[Brit Ben]

A five gig MP3 player, late to market.
Hardly a revolutionary device.

Ben.

[str1]

Originally posted by Brit Ben:
<STRONG>A five gig MP3 player, late to market.
Hardly a revolutionary device.

Ben.</STRONG>

A portable, battery powered, 5 gig firewire hard drive that also plays MP3s and syncs like a palm. I don't know of any single device that does this.

I read this as less the introduction of an MP3 player as I do an attempt to merge different categories of devices. While it's not what I was hoping for, I think it's an interesting product.

Cheers
Scott

[shmerek]

It seems pretty lame to me. I would of loved to see a apple PDA

[Leonard]

Originally posted by shmerek:
<STRONG>It seems pretty lame to me. I would of loved to see a apple PDA</STRONG>

Actually, I just went and took a quick look at this thing. Could it be that Apple is going to turn it into a PDA eventually (or add PDA functionality)? The thing looks like a PDA and if the screen was a little bigger... they could have a nice MP3 Player/PDA. I would imagine it wouldn't take too much too add a Contacts List with phone numbers, a Calendar, etc... and have this sync with your Mac.

Yes, it is an interesting product but it missed the boat! I don't believe that there's a big market for iPod especially at that price point. iPod is definitely off the mark!! Apple, get your act together!! I'd like to see the market research for this product!

AO

[DNA man]

Apple has poor market research for this new product. If they read the boards, they would know we wanted a Newton like PDA device. Besides, iPOD is not a good name for a MP3 player. More over Intel has ipod (intel phone over data) for telephones as a trade name long before Apple introduced iPOD. I fear Apple might get into trouble.

Other stuff is that the PC market might not be ignored. FW is coming to PC and maybe iPOD will be PC friendly at some point in the future.
But the final word is that there is lots of other stuff $400 will buy you.

[Proxi]

It�s really too late for just another mp3 player.

Napster is dead
CDs will by copy protected in the very near future
Cell phones will act as mp3 players
PDAs will act as mp3 players

I�m sorry but this one is dead on arrival and should be called idoa

[k2man]

I've heard a lot of complaints about the iPod, but the only one that's justified is its price point.

Some people are determined to see it as a slightly better Mp3 player. I don't think so: a 5 gig hard drive with fast Firewire xfer, rechargeable batteries and a tiny form factor (not to mention really intelligent integration with iTunes) makes this a GREAT product as far as MP3 players go. The iPod is to Mp3 players as the Mac is to other computers (ie, it introduces new technology to the genre, it's elegant, it's cleverly designed, etc.).

But I do agree that a $400 price tag is going to be hard for most people to swallow, especially in this economy. If the iPod was $200-$250, I think it would be a great addition to Apple's digital hub line up. I bet Apple cuts the price quickly, even before Xmas, but it's unfortunate that it will be seen as a loss of face a bit...

We'll see...

By the way, PDAs and cell phones that play MP3s don't come close to cutting it for people that listen to music a lot. 64 megs of RAM, which is the most memory you can expect from one of those devices, is not a lot as far as Mp3s go, and the phones and PDAs that offer that kind of ram are about $500. Someday, there will be a device that integrates Mp3s, PDA functions, and a cel phone, but its still a way's off, and a mass market likes things cheap, and is often willing to buy devices that focus on one thing, if it does it well...

[cpt kangarooski]

Really? What about the fact that it's not compatable with the vast, vast, vast, majority of computers out there? Or mp3 playing software? Or that it's not waterproofed? Or that it has a very limited, rather modal UI? Or that it's a dumb device when plugged into a computer, instead of an iTunes remote control, or (I suspect) a working sound out for the headphones you've already got plugged into it? What about the lack of options, e.g. bigger/smaller HDs, RAM, etc? What about the possible problems with recharging off of a laptop battery?

I can probably come up with more.

Price is a big one though, you're right. I might buy a $50 mp3 player, particularly if I can add parts to it over time to make it more powerful. I don't think that little thing is worth half to a third as much as an iMac.

[Mac Guru]

My point to people all day is, this product is a flop... Apple is marketing a grossly overpriced 5GB MP3 player to a Niche audience...

Hmmmm lets do the math.. a niche product to a niche audience = teeny profit margins.

Now if Apple pulls it head out of it's butt on this idea and develops a way for PC's to use the iPod as user friendly as us Mac users, and lowers the price by at least $150, I could see the iPod's profits increasing... until then it's just another expencive MP3 toy.

Mac Guru[/LIST]

[Boondoggle]

Hmmmm lets do the math.. a niche product to a niche audience = teeny profit margins.

wrong. B2 bombers are niche product to a single customer. Big profit margins. Low volume.

Margins are (essentially) a measure of the difference between how much you sell something for and how much it costs to produce. They have nothing to do with Volume, which is a measure of how many units are sold.

