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JKT · Apr 9, 2003, 07:20 AM

Available from the usual place (read the read me first, backup your prefs, etc) - rendering speed is much improved but many things are non-functioning. Also, you need a 4.x licence to run it:

OmniWeb 4.5sp1 Release Notes

Please send all feedback regarding a sneakypeek release to [email protected].

OmniWeb now uses Apple's open source WebCore and JavaScriptCore frameworks in place of (most of) the OmniHTML framework and our JavaScript plug-in which was based on Mozilla's SpiderMonkey project.

OmniWeb 4.5sp1 runs only on Mac OS X 10.2.x and requires that a valid OmniWeb 4.x license is present (it does not run in unlicensed mode).

OmniWeb 4.5sp1 contains the following changes compared to OmniWeb 4.2:

While this means that OmniWeb will render pages in much the same way that Safari does (since it is also based on WebCore and JavaScriptCore) we have made some important changes to WebCore, and some parts of the rendering process are done differently in OmniWeb than in Safari.

Known Issues

Since this is a very early preview release of OmniWeb 4.5 not all features are completely functional just yet and there are many known issues:

Navigating within forms is not yet fully implemented.

JavaScript error reporting is not currently working.

AutoFill forms is not yet implemented.

Support for navigator.accentColorName is absent so the StartPage doesn't work correctly under Graphite appearance.

History in frames is broken.

The Privacy preferences have not yet been completely re-implemented.

The "Run manually" applet preference is not respected.

Display/Colors/Fonts preferences have not yet been implemented.

Speech recognition has not yet been fully implemented.

The Source Editor does not recognize many tags and as such commands like "Reformat" do not work as they should.

Text selection is still not behaving correctly in all circumstances.

Many JavaScript preference settings are not yet respected (popups, error panels, debugging console).

We don't show all page resources in the Info panel sometimes; a reload of the page will usually correct this.

Resizing a window takes much longer than it should.

Animations sometimes display in the wrong place.

chris v · Apr 9, 2003, 07:26 AM

Post a link? My old bookmark for
http://www.omnigroup.com/ftp/pub/out...peek/releases/

is giving me a file not found.

JKT · Apr 9, 2003, 07:37 AM

Originally posted by chris v:
Post a link? My old bookmark for
http://www.omnigroup.com/ftp/pub/out...peek/releases/

is giving me a file not found.

http://www.omnigroup.com/ftp/pub/sof...X/.sneakypeek/

Font rendering has degraded badly IMO (not surprising as it is now using Safari's engine)... and what is it with MacNN forums that makes them use such a tiny font that can't be changed??

kovacs · 08:58 AM

Is this going to become another monster topic ? Let the posting begin

This still has a long way to go, lost of bugs, lots of sneakypeeks

... but shows promise, maybe it could become a big brother of safari some day, let's hope so...

Gul Banana · Apr 9, 2003, 08:54 AM

YES yes YES yes WOOT YAY YAY AYAY OMGWTFBBQ THIS IS GOOD
yay
yayayyayayyyyy

Ladies and gentlemen hold onto your hats for the Perfect Browser has landed; if you are not wearing hats then you'd damn well better BUY some just to hold on to. I ASSURE YOU IT IS WORTH IT.

*removes Safari and Camino from his Dock and hard drive*

The elation I am feeling is roughly equal to that of the Hebrew people upon their first sight of the promised land. There are probably bugs; the release notes are certainly full of caveats, but everything works and it works well and it works fast and it works with that beautiful interface that is the best of any application on any operating system, period. Excuse me now, I'd like to have some time alone with my browser.

BZ · Apr 9, 2003, 08:56 AM

I was just coming into the forum to post "Where the heck is OW 5.0"

This will shut me up!

BZ

cpac · Apr 9, 2003, 09:27 AM

Couple of things:

(1) It didn't inherit Safari's cookie problem preventing it from logging onto Westlaw.com successfully.

(2) It *did* inherit Safari's inability to keep spell checking turned on over different forms - that's a pain.

it's only sp1 though, so hot damn!!!!!!

voodoo · Apr 9, 2003, 09:28 AM

Soooo... have they ditched OW 5...?

Is it rebranded OW 4.5?

Or what?

BZ · Apr 9, 2003, 09:42 AM

So far so good...

Very fast on my 1 Ghz Powermac, and respectable on my 500MHz TiG4.

