[::maroma::]

Apparently, Canadians hate baby seals. Can some of the Canadians on this board please enlighten me as to why this barbaric act is allowed? Oh wait, I know... money. Great. Good for them. Let's destroy innocent life in the name of the Almighty Dollar (or whatever Canadian currency is called). I just can't accept this as being OK. This is wrong in so many ways, it's disgusting.

(Forgive me if this has been posted before... I'm not very good at starting timely threads.)

[Vader�s Pinch of Death]

Sick, horrible and disgusting.

[olePigeon]

You're only offended because they're cute.

Do you have any idea how many "disgusting" animals are put through extinction every year? Animals critical to our ecosystem? Did you know that 90% (yes, NINETY) of our natural fisheries are gone; and you're crying about baby seals who are hunted under a controlled system, and certainly not to extinction?

Give me a break.

[Vader�s Pinch of Death]

Originally posted by olePigeon:
You're only offended because they're cute.

Do you have any idea how many "disgusting" animals are put through extinction every year?

Like what?

[::maroma::]

Originally posted by olePigeon:
You're only offended because they're cute.

Do you have any idea how many "disgusting" animals are put through extinction every year? Animals critical to our ecosystem? Did you know that 90% (yes, NINETY) of our natural fisheries are gone; and you're crying about baby seals who are hunted under a controlled system, and certainly not to extinction?

Give me a break.

I'm only "crying" (I suppose you could call that crying) about it because I read the article today, not because they are cute. Give me a fukcing break. I know full well there are atrocities to nature happening every single day, all over the world.

And this being a controlled system makes it even worse, in my book. How can this type of crap be so accepted that they create a system for it? Why not outlaw it altogether? It will still happen, but at least it will be illegal, and those caught would be prosecuted.

Don't try to negate the horror of this by using the argument that "there's more sh!t happening out there than you can even imagine, so why care?". That's copping out. You may find comfort in using that argument, but I don't.

Give me a break.

[angaq0k]

I think there are many good arguments against such a practice.

It looks barbaric, it looks violent, and the reward is is very low ($50.00 a pelt).

Newfoundland is also the poorest province in Canada, having to rely on fisheries that are more and more difficult to do because of quotas that are more and more restrictive to preserve the resource.

From this site: http://www.cbc.ca/stories/2004/04/12...eal_nfld040412

Newfoundland seal hunt starts
Last Updated Mon, 12 Apr 2004 15:49:34

ST. JOHN'S, NFLD. - Sealers are on the ice floes off the coast of Newfoundland and Labrador as the annual seal hunt opened on Monday.

An increase in quotas means 12,000 sealers can kill 350,000 harp seals this year.

The hunt means much-needed income for Newfoundland and Labrador during a traditionally slow time of the year, said federal Natural Resources Minister John Efford. Seal pelts sell for $50 to $60 each.

Markets for Canadian seal pelts include Norway, Denmark and China. The industry brought in $15 million last year. Canada also exports seal oil and meat, although demand for the latter is on the decline.

Ottawa says there are more than five million harp seals in the Atlantic and that hunt helps replenish cod stocks. It says the seals are not endangered.

Environmentalists and animal rights groups have condemned the hunt as barbaric. Some organizations have launched an advertisting campaign urging Americans to boycott Canadian products.

The anti-sealing campaign will be missing a high-profile member this year, however, as Greenpeace says it is focusing instead on issues such as genetically modified foods and climate change.

What I find difficult is that the meat will not be consumed on top of it. Harp seal meat is good, especially the liver, raw from the smoking carcass. I never had an opportunity to have any, but for the Inuit, it is an important part of their diet. Seal meat is actually an excellent input of Omega 3.

Actually, the way the Inuit have killed seals (they would not kill the younf ones though) is not that different; they use a gun and a spear, and have to knock the head of the seal as well sometimes.

Instead of boycotting all Canadian products, boycott all furs. Or ask yourself, who buys the fur...
On the other hand, remember that Harp seal threatened the fish stock that you need to either feed your cat, or yourself...

You can also have a look at how they "humanely" kill chickens and cows in your neighbourhood food processing plant. What you do not see cannot hurt you...

[olePigeon]

Originally posted by Vader�s Pinch of Death:
Like what?

Here's a list of 163 in North America alone, as of 2001.

