[Zeeb]

Can someone tell me why, in a large city, with tons of cars and people going in every direction as fast as possible--do cyclists *not* feel the need to obey traffic laws? Some are responsible, but the majority blow through stop signs, red lights, and ride on crowded sidewalks at high speeds. I see people on a daily basis blow through a red light at a busy 4 lane intersection without slowing down. I guess that person trusts that they will see any cars coming in a millisecond and make the appropriate adjustment.

Although they will pay attention to cars (since they are bigger and can hurt them more seriously)--some cyclists could care less about people. Even when the light is in my favor as a pedestrian I have keep my eyes peeled for a suicidal cyclist who refuses to stop and may suddenly appear from behind a truck. It's sometimes hard to see them from around large vehicles and I've seen pedestrians get hit on a few occasions. What's infuriating is that even if the person on the bicylce ran a light, they often are aggressive and scream at the person they hit.

I feel better now that I've ranted on the internets. Thank you.

[Dakar the Fourth]

Oh good, the perfect thread to post this picture.

[MacosNerd]

What an awful tragedy, I saw the picture on msnbc along with the story. It seems the driver was drunk and fell asleep at the wheel.

[Dakar the Fourth]

It's utterly ridiculous. I'm left wondering why the cop didn't throw his car in front of it, though. Unfortunately you can't gather what kind of warning they had, but you'd think they saw him coming.

[Eug]

Originally Posted by Dakar the Fourth 

Oh good, the perfect thread to post this picture.

Except in this pic (where 1 guy died), they were not breaking any laws. The driver was the one breaking the law.

Originally Posted by Zeeb 

Can someone tell me why, in a large city, with tons of cars and people going in every direction as fast as possible--do cyclists *not* feel the need to obey traffic laws? Some are responsible, but the majority blow through stop signs, red lights, and ride on crowded sidewalks at high speeds. I see people on a daily basis blow through a red light at a busy 4 lane intersection without slowing down. I guess that person trusts that they will see any cars coming in a millisecond and make the appropriate adjustment.

Although they will pay attention to cars (since they are bigger and can hurt them more seriously)--some cyclists could care less about people. Even when the light is in my favor as a pedestrian I have keep my eyes peeled for a suicidal cyclist who refuses to stop and may suddenly appear from behind a truck. It's sometimes hard to see them from around large vehicles and I've seen pedestrians get hit on a few occasions. What's infuriating is that even if the person on the bicylce ran a light, they often are aggressive and scream at the person they hit.

I feel better now that I've ranted on the internets. Thank you.

Yeah, I'm a driver and a biker too. I want more bike lanes in my city, but I don't agree with some of the cycling activists around here. They keep talking about safety for cyclists and while that's a laudable goal, some never say a word about the cyclists that constantly ride dangerously.

I too often see aggressive cyclists scream at cars that just about hit them, even though the near-accidents were entirely the cyclists' fault. No wonder drivers hate them with a passion. Bike couriers seem like the most visible group, but not all bike couriers are like this, and aggressive bike couriers likely represent a very small proportion of aggressive cyclists overall.

[paul w]

I bike from Brooklyn to Manhattan every day and I see a LOT of that too. I've been riding in this city for a long time and I've never hit anyone because I'm careful.

BUT I'm amazed at how many people jump out into the street (right in front of my bike!) looking the opposite way of oncoming traffic - relying on what their hearing, a sixth sense? Or how pedestrians and cars basically ignore cyclists, regardless of whether the light is in their favor.

And the city has made a lot of biking lanes which are basically ignored by a large percentage of vehicles. Basically for all the times that cyclists act stupid there are many more where cars and pedestrians do the same.

Now, barreling through intersections on a red light and disregarding pedestrians is bad, and dangerous. And there's suddenly a whole new generation of jerky fixed gear riders who don't want to stop and are making bikers look bad for the rest of us.

Wear a helmet and obey traffic laws. I will generally say it's ok to run a red if the coast is clear AND you're not mowing down pedestrians. But in any event, slow down as you approach the intersection.