I am sure OW 5.0 is still coming with all the other options. I think this is OG's way of keeping up with Safari and seeing how it goes. From what I have heard, there is a LOT MORE in OS 5.0 than this engine.

BZ

chris v · Apr 9, 2003, 09:42 AM

Looks good, so far. Fixed a longstanding rollover problem, and CSS is working better. Text hover state finally functions.

Quicktime seems to be broken, for me. (no controls-- just a blank rectangle where they should be)

CV

cpac · Apr 9, 2003, 09:42 AM

my guess?

5.0 is still out there with it's own, better, rendering engine, but is still a ways off.

Rather than continue to loose ground to Safari & Camino OG decided to do a quick adoption of Webcore for 4.5 and take their time to make 5.0 what it really should be.

That said, even if they keep webcore for 5.0, the 4.5sp doesn't have any interface improvements over 4.2b2. There's no tab-like things (not that I personally care) etc.

So two possibilities:

4.5 = current features w/ webcore
5.0 = new features w/ webcore

or

4.5 = current/new features w/ webcore
5.0 = current/new features w/ new OW5 engine

BZ · Apr 9, 2003, 09:59 AM

OW 4.5 is probably just a try to see if Webcore is worth it. I don't think OG wanted to write their own HTML rendering engine, better to focus on features and other cocoa goodness.

OG writes great software. OW 4.0+ is/was behind the times and I am sure they are working on making it great.

That being said, it is a tough market to play in. Unlike OmniGraffle and OmniOutliner and the the games they port, there are a lot of good FREE browsers. OG is going to have to create something great for more people to stop using IE/Safari/Camino/Mozilla/Phoenix/Netscape and PAY for OmniWeb 5.0.

BZ

gorickey · Apr 9, 2003, 10:09 AM

A long way to go obviously; however, this is GREAT they are doing this. More power to them...

JKT · Apr 9, 2003, 10:17 AM

Originally posted by BZ:
That being said, it is a tough market to play in. Unlike OmniGraffle and OmniOutliner and the the games they port, there are a lot of good FREE browsers. OG is going to have to create something great for more people to stop using IE/Safari/Camino/Mozilla/Phoenix/Netscape and PAY for OmniWeb 5.0.

BZ

Conversely, IE/Safari/Camino/etc are going to have to get a lot better to stop me from paying for OW

I still prefer OW4.2 over them all even if they are faster. Once OW4.5 gets fully up to par features wise, it will have the features and the speed.

Is anyone else seeing really ugly font metrics though?

E.g.:

JKT · Apr 9, 2003, 10:19 AM

Originally posted by voodoo:
Soooo... have they ditched OW 5...?

Is it rebranded OW 4.5?

Or what?

As others are saying, it appears that 4.5 is a stepping stone to 5.0 - integration of the new rendering engine but absent the new GUI goodness. In all likelihood, 5.0 is still in the works with an even better feature set. Seems a sensible approach to me.

kovacs · Apr 9, 2003, 10:21 AM

Originally posted by cpac:
my guess?

5.0 is still out there with it's own, better, rendering engine, but is still a ways off.

Rather than continue to loose ground to Safari & Camino OG decided to do a quick adoption of Webcore for 4.5 and take their time to make 5.0 what it really should be.

That said, even if they keep webcore for 5.0, the 4.5sp doesn't have any interface improvements over 4.2b2. There's no tab-like things (not that I personally care) etc.

So two possibilities:

4.5 = current features w/ webcore
5.0 = new features w/ webcore

or

4.5 = current/new features w/ webcore
5.0 = current/new features w/ new OW5 engine

I think that's highly unlikely, why would they invest all this time and money switching to a new rendering engine ? Developing a new redering engine is a work of patience, just look at mozilla ( it took them a few years to develop a decent rendering engine ). Omniweb is a small company and they don't have the time or the recources to design their own new engine ( I know they did before but a lot has changed since ). They would be stupid not to use this new free rendering engine. I think the first possibilitie is much more likely.. first get webcore to work ( 4.5 ) and then get all the nice new goodies to work ( 5.0 ) ...

Gee4orce · Apr 9, 2003, 10:46 AM

Love it !

JKT · Apr 9, 2003, 10:50 AM

Originally posted by cpac:
(2) It *did* inherit Safari's inability to keep spell checking turned on over different forms - that's a pain.