An estimated average of 137 species are driven into extinction every day; or 50,000 each year from the depletion of rainforests alone. This includes vertebrates, invertebrates, and vascular plants. The reason so few people give a sh*t is because they're used to associating insects as pests rather than the backbone of our ecosystem.

As of 2003, there are over 12,000 species are at high risk of extinction, nearly all of which result from human actions. The Harp Seal isn't one of them.

[Logic]

Can you who are against this elaborate on why this is "disgusting" etc?

I'd like to know what arguments you use for being against this. Or is it just the Astrid Lindgren syndrome?

[olePigeon]

Originally posted by ::maroma:::
And this being a controlled system makes it even worse, in my book. How can this type of crap be so accepted that they create a system for it? Why not outlaw it altogether? It will still happen, but at least it will be illegal, and those caught would be prosecuted.

Because people don't want to give up their hamburgers and fried chicken.

Don't try to negate the horror of this by using the argument that "there's more sh!t happening out there than you can even imagine, so why care?". That's copping out. You may find comfort in using that argument, but I don't.

I care very much. But at the moment I'm fighting for legislation to protect our rain forests and the MILLIONS of species that inhabit it that are at risk of extinction, as well as unregulated hunting and slaughter of "game" animals that should be protected. The Harp Seal is in no immediate danger. It's like arguing for cows and chickens.

Plus, it'd be a lot easier to get laws passed for the Harp Seal once you start mailing letters out with cute little fluffy seal pups. Your average Canadian will vote against the killing of them in a heartbeat.

It's getting people to support protection of rats, cockroaches, and spiders. That's not something you can just send out a picture of. You have to get scientists, hard data, and what seems like limitless hours of field study, tests, and statistics just to get people to listen in the first place! People just don't vote for stuff like that. When they think of a spider, they think of the thing crawling across the table they have to smack with a newspaper.

[olePigeon]

Originally posted by Logic:
Can you who are against this elaborate on why this is "disgusting" etc?

I'd like to know what arguments you use for being against this. Or is it just the Astrid Lindgren syndrome?

That's what I'm wondering. I gaurantee that cows and chickens packed knee deep in sh*t aren't having a tea party. (And yes, I buy organic free frange beef, milk, chicken, and eggs.)

[JHromadka]

I think that if it's for population control to prevent seals from starving from lack of food or they become a menace, then why not?

Now if only we could have population control for humans

[brapper]

I'm pretty sure that the hunters they refer to are Native Canadians.
Not to justify it, but they allow the seal hunt pretty much because once upon a time Europeans came to this land and pretty much destroyed the way of life of the indigenous peoples. So this is how we, a couple hundred years later, make it up to them; we allow them to continue a cultural tradition.
It's their way and just because we took over their land doesn't mean it's right to stop them - though i'd love it if they would.
They're set in their ways, and this is a major source of their income. Natives are also subject to different laws which allows them to hunt in such a manner - and, again, it'd be wrong to move onto their land and then tell them what they can and cannot do.

oh wait......guess we pretty much already have.

[voyageur]

Originally posted by Logic:
Can you who are against this elaborate on why this is "disgusting" etc?

I'd like to know what arguments you use for being against this. Or is it just the Astrid Lindgren syndrome?

Well, from the article: 40% of the baby seals are skinned alive. That's pretty disgusting.
Also, observers have seen "seals whimpering in agony after being clubbed, and even though we begged the sealers to finish them off, they refused."

[angaq0k]

Originally posted by brapper:
I'm pretty sure that the hunters they refer to are Native Canadians.
Not to justify it, but they allow the seal hunt pretty much because once upon a time Europeans came to this land and pretty much destroyed the way of life of the indigenous peoples. So this is how we, a couple hundred years later, make it up to them; we allow them to continue a cultural tradition.
It's their way and just because we took over their land doesn't mean it's right to stop them - though i'd love it if they would.
They're set in their ways, and this is a major source of their income. Natives are also subject to different laws which allows them to hunt in such a manner - and, again, it'd be wrong to move onto their land and then tell them what they can and cannot do.

oh wait......guess we pretty much already have.

These guys are newfoundlanders. Idoubt there are many of the First Nations among them...

[Kilbey]

The thing that pisses me off most about the killing of baby seals is that the poor polar bears go with out such a delicacy.

