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JohnM15141 · 12:21 AM

I ordered a DP1.25GHz PowerMac without options 'cause I needed it "Like Yesterday" so I ordered it without options.

I think I made a mistake since I did not order the bluetooth module. I have a Use for Bluetooth.

So now, when I use my USB Bluetooth Dongle I use up a USB port(which I need dearly.)

If I had ordered my PowerMac with a Bluetooth Module it would still be on a USB Channel but, I wouldn't have used a USB port since the channel the USB Bluetooth Module uses is shared with the Internal Modem.

My conclusion is:

Module good, Dongle bad...!

So now what can do I do? Do you think in the future Apple, or a 3rd party, will sell a Bluetooth Module? (by the way, Dongles abound...)

Or, do you disagree with my rational?

What about trying to get someone who has no use for Bluetooth to part with their Bluetooth Module?

Any input is welcome.

(PS, as far as I can tell now, the Bluetooth Module is a BTO item only, correct me if I'm wrong.)

geekwagon · Mar 24, 2003, 04:26 AM

Same boat as you. I have been meaning to try one of my local dealers to see if I could order it as a repair part. Please post again if you do figure anything out.

Eug · Mar 24, 2003, 02:10 PM

Get a USB hub.

JohnM15141 · Mar 26, 2003, 03:06 AM

Originally posted by Eug:
Get a USB hub.

duh!

don't you think I thought of this already?

You can only add so many hubs, when USB 1.1 puts out 12 MBS per channel and each channel has two ports, it's easy to overwhelm it and get the dreaded message "A USB Ports is drawing too much power and is being shutdown" trust me I've gotten this message many times. If I can move something to an available channel it would help relieve the overloads hence my original question at the beginning of my thread.

dn15 · 03:46 AM

Originally posted by JohnM15141:
duh!

don't you think I thought of this already?

You can only add so many hubs, when USB 1.1 puts out 12 MBS per channel and each channel has two ports, it's easy to overwhelm it and get the dreaded message "A USB Ports is drawing too much power and is being shutdown" trust me I've gotten this message many times. If I can move something to an available channel it would help relieve the overloads hence my original question at the beginning of my thread.

If the message you got is the same one I have seen, all you need is a powered USB hub to plug your stuff into... right? The power problem results not just from having too many things plugged in, but rather from the combination having too many devices and not using hubs that can power them. Or are you talking about another issue entirely?

JohnM15141 · Mar 26, 2003, 06:49 AM

A combination of both.

Too much data being going through the USB causes devices to give up and return error messages. And also using too many devices at the same time that draw too much power and causes the channel to shutdown.

Powered Hubs help but they don't let me send extra data like an additional channel would.

I guess the simplest solution is to not operate to many devices at the same time.

If I can't get my hands on a bluetooth module I'll add a PCI Bus USB card. But I'd still have that extra half a channel doing nothing inside my PowerMac and somehow that just seems wrong to me...

dn15 · Mar 28, 2003, 04:54 AM

The PCI card idea sounds good. USB cards don't seem horribly expensive these days, so it should be pretty easy to get one -- even if part of that other channel is wasted.

Good luck.

ccsccs7 · Mar 29, 2003, 03:34 AM

Maybe, one day if your systems needs to be repaired. Mention that bluetooth doesn't work. Maybe they'll take a hint when they see that the module is missing.

I don't know. Just a thought.

schalliol · Mar 29, 2003, 06:28 AM

hahahah, oh yeah, "Apple forgot to install the board!"

Kenneth · Mar 29, 2003, 06:53 AM

I bought my MDD FW800 from the store since I couldn't wait for BTO on AppleStore. I hope there will be some bluetooth module selling on eBay or Apple changes its mind.

schalliol · Mar 29, 2003, 12:49 PM

I would be surprised if they didn't offer it later. The parts may be somewhat constrained and figure 95% of the people who want Bluetooth today already got it installed. It's even possible that someone else will mfgr. modules for the port (never seen a pic), as Apple probably doesn't. It also takes some planning to get a retail package/system together and they may have been rushing to be able to even provide them at all.

Cipher13 · Mar 30, 2003, 04:51 AM

Originally posted by JohnM15141:
duh!

don't you think I thought of this already?

Don't be an *******, people are trying to help you here. Watch the attitude.

Originally posted by JohnM15141:
You can only add so many hubs, when USB 1.1 puts out 12 MBS per channel and each channel has two ports, it's easy to overwhelm it and get the dreaded message "A USB Ports is drawing too much power and is being shutdown" trust me I've gotten this message many times. If I can move something to an available channel it would help relieve the overloads hence my original question at the beginning of my thread.

The power draw issue has nothing to do with bus saturation data-wise.

JohnM15141 · 08:52 AM

Originally posted by Cipher13:
Don't be an *******, people are trying to help you here. Watch the attitude.

I'd say your the one with "the attitude" and a foul mouth to boot!..and who made you the attitude Nazi anyway?

Originally posted by Cipher13:
The power draw issue has nothing to do with bus saturation data-wise.

Duh!

Thanks for stating the obvious.

I never said that this was the case. I'm having a power draw issue and a bus saturation issue. I never said that drawing to much power caused the data saturation or vice-versa.

My original point is to make use of the unused half Channel associated with the Internal Modem on the USB Bus. Obtaining an internal Bluetooth Module is the elegant solution.

PS Thanks for your help

JohnM15141 · Mar 30, 2003, 08:50 AM

schalliol · Mar 30, 2003, 01:05 PM

Stop the fighting, abuse will be reported if not stopped "This is ONLY to be used to report spam, advertising messages, and problematic (harassment, fighting, or rude) posts."

BTW, if you're making a post 8 minutes after the last, no one responded and you just want to add an emoticon, please press the edit button and update your post.