I'm finding that the spelling checker works fine between sessions and at different sites...

cpac · Apr 9, 2003, 11:12 AM

Originally posted by kovacs:
I think that's highly unlikely, why would they invest all this time and money switching to a new rendering engine ? Developing a new redering engine is a work of patience, just look at mozilla ( it took them a few years to develop a decent rendering engine ). Omniweb is a small company and they don't have the time or the recources to design their own new engine ( I know they did before but a lot has changed since ). They would be stupid not to use this new free rendering engine. I think the first possibilitie is much more likely.. first get webcore to work ( 4.5 ) and then get all the nice new goodies to work ( 5.0 ) ...

Well, they've been at work on the new (OW5) rendering engine for a while (they started before WebCore was announced).

In addition, they get a lot of benefit from writing their own code, including better multi-threading, etc. - Most of these advantages were discussed in countless threads from a while back suggesting that OW just adopt Gecko, or more recently, WebCore.

Regardless of whether they're going to stick with WebCore, or use their own new engine (my personal hope) in 5.0, I think we can all agree that 4.5 is a great idea - keeps them competitive.

Plus, you gotta love that running the sp's requires a license. That's one good way to cut out the useless/obnoxious feedback from the people that would just bitch about there not being tabs, etc.

BZ · Apr 9, 2003, 11:23 AM

The license for the SP is a great idea.

Enjoying it ever so much. I miss tabs and I miss favicons in my bookmarks and toolbar.

I am sure OW 5.0 will have that and a lot more.

BZ

cpac · Apr 9, 2003, 11:25 AM

Originally posted by JKT:
I'm finding that the spelling checker works fine between sessions and at different sites...

really?

I've tried turning it on countless times for these forums and it always turns itself off, each time.

Hmmmm.

JB72 · Apr 9, 2003, 11:30 AM

While this means that OmniWeb will render pages in much the same way that Safari does (since it is also based on WebCore and JavaScriptCore) we have made some important changes to WebCore, and some parts of the rendering process are done differently in OmniWeb than in Safari.

Hopefully this means the KHTML team will get some input from Omni where appropriate.

Vanquish · Apr 9, 2003, 11:57 AM

Halleluja !!!

Tim2 at Omni · Apr 9, 2003, 12:36 PM

On the crappy font rendering/metrics:

Stay tuned during the coming days and weeks for *much* improved text rendering. Although it wasn't really said in the release notes, this is something that we are very aware of. You may notice that window resizing is very slow on some sites -- this is actually caused by the fact that we're recalculating font metrics every time we draw. This should be improved when we actually cache off font metrics after the first page render. :-)

Oh, and for those of you who like to use multiple browser windows, you may notice a bug which causes a big delay when switching between windows. I fixed it last night and it will be in sp2.

Sharky K. · Apr 9, 2003, 12:39 PM

nice to see a free update with webcore for 4.x users...

ratlater · Apr 9, 2003, 12:43 PM

Originally posted by Vanquish:
Halleluja !!!

My sentiments exactly. This is a wonderful surprise. For only an SP1 this rocks.

-matt

ratlater · Apr 9, 2003, 12:47 PM

Originally posted by Tim2 at Omni:
Oh, and for those of you who like to use multiple browser windows, you may notice a bug which causes a big delay when switching between windows. I fixed it last night and it will be in sp2.

I just noticed that little bug. Glad it's fixed.

Has anyone done any comparison performance tests between OW 4.5 and OW 4.2?

-matt

voodoo · Apr 9, 2003, 12:47 PM

So. Does it have tabs yet

Vanquish · Apr 9, 2003, 12:54 PM

So. Does it have tabs yet

I'll second that

.But, WILL they come ?

Sharky K. · Apr 9, 2003, 12:55 PM

Originally posted by voodoo:
So. Does it have tabs yet

OW 5 maybe... this 4.5 is just a .x update

Krypton · Apr 9, 2003, 01:57 PM

This is sure to improve as the sneaky peeks progress, but the build of 4.5 doesn't really *feel* much different from 4.1 - scrolling still lags a bit, although there is a bit of improvement. The only thing I noticed is the support for CSS rollovers on links.

The icon has a nice 'work in progress' pictogram on it though

Rickster · Apr 9, 2003, 02:01 PM

Rather than continue to loose ground to Safari & Camino OG decided to do a quick adoption of Webcore for 4.5 and take their time to make 5.0 what it really should be.

...