I mean, can you imagine how good a baby seal must taste to a hungry polar bear and her cubs? I imagine the are pretty tasty!

Think of the poor starving polar bears. I wonder what they taste like.

I am being serious here people.

[nam_pog]

I'd eat one.

[Eug Wanker]

Canada Hates Baby Seals

What are you talking about? I'm Canadian, and I love baby seals. They taste great stir-fried with garlic and chopped chili peppers, with a touch of soy sauce.

[splatq]

Originally posted by Vader�s Pinch of Death:
Like what?

Go to the store and buy a can of tuna... Nearly every single one says "Dolphin Safe!" or "Caught With Dolphin Safe Nets!"

What about the f!cking tuna?

[angaq0k]

Originally posted by Eug Wanker:
What are you talking about? I'm Canadian, and I love baby seals. They taste great stir-fried with garlic and chopped chili peppers, with a touch of soy sauce.

Actually, they're better raw...

especially the liver.

[ThinkInsane]

Originally posted by Logic:
Can you who are against this elaborate on why this is "disgusting" etc?

It's disgusting because it's on the same level as killing whales...

[nam_pog]

Originally posted by ThinkInsane:
It's disgusting because it's on the same level as killing whales...

Whales. Yum! Almost as good as Elephant.

[vexborg]

Originally posted by olePigeon:
That's what I'm wondering. I gaurantee that cows and chickens packed knee deep in sh*t aren't having a tea party. (And yes, I buy organic free frange beef, milk, chicken, and eggs.)

Indeed they are not!

Slightly OT: How can beef, milk and eggs be free range? I've never seen a beef, some milk og some eggs running free around... Shouldn't it be called beef or milk from free range cattle - and eggs from free range chickens?

Strangely enough, here in Scotland highland cattle are not called cows, but coos (pronounced kyys)

And yes, I'm utterly bored at work!

[rjenkinson]

Originally posted by olePigeon:
Here's a list of 163 in North America alone, as of 2001.

An estimated average of 137 species are driven into extinction every day; or 50,000 each year from the depletion of rainforests alone.

137 species a day works out to 50,005 species a year. if 50,000 species a year become extinct because of the depletion of the rainforests, there are only 5 species in the world becoming extinct per year, for reasons not related to the rainforest. does this not sound odd?

also, that list you posted is of 631 species which have become extinct... but over the past 400 years.

-r.

[Logic]

Originally posted by voyageur:
Well, from the article: 40% of the baby seals are skinned alive. That's pretty disgusting.
Also, observers have seen "seals whimpering in agony after being clubbed, and even though we begged the sealers to finish them off, they refused."

I've seen those numbers before but they never publicize those reports. I think that is BS, since what benefit is it for the hunter to skin an animal while it is alive? It increases the risk of the skinning being unsuccessful and would therefore reduce the risk of the price of the pelt.

Also, as you should know, animals tend to be "moving" after sudden deaths. There is still some brain activity that results in spasms etc.

Then we have the problem of these words coming from organizations that use these hunts as fundraisers. They depend on making as "spectacular" reports as possible. I've seen the methods they use and they will never regain my faith in them.

For more about it, I suggest you try to find a movie called "Survival in the High North".

[Logic]

Originally posted by ThinkInsane:
It's disgusting because it's on the same level as killing whales...

Then I'm all for killing some seals

[lil'babykitten]

Originally posted by Logic:
Then I'm all for killing some seals

WHAT?!


oh....SEALS. Thought you said kittens.










I'M STILL ANGRY THOUGH!
bloody Icelanders.....

[Logic]

Originally posted by lil'babykitten:
WHAT?!


oh....SEALS. Thought you said kittens.










I'M STILL ANGRY THOUGH!
bloody Icelanders.....

I would never hurt the kittens. They are too cute.

So you don't have to worry, just don't stand to close to that seal over there : points and picks up rifle:

[lil'babykitten]

Originally posted by Logic:
I would never hurt the kittens. They are too cute.

So you don't have to worry, just don't stand to close to that seal over there : points and picks up rifle:

You'd kill one of these?

[mitchell_pgh]

Originally posted by lil'babykitten:
You'd kill one of these?

Yes.

In Pennsylvania where I grew up, hunting was very popular. So every year my father and I would go to our hunting camp in the middle of nowhere and hunt deer. I shot two in the four years that I hunted and then I stopped.

