[Socially Awkward Solo]

"With the release of Creative Suite 2 (CS2) on Monday, Adobe Systems Inc. will also introduce activation for its entire CS2 product line. Activation is a process the customer must complete sometime during the first 30 days of use in order to verify that the product is using a valid serial number. Adobe says they are not changing the way they do business, rather enforcing the terms of the license agreement, which says the product can be installed on only two machines."

http://www.macworld.com/news/2005/04...src=mwrss-0405

[Randman]

At least it says two machines. One for home, one for work.

[CaptainHaddock]

I've been using paid-for versions of Adobe products since Photoshop 5 and Illustrator 8.

If CS2 does indeed require activation, I'll have to consider either going without or finding a copy that is activation-free. There's no way I'm jumping through hoops each time I get a new machine or something.

[Chuckit]

I'm seriously all for paying for the software you use, but as far as I'm concerned, any company that requires me to call and beg them to activate something I just paid $1,000 for can walk the plank.

This is one of the big reasons I'm such a big supporter of the Mac in the first place. I've been through enough "activation" ******** just trying to help people transfer to a new PC.

Argh.

[Randman]

I think I'm more pained by the US$449 pricetag just to upgrade from CS1.

[Chuckit]

Good point. Ouch.

[iluvmymactoo]

Originally posted by Randman:
I think I'm more pained by the US$449 pricetag just to upgrade from CS1.

Just another way for Adobe to scam more money, why they couldn't release an update version... well they could but there wouldn't be the money in it for them.

The sooner someone comes up with a good Photoshop alternative the better off we'll be.

[CaptainHaddock]

Originally posted by iluvmymactoo:
The sooner someone comes up with a good Photoshop alternative the better off we'll be.

I vote for Omni or Panic to develop one! After all, almost all the filters Photoshop currently does can be handled directly with Tiger's new APIs. Some of Gimp's code could probably be used too. The tough part would be implementing colour management and support for all those file formats (including RAW). Add something cool that Photoshop doesn't have, and you've got a killer app.

I'll bet Omni or Panic could do it inside of a year. I'd be first in line to buy it!

[demograph68]

None of the new features are relevant to me. I personally feel like Adobe is making their software more complicated actually with the way they are trying to bring the apps together into one package. But regarding the activation thing, someone will hopefully create a krack for it.

[demograph68]

4. A response is sent to the user.

If the activation attempt was Internet based, the process is handled automatically. With telephone-based activation, the authentication code is relayed to the user by either a voice response system or an Adobe customer service representative. After receiving the authentication code, the user types it into the required field to complete the activation process. The authentication code then unlocks (activates) the software.

All you need then is the secondary code to activate it. No krack necessary it seems.

[Mediaman_12]

Originally posted by demograph68:
All you need then is the secondary code to activate it. No krack necessary it seems.

The app will 'phone home' to verify the code, if the code has been used before, or is on a blacklist, then no activation.
You could possibly stop it connecting with 'Little Snitch' and make the App think it's not connected to the net.

[Randman]

Of course, you don't need to buy the new version if so adverse to it.

[Mr Heliums]

Originally posted by CaptainHaddock:
I've been using paid-for versions of Adobe products since Photoshop 5 and Illustrator 8.

If CS2 does indeed require activation, I'll have to consider either going without or finding a copy that is activation-free. There's no way I'm jumping through hoops each time I get a new machine or something.

There's no need to jump through hoops. You can simply de-activate on the old machine and activate on the new one. All from a single menu command.

[Weyland-Yutani]

I'm not concerned for two reasons. One, Adobe "updates" aren't as critical as they once were. CS1 works just fine as it is. Two, there are always back-doors to bypass the software activation scheme. SW activation is just there to skim off the casual pirates. Perhaps this deters some people, perhaps even a lot but not deticated pirates. I have yet to see a piece of SW that wasn't cracked one way or the other.

[workerbee]

Originally posted by Mr Heliums:
You can simply de-activate on the old machine and activate on the new one. All from a single menu command.