4.5 = current features w/ webcore
5.0 = new features w/ webcore

Congratulations, cpac, you guessed it right.

As the readme notes, there are lots of bugs we're aware of, including the font-metrics-gone-crazy thing. But we're making good time in working them out...

BZ · Apr 9, 2003, 02:05 PM

Sorry Rick, but I am gonna have to do it... (watching reports ask Donald Rumsfeld the same question over and over).

(in my best reporter voice)
Rick, so now that you have released a OW 4.5 SP, can you comment on the timeline for 4.5 final and OW 5.0?

Will OW 5.0 need 10.3?

BZ

Originally posted by Rickster:
Congratulations, cpac, you guessed it right.

As the readme notes, there are lots of bugs we're aware of, including the font-metrics-gone-crazy thing. But we're making good time in working them out...

cpac · Apr 9, 2003, 02:07 PM

Here's the press release that just went out to the OW mailing list:

Seattle, WA -- April 9, 2003 -- The Omni Group today released OmniWeb 4.2, an update to the web browser built exclusively for Mac OS X, and announced development on OmniWeb 4.5 - the first version of OmniWeb to incorporate the open source WebCore framework from Apple.

OmniWeb 4.2 adds a number of features intended to improve user experience and bring greater compatibility with web servers and Internet plug-ins.

OmniWeb 4.2 now supports the Macromedia Shockwave for Director plug-in and the PDF Browser plug-in from Schubert-it. New preferences allow you to better manage Internet and OmniWeb plug-ins and allow greater control over the process of downloading files. AppleScript support has been greatly improved including the addition of access to bookmarks through AppleScript commands. Support for ICC (ColorSync) profiles that are embedded in some images on the web has been added ensuring that users will see consistent colors when OmniWeb displays images with color profiles present. A new 'Send Link' function makes it easier to share the address of a web page over email and a new 'Zoomed Text Editor' lets you input large amounts of text into forms more easily. Support for the Shared Menus protocol has been added allowing other popular Internet applications such as URL Manager Pro to integrate with OmniWeb. OmniWeb 4.2 also features a number of updates and additions to OmniWeb's online help content.

The Omni Group today also announced that development of OmniWeb 4.5 is under way. OmniWeb 4.5 will be the first version of OmniWeb to incorporate the open source WebCore and JavaScriptCore frameworks from Apple Computer Inc., bringing greatly improved support for the latest Internet standards like CSS, HTML, XHTML, and JavaScript to the award-winning browser.

OmniWeb 4.5 - which will have the functionality previously referred to as being in 5.0 - will be available later this quarter and will be a free upgrade for OmniWeb 4.x license holders. The Omni Group is making early versions of OmniWeb 4.5 available through the Sneaky Peek preview program. Current OmniWeb 4.x license holders interested in testing and providing feedback on the application can download the first Sneaky Peek release, OmniWeb 4.5sp1, today from <http://www.omnigroup.com/ftp/pub/sof...X/.sneakypeek/>. OmniWeb 4.5sp1 will only run in licensed mode and a demo is not available.

BZ · Apr 9, 2003, 02:15 PM

I am now more confused.

So 4.5 will have features that were in 5.0? Like..? (posting this from 4.5 SP1 and not seeing any new features).

Webcore? Yes. Features?

BZ

Originally posted by cpac:
OmniWeb 4.5 - which will have the functionality previously referred to as being in 5.0 - will be available later this quarter and will be a free upgrade for OmniWeb 4.x license holders.

Michaelm8000 · Apr 9, 2003, 02:20 PM

Originally posted by BZ:
I am now more confused.

So 4.5 will have features that were in 5.0? Like..? (posting this from 4.5 SP1 and not seeing any new features).

Webcore? Yes. Features?

BZ

4.5 will have the new WebCore engine and the same feature set at 4.2. 4.5 will be a free upgrade.

5.0 is still comming and will have the new WebCore engine plus a lot of other cool new innovations.

pliny · 02:54 PM

Oh goody, I checked my inbox and found the 4.5 release notice. Will have to take it for a spin. It's good to see OW development moving forward and the return of the (sorta different) sneakypeeks.

Originally posted by Rickster:
4.5 = current features w/ webcore
5.0 = new features w/ webcore

Congratulations, cpac, you guessed it right.

As the readme notes, there are lots of bugs we're aware of, including the font-metrics-gone-crazy thing. But we're making good time in working them out...

