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You are here: MacNN Forums > News > Mac News > Latest MacBooks drop Windows 7 compatibility in Boot Camp

Latest MacBooks drop Windows 7 compatibility in Boot Camp
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NewsPoster
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Mar 20, 2015, 06:09 PM
 
Apple's traditional zeal to push users forward extends even to its support for a rival platform, as the latest MacBook refreshes -- the new 13-inch MacBook Pro, 13-inch MacBook Air, and the forthcoming MacBook -- now require Windows 8 or later to work with Boot Camp, Apple's tool to create a dedicated Windows partition for users who need the compatibility. The company first dropped Windows 7 with the latest Mac Pro in 2013.

Until now, however, the company had continued to support Windows 7 as a supported option for Boot Camp in all other models released last year. The move has no effect on users who want to transfer their Windows environment to a new Mac but use virtualization software, such as Parallels, VMWare Fusion, or Virtualbox to continue to run other Windows versions. As with the move to eliminate legacy ports seen in the new MacBook, Apple ironically is pushing Windows users forward faster than even Microsoft. On Windows PCs, Windows 7 is by far the most widely-used version.

2015 MacBooks feature updated Boot Camp
2015 MacBooks feature updated Boot Camp


This is due in part to user resistance to Windows 8 and later implementations, which introduced significant visual and usage changes following the relatively-forced MS abandonment of XP support more than a decade after its introduction. Windows 7 itself is nearly six years old, with Windows 8 dating from 2012. By contrast, Apple releases a new (but free) point upgrade of OS X and iOS every year, though dramatic overhauls (such as those seen in OS X Yosemite and 2013's iOS 7) come along less frequently. The current versions of OS X and iOS (or, in the case of OS X, last year's version) are generally the most-deployed among the user base.
( Last edited by NewsPoster; Mar 20, 2015 at 11:14 PM. )
     
rexray
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Mar 20, 2015, 06:33 PM
 
I doubt the reason that Apple that is dropping Windows 7 support in it's newest laptops is because they are particularly zealous about pushing people towards Windows 8.x. It's more likely because Win7-compatible software drivers were not supplied to Apple for the third-party hardware (Intel, Broadcom, etc.) they are building in to their computers. If the third-party hardware manufacturer isn't supplying the drivers, then Apple probably estimates that it's not worth the rather significant software development cost to write drivers themselves for hardware they don't even make, for an older operating system that they also don't even make.
Earth is Heaven in Drag.
     
panjandrum
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Mar 20, 2015, 06:33 PM
 
It should be noted that this is probably just a "we don't support it" thing from Apple, where you can't create the installer or install the drivers automatically. Partitioning the HDD yourself and then booting from and installing Windows 7 may well still work fine. If not, search out Windows 8 shell replacements. Once you've done it a couple of times it's actually very easy to make Windows 8 work and look for the most part like Windows 7.
     
Charles Martin
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Mar 20, 2015, 10:37 PM
 
I didn't mean to seriously imply that Apple was pushing users towards Windows 8, sorry if I created that impression. I'm sure rexray's explanation is likely the true one.
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bobolicious
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Mar 21, 2015, 06:11 AM
 
...is this yet another tightrope walk for Apple between representations of sustainability & design innovation/excellence...?

W7pro at last check was officially supported by MS through 2020, and it runs a legacy XP mode allowing older hardware/software/training to be used over a much more sustainable lifecycle. MS is still offering paid support for even XP, which I gather is still being used by many large financial entities - the cost & logistics of ugrading being impossibly challenging...

https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/gp/lifepolicy
http://www.eweek.com/enterprise-apps...p-support.html
http://gcn.com/blogs/pulse/2013/09/x...r-a-price.aspx

To Microsoft's credit they actually HAVE a support policy for customers...

Is Apple's idea of 'progress' (annually for MacOS & shipping Apple hardware?) defining an environmental hypocrisy both in perception ('state of the art') & the parade of devalued or discarded (fully functional yet unsupported) hardware/software?

Additionally what is the induced collateral inefficiency in annual workflow revisions, uncertainty, additional training & associated (if opaque) embodied energies (staff, heat, light, resources) for such and the anxiety and hard & soft costs of such sunset cycling 'by design'...?