What happens when your disk crashes and burns all the data? Can you simply re-install from backup and re-enter the numbers, or do you have to go and try to explain it to some Adobe rep?
I wonder because recently I thought I'd lost my disk with the Macromedia MX 2004 suite -- which has idiotic activation too. Guess what's been the number 1 troublemaker (together with its ridiculous speed on OS X before the point updates) of this suite?

[Camali]

Ok, 2 machines is fine, however, I have a G5 at home that I would definitely put CS2 and of course on my G4 at work. BUT I have a PowerBook G4 that I use when not in either place.

Do any of you think it would be possible to put an activated copy onto the PowerBook, put the book into FireWire mode and run CS2 off it that way through the G4?


Otherwise CS1 is what I'll use at work only.

[Chuckit]

Originally posted by Camali:
Do any of you think it would be possible to put an activated copy onto the PowerBook, put the book into FireWire mode and run CS2 off it that way through the G4?

Not unless you're booting off the PowerBook in target mode. Photoshop will almost certainly look for the registration database in /Library. This is true even in the current version, as far as I can tell.

[zelig2]

Originally posted by Randman:
I think I'm more pained by the US$449 pricetag just to upgrade from CS1.

Actually it's only $349 to upgrade from CS1. It's $499 to go from photoshop only to CS2. For the premium CS it's $549.

Personally I'll probably get the $349 upgrade for a number of features. Mainly for Camera Raw plugin if they make newer version only usable with CS2 and up as the batch processing is something I really want.

[JamesKass]

Oh no! They'll never be able to crack that! Heavens, what shall we do?



A month, two tops, before there's a patch or a krack for it. Mark my words, matey!

[Chuckit]

The Adobe reps quoted in that article say it's not meant to stop hardcore pirates. It's just supposed to curb casual sharing. It sounds like an effective way to do that. It's just also an effective way to piss people off.

[Superchicken]

I hate crap like this, I bought Fireworks MX 2004, then I had it installed on my iMac and iBook. I think I then reformatted my iBook's HD, and then sent it back to Apple when the Logic board died repeatedly, then when I got my PowerBook they wouldn't let me activate it without jumping through hoops. This last time I needed to install it I just found a crack instead of putting in the serial on the CD. It just isn't worth talking to the often grouchy and angry Macromedia reps. Especially since I PAID FOR THE FREAKING APP! I'm not even sure I'll ever buy another copy of Fireworks any time soon because of this crap. I'm likely to go with Photoshop after getting my tablet...

[osxisfun]

This sucks but welcome to the future of software....

and thanks for all you p2p "borrowers" out there! way to go!

Sucks i know, but everyone who copies a product is partially to blame...

(oh wait. let me guess. I am a student and can't afford it. wrong. oh wait. I would never have "paid for it" anyway. well then stop using it.)

Now as a PR and goodwill angle, what adobe should have done is lowered the price of its software and they should "in theory" see more sales. This would be them putting their money where their mouth is. But of course they didn't so it really puts them in even a worse light...

I stopped at PS 7. Golive and all the rest of their products have turned into bloated slugs that seldom have features worthy of a full point upgrade. They are not fooling anyone...they ship these updates and call them a full point upgrade for wall st. and their stock.

I do think the days of monolithic software companies are ending... core image. hello? there is a lot of photoshop in there. And for color correction and stuff (high end pre press) well you earn money with photoshop so pay for the tool.

But if you don't like the road adobe is going there is always "Gimp" cough....

Hopefully by the time PS7 stops doing what its doing, there will be panic-shop or omni-shop as mention above...small companies seem to still be close to the customer's wants and needs...

[Eug Wanker]

Originally posted by Superchicken:
I hate crap like this, I bought Fireworks MX 2004, then I had it installed on my iMac and iBook. I think I then reformatted my iBook's HD, and then sent it back to Apple when the Logic board died repeatedly, then when I got my PowerBook they wouldn't let me activate it without jumping through hoops. This last time I needed to install it I just found a crack instead of putting in the serial on the CD. It just isn't worth talking to the often grouchy and angry Macromedia reps. Especially since I PAID FOR THE FREAKING APP!