Oh goody, I can still make use of the (obligatory: where the hell is OW 5?) from time to time.

Rickster · Apr 9, 2003, 03:17 PM

I am now more confused.

Sorry, the press release didn't quite make it clear. 4.5 will satisfy the goal we originally had for 5.0 -- a new engine with better speed and "full" web standards compatibility. But it's been renumbered to reflect that i'll be a free upgrade for 4.x customers. (We'll bring back unlicensed demo mode, too... requiring a license right now lets us limit our tester pool so we get a better signal-to-noise ratio in user feedback for the 'sneaky peek' releases.)

For the time being, the plan is to keep using our extensions to WebCore for 5.0. This way our engineers can work in parallel on the features for 5.0 and the engine for both. The engine that was planned for 5.0 may resurface in a future major release (that design still has several advantages over WebCore, particularly in the threading department), but for now it's on the back burner.

4.5, as the press release says, should be out later this quarter. 5.0 will be out "when it's ready".

This is sure to improve as the sneaky peeks progress, but the build of 4.5 doesn't really *feel* much different from 4.1 - scrolling still lags a bit, although there is a bit of improvement. The only thing I noticed is the support for CSS rollovers on links.

Clearly, you're just not looking at the right pages.

To name a few...

http://www.versiontracker.com/php/us...acosx&page=all loads in about half the time it does in 4.2. (Still a long time -- that's one big honkin' page.)
http://www.wired.com and http://www.espn.com actually work.
http://www.perversiontracker.com (and a bunch of blogs based on the same template) display correctly.
Wild tricks like Eric Meyer's complexspiral demo work too.

Font rendering has degraded badly IMO (not surprising as it is now using Safari's engine)

WebCore isn't responsible for text layout, just page layout -- it tells other code "draw this block of text at this position", and that other code has to lay out and render text within the block. In Safari, that code is in Apple's private WebKit framework. For us, it's in OmniWeb itself. So any similarities in text rendering quality are coincidence, not the result of using WebCore.

The text renderer is probably where the bulk of our engineering time on 4.5 has been going, and it's changed drastically several times already. In some of our earlier builds, you couldn't tell a difference between 4.2 and 4.5 at all on some pages (well, once the pages were loaded). But we found some problems with that approach, and we're finding some problems with the current approach too (and fixing them, as Tim2 points out). We're trying to strike a balance between pretty text rendering, speed, and compatibility. One of the great results thus far has been with right-to-left text: some Arabic and Hebrew websites display more correctly in OmniWeb 4.5 than in Safari.

By the way, we've been making some extensions and additions to WebCore/KHTML, too, which we'll be submitting back to the community. A few bug fixes, a few new features, and some additional standards compatibility. An interesting one thus far: I think OmniWeb 4.5 might be the first browser to support CSS2's System Colors... if you're running a third-party "theme", the Aqua stripes on our default start page are replaced by the theme-specific window background color/pattern. View source on that page to see how it's done.

chris v · Apr 9, 2003, 03:30 PM

One bug I've noticed with 4.5 sp1 (yes, I reported it). margin="0" doesn't seem to be working for pages built with a master table set to 100%. Tiles tile all the way to the edge, but images in a table have a page margin even when set to zero.

It's bolloxing up my new layout for my business site: http://homepage.mac.com/vgink/ (<-- mockup. No laughing.)

And here: http://chrisvreeland.com/FeedingTheMouth/Feeding.html

Also look at the top of Apple Insider Forums: http://forums.appleinsider.com/

(compared to Camino, I.E, etc. which display correctly)

CV

Anomalous · Apr 9, 2003, 03:34 PM

Well, it still seems lousy to me.

Safari - Safari engine that is almost fully functional, for free

OmniWeb 4.5sp1 - Safari engine that is largely nonfunctional, not free

ambush · Apr 9, 2003, 03:48 PM

So guys, I don't know.. but... should I buy a license? I mean are 4.5 sneakypeaks alone worth it?

Speed? Screenshots?

bpsmith · Apr 9, 2003, 03:49 PM

Safari - beta version

OmniWeb 4.5sp1 - preview release, pre-beta, etc.

I don't think it's time for direct comparison yet.

cpac · Apr 9, 2003, 03:49 PM

Originally posted by Anomalous:
Well, it still seems lousy to me.

