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You are here: MacNN Forums > Community > MacNN Lounge > Apple Copied MS's Expose Texhnology??? Yeah, Right...

Apple Copied MS's Expose Texhnology??? Yeah, Right...
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Ryan1524
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Sep 28, 2003, 09:34 PM
 
this is an abomination...


http://www.wininformant.com/Articles...rticleID=40367

"[Until early September,] Microsoft wasn't sure whether it would just demo Aero or supply it to PDC attendees," one source told me recently. But the decision to only demonstrate Aero was made because of the long delay between the PDC and Longhorn's final release, which is set for late 2005. If the company released all of its UI work now, its OS competitors--such as Apple Computer and various companies and organizations in the Linux camp, all of which have fewer customers and faster release cycles than Microsoft--would be able to clone its work before Longhorn releases. This problem has dogged Microsoft in the past, the most recent example being Apple's Expose technology, which will ship in Mac OS X 10.3 late this year; Microsoft has been demonstrating Expose-like technology for years now, but the work won't show up in Windows until the Longhorn release at the earliest.
wtf??? they not only copy apple but claim that they invent them first???
Ryan
     
todrain
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Sep 28, 2003, 09:46 PM
 
Just like Dell did... they had the first laptop with wireless support built-in... just ask Michael.
     
Eriamjh
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Sep 28, 2003, 10:06 PM
 
Expose is NOT technology, but a simple concept. M$ has copied hundreds of Apple's concepts, IF Apple has copied M$, then... what do you say... touche?

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Kenneth
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Sep 28, 2003, 10:08 PM
 
Did I see any negative article on MS from wininformant.com?
     
sniffer
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Sep 28, 2003, 10:38 PM
 
Microsoft has been demonstrating Expose-like technology for years now, but the work won't show up in Windows until the Longhorn release at the earliest.
Anyone heard about this before? It would have been nice to hear more about what they are referring to IMHO.

Sniffer gone old-school sig
     
Zimphire
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Sep 28, 2003, 11:31 PM
 
This is just a MS bootlicking site. Of course they are going to say MS invented it all.

     
mitchell_pgh
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Sep 29, 2003, 12:05 AM
 
Well, it's easy to have fast release cycles when you have a fundamentally secure and solid foundation. When you have to go back and fix a million or so lines of OS just to make it work, that is where it takes time...

This site looks so pro-M$, it makes me sick. Like others have said, even if Apple ripped this off of M$, just consider it payback.

It kills me that M$ has an amazing OS sitting out there, and they can't seem to copy it well enough...

good luck next time...
     
Xeo
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Sep 29, 2003, 12:20 AM
 
Some things I'm reading here are a little disturbing. People have said two things; 1) Apple didn't copy this! 2) If Apple did, it's OK because MS has done it many times in the past. Some are saying both in one breath to cover all the bases.

It just seems wrong to make either stance without proof either way. What are they talking about that Apple has ripped off? Is there any basis for it? Why haven't we heard this before? I am holding off my thoughts until we have proof. Taking a any position without more facts is just as bad as this website making claims they didn't back up.
     
sniffer
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Sep 29, 2003, 12:38 AM
 
Well said Xeo.

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oVeRmInD911
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Sep 29, 2003, 01:05 AM
 
I too am interested in seeing what this Microsoft Expose technology is all about. I've been following Windows Longhorn, and not once have I heard anything about it. Maybe I'll email them.
     
ZackS
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Sep 29, 2003, 01:23 AM
 
Why do Windows users need Expos� if they have the task bar?
     
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Sep 29, 2003, 01:25 AM
 
Originally posted by oVeRmInD911:
I've been following Windows Longhorn,
really offtopic, but what ground breaking changes does it claim to have ?
:: frankenstein / lcd-less TiBook / 1GHz / radeon 9000 64MB / 1GB RAM / w/ext. 250GB fw drive / noname usb bluetooth dongle / d-link usb 2.0 pcmcia card / X.5.8
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ZackS
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Sep 29, 2003, 01:42 AM
 
Originally posted by Ryan1524:
wtf??? they not only copy apple but claim that they invent them first???
This is probably the most biased source out there for Windows news. I mean, REALLY biased. MacNN said that 10.2.8 was a bad update. WinInformant would call it a catastrophic failure and the sign of a feeble, dying company. On the other hand, (fictional update) SP3 for WinXP, which erases hard drives randomly, would just be denounced by a bunch of whiners funded by opensource. Wait, what?

Look at this article from the same source.

http://www.wininformant.com/Articles...rticleID=40340
     
hunkhuang
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Sep 29, 2003, 02:18 AM
 
Microsoft generation is over, man ....
Apple's the future !