Heh. That's what I did with Quicken. I was sick and tired of calling them for an activation code (esp. since often times they couldn't figure out how to give me a proper one for my downloaded purchase thru a bank promotion). The worst part was their hours. When they could give me a code was when I was at work. Nobody could give me a code at 9 pm, because they were closed. So finally I gave up and got a copy of it that didn't require activation.

Not quite legal, but I freely admit it.

(This is on the PC. I dunno how it works on the Mac, but I haven't bothered with Quicken on the Mac, because Intuit irritates me to no end and because everyone says Quicken for Mac sux, esp. for people who need to convert files from the PC version.)

[Walker]

Can I upgrade a Education edition PS7 to CS2? If I can upgrade, will I be able to use the PS7 still?

[dru]

Originally posted by CaptainHaddock:
I've been using paid-for versions of Adobe products since Photoshop 5 and Illustrator 8.

If CS2 does indeed require activation, I'll have to consider either going without or finding a copy that is activation-free. There's no way I'm jumping through hoops each time I get a new machine or something.

Don't you get it? As their customer, err licensee, you are there to serve their every whim.

[dru]

Originally posted by Walker:
Can I upgrade a Education edition PS7 to CS2? If I can upgrade, will I be able to use the PS7 still?

Upgrade from Education? Probably not. Usually software companies want you to pay FULL RETAIL PRICE to get a newer release. If you can still get Education software, that would mean buying CS2 at full education price.

And, also, often you lose your license to a past release when you "upgrade," however, if you paid full-price you might get to keep your older license and still use PS7.

Welcome to the world of being a "software licensee."

[Chuckit]

Originally posted by osxisfun:
and thanks for all you p2p "borrowers" out there! way to go!

Sucks i know, but everyone who copies a product is partially to blame...

Even by Adobe's own word, this is absolute BS. Read the article. They specifically said this is to stop casual copying between friends or in an office, not hardcore piracy (since, you know, activation has never managed to stop that before).

[:dragonflypro:]

Hats off to every one going on about using a [K]rack. Yeah, that is gonna make them rethink the activation schema.

Seriously, people seem more interested in using this as a whine-stone than actually having a moral issue with it. It just something to B|TCH about.

The activation takes less time to do than to post in this thread. It isn't like we are already not having to enter an SN anyhow. What is an extra 30 sec of net time to authorize it?

OH NO, I am getting a new computer. I"M SCREWED. ADOBE iS TeH EVAL!

Please�

Help > Activation > De-Authorize + 30 seconds. My the horror!

Two seats should be more than plenty for a single license user. And so you know, HD clones will continue to work just fine if you need to restore it. If you place the same info back on your machine you had before the restore you have no worries.

I am sure everyone can come up with a 'on my setup this is give me problems.' Then adapt. Adobe has not allowed you to be able to run 2 machines with identical SNs on a network for years. The TOS has always stated you were not install it on more than 2 machines. If YOU chose to create a setup that works outside of that that is YOUR problem. YOU chose to operate outside the TOS.

Honestly, as a person who uses this stuff on a daily basis for many hours I can tell you that when it comes to my business this is so much NOT an issue. Anyone who chooses to make it a make or break issue is just looking to be angry.

Yeah, yeah. Sure to be followed by hordes of 'angries' on how their 'rights' are being infringed, la la la.

T

[Superchicken]

Again I cracked a copy of Fireworks I paid for. Because the activation got in the way. All I had to do was download a serial that, I don't understand how the heck putting in a single serial cracks it but I don't care if that's all I have to do to make sure I don't have to talk to that obnoxious woman I talked to before. I see absolutely no problem with using a crack on Software that I paid 150 dollars for, simply because my Logic board died.

[Twilly Spree]

So yeah. It can be cracked. Bypassed. Whatever.