[Dakar the Fourth]

Originally Posted by Eug 

Except in this pic (where 1 guy died), they were not breaking any laws. The driver was the one breaking the law.

You're making the false assumption that my post was intended to complement the OP. Have you learned nothing from my past 18,000 posts?

[Zeeb]

Originally Posted by paul w 

I bike from Brooklyn to Manhattan every day and I see a LOT of that too. I've been riding in this city for a long time and I've never hit anyone because I'm careful.

BUT I'm amazed at how many people jump out into the street (right in front of my bike!) looking the opposite way of oncoming traffic - relying on what their hearing, a sixth sense? Or how pedestrians and cars basically ignore cyclists, regardless of whether the light is in their favor.

And the city has made a lot of biking lanes which are basically ignored by a large percentage of vehicles. Basically for all the times that cyclists act stupid there are many more where cars and pedestrians do the same.

Now, barreling through intersections on a red light and disregarding pedestrians is bad, and dangerous. And there's suddenly a whole new generation of jerky fixed gear riders who don't want to stop and are making bikers look bad for the rest of us.

Wear a helmet and obey traffic laws. I will generally say it's ok to run a red if the coast is clear AND you're not mowing down pedestrians. But in any event, slow down as you approach the intersection.

True, its not as if cars don't regularly run lights as well. Pedestrians also have a tendency to walk in front of oncoming traffic and in those cases its not the biker's fault.

[Zeeb]

Originally Posted by Dakar the Fourth 

You're making the false assumption that my post was intended to complement the OP. Have you learned nothing from my past 18,000 posts?

Too bad the picture isn't visible on my computer -- it sounds like I missed quite the "ding".

[Eug]

Oh, yeah, fixed gear riders do somehow seem overrepresented in this group. Maybe it is indeed because they don't want to slow down.

Cars running red lights are fairly unusual around here, unless you count people turning left on a yellow light as it's turning red.

P.S. I'm in Toronto.

Originally Posted by Dakar the Fourth 

You're making the false assumption that my post was intended to complement the OP. Have you learned nothing from my past 18,000 posts?

Why would I think your post was intended to complement the OP? Basically I was suggesting in not so many words that the pic might be considered less than appropriate, for a couple of reasons.

[paul w]

Originally Posted by Zeeb 

True, its not as if cars don't regularly run lights as well. Pedestrians also have a tendency to walk in front of oncoming traffic and in those cases its not the biker's fault.

Run lights not often (but yeah it DOES happen), but when I'm in a bike lane, I can expect the car in front of me to cut me off, or squeeze me as if I'm not there. I yell and they usually act suprised to see me. I'm in a f&cking clearly painted bikelane dipsh*t!

Let's not forget the geniuses driving on their cellphones who are oblivious to everything, the wonderful people who open their car doors without looking and the blessed souls who walk, jog, ski in the dedicated bike lanes.

Seriously, I'll grant that there are a lot of dick cyclists, but the majority of US are beset by even more dangerous drivers and pedestrians. So yeah, I don't really have much sympathy for rants like yours.

[paul w]

by the way, being on the right seems to makes sense, but actually they're making bike lanes on the left hand side (of one way streets) as it's more visible to the driver (for all the good I've seen it actually do).

[ghporter]

When I ride on the street I stick to the right-hand edge of the lane whenever there are cars around. I only ride on the sidewalk when there's no room for me in the traffic lanes (our bus drivers don't seem to get the idea that they need to pay attention to ANYTHING, let alone bikes). And while I'll admit that I roll through a lot of stop signs, I only do it in residential areas with ZERO traffic. If there are cars around, it would feel like I was daring them to say "but he didn't stop at the sign, and I didn't have a stop sign at all..." And whether I'm on foot, on my bike, or behind the wheel, I keep my eyes on pedestrians because you NEVER know what they'll do.