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sniffer
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Sep 29, 2003, 02:31 AM
 
Originally posted by hunkhuang:
Microsoft generation is over, man ....
Apple's the future !
Multi-platforms is the future, not monotheism.

Sniffer gone old-school sig
     
entrox
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Sep 29, 2003, 04:39 AM
 
Microsoft has been demonstrating Expose-like technology for years now, but the work won't show up in Windows until the Longhorn release at the earliest.
This has to be one of the most asinine comments I've ever read. What point is there in demonstrating some technology for years, releasing it even more years later on from now and then complaining about being copied, because other companies have a better software engineering process? Hah!

The magic word is "to deliver", not "to promise".
     
sanity assassin
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Sep 29, 2003, 06:13 AM
 
To play Devil's advocate here for a moment, but MS have got a large GUI R&D department which has demonstrated some really amazing technologies in the past; some of which make it into Windows, some of which don't. It wouldn't surprise me if they did have an Expose like thing working already, they've had Show Desktop for years.
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Krypton
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Sep 29, 2003, 07:27 AM
 
Originally posted by Xeo:
Some things I'm reading here are a little disturbing. People have said two things; 1) Apple didn't copy this! 2) If Apple did, it's OK because MS has done it many times in the past. Some are saying both in one breath to cover all the bases.

It just seems wrong to make either stance without proof either way. What are they talking about that Apple has ripped off? Is there any basis for it? Why haven't we heard this before? I am holding off my thoughts until we have proof. Taking a any position without more facts is just as bad as this website making claims they didn't back up.
I told a friend about Expose, only to be told that Windows XP already has a 'hide all windows off screen' feature. So there is some truth to the statement, but I would say Apple have improved upon it somewhat with tiling the windows
     
icruise
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Sep 29, 2003, 08:18 AM
 
I believe Microsoft has a history of "demonstrating" just about everything they can think of, years before it goes into an actual product, just to take the wind out of the sails of other companies who want to actually implement similar technology.
     
sniffer
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Sep 29, 2003, 08:31 AM
 
But it's not the "hide all windows" feature the article is referring to, it's something MS have been demoing (?) which might (?) show up in Longhorn. I am still confused what the article actually is referring to. It might be something in what you say Icruise. It might just be something that they have put on their brag-o-meter so they can knock on the table with it now and then.

Sniffer gone old-school sig
     
Millennium
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Sep 29, 2003, 09:42 AM
 
Originally posted by ZackS:
This is probably the most biased source out there for Windows news. I mean, REALLY biased.
I'd say it's tied with WinSuperSite for that dubious honor. It should be noted, though, that both of those sites are run by the same person.
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Millennium
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Sep 29, 2003, 09:46 AM
 
For more fun: our author claims that Microsoft demoed Expose-like technology back in early May, at WinHEC 2003. However, thus far I've been able to find no evidence of this, even in Microsoft's own archives.

Microsoft does have a very nice GUI R&D department. It's called Apple.
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Sep 29, 2003, 10:05 AM
 
Originally posted by Millennium:
For more fun: our author claims that Microsoft demoed Expose-like technology back in early May, at WinHEC 2003. However, thus far I've been able to find no evidence of this, even in Microsoft's own archives.
Expos� isn't a technology. I believe the author confuses it with Quartz Extreme. Microsoft demoed a Quartz Extreme-like technology in Longhorn, but only after Jaguar had been released.

Microsoft had done some R&D about hardware accelerated GUIs before however. I remember that 3D GUI project.
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Sep 29, 2003, 10:06 AM
 
Oh come on people! We know the real innovators are dell and microsoft!

Dell provided us the first notebooks with built in wireless technology, the first rebranded printers and monitors, the first laptops with built in bluetooth, the first wide panel laptop, and they were the first company to bundle computers with flatscreen displays..

They were also the first to officially ditch floppies!

Let's not forget window's 'leaf blowing' windows effects! We all need windows that 'swing' when we move them!
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GoGoReggieXPowars
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Sep 29, 2003, 11:48 AM
 
Ah, where's Kelly Hogan and his insane "QE will work on a Rage 128 I can prove it since MS did something not even closely related years ago here look at this video!"
     
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Sep 29, 2003, 12:35 PM
 
Originally posted by Millennium:
For more fun: our author claims that Microsoft demoed Expose-like technology back in early May, at WinHEC 2003. However, thus far I've been able to find no evidence of this, even in Microsoft's own archives.
Well, Apple had Expose in builds of Jaguar way back when it was being tested by developers. It wasn't what it is now but the idea was there.