[kilechki]

Originally posted by Superchicken:
Again I cracked a copy of Fireworks I paid for. Because the activation got in the way. All I had to do was download a serial that, I don't understand how the heck putting in a single serial cracks it but I don't care if that's all I have to do to make sure I don't have to talk to that obnoxious woman I talked to before. I see absolutely no problem with using a crack on Software that I paid 150 dollars for, simply because my Logic board died.

As I do agree with you on this point, you have to be aware that such a justification would not be well received in court as it has no legal validity. You gave your agreement to the Software License before using the programm, and you are breaking it if you do not respect the conditions described in the License...
I guess we will feel "trapped" by even more EULAs in the future, as nbody reads them although they become always strictier.

[MrForgetable]

i'll just wait until cs2 comes out, and find a cheap copy of CS on ebay or something.

[vtgts300kw]

adobe have said that (of course) they know students copy their programs and they dont actually care a whole lot. because they know that when the student enters the professional workforce, they will buy their product as thats what they have learnt on. using "stolen" software from the net or friends is all good and fine for educational purposes, but once you start profiting off using shared software then that has crossed the line.....

[CaptainHaddock]

With all due respect, I'd like to point out some inaccuracies here.

Originally posted by kilechki:
�you have to be aware that such a justification would not be well received in court as it has no legal validity.

What has court to do with any of this? You can't be taken to court for cracking your software.

You gave your agreement to the Software License before using the programm

He didn't agree to it before buying the program. Shrink-wrap "license agreements" are neither licenses nor agreements and have no legal standing. A court in California just confirmed this in a fairly high-profile case.

I guess we will feel "trapped" by even more EULAs in the future, as nbody reads them although they become always strictier.

You're not trapped by them because they don't amount to anything. If I put a note on your car door that said by removing the note and opening your door, you'd have to agree to my silly terms, would it be a valid contract? Of course not.

EULAs also violate the right of first sale, which is a long-standing recognized legal principle (not to mention plain common sense). Once you've sold someone something, you can no longer tell the buyer what to do with it.

Cheer up! You're a human being, not a corporate slave, and you have more freedoms than you realize!

[Weyland-Yutani]

�Mil milliones rayos y truenos!

You speak the truth CaptainHaddock

[mishap]

Originally posted by CaptainHaddock:
I vote for Omni or Panic to develop one! After all, almost all the filters Photoshop currently does can be handled directly with Tiger's new APIs. Some of Gimp's code could probably be used too. The tough part would be implementing colour management and support for all those file formats (including RAW). Add something cool that Photoshop doesn't have, and you've got a killer app.

I'll bet Omni or Panic could do it inside of a year. I'd be first in line to buy it!

i've heard this so many times. "i cant wait for the photoshop clones when Tiger ships!"

yeah, because that is all photoshop is, a bunch of filters.

i guess to some, it is...


like i said before, $149 for a new photoshop is nothing! especially when you use it every day to pay for basically all your expenses

i expected activation to be in the last version of photoshop.

[RonnieoftheRose]

Final Draft has needed activation for over 5 years now. I've had versions 4,5,6 and now 7. The software has hardly improved much and even worse the current version kept losing activation requiring me to call support for $1 a minute. I said **** it and downloaded an activation crack. I don't care what anyone says but I'm cracking software I paid for if the developers can't get it right. My serial number stays the same after the crack.

[Don Pickett]

Originally posted by demograph68:
None of the new features are relevant to me. I personally feel like Adobe is making their software more complicated actually with the way they are trying to bring the apps together into one package. But regarding the activation thing, someone will hopefully create a krack for it.

Adobe has been on a downhill slide for years now. At some point they seem to have made the decision that their future revenue would come from pushing new releases on people rather than adding features which users actually ask for.

[Randman]

Originally posted by Don Pickett:
Adobe has been on a downhill slide for years now.

What are you smoking?

[wataru]

Glad I switched to The GIMP a long time ago.

[kilechki]

Originally posted by CaptainHaddock:
What has court to do with any of this? You can't be taken to court for cracking your software.