I'm also paranoid about my own visibility. Now some might say "Glenn, you're a big, tall guy on a big, tall bike; how could anyone not see you?" But I rode a motorcycle for quite a while and I already know that "they can't see you, but they're out to get you" is apparently a natural law.

But that drunk that mowed down the cyclists is inexcusable.

Originally Posted by Eug 

Cars running red lights are fairly unusual around here, unless you count people turning left on a yellow light as it's turning red.

P.S. I'm in Toronto.

Here in San Antonio, a lot of people think that if the light has only been red for a moment, it's ok to go through it. Seriously, that's how they drive. I tend to tick people off by slowing down when the light ahead turns yellow, but then I don't want to be the one that gets t-boned by the next moron that's in too big a hurry to watch (or respect) the lights.

[Eug]

Originally Posted by paul w 

Run lights not often (but yeah it DOES happen), but when I'm in a bike lane, I can expect the car in front of me to cut me off, or squeeze me as if I'm not there. I yell and they usually act suprised to see me. I'm in a f&cking clearly painted bikelane dipsh*t!

They can't see you. They may not check, and that's bad, but even if they do, they often don't see you.

It's very hard IMO to see a cyclist coming, esp. if there are any obstructing items at all, or if a light/reflection is making things difficult. It's much, much easier to see a car.

As far as I'm concerned, if a cyclist sees a car near an intersection with a green light and decides to go full speed along the right sided bike lane, he's asking to die. In a perfect world that wouldn't happen, but that's just the way it is, and that's likely the way it's gonna be for the next 25 years.

[Luca Rescigno]

I hardly ever see cars run red lights either, unless you're counting it when they run a yellow light that turns to red just before they enter the intersection.

Stop signs, yeah. Especially in residential neighborhoods at 2-way stops. If you don't have a stop but the other traffic direction does, you still have to slow way down because people don't stop and often hardly even slow down.

Oh yeah, and what REALLY cheeses me off is the huge number of runners who take the bike lanes for themselves. Especially when there's a sidewalk or a separate (and clearly labeled) running path not ten feet away. Seriously, what's wrong with these dipshits.

[Dakar the Fourth]

Originally Posted by Eug 

Why would I think your post was intended to complement the OP?

Your post seem to be pointing out that it was the exact opposite of what the OP was talking about. As if I had misinterpreted him.

Originally Posted by Eug 

Basically I was suggesting in not so many words that the pic might be considered less than appropriate, for a couple of reasons.

Boy, I find that incredibly hard to gather from:

Originally Posted by Eug 

Except in this pic (where 1 guy died), they were not breaking any laws. The driver was the one breaking the law.

Am I the only one?

[paul w]

I don't buy it - I drive in the city from time to time and I always check before making a left hand turn across a bike lane. It's not that hard, the lane is right there, not really even in your blind spot. It's a lane, you're not supposed to ignore it.

And common sense tells me of course I don't barrel full speed into such a situation.

But by getting squeezed and cut off it's often - usually not even at the intersection. It's in the middle of the street. I have no defense for this other than to brake/pray/yell bloody murder.

[Zeeb]

Originally Posted by paul w 

Run lights not often (but yeah it DOES happen), but when I'm in a bike lane, I can expect the car in front of me to cut me off, or squeeze me as if I'm not there. I yell and they usually act suprised to see me. I'm in a f&cking clearly painted bikelane dipsh*t!

Let's not forget the geniuses driving on their cellphones who are oblivious to everything, the wonderful people who open their car doors without looking and the blessed souls who walk, jog, ski in the dedicated bike lanes.

Seriously, I'll grant that there are a lot of dick cyclists, but the majority of US are beset by even more dangerous drivers and pedestrians. So yeah, I don't really have much sympathy for rants like yours.

The difference is that cars in NY will always run yellow lights and then for a few seconds when it turns red--but they do stop. There is a pattern to the way vehicular traffice moves--albeit unlawful--that can be discerned and adjusted to. The cyclists I've observed run red lights that have been red for awhile--making them more unpredictable and dangerous.