- The deer populations is larger then it has been in years.

- If they are not hunted, the herd becomes sick because the weak deer procreate making more sick deer. (because humans have driven all of their natural predators almost to the point of extinction - wolves and mountain lions etc.)

Would you shoot bambi?

On the flip side of that, I'm now a vegetarian.

[eklipse]

[voyageur]

Originally posted by Logic:
[B]I've seen those numbers before but they never publicize those reports. I think that is BS, since what benefit is it for the hunter to skin an animal while it is alive? It increases the risk of the skinning being unsuccessful and would therefore reduce the risk of the price of the pelt.

Skinning the animal while it is alive, but stunned and immobile, does not have any effect on the pelt.

Also, as you should know, animals tend to be "moving" after sudden deaths. There is still some brain activity that results in spasms etc.

I've had to kill my share of cats (sorry lbk!), rats, etc. in the laboratory and and know what you're referring to. That's not what we're talking about here.

Then we have the problem of these words coming from organizations that use these hunts as fundraisers. They depend on making as "spectacular" reports as possible. I've seen the methods they use and they will never regain my faith in them.

This is true, however, I think the mass clubbing animals to death for fur is not necessary. Leaving maimed and suffering animals behind is not humane.

For more about it, I suggest you try to find a movie called "Survival in the High North".

Never heard of it. I have seen clips of the clubbings however. Not humane, sorry. FYI, I'm not an animal rights extremist.

[mitchell_pgh]

Originally posted by voyageur:
Skinning the animal while it is alive, but stunned and immobile, does not have any effect on the pelt.


I've had to kill my share of cats (sorry lbk!), rats, etc. in the laboratory and and know what you're referring to. That's not what we're talking about here.


This is true, however, I think the mass clubbing animals to death for fur is not necessary. Leaving maimed and suffering animals behind is not humane.

Never heard of it. I have seen clips of the clubbings however. Not humane, sorry. FYI, I'm not an animal rights extremist.

I would argue that most people here have never been to a cattle ranch or a chicken farm.

Visit one of those, and you will think the baby seals get off easy.

[voyageur]

Originally posted by mitchell_pgh:
I would argue that most people here have never been to a cattle ranch or a chicken farm.

Visit one of those, and you will think the baby seals get off easy.

Yes, the factory farms are deplorable. We have a small organic farm nearby where I get meat and eggs. The animals there live a good life. I don't know about their deaths though. Out of sight, out of mind. My sister used to raise animals though, and described the slaughter procedure for small outfits. The pigs come off the truck, are herded up a ramp toward a small window into the slaughter building. Because they're intelligent and curious, they poke their heads in the hold, where someone is waiting with a bolt gun.
I don't eat much meat.

[Logic]

Originally posted by lil'babykitten:
You'd kill one of these?

Nope, I'd wait 'til it is no longer a lil'babyseal

I've never liked any killing of lil'babyanimals. I think it's idiotic since it will hurt the stock in the future.

[Logic]

Originally posted by voyageur:
Skinning the animal while it is alive, but stunned and immobile, does not have any effect on the pelt.

That is correct. But I wonder how the monitors(who usually stay on the boats) can say that the animals are alive. If it is immobile, stunned, and silent there is no way the monitors can see the animal is alive.

I've had to kill my share of cats (sorry lbk!), rats, etc. in the laboratory and and know what you're referring to. That's not what we're talking about here.

Never worked with cats but I've seen how rats and mice react. How do you know that is not what we are talking about?

This is true, however, I think the mass clubbing animals to death for fur is not necessary. Leaving maimed and suffering animals behind is not humane.

No I agree, and those who leave them behind should lose their license to hunt and be charged with whatever they can be charged with. And then we have the one thing that I hate when people use, the "I don't think it's necessary". Living here on Iceland I have seen first hand the effects of statements like that.

And one more thing, even if this is called being clubbed to death these aren't baseball-bats they use. The clubs have spikes(one big one most of the time) on them to make certain the seal dies as quickly as possible.

Never heard of it. I have seen clips of the clubbings however. Not humane, sorry. FYI, I'm not an animal rights extremist.

No, I agree that it looks terrible. But I don't think that is something that should be able to stop them from doing it. We should rather pressure them into finding better ways of killing the seals. Like I read somewhere that they will now use guns instead of clubs.