Of course you can. If you have bought a monthly travelcard for public transportation and do not get your ticket checked properly for whatever reason, you might get a fine if a controller passes by. Your travelcard's conditions of use are not an option : they describe the only legal way to use it.

That is about the same thing for software : there might be nobody in the area that catches you, but that does not mean that what you are doing is legal.
An EULA gives you the right to *use* a software following the conditions you have agreed to be bound to when purchasing it and then accepting its licence agreement. If you do not use your software regularly and if someone suits you (for whatever reason), you will see that EULAs have much more signification than notes put on a car door...

Saying that is not being a "corporate slave". I find it important to know what you risk and to be aware of it. With such points as :

He didn't agree to it before buying the program. Shrink-wrap "license agreements" are neither licenses nor agreements and have no legal standing. A court in California just confirmed this in a fairly high-profile case.

or

You're not trapped by them because they don't amount to anything. If I put a note on your car door that said by removing the note and opening your door, you'd have to agree to my silly terms, would it be a valid contract? Of course not.

you only mislead people in letting them think that EULAs are "paper tigers" that have no legal validity. In the US as in the EU, EULAs forbid any modification to the code and any misuse of the identity of the owner.

This has little importance for the regular Joe that cracks software at home for its personal use. It is, however, of highest importance for anyone doing business with the software he uses. More and more legal actions are made against those kind of users, and some people find out much too late that they can go to jail for having thought that they had more rights on the software they purchased than the vendor himself....

Edit: that was it, thanks to oneota.

[moonmonkey]

Originally posted by wataru:
Glad I switched to The GIMP a long time ago.

Does the GIMP do this?



I don't see anyone catching up with Adobe any time soon.

[wataru]

Probably not, but I never said it could. It fits my needs, and it probably fits the needs of the kind of person who'd casually pirate Photoshop.

[Sharky K.]

Originally posted by moonmonkey:
Does the GIMP do this?



I don't see anyone catching up with Adobe any time soon.

A professional would use a 3D application for this. If you look good the tower looks horrible.

[Oneota]

Originally posted by kilechki:
Long message with previously F***ed up formatting

Ahh...thanks for fixing that. Much easier to read now.

[Chuckit]

Originally posted by kilechki:
you only mislead people in letting them think that EULAs are "paper tigers" that have no legal validity. In the US as in the EU, EULAs forbid any modification to the code and any misuse of the identity of the owner.

This has little importance for the regular Joe that cracks software at home for its personal use. It is, however, of highest importance for anyone doing business with the software he uses. More and more legal actions are made against those kind of users, and some people find out much too late that they can go to jail for having thought that they had more rights on the software they purchased than the vendor himself....

Except, of course, that a court's decision has a lot more legal weight than Kilechki's Post On The MacNN Forums.

[sieb]

You've had to "Activate" the last two versions of Photoshop on the PC, so what's the big deal? Mac users are supposed to be above this...?

[Sharky K.]

Originally posted by sieb:
You've had to "Activate" the last two versions of Photoshop on the PC, so what's the big deal? Mac users are supposed to be above this...?

Yes, mac users are somewhat different. They generally have more money to spend, buy more software and music and demand higher standard of application quality.

[Don Pickett]

Originally posted by Randman:
What are you smoking?

Nothing. I make my living with Adobe apps, and have a legit install of the full CS suite on my home machine. But it's been a long time since Adobe had a release devoid of significant bugs, and I mean big enough to screw up a job. In the mean time, the apps have gotten more and more bloated. Up through Photoshop 6 and Illustrator 5, Adobe wrote good, fast apps. Not so much anymore. It is common practice at any production/pre-press house to wait six months or so after an Illustrator release before upgrading everyone so that other people can gineau pig it for you, lest some undocumented change in the color or printing engine bring your workflow to a halt.

Anyway, just my two cents. Adobe is becoming more and more like MS every day.

[Chuckit]

Originally posted by sieb:
You've had to "Activate" the last two versions of Photoshop on the PC, so what's the big deal? Mac users are supposed to be above this...?

Not only are we supposed to be, we are.