[paul w]

I see all of your points, but even by being careful and conscientious I'm still getting the shaft, safety wise. Those cyclists should be ticketed.

As I said - slowing down at an intersection and crossing if there are no cars or pedestrians is fine. Else, you're being an unsafe dick.

[ghporter]

Paul, note the "natural law" I cited in my above post. If you're on two wheels, you MUST behave as if you're invisible, because the majority—the vast, overwhelming majority—of drivers don't care that they don't notice huge trucks, let alone those of us on two wheels. They're in their own little worlds (must be lonely there) and really don't give a rat's skinny tail about the rest of the universe. If you've been on two wheels in traffic, you know what to look for, but generally even I have a hard time seeing bikes in traffic if they're not relatively close to me.

And almost everyone in traffic is named Richard. On two or four wheels, it doesn't matter. Sad but true.

[paul w]

I know Glenn, that's why after 20 odd years of intrepid city biking I'm still here. Never been in an accident. Wear a helmet, lights, etc.

But I've biked abroad, commuted daily for years in Paris and spent a lot of time in other cities like Amsterdam, biking around. I know that it doesn't HAVE to be this bad.

[OreoCookie]

Drivers get annoyed by cyclists regardless of whether they obey the traffic rules or not. Example: when I'm on the street and want to make a left turn, I signal, then stop. Now, if I were a car, the cars behind me would just wait and not think anything special of it. But because I'm a bike, they get annoyed, because `I could/should be somewhere else.' Technically, I can go on the sidewalk, but legally I can't!

[Mithras]

I'm a regular bike commuter (well, bike errander) in Manhattan, and it drives me bonkers the way many other cyclists ride.

I don't think I'm much of a stick-up-my-ass type, but when guys on bikes are running red lights, going the wrong way down a one-way street (!!), and generally behaving as though the only rule is "if you can fit, go there"... well, it gets to me.

Often the bikers are immigrant delivery men, so I at least feel some sympathy to their struggle to make a living, and understand why they might take the shortest route possible, and save as much time as they can. I still wish they wore helmets, though.

And when it's jackass road cyclists in spandex, well, there's no excuse for that.

[Jawbone54]

I'm buying a bike soon for riding to work just for the exercise and fuel conservation. It's not as feasible to commute on a bike here, considering there's probably not a bike lane in the city and several narrow bridges on the way to my office, but I've been tinkering with the idea for a while.

Does anyone here commute on a bike in less-metropolitan areas?
I'm taking notes on all of this.

[MarkLT1]

Jawbone-

Both my wife and myself commute in a less-metropolitan area (suburban type area) without bike lanes. My commute is only about 2 miles, my wife commutes about 6. We also do a great deal of road cycling for excercsise/fun (in the summer, 200+ miles per week).

The things to remember-
1) In most (all?) states, bikes are afforded "The same rights and responsibilities as motorized vehicles". You get on the road, you play by the rules, but also are afforded the protection of the rules (not that this matters much if you are mowed down and killed, but more on this later).

2) Included in these rules, is that you are not allowed to "unnecessarily" hold up traffic. I.e.- as a cyclist, it is your duty to be as far to the right as prudent/safe. In some states there are specific laws of how far out into the lane you can go- you need to check your laws. My rule of thumb is this- if a road has just enough room such that the driver can try to squeeze by in their lane, I take 2 or so feet of the lane to prevent this. If a driver must go slightly into the oncoming lane in order to pass, they are typically MUCH more attentive. If they can squeeze by, they most likely will try, and that is when you get into trouble. The law allows for this. Also, it may get a driver agitated, but by and far, most people would not try to hurt/kill you. If they are mad at you (because you are inconveniencing them by your use of the road, for all of 30 seconds), then they see you, and you are much less likely to be hurt. If you ride way over to the edge, and they can squeeze by, they are much more likely to hit you unintentionally, and cause injury.