[Shaddim]

Originally posted by JHromadka:
Now if only we could have population control for humans

[Eug Wanker]

Originally posted by lil'babykitten:
You'd kill one of these?

Looks yummy!

BTW, I've seen that pic on lots of Canadian postcards. Must be advertising for the local restaurant industry.

[nam_pog]

Yes, I'd eat one, but now that I have seen that picture, maybe two or three. I'm not sure. Maybe, they are like potato chips! you just can't eat one.

[typoon]

What I don't get is the people talking about the poor baby seals. What about the poor fisherman who can't put food on his table becuase these cute little animals are eating up all his fish? What I don't think are going to kill them to the point of extinction just control the heard like they do with dear.

Somone mentioned something about polar bear. I don't think they can eat that many of these to help with the control of the population.

[mitchell_pgh]

I think my point was, don't start pointing to deplorable activities in other countries etc... when the end product of such activities are on your dinner plat (may it be cow, chicken etc.).

[mitchell_pgh]

It's also easy to condemn these people when you work a regular 9/5 job...

But I'd do it to feed my family (If I had one).

[Logic]

Originally posted by mitchell_pgh:
I think my point was, don't start pointing to deplorable activities in other countries etc... when the end product of such activities are on your dinner plat (may it be cow, chicken etc.).

[lil'babykitten]

Originally posted by mitchell_pgh:
I think my point was, don't start pointing to deplorable activities in other countries etc... when the end product of such activities are on your dinner plat (may it be cow, chicken etc.).

A very good point. But - inhumane, pointless killings of animals 'for fun' or for hunting, should not be allowed and needs to stop. Likewise, the disgusting conditions in which the animals we consume are kept, as well as the way in which conditions under which they are slaughtered, needs to be addressed.

It's all well and good to point out the inconsistencies in deploring seal hunting yet ignoring animal rights abuses elsewhere, but what is more important is taking action to stop such brutal treatment of animals in all areas.

[Logic]

Originally posted by lil'babykitten:
A very good point. But - inhumane, pointless killings of animals 'for fun' or for hunting, should not be allowed and needs to stop. Likewise, the disgusting conditions in which the animals we consume are kept, as well as the way in which conditions under which they are slaughtered, needs to be addressed.

It's all well and good to point out the inconsistencies in deploring seal hunting yet ignoring animal rights abuses elsewhere, but what is more important is taking action to stop such brutal treatment of animals in all areas.

True, but we should always start at home. Until your country has cleaned up your "mess" you have no right to tell us how to live our lives.


We disagree.

[nam_pog]

Originally posted by lil'babykitten:
A very good point. But - inhumane, pointless killings of animals 'for fun' or for hunting, should not be allowed and needs to stop. Likewise, the disgusting conditions in which the animals we consume are kept, as well as the way in which conditions under which they are slaughtered, needs to be addressed.

It's all well and good to point out the inconsistencies in deploring seal hunting yet ignoring animal rights abuses elsewhere, but what is more important is taking action to stop such brutal treatment of animals in all areas.

Animal Rights? Good one. They are here for us to eat, and I find them very tasty.

[Monique]

It is the way they killed them is totally disgusting if you have to reduce this population of seals at least kill adults not babies and be a little more humane.

Also, saying that other species are targetted is avoiding the issue.

[Logic]

Originally posted by Monique:
It is the way they killed them is totally disgusting if you have to reduce this population of seals at least kill adults not babies and be a little more humane.

Also, saying that other species are targetted is avoiding the issue.

Do you know how they are killed?

And I agree that it isn't too good to kill the babies but that has also been banned IIRC.

[awaspaas]

I'm all for Seal hunts!!

[lil'babykitten]

Originally posted by Logic:
True, but we should always start at home. Until your country has cleaned up your "mess" you have no right to tell us how to live our lives.

Oh, I'm sorry, I didn't know I had to keep my mouth shut if my country of residence happens to also treat animals badly.

I can disagree with how animals are treated wherever they are.

Originally posted by Logic:
We disagree.

Given that plane tickets from here to Iceland are really cheap right now, I'd watch it.

[lil'babykitten]

Originally posted by nam_pog:
They are here for us to eat, and I find them very tasty.

Indeed. But, we have a responsibility to deal with them in a much more humane way than we currently implement. Animals are not here for us to shoot at for pointless reasons i.e 'for fun' either.