How many more 'upgrades' will be needed until the design is simply 'finished'?

This was the warmest year on record. Can the sustainability of our collective natural environment ever be truly served by the (sustainability of developers) approach of companies such as Apple...?
( Last edited by bobolicious; Mar 21, 2015 at 01:15 PM. )
     
coffeetime
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Mar 21, 2015, 06:13 AM
 
Perhaps it can be coming from Microsoft marketing department that pushes Apple to discourage the ability to install older Windows.
     
prl99
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Mar 21, 2015, 04:59 PM
 
The more I think about it, the more I agree with Apple's lack of continued support for installing Windows directly on Mac hardware. Why should they? The only benefit they get is selling a little more hardware to those PC users who want the best hardware to run Windows. Otherwise, it doesn't really make Apple any money. At one point, Apple was marketing Boot Camp as a way for Mac users to not have to buy a PC to run the few Windows applications they needed (primarily for work). Now that Macs have a larger piece of the enterprise pie, I don't see the need for it. Just run Fusion or Parallels for the one or two apps that don't have OSX equivalents. Apple doesn't have to spend any money to make sure the virtualization software runs under OSX and people still get the benefit of being able to run something their job requires, which usually is old software anyway. I'd rather see Apple spend their R&D money on Apple hardware and software instead of helping Windows users and Microsoft continue to meaningful.
     
panjandrum
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Mar 21, 2015, 11:52 PM
 
@prl99: You are missing a huge segment of the PC market: Gamers who like the Mac, of which there are many. Because of Bootcamp we can buy a Mac, without Bootcamp a Mac is absolutely out of the picture, period. VMs just don't work well for gaming. So unless Apple wants to lose a substantial market, they will keep making sure their hardware works with Windows.
     
Spheric Harlot
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Mar 22, 2015, 06:25 AM
 
Originally Posted by panjandrum View Post
@prl99: You are missing a huge segment of the PC market: Gamers who like the Mac, of which there are many. Because of Bootcamp we can buy a Mac, without Bootcamp a Mac is absolutely out of the picture, period. VMs just don't work well for gaming. So unless Apple wants to lose a substantial market, they will keep making sure their hardware works with Windows.
Your definition of "many" maybe slightly skewed.

There are not "many" gamers who play on PCs, and out of that fairly small number, a tiny subset will opt for the limited hardware choices presented by Apple.

Apple doesn't give a crap about gamers.

EDIT: boy, was I wrong.
( Last edited by Spheric Harlot; Mar 22, 2015 at 04:11 PM. )
     
panjandrum
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Mar 22, 2015, 12:10 PM
 
@Spheric Harlot: I guess I've come to the realization that there is little or no reason to respond to your posts as you seem to mostly be here for the sole purpose of disagreeing with "whatever you feel you wish to disagree with", whether or not your position has anything to do with reality whatsoever (i.e. Troll). But since you are so woefully inaccurate in your last post, and because others read this, I felt it deserved a correction: The PC gamer market is, despite your comment, huge. You believing that "there are not "many" gamers who play on PCs" does not make this true, it simply makes you wrong. That's OK, we are all wrong sometimes. It's part of being human. Most likely you have fallen victim to the misinformation often spouted by console-gamers (I also game on consoles, not just the PC, so I have no horse in that particular race) who are frequently slighted by things such as lack of mods or lower quality graphics. However, claims that most gaming is done on consoles is inaccurate. The PC game market is incredibly strong, and by many accounts growing stronger:

http://www.forbes.com/sites/marcochiappetta/2014/07/14/the-console-war-is-over-the-pc-already-won/

http://www.techradar.com/us/news/gaming/consoles/console-gaming-is-dead-everything-good-is-happening-on-pc-right-now-1260162

http://www.pcgamer.com/there-are-711-million-pc-gamers-in-the-world-today-says-intel/

And I'll leave it to you to keep googling as you wish, or not.