3) Number 2 rarely comes into play for me, because I avoid these types of roads as much as I can (even if it means going a mile or two out of my way). Become familiar with the roads in your area- find those roads that have wide lanes and/or shoulders. It is not always possible to avoid a narrow, well auto traveled road, but usually you can.

4) NEVER assume a driver sees you. And just because you have the right-of-way, doesn't mean it will be yielded to you. This becomes most apparent in 2 situations- the first is when you are moving through an intersection, and an oncoming car is taking a left. They must yield to you, but many times don't. The second is when you are on a roadway, and someone is making a right hand turn from a cross street into your lane. My wife was hit and injured while going through a green light, and an oncoming car was taking a left. The driver didn't see her, and just plowed right into her. I was very nearly taken out by someone who almost pulled out in front of me into my lane when I was doing about 35 down a hill (no I wasn't speeding- it was a 40mph zone). My first instinct, because I couldn't get my hands off the bars safely, was to yell VERY loud. It caught the drivers attention and they stopped, and I had JUST enough room to turn and clear the front of their car. These are probably 2 of the more common crashes that occur.

I have found that when going slowly through an intersection, assuming the oncoming left turning car does not see me, and waving my left hand is quite effective. Also, yelling loudly gets peoples attention and they tend to brake by instinct. This is what saved me a couple months ago.

Finally, always try to see an out. By suspecting that whoever is coming into your lane wont see you want will just go, you should already be prepared to brake, swerve, do whatever you need to avoid them.

5) No matter what you do, bad things can happen (as with my wife- she did everything should could to avoid the accident, but still ended up human side down, wheel side up). Do yourself a favor and wear a helmet.

6) Dont let all this scare you. If you bike safely, defensively, alert, and wear a helmet, you reduce your risk of crashes, and injury if you do crash by a large factor. Cycling, be it commuting, or exercising can be quite fun and addictive. You not only save on gas, but become healthier. If you have any other questions, please feel free to ask!

[OreoCookie]

Very good list, Mark.
You should move up the last point to first: Always wear a helmet. Always. No exceptions. It's kinda like wearing a seatbelt while driving, but this time, you don't have a buffer zone. And it's pointless if your gravestone reads `I had the right of way'

I had a bike accident last year, because a driver (who came from working his night shift) had to overtake me in a curve and then he realized (because of oncoming traffic), it was a bit tight and that he should rather hit the breaks. Hard. So I hit the breaks and fell over the handle bar (according to my mom who works in hospital, it was the classical head + shoulder + opposite hand injury). If the driver hadn't hit the breaks, the whole accident could have been avoided. Without a helmet, I would have hit the road in excess of 30 km/h (about 20 mph).

Nevertheless, cycling is safe, if you're smart about it. Avoid major roads if you can. Make sure that you are seen (and that includes `blocking the road for 30 seconds' to turn left, for instance).

[MarkLT1]

Originally Posted by OreoCookie 

Very good list, Mark.
You should move up the last point to first: Always wear a helmet. Always. No exceptions.

Hehe. Being the most important, I list it at the end- dont want it to be forgotten by the end of my soapbox rambling .

[paul w]

Lights are really a must for non-daylight hours. Reflectors aren't enough.

I often need to yell a loud "hey!" to get drivers' attention, but I wonder if a horn or bell would do the trick.

Also: tie or roll up your cuffs - boy do they get dirty otherwise!

[rozwado1]

what bugs me the most is the Spanish-speaking population that ride their bikes backwards in the bike lane (best case) or ride on the 3' sidewalks and run over pedestrians when the bike lane is right next to them. On the beach all the housing is very shrubbed on the street- I've seen people walk out of their building reading their mail and getting run over by mexibikes on 3 occasions. Its supposed to be a ticket, but I've never seen it enforced.

I tend to obey traffic laws, but I've still been hit twice.

[subego]

Originally Posted by OreoCookie 

But because I'm a bike, they get annoyed, because `I could/should be somewhere else.' Technically, I can go on the sidewalk, but legally I can't!