JB72 · Mar 30, 2003, 03:45 PM

Originally posted by dn15:
The PCI card idea sounds good. USB cards don't seem horribly expensive these days, so it should be pretty easy to get one -- even if part of that other channel is wasted.

Maybe consider a USB PCI card that also has other stuff on it, like Firewire. Can't have too many Firewire channels either.

schalliol · Mar 30, 2003, 04:31 PM

Does the Apple module have any sort of antenna? Any results from a comparison betwen performance/reception on a machine with the module and one with the USB adapter?

TheMosco · Mar 30, 2003, 07:19 PM

get a usb 2 card. I have a 4 port from siig in my MDD and it fully supports deep sleep. i think it was 30 bucks and even though it doesn't list mac on the box, they have 10.2 drivers on their website.

JohnM15141 · Mar 31, 2003, 02:32 AM

Originally posted by TheMosco:
get a usb 2 card. I have a 4 port from siig in my MDD and it fully supports deep sleep. i think it was 30 bucks and even though it doesn't list mac on the box, they have 10.2 drivers on their website.

I just took a look at the Orange Micro USB 2.0 card. Very interesting, four external USB 2.0 ports and one internal port. This is an interesting arrangement, the internal port would be an ideal location for my Bluetooth Dongle. I may do this once I rule out the possibility of getting the Apple Internal Bluetooth Module.

TheMosco · Mar 31, 2003, 01:47 PM

Originally posted by JohnM15141:
I just took a look at the Orange Micro USB 2.0 card. Very interesting, four external USB 2.0 ports and one internal port. This is an interesting arrangement, the internal port would be an ideal location for my Bluetooth Dongle. I may do this once I rule out the possibility of getting the Apple Internal Bluetooth Module.

mine has that internal port too, i think all those usb 2.0 cards are 5 port. i forgot about that internal port. Thats a great idea, i don't even use bluetooth and i want to get an adapter to use that port, lol.

Leonis · Mar 31, 2003, 04:15 PM

Call me crazy but if I have a choice I will prefer a dongle.

Reason: Transferrable to other machines....iBook, Powerbook, PowerMac, even PCs

The module is too proprietary.

schalliol · Mar 31, 2003, 11:00 PM

Ok, someone with a dongle and internal port, do a reception test. I'm guessing outside will have better performance than in. Again, still wondering vs. the module.

TheMosco · Apr 1, 2003, 12:48 AM

Originally posted by schalliol:
Ok, someone with a dongle and internal port, do a reception test. I'm guessing outside will have better performance than in. Again, still wondering vs. the module.

but wouldn't the apple bluetooth module suffer the same thing since it is also inside the machine? does it have an antena?

schalliol · Apr 1, 2003, 01:03 AM

Possibly. My question exactly.

JohnM15141 · Apr 1, 2003, 02:26 AM

Originally posted by schalliol:
Ok, someone with a dongle and internal port, do a reception test. I'm guessing outside will have better performance than in. Again, still wondering vs. the module.

I didn't think about testing the performance differences between the Dongle and the Module. But after I read your post I realized I could conduct the test, I've got a 17" Powerbook with bluetooth built in and I have my Palm M515 with the Bluetooth SD card. I could turn off the internal port and plug the dongle into a USB port and test it using my Palm. But now for the bad news, I'm on the road(Currently in Hong Kong) and my USB Dongle is connected to the keyboard of DP1.25 PowerMac at home. I'll be home on the 12th and then I can try it.

Do you think the Bluetooth Module performance will differ between the PowerMac and the PowerBook? I imagine it will just by the nature of the design differences

geekwagon · Apr 1, 2003, 02:30 AM

Originally posted by TheMosco:
but wouldn't the apple bluetooth module suffer the same thing since it is also inside the machine? does it have an antena?

The internal module has an antenna wire that disappears somewhere into the case. I haven't traced it to see where the antenna actually lives.

geekwagon · Apr 1, 2003, 02:52 AM

I have a USB 2.0 PCI card with an internal USB port. I also have 2 different Belkin bluetooth dongles, one is the "Type 1" which has an antenna and is supposedly good for 100 meters, and one "type 2" which has no external antenna and is supposedly good for 10 meters. I usually have the antenna-equipped one plugged into the back of my Powermac and the smaller one in my laptop bag for use with my 15" Ti.

I tried all three, communicating with my Sony-Ericsson T68i phone. Here is my results, taking into account there were some residential style walls that the signal had to pass through whenever the range was larger than the room the computer was in:

Type 1, externally mounted: ~50 feet
Type 1, internally mounted: ~25 feet
Type 2, externally mounted: ~15 feet
Type 2, internally mounted: ~2 feet

Note that these just showed there was enough connectivity to allow for device discovery and for Romeo to publish its menu to the phone and actually work. At the limits of range the speed will suck and you will get lots of dropped connections if you were trying to use it to do something transfer intensive, such as GPRS internet access or PDA syncing.

The other thing to keep in mind is that even though the PCI cards have 5 USB ports, they actually only have 2 USB buses. So, data saturation might still be an issue but bluetooth is so dang slow I doubt it would be much of a problem in real life.

The other problem I see is that I don't feel secure in how tight the dongle fits into the port to keep it in place and preventing it from falling out and rattling around inside the computer. Especially for the heaver unit with the antenna.

dfiler · Apr 1, 2003, 09:40 AM

PCI cards for USB 2 are fairly cheap now and I'm sure you'd have use for the ports down the road...

However. (There always has to be a however right?)

You might want to research the cards a bit. There are sleep issues with non-factory-stock USB cards and hubs. It may not be possible for a bluetooth dongle to wake your machine from sleep when not plugged into the original USB ports.