But yes, you are correct that a subset will choose Apple hardware. However, I DO work with a very large sample group (200+ users daily), and this group represents up-and-coming gamers to a fair degree (K-8 + Staff, plus a large additional sample from a much wider pool). Interest in Apple hardware, even among gamers, is high. See, they WANT Apple's software & hardware, but they also want a gaming computer. Right now, they can get that in a Mac, because even if they aren't the greatest gaming machines, many Mac models are are quite capable. And that's good enough for the majority of gamers (Personally, I run a home-built Windows gaming rig because I needed the power to push stereoscopic rendering via. Tri-Def, so no Mac would really suffice. But I'm on the fringe there for sure). But remove Windows compatibility? That will cut-off all of these potential buyers, and potential switchers. That's simply not a wise move considering the power of the PC gaming market.
     
mindwaves
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Mar 22, 2015, 12:41 PM
 
Somewhat related question, I own a rMBP from 2012 and perhaps want to install Windows 7 via VirtualBox. Where do I get the Windows 7 installation file/CD because Microsoft doesn't sell it anymore? I want to obtain it legally of course.
     
Spheric Harlot
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Mar 22, 2015, 02:27 PM
 
Panjandram:

Wow, I was obviously grossly misinformed. That is in fact a substantial market.

Thanks for setting me straight.
     
Grendelmon
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Mar 22, 2015, 03:21 PM
 
Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot View Post
Your definition of "many" maybe slightly skewed.

There are not "many" gamers who play on PCs, and out of that fairly small number, a tiny subset will opt for the limited hardware choices presented by Apple.

Apple doesn't give a crap about gamers.

You clearly don't have a clue. Valve's Steam community alone has more than 125 million subscribers. With over 4,500 available games.
     
Spheric Harlot
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Mar 22, 2015, 04:10 PM
 
Yep, I didn't. As you can see above, I know better now.
     
Mike Wuerthele
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Mar 22, 2015, 05:58 PM
 
Mindwaves - WIndows 7 can be found at Microcenter, Best Buy, and other retailers still.

Back on topic - this is more about Apple not wanting to write native Windows 7 drivers for the hardware than any snub of potential gamers, who I suspect won't look at Apple anyway, because of a real or perceived price difference. Additionally, the lack of a Windows 7 driver will be less and less a problem as time moves on, and as we've said, the new MacBook is a forward-looking machine in many things.
     
coffeetime
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Mar 23, 2015, 12:53 AM
 
My son uses hand-me-down Mac Mini to play his PC games on Boot Camp. 100% of his games are purchased from Steam (CD or DVD games are totally obsolete these days). His complains about Mac is that some of his favorite games aren't available plus some games lack features. So boot camp really comes in handy. VM is fine for me using MS Offices. For game play, boot camp saves me from getting him a PC (yuck). One thing to my surprise is game runs faster on boot camp than on native Mac of the same game title.
( Last edited by coffeetime; Mar 23, 2015 at 07:04 AM. )
     
bobolicious
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Mar 23, 2015, 09:09 AM
 
Indeed drivers may be the rationale, and so it goes... yet another reason to continue sustainably running my numerous existing mac hardware seats into the ground, rather than updating at least every few years to have access to Applecare, thus avoiding being worn out by Apple's arguably unsustainable & unpredictable support whims...

Anyone I've spoken to who uses W8 suggests it is to be avoided if at all possible...

http://www.macworld.com.au/news/boot-camp-for-latest-mac-pro-drops-windows-7-support-121370/
     
Grendelmon
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Mar 23, 2015, 10:52 AM
 
Originally Posted by coffeetime View Post
One thing to my surprise is game runs faster on boot camp than on native Mac of the same game title.
Usually because large production titles are seldom "ported" to run native in Mac OS X, but rather execute in an encapsulated layer called "Cider", whose roots come from Wine. I haven't kept up with which titles still do this today (for example, Sims 4 might be native). I gave up gaming on the Mac years ago and built a PC (with SLI) running Win7 + Xubuntu.
     
coffeetime
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Mar 23, 2015, 11:53 PM
 
Originally Posted by Grendelmon View Post
a PC (with SLI) running Win7 + Xubuntu.
Some serious configuration there. I don't think Mac can go this far (a nicer word for beyond reachable).
     
   
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