Technically, at least in my state, what you are supposed to do is occupy the right hand side of the left turn lane, to give cars room to get next to you.

If this does not appeal, you get off the bike and walk it across the street as a pedestrian, which is really what you should be doing anyways unless riding a bike is your job.

As neither of these things seem to be what you describe, these people very well may be getting annoyed because you're breaking the law.

[MarkLT1]

Originally Posted by subego 

Technically, at least in my state, what you are supposed to do is occupy the right hand side of the left turn lane, to give cars room to get next to you.

I'd like to see the section of code that discusses this in your state's laws.

If this does not appeal, you get off the bike and walk it across the street as a pedestrian, which is really what you should be doing anyways unless riding a bike is your job.

1) What does riding a bike being your occupation have anything to do with it?
2) One of the more dangerous thing a cyclist can do is switch between vehicle and pedestrian "mode". Ok, so you walk your bike across the street. Now you have to get back into traffic, most likely on a busy street (if said street had a left turn lane onto it). This is dangerous for a host of reasons including the fact that you have a period where you need to be standing still in the street, you are less visible, etc..

[OreoCookie]

Originally Posted by subego 

Technically, at least in my state, what you are supposed to do is occupy the right hand side of the left turn lane, to give cars room to get next to you.

Not if you're doing a left turn on a one-lane street, there is no second lane. If there is a second lane (i. e. it's clear you're making a left-hand turn and you're not overtaken by cars that go straight), of course I'm on the right side of the left turn lane.

Originally Posted by subego 

If this does not appeal, you get off the bike and walk it across the street as a pedestrian, which is really what you should be doing anyways unless riding a bike is your job.

No, you have to behave like a motorized vehicle and I'm not obliged to get off my bike and push it across the street to enter another street. If I do a left turn on a one lane street, I have to behave like a motorbike or a car and other traffic participants have to wait.

Originally Posted by subego 

As neither of these things seem to be what you describe, these people very well may be getting annoyed because you're breaking the law.

I'm not breaking the law.
I have to behave like a motorized vehicle and make way for other vehicles when possible, because typically, I'm slower than cars. The same is true of slower, motorized vehicles on the road: you have to make way for other, faster vehicles.

[MarkLT1]

Originally Posted by paul w 

I often need to yell a loud "hey!" to get drivers' attention, but I wonder if a horn or bell would do the trick.

Bells are typically not loud enough to hear through a car and over the engine noise.

As for a horn, you'd need to check your local laws- at least in my area a horn is illegal on a bicycle. Yelling is quite effective if you can't use a horn.

[subego]

Originally Posted by MarkLT1 

I'd like to see the section of code that discusses this in your state's laws.

(625 ILCS 5/11‑1510) (from Ch. 95 1/2, par. 11‑1510)
Sec. 11‑1510. Left Turns. (a) A person riding a bicycle or motorized pedalcycle intending to turn left shall follow a course described in Section 11‑801 or in paragraph (b) of this Section.
(b) A person riding a bicycle or motorized pedalcycle intending to turn left shall approach the turn as close as practicable to the right curb or edge of the roadway.

Originally Posted by MarkLT1 

1) What does riding a bike being your occupation have anything to do with it?

Because it's an excuse for being impatient.

Originally Posted by MarkLT1 

2) One of the more dangerous thing a cyclist can do is switch between vehicle and pedestrian "mode".

I think you mean switching from pedestrian to vehicle mode as you discuss below. How is switching from vehicle to pedestrian mode, at a stoplight, unsafe?

Originally Posted by MarkLT1 

Ok, so you walk your bike across the street. Now you have to get back into traffic, most likely on a busy street (if said street had a left turn lane onto it). This is dangerous for a host of reasons including the fact that you have a period where you need to be standing still in the street, you are less visible, etc..

What makes this dangerous is being impatient.

[OreoCookie]

@subego
Your state's regulation don't mandate cyclists to be as far right as possible when they turn left (emphasis mine):

Sec. 11-1505. Position of bicycles and motorized pedal cycles on roadways—Riding on roadways and bicycle paths.