It's a shame that Apple doesn't have market awareness and released that yet again, has "missed the boat" before spending R&D, time and money on creating this now-novel audio device. You'd think they would've learnt from omitting CDRW drives from their machines a few years ago. Sure, it's got the largest capacity for it's size-class on the market, but I don't think that's enough to be called "revolutionary", albeit something which could even attempt to steal thunder from MS's XP release this week.

All I can say is that I'm really disappointed. So much hype and anticipation that it was hardly "groundbreaking", moreso "heartbreaking". Actually I'd like to know how they could sensationalise such a product which is hardly new, apart from the "add-on" technologies such as internal hard-drive (which I'm assuming is a 2.5" Travelstar or similar - is it robust enough to the impact of everyday bumps and knocks, even the occasional drop?) and the FireWire connectivity. I almost see it as re-inventing the wheel. But by the time it hits our shores, the pricing will be around $1000 Australian, which is enough to steer me away from it.. And I'm fairly sure most people would feel the same. If I want a device that will play more than your average 64Mb unit, I'd buy one of those MP3-playing CD units that although aren't as hand-savvy as the iPod, they don't damage the hip pocket so much. It also won't be as sexy as an iPod, but then again, I sometimes think we're being lured and brainwashed to pay for "form" over function: "Sure, it was expensive to buy, but it's made by Apple."

How about inbuilt equalisation and/or bass enhancement - can you customise the sound? Is there a belt-clip on it so you don't have to carry it around like a colostomy bag? Wait a minute, I believe colostomy bags attach to your belt or somewhat.

We need to tell Apple about our disappointment. Email Alicia Awbrey ([email protected]) whom is the contact for the iPod, amongst other things.
Let them know of our disappointment because I sometimes wonder where they listen to us at all. I'm wondering what this will do to their index..

A total mis-market.

If this device has FireWire, is there any possibility that while connected to your Mac, it could charge the batteries from the voltage off the bus?

[kai64]

It's a BMW version of mp3 player. If you want to buy a Hyundai there are a lot of those out there. And Apple shouldn't wast their time on it. Cool... I can hear the Wintel people say "can we copy it". I will love to have one!

[Nebrie]

Originally posted by &lt;not an iPod fan&gt;:
<STRONG>If this device has FireWire, is there any possibility that while connected to your Mac, it could charge the batteries from the voltage off the bus?</STRONG>

Yes, it charges while it syncs.


This is not just another "me too" player. Apple could have done that and made it real cheap. If you want one with USB, larger size, hard disk, guess what! It already exists! Apple isn't going to try to compete with them. If you want the ipod, buy it. If you want a cheaper one with usb, go buy the ones that are already out.

The iPod is a great product. Yes, it's pricey. But you guys seem to be not justifying some of it's features. It has a ten hour lithium battery. It uses firewire! I mean geez, do you know how much longer it takes to transfer mp3's via USB? And as you know, it can charge through the firewire bus. It charges freakin fast. It can charge from 0% power to 80% in an hour! Meaning 0 to 8 hours of a charge in an hour And 100% charge in 3 hours. It's small of course. It can be used as a hard drive to store other files or apps. And I heard you can update it's firmware which gives it more potential to be better in the future.

Other than the price and capacity I don't really have any complaints.

How could it have a 2.5" Travelstar drive in it? It isn't even 2.5" wide.

The smallest Travelstar is 12GB, BTW, and it is 100.2mm x 69.9mm by 9.5mm. The iPod is 5GB and is 102mm x 61.8mm x 19.9mm. The Travelstar weighs 99g, an iPod weighs 185g.

So, the iPod not only wouldn't have much space left over for the display, wheel, battery and actual MP3 player, but its actually 8mm smaller than a Travelstar in one dimension and only 2mm longer in another, not even enough space for the headphone jack on the end, which is about 5mm long.

No, I would say that no one could make an MP3 player as small as the iPod with a 2.5" drive in it.

[Shekwan]

Originally posted by &lt;travelstar&gt;:
<STRONG>No, I would say that no one could make an MP3 player as small as the iPod with a 2.5" drive in it.</STRONG>

A 2.5" drive wouldn't be too large, that's iPod who's too small. Without that pricey Toshiba 1.8" HD it would be as cool and far more affordable, they could make the device 10% larger. Why is it so slim, what's the point, a bet with M.Dell ???

[k2man]

To all the people complaining that the iPod doesn't work with a PC: hmmmmm......that's exactly the point, isn't it??

It's a move that may limit sales for the iPod, but is also likely to **increase** sales for the Mac in the long run. Remember, Apple isn't in the business of selling random devices to anybody that will buy them. It's in the business of growing the **MACINTOSH PLATFORM** as a whole, and to do that, it has to figure out ways to make the Mac **uniquely** attractive to people.