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Sep 29, 2003, 01:21 PM
 
Originally posted by Millennium:
For more fun: our author claims that Microsoft demoed Expose-like technology back in early May, at WinHEC 2003. However, thus far I've been able to find no evidence of this, even in Microsoft's own archives.
I think I might have seen that demo, where they show windows flying about all over the screen to show off the window compositing engine in Longhorn. However, Quartz Compositor has been capable of similar effects since about OS X DP3 or something. I had a little technology demo showing off random transformations applied to window contexts using a private windowserver SPI back on 10.0.4.

The ability to composite windows on the fly, while spectacular, isn't the same as Expos�, which is a usability concept built on the underlying technology.

Edit: I just remembered that the MS rep in the video I saw said, while windows were flying about upside down and so on, "I don't know why you'd want to actually do this, but we're just showing you what it's capable of" or words to that effect; whereas the whole point of Expos� is that it's a deliberate usability device.
     
Angus_D
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Sep 29, 2003, 01:35 PM
 
Originally posted by Developer:
Expos� isn't a technology. I believe the author confuses it with Quartz Extreme. Microsoft demoed a Quartz Extreme-like technology in Longhorn, but only after Jaguar had been released.
You're confusing QE with the window compositor. QE just speeds up the compositor by offloading some of the work to the graphics card.
     
gerbnl
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Sep 29, 2003, 03:45 PM
 
Originally posted by Millennium:
Microsoft does have a very nice GUI R&D department. It's called Apple.
AH! A smile on my face!!!

thanks, Mil!
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olePigeon
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Sep 29, 2003, 04:45 PM
 
Anyone remember those old vector arcade games like Asteroids and Star Wars?

Yeah, hardware accelerated GUI.
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yg17
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Sep 29, 2003, 05:48 PM
 
I dont see why people even give a ****.

Technology is all about ripping off everyone else. Gateway, Dell, Compaq, HP, Alienware and many more PC makers ripped off IBM with the first PC. Creative, Apple and iRiver ripped of Rio, who I believe had the first portable MP3 player. Nintendo, MS, Sega and Sony ripped off the first company to make game consoles (Atari I believe). Chevy, Lexus, BMW, Pontiac, Dodge, Kia and many others ripped off Ford who had the first cars.

Why is it that no one complains about everything I listed above, but the second Apple steals one minor thing from M$ (if they even did, which I doubt) all these M$ fanboys scream bloody murder and pretend it's such a big deal? It annoys the hell out of me.
     
klinux
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Sep 29, 2003, 07:56 PM
 
Well, I can argue the reverse too but I LOVE when technology companies copy the good elements from one another. It ultimate boils down to good things for the consumer.

Who's going to argue that other carmakers copied the idea of seatbelt from Volvo?
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thePurpleGiant
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Sep 30, 2003, 01:18 AM
 
Originally posted by GoGoReggieXPowars:
Ah, where's Kelly Hogan and his insane "QE will work on a Rage 128 I can prove it since MS did something not even closely related years ago here look at this video!"
I nearly forgot about Kelly Hogan, now that was a fun time
     
DeathMan
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Sep 30, 2003, 01:36 AM
 
Originally posted by thePurpleGiant:
I nearly forgot about Kelly Hogan, now that was a fun time
Not a fun time. Hogan is back with an assumed identity, and disguised as a *gasp* woman! duhn duhn duuuuuunnnnnn.
     
OreoCookie
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Sep 30, 2003, 05:12 AM
 
Who cares what this M$ marketing puppet says. He's got no opinion of his own AFA computers are concerned. Wonder if he gets payed ...

He doesn't even say anything specific about M$'s version of Expos�. I haven't heard about it (and I read a lot about that stuff).
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as2
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Sep 30, 2003, 07:17 AM
 
Their comments on the iTunes are comical too...

http://www.wininformant.com/Articles...rticleID=40387

Unlike iTunes, MusicMatch Downloads also offers extensive information about artists and groups, and the interface is less Spartan and antiseptic than that offered by Apple as a result.
Apple's iTunes offers 128 Kbps AAC files...snip...MusicMatch, meanwhile, offers 160 Kbps WMA 9 files which the company describes as "CD quality." In my tests of the service, these files were indeed of higher quality than those downloaded from other services.
I thought that 128Kbps AAC files were CD quality!!
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olePigeon
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Sep 30, 2003, 04:37 PM
 
Originally posted by as2:
I thought that 128Kbps AAC files were CD quality!!
It's only CD quality if you're not a Windows zealot.
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