(a) Any person operating a bicycle or motorized pedal cycle upon a roadway at less than the normal speed of traffic at the time and place and under the conditions then existing shall ride as close as practicable to the right-hand curb or edge of the roadway except under the following situations: 1. When overtaking and passing another bicycle, motorized pedal cycle or vehicle proceeding in the same direction; or 2. When preparing for a left turn at an intersection or into a private road or driveway;

Originally Posted by subego 

I think you mean switching from pedestrian to vehicle mode as you discuss below. How is switching from vehicle to pedestrian mode, at a stoplight, unsafe?

Because it is not clear for drivers how you will behave. Communication is the key in traffic and if it is not clear what you are going to do, the likelihood of crashes is increased. Especially if your behavior is not expected (e. g. because you are not mandated to get off your bike to cross the street).

[MarkLT1]

Originally Posted by subego 

(625 ILCS 5/11‑1510) (from Ch. 95 1/2, par. 11‑1510)
Sec. 11‑1510. Left Turns. (a) A person riding a bicycle or motorized pedalcycle intending to turn left shall follow a course described in Section 11‑801 or in paragraph (b) of this Section.
(b) A person riding a bicycle or motorized pedalcycle intending to turn left shall approach the turn as close as practicable to the right curb or edge of the roadway.

The key word here is "Practicable". If I am making a left turn, in an unprotected left turn lane (i.e.- I have traffic going straight to my right) "practicable" is taking the entire left turn lane, such that I am not squeezed between two cars (one in the left turn lane, one in the lane going straight). If I have a large protected left turn lane (i.e.- there is a barrier between the left turn lane, and the traffic that is continuing straight), AND there is enough room to safely allow a car in said left turn lane to pass me without undue risk of being squeezed into the protective barrier, then I stay to the right far enough to let the car pass.

Because it's an excuse for being impatient.

Ahh, so being impatient means you can excise your rights on the road, but if you are not in a rush, you should put yourself in more danger.

I think you mean switching from pedestrian to vehicle mode as you discuss below. How is switching from vehicle to pedestrian mode, at a stoplight, unsafe?

Any time a cyclist has to stop, and either get on or off a busy road, they are putting themselves in danger. Drivers expect traffic to be moving. They dont expect to see a cyclist slow, stop, and try to get themselves off the road. Sure, it is probably safer to get yourself off the road then on, but if I take myself off the road to cross at a light as a pedestrian, I then have to get myself back ON the road to continue my travel.

What makes this dangerous if being impatient.

As I have stated, any time a cyclist makes a transition between pedestrian and vehicle, it has an elevated level of danger, for the reason stated above- a car is expecting traffic on the road, in its lane to be moving. To get on to a road from a sidewalk you are putting yourself in danger for 2 reasons:

1) Typically you are stopped/slow for a time while you mount the bike, and begin to pedal.
2) Drivers are not watching for random cyclists (or pedestrians) to be coming off the sidewalk.

These dangers are even more elevated close to an intersection, as vehicles are changing from one direction to the other, and may have limited visibility due to this. Additionally, the cyclist has limited visibility- for example, if someone is taking a right on to the street you are trying to merge into, your view of them could be blocked by a building, lights, bus stop, etc.. And if your view of them is blocked, their view of you is blocked. It is a dangerous place to get onto a street.

[lexapro]

Sidewalk. Not ride. For cars that stop in the bike lanes I advocate immediate tow. Take their car away from them. I don't want to ride out into traffic.

[subego]

Originally Posted by OreoCookie 

I'm not breaking the law.

Are you sure?

As I said, you would be in my state. What state do you live in?

[OreoCookie]

I've quoted your state's regulation, you've misinterpreted them.

[subego]

You are absolutely right.

Withdrawn.

My Bad.

Likewise to MarkLT1.

[MarkLT1]

Originally Posted by OreoCookie 

I've quoted your state's regulation, you've misinterpreted them.