Products like iMovie, iTunes, iDVD and Final Cut (I hope to see an 'iPhoto' added to that list soon, by the way) are all part of that strategy. Could Apple sell more software by making these products available on the PC? Of course. Would that help the Mac overall? No, it would hurt it.

Anyway, the iPod is just another product that Apple hopes will contribute to people saying "wow, I can do all these cool, unique things if I get a Mac". This isn't going to happen overnight, it's going to take more unique products, constant cutting-edge updates to existing products, and more marketing before these Mac advantages really start to sink in with consumers. So iPod is just a step, but it's a step in the right direction (and I hope it does well once there's a price cut).

[KellyHogan]

Until the price goes way down, this is the new Cube.

[cpt kangarooski]

Mm, yeah, a 2.5" drive would be a far, far better option... As would a slot for some kind of NVRAM, for users that don't even want to go with an internal drive, or who would prefer to add it later. (or just want to increase the buffer time... whatever)

The marginal increase in size would be _far_ worth the tradeoff in price. This must be acknowledged -- if size were really the most overriding concern, and I'm not saying that it isn't a factor at all, then a few insanely expensive NVRAM chips could've been used instead in a form factor half that size. But of course, they'd only be bought by the crowned heads of Europe.

Apple is committing its normal stupid mistakes: it is trying to achieve excellence in an area that does not matter significantly, and which has more drawbacks to it than benefits. More than ever, I can really believe that Steve is at the helm. Remember, this is the guy who insisted that the NeXT cube be a _perfect_ cube, which was far more expensive and difficult to make than a cube that was imperceptably imperfect. He does that kind of thing a lot, in fact, from what I've been led to believe.

As a 'gateway' to the Mac, it's a flop. Remember, no one is going to justify purchasing approximately $1600 worth of gear JUST to listen to MP3s on their way to work. $400 is already too much. I'd shoot for $100, at least for something stripped down. As long as it is a Mac-only device, it will sell to 1) Mac users, which wasn't the objective of this endevor and 2) People with money burning holes in their pockets, which is an even smaller subset of the population. Apple would have to have ASSLOADS of unique things to pull this off, and they simply do not have time to screw around like that. Especially as the iPod isn't significantly different from other devices, and is eminently duplicatable by other manufacturers, probably at a fraction of the cost. You will recall this knock-off of the Mac that got rather popular? Here, not only is Apple late to the game, but you will see the same end result if they maintain this course.

[ntsc]

I'm curious, what other devices do what the iPod does? The only one that comes remotely close that i know of is the Creative Jukebox but that doesn't use Firewire, it doesn't sync with a Mac in the same way and it doesn't look as cool.

OK this isn't exactly "breakthrough" (but we all knew that was marketing hype the right) but it is impressive if expensive. The money is just Apple, you know Apple doesn't sell things cheap (iMac, PBG4 - thats not exactly breakthrough but it sells bloody well).

To those of you who wanted a PDA - forget it! We've been through this 100 times before - Apple has said they won't release a PDA this market is not one i would be happy to see them enter particularly at this time!

Finally i think that some of you are just annoyed cos your prediction didn't come to true! Perhaps if this is a success other devices will follow remember QuickTake (it was a digital camera).

Marginal increase in size? Did you see the pics on Tech TV? The current drive is the size of a PCMCIA card. A Travelstar is about the size of an iPod. The unit would more than double in size if you switched to 2.5". That's not a marginal increase.

It would be the size of an Archos, which is far from marginally larger.

[Shekwan]

Doh, you're right

Apple iPod
--------------
Height19.9 mm
Width 61.8 mm
Depth 102 mm
Weight: 6.5 ounces (185 g)

Toshiba 1.8-inch hard disk drive
----------------------------------------
Capacity (Gb) 5
Height (mm) 5.0
Width (mm) 54.0
Depth (mm) 78.5
Weight 1.94ounces

IBM Travelstar 20GN
--------------------------
Capacity (Gb) 20
Height (mm) 9.5
Width (mm) 70.0
Depth (mm) 100.0
Weight (g) 99.0

[MichaelB43]

Originally posted by Brit Ben:
A five gig MP3 player, late to market.
Hardly a revolutionary device.

Ben.

I did a search trying to find information about the new Contribute 2.0 and iPhoto, and the search came up with this post. Even though it was completely off topic, I started looking at it and found it very interesting. Looks like a lot of people thought the iPod would be a flop...

[scottiB]

Heh, I can't say I disagreed with some of the points above two years ago.

Thank God, I don't run Apple.

And Thank God, I bought an iPod.

[tr]

hahaha...what a great throwback to 2001. my favorite:
It�s really too late for just another mp3 player.

Napster is dead
CDs will by copy protected in the very near