Safari - Safari engine that is almost fully functional, for free

OmniWeb 4.5sp1 - Safari engine that is largely nonfunctional, not free

if the engine is all you care about, stick with Safari, at least for now.

OW's interface has been sufficiently superior to the other browsers that some users, myself included, preferred using it over Camino & Safari even before this sp1 release came out. It continues to be superiour, and now has the added benefit of a better rendering engine.

I'mDaMac · Apr 9, 2003, 04:07 PM

Originally posted by Anomalous:
Well, it still seems lousy to me.

Safari - Safari engine that is almost fully functional, for free

OmniWeb 4.5sp1 - Safari engine that is largely nonfunctional, not free

I agree. I DL'ed it, tried it, then trashed it. Omni is going to have to come up with something spectacular to earn a space on my dock.

I'mDaMac · Apr 9, 2003, 04:11 PM

Originally posted by ambush:
So guys, I don't know.. but... should I buy a license? I mean are 4.5 sneakypeaks alone worth it?

Speed? Screenshots?

Don't bother. I don't perceive speed to be that much better than 4.2. The interface remains unchanged from 4.2 as well (which is actually one of Omni's strong points).

ratlater · Apr 9, 2003, 04:18 PM

Originally posted by I'mDaMac:
Don't bother. I don't perceive speed to be that much better than 4.2.

You're kidding right? It's not quite as fast as Safari, but it's way faster than 4.2 on both my iBook and powermac G4.

-matt

m.brown · Apr 9, 2003, 04:23 PM

Originally posted by ambush:
So guys, I don't know.. but... should I buy a license? I mean are 4.5 sneakypeaks alone worth it?

Speed? Screenshots?

Go to the Omnigroup store - request a trial licecnce - 1 day - and then go to:

this part of macromedia's website

Scroll down to the bottom of the page to the "Additional Questions

How did you learn about the pirated software"

See in the upper right hand corner of the text field there is a square with a plus in it - click it - woah mama!

I love that effect.

Rickster · Apr 9, 2003, 04:45 PM

Yeah, we've noticed the margins bug, too... I think Ken and T2 may already be working on it.

So guys, I don't know.. but... should I buy a license? I mean are 4.5 sneakypeaks alone worth it?

I would caution against this. 4.5sp1 is barely-working pre-beta software, and I'm not sure you wouldn't be disappointed paying $30 just for it. (Well, actually, the license covers all 4.x releases, but you get the point...) Our intention with the license-required sneakypeek phase isn't to sell more licenses. It's to limit the tester pool so that everyone and their god isn't sending us email and posting to forums about how broken everything is (including everything in our listed "known issues"). A fully open beta would make it very difficult for us to manage bug reports and PR, but a small private beta pool wouldn't be good for testing all the web pages out there, so this is a compromise. In that sense, the sneaky peek is sort of targeted at existing license holders.

There's nothing preventing you from buying a license in order to join the sneaky peek program, though. And of course, there are plenty of good reasons to buy OmniWeb 4.2 (again, the license is good for all 4.x releases, 4.5 included).

So really it's a question of what your $30 is worth to you.

I don't perceive speed to be that much better than 4.2.

It's pretty early to judge that, I'm afraid. Much work still to be done on the WebCore-based engine.

solbo · Apr 9, 2003, 04:54 PM

Originally posted by m.brown:
Go to the Omnigroup store - request a trial licecnce - 1 day - and then go to:

this part of macromedia's website

Scroll down to the bottom of the page to the "Additional Questions

How did you learn about the pirated software"

See in the upper right hand corner of the text field there is a square with a plus in it - click it - woah mama!

I love that effect.

Wow, that is really awesome, looks cool and is highly functional.

I bought Omniweb when IE was the only other OS X browser that was usable. About 6 months ago I started using Chimera, and then Safari, both are far better browsers.

I love OmniWeb's features and interface, but it's rendering is abysmal. It is slow and its support for standards is pathetic. Not to mention it is the browser that crashes the most. I keep waiting for them to fix it, and maybe this will do it. But as it is right now I have barely used it for 5 minutes and it has crashed twice.

lawgeek · Apr 9, 2003, 05:02 PM

Originally posted by Anomalous:
Well, it still seems lousy to me.

Safari - Safari engine that is almost fully functional, for free

OmniWeb 4.5sp1 - Safari engine that is largely nonfunctional, not free

Sigh... I bet this is exactly the reason why companies are so hesitant to release public betas...