Ok. Reading the law a little bit further. The state law cited says you must follow this "cross the intsersecting roadway, then wait, and cross to the left" method (like a pedestrian) OR, "follow a course described in Section 11-801".

Section 11-801 describes how a car makes a left hand turn. I.e- if you are making a left hand turn, you can act like, and are afforded all of the rights, of a car making a left hand turn.

[OreoCookie]

You're right.
I'm not familiar with the laws of Illinois (I've never been there, let alone driven). But laws regarding bikes are usually the same: you're afforded the same rights as a car, but as a slower participant you have to make way.

[subego]

Originally Posted by MarkLT1 

Section 11-801 describes how a car makes a left hand turn. I.e- if you are making a left hand turn, you can act like, and are afforded all of the rights, of a car making a left hand turn.

Yup. I'm wrong.

My apologies.

[MarkLT1]

Originally Posted by subego 

You are absolutely right.

Withdrawn.

My Bad.

Likewise to MarkLT1.

No worries. I think a large part of the problem for cyclists, is that most people dont realize that the law considers bicycles a vehicle on the road, and are afforded all of the rights and responsibilities of any other vehicle. This is a concern, as with the fuel issues, many more people are entertaining the idea of using bicycles more, and with the level of misunderstanding, lack of patience, etc.. a lot of people are going to get hurt.

What always gets me, are people that get all in a tizzy/upset by a cyclist slowing them down. The longest I have ever held up a car (due to not enough space to pass) was *MAYBE* a minute. To that driver, I want to ask: "Is getting all angry about that minute of inconvenience really worth 1) the stress you cause to yourself and 2) putting another person, who is simply exercising their rights, in danger?"

[subego]

Originally Posted by MarkLT1 

No worries. I think a large part of the problem for cyclists, is that most people dont realize that the law considers bicycles a vehicle on the road, and are afforded all of the rights and responsibilities of any other vehicle.

You are absolutely correct. I actually do realize this, and my anger is towards the cyclists who don't realize it.

Considering what OC was talking about, I realize the irony here. My rage has caused something of an anal-cranial inversion.

Originally Posted by MarkLT1 

What always gets me, are people that get all in a tizzy/upset by a cyclist slowing them down. The longest I have ever held up a car (due to not enough space to pass) was *MAYBE* a minute. To that driver, I want to ask: "Is that minute of inconvenience really worth 1) the stress you cause to yourself and 2) putting another person, who is simply exercising their rights, in danger?"

The only time this bothers me is in the situation I mentioned above, wherein the cyclist isn't behaving like a normal vehicle.

The most common occurrence of this is playing leapfrog with a cyclist on a residential street because the cyclist (illegally) passes me at every stop sign.

[Rumor]

Originally Posted by Dakar the Fourth 

Oh good, the perfect thread to post this picture.

Wow. That has to be at least a couple thousand points right there.

[subego]

Am I the only one who thinks that pic looks like a bunch of cyclists and a single dairy cow?

[ghporter]

Originally Posted by paul w 

I often need to yell a loud "hey!" to get drivers' attention, but I wonder if a horn or bell would do the trick..

Around here you could set of a howitzer next to 'em and they wouldn't notice. Unless you hit them with the round, of course... Hmmmm....... Nah. Too much recoil. Darn!

Originally Posted by subego 

Am I the only one who thinks that pic looks like a bunch of cyclists and a single dairy cow?

No you're not. The guy in midair at the upper left is wearing black and white, and his pose makes him look a little like a Jersey cow. But from his positioning, I would be surprised if he wasn't the guy who was killed (unless that one was just plain run over).

[OreoCookie]

I'm surprised only one person was killed. I cringe, every time I see that photo.
BTW, is that a police car on the right?

[Rumor]

Originally Posted by OreoCookie 

I'm surprised only one person was killed. I cringe, every time I see that photo.
BTW, is that a police car on the right?

Sure is. Most likely was an escort to prevent the cyclist from harm.