[Draks]

I LOVE Macs. I have to have windoze at work though. My Macs have always crashed fairly often despite DT folder rebuilding regularly and having Norton DD run over disks frequently. I HATE to say this but.....Windoze hardly ever crashes

Can anyone comment?

[crazyjohnson]

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-CrazyJohnson

Originally posted by Draks:
Can anyone comment?

[bleen]

The computer freezing and stuff is related to RAM. Currently to run a Mac it's best to have at least 128 MB of RAM. As CrazyJohnson kindly noted OS X. OS X integrates Protective Memory (Sorta like what Windows has, and why the OS doesn't crash as much... but Apple did a lot better job). The current Public Beta for OS X has a lot of work that needs to be done... Wait till the word in January's MacWorld Expo to see how OS X is coming along. Until then make sure you have at least 128 MB of RAM on your Mac... acutally OS X requires 128MB minimum. So upgradeing to 128 would be a very good Idea (if you don't have at least that already )

Same experience here. I use Macs at work and at home, but we have to use a Dell at my lab to interface with a PC-only instrument. The Macs crash daily, and I can't remember that last time the Dell crashed (running windows NT). The Macs cannot print complex PDF documents, they always return postscript errors, even with the latest Laserwriter 8 drivers installed and about fifty system reinstalls (well, not quite that many . I've talked to ITD about it, and they can only say, "yeah, ALL macs have that problem". The Dell prints flawlessly.

Me and the other die-hard mac user I work with (actually she's my advisor) are both thinking of switching to PCs--they simply are less trouble. They are more stable and they interface with peripherals better, because they have better drivers. The Macs are dinosaurs in comparison. Oh yeah, for the price of one Mac, we can buy two PCs for the lab, how's that for incentive?

It is not an issue of RAM: my G4 with 256MB crashes just as often as the Beige G3 with 96MB RAM.

I remember when things were opposite, but it seems that Apple has only sat on their asses while Windows and PC makers actually worked on improving their systems. It would seem that Apple would have an advantage with their OS, since it doesn't have to work with so many different hardware combos. Ironically, its the windows systems that work better with different peripherals.

It's nice to think that OSX will change everything, but...Windows is here NOW. OSX is still vaporware. With Apple's recent offerings of hardware and OS9, I will only believe it when I see it from that company.

[This message has been edited by Phaedrus (edited 12-27-2000).]

[crazyjohnson]

You need to get a nice balance of programs on your Mac so that they dont interact, etc. My Mac does not crash. The thing with Windows is, the programs crash all the time. I have had real problems with NT, applications crashed on me all the time. The only thing is: when Windows programs crash it does not drag the rest of the OS along with it. OS X will certaintly end the problem: that on a Mac, if a program crashes, it brings the rest of the OS with it.

Wait a month or 2 - and you'll see!

Originally posted by Phaedrus:
The Macs crash daily, and I can't remember that last time the Dell crashed (running windows NT).

Macintosh is generally a graphic intense operating system. My new iMac crashed out of the box but i didn't give up simply because it crashes. sometimes your automobile overheats or you loose heat in your house. But would you trade in that particular material pocession
because it doesn't perform perfect. No, you would go about a way to understanding it. The thing i heard from a grease monkey mechanic on my car repair was, "it's not until ya start screwing around with the engine that ya begin to understand why it breaks down"
All this time we're forced to believe that Windows98 and it's predecessors were the top of the line. But clearly by the look of it's
interface it's blocky. It's long past for a change in our operating system's. to reassure us that the company's are still listening to our
opinions.
Apple doesn't want to become a monopoly just yet like Microsoft,
but to show you that the other alternative isn't bad at all. And once
people realize that and there are the day to day programs,internet,
and programming. OS X will have all the facilities it needs to become
a better OS than it's clones.

[yoyo52]

Not just RAM. Memory allocation. None of my machine ever crashes except when I do something silly, all running 9.04. My G 4 and my G 3 B&W are on 24/7, by the way.

[This message has been edited by yoyo52 (edited 12-28-2000).]

[Cipher13]

It seems most of you are doig something wrong.
I never rebuild my DT file or run any sort of diagnostic BS on mine, and it never crashes
And when it does, its just Audion 2 when I quit it or something, and that lets me recover just fine, and alls good...
And I do work the thing pretty damn hard...

