. I can fling around lots of windows and Apps without any memory problems or slow downs
-The webOS App Store! It's nice.
-The common settings and info window that's always at your fingertips
-The notifications! The way webOS has done it is awesome

These are off the top of my head. Of course There's things I like about iOS/the iPad over webOS/the TP. But there's enough to like about the TP that I'm using it daily. And I enjoy it.

[turtle777]

I think it's pretty hilarious that HP manages to piss off even the newfound TouchPad fans by not being able to deliver the $99 ToucPad to everyone that wants one.

This is one fail after another.

So right now, for most people, IN THEORY, a $99 TouchPad is great. Enjoy the awesome theory.

-t

[Langdon]

Originally Posted by Lateralus 

Wait... So you neither currently own a tablet or have an actual interest in getting one soon? Seems like a waste of time on your part, not to mention a wasting of the discussion by the members who do have an interest in this tablet/OS.

And that's why moderators exist.

If you want to censor the discussion so dissenting opinions aren't expressed I am fairly certain you can do that as a moderator. You wouldn't want members who have been here longer than you wasting other people's time because it goes against your personal opinions on the subject.

Maybe you can start a new thread where only Touchpad owners can participate..... you can use the your serial numbers as identifiers. It will be nifty!

[Kerrigan]

Relax, bro. Take a chill pill.

[Big Mac]

Hostilities even outside of the PWL seem to be chronically high lately.

[ghporter]

Originally Posted by Langdon 

If you want to censor the discussion so dissenting opinions aren't expressed I am fairly certain you can do that as a moderator. You wouldn't want members who have been here longer than you wasting other people's time because it goes against your personal opinions on the subject.

Maybe you can start a new thread where only Touchpad owners can participate..... you can use the your serial numbers as identifiers. It will be nifty!

I do not see "censorship" in anything Lateralus has said. I see something on the order of "I do not see how you have an interest or experience in this matter." And I have to agree. If you do not own a tablet, nor have an interest in getting one, how can you really be in a position to say whether or not they "have come of age yet" or not? So how about it? If you're completely uninterested in tablets, how did you come to the conclusion that they are not "ready?"

[Mrjinglesusa]

Found out about the firesale too late and missed out on getting one at $99. Got an order placed online at ErwinComp that had stock yesterday - no update on shipping status.

If anyone else is looking for one your best bet is HP.com - they are expected to get another shipment anytime.

You can sign up to be notified when they are in stock:

HP TouchPad Tablet | HP� Official Site | U.S.

Also, you can follow BrynaAtHP on Twitter. She's some HP marketing person who said she'll send out a tweet when HP Home gets some in stock. HP Small Business (according to her) is OUT and will NOT be getting any more stock.

[freudling]

Originally Posted by turtle777 

I think it's pretty hilarious that HP manages to piss off even the newfound TouchPad fans by not being able to deliver the $99 ToucPad to everyone that wants one.

This is one fail after another.

So right now, for most people, IN THEORY, a $99 TouchPad is great. Enjoy the awesome theory.

-t

So what you're saying is there's demand for the TP? Right.

[freudling]

Originally Posted by ghporter 

I do not see "censorship" in anything Lateralus has said. I see something on the order of "I do not see how you have an interest or experience in this matter." And I have to agree. If you do not own a tablet, nor have an interest in getting one, how can you really be in a position to say whether or not they "have come of age yet" or not? So how about it? If you're completely uninterested in tablets, how did you come to the conclusion that they are not "ready?"

It's called trolling. That is, people who pontificate just for the sake of doing it. It's rife on MacNN.

[ort888]

Is it trolling?

I think the term gets tossed about to quickly.

Tablets are a hot topic in the industry right now. Just because you don't want one doesn't mean you can't talk about one.

Forums are pretty boring when everyone agrees with everyone else. As long as people aren't losing their cool and getting hostile, I say the more debate the better.

[Spheric Harlot]

Originally Posted by freudling 

So what you're saying is there's demand for the TP? Right.

Not quite. There's demand for a $500 product being sold, at tremendous loss, for $100.

It doesn't take an industry analyst to predict that, regardless of industry.

[The Final Dakar]

I also think a lot of people are taking a flyer on it knowing it may be a flop. Look at this way: You won't buy an iPad for $500, but for you'll try a TouchPad at 20% the price, hoping it'll be at least 20% as good as an iPad. Risk vs. reward.

[Eug]

I just learned what "taking a flyer" means.

Anyways, that seems to be the consensus. Hope it gets the Android love and if not, maybe it will do as a digital picture frame for less than the cost of a digital picture frame. It seems that outside this thread, the people who actually ordered thinking webOS is still alive are rare.

[freudling]

Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot 

Not quite. There's demand for a $500 product being sold, at tremendous loss, for $100.

It doesn't take an industry analyst to predict that, regardless of industry.

There is demand, period. Millions want one. If it was completely useless and horrible, nobody would be interested. Best Buy and FutureShop get calls on it every 30 seconds.

The TP is not the only device to be offered at a doorcrasher price. Yet, it's getting all the sustained interest from consumers. There's signs up all over electronic stores in Vancouver that say "Sorry, sold out of the TouchPad". Even after a manager told people they were out, some 50 people were seen camping out at BesBuy on Cambie for one.

Over 3 million people hammered sickdeals in 24 hours...