Cipher13

[This message has been edited by Cipher13 (edited 12-28-2000).]

[noliv]

The PC I use crash often compared on (compared with/on/to/at/in????) my iMac (OS 9.0.4)

I don't have Norton... blabla... like Cipher.

[Richard Pinneau]

Protected Memory aside, the software you're running has EVERYTHING to do with how readily that software crashes. [ Protected Memory in OSX should have everything to do with whether the APP crashing freezes/etc the system - requiring reboot ]

When you find a stable configuration on any Mac/PC, pause before major changes (extensions, etc.).
Basically, the only APPS I have that crash are: 1) MS VisualFoxPro (unsupported by MS since ~1996) or 2) MS IE 5.0. [Less so on the latter when allocated more memory]. You could add a smaller 3): most any browser (intermittently) when accessing SOME web sites.
A friend just retired after years as the administrator of a school's large Mac network, his wife of the PC network. He related the Macs never crashing, but the PCs ALL the time.
Varied software / Varied OS versions / Varied experiences. The stories can run the opposite in other institutions, I admit.

During my 14 years on various Macs and Mac OSs, I find that each upgrade changes the stability of SOME apps (sometimes for better, sometimes for worse). Sometimes a system upgrade requires the APP to be upgraded to enable it to be a stable product - thus the @#$%!*# aggravation of unsupported software that once worked great (I have had to about give up using *paste* command in FoxPro in relational databases).

One vulnerability we Mac users have is that we sometimes get shortchanged by App/HardwareDriver developers (or they produce our versions late (or discontinue them)). Specialty software (low volume) is esp. vulnerable, but some App companies just routinely give us second status (e.g., AOL software for Mac MONTHS after the PC version).
[ BUT... strangely I can't unequivocally put MS in this category: there's a thread in here somewhere where PC guys are talking about how the latest MS Office for Mac has features windoze doesn't and they're about ready to switch. (I have so little to do with Word/Office that I decline to store the details of this thread in nonvolatile RAM upstairs). ]

And there is no one "Mac OS" or one "Windoze" - any more than there is one type of "White Man" or "Black Man". There are different editions of each with different assets/liabilities - and with different transformative "life experiences" (corrupted hard disks, system extensions, etc.). I confess to being a MacPhile; honesty requires me to admit that I have bonded rather UNconditionally to the Mac's process - loving her, but not *everything* she does [ not so unlike a human relationship, eh?]. And I CAN get POed when I can't debug or stabilize her. But when I treat her right (which includes listening to her complaints and not feeding her software that makes her nauseous), my Mac OS gives me a VERY smoothe ride.

I have so little dabbled with windoze that I can't evaluate relative merits. I suspect that loyalty to the Mac OS develops because it's ONLY a great experience, but because there are MANY great experiences - but no flawless lifes with a Mac any more than with a life-partner. But we MAKE A COMMITMENT - and invest much time, energy, affection, money - in both realms. And when someone (or some monopology of an operating system company) threatens her life we run to her defense.

These forums (together with beta testing of OSX) are one of the best defenses against terminal illnesses in the Mac and Mac OS. (One of the few that *users* have; otherwise we are left to *hoping* that apple employees and stockholders have sufficient long-term self-interest and wisdom to struggle to be competitive in an environment that (the Justice Dept says (as well as we say)) is anti-competitive.

I am grateful each year that Mac survives/flourishes (in various years). But no one know which product line has the future fate of Packard/Plymouth/Oldsmobile. Or when.

Keep up the criticism AND encouragment! Both are vital to survival.

[yoyo52]

Hear hear, Richard!

[Gregg]

Well Draks, I admire your courage in pointing out the failings of your Macs on a Mac forum. I agree with you. My stand alone Mac at home crashes every so often. It's not enough to tick me off, but it's more often than the office computer, on a network, running Windows 98. I'll have to say that one reason for the stability at work is that no one fiddles with the machine like I do with my Mac at home. I hope OSX really does alleviate this crashing problem. It's still easier and more fun to use the Mac, but it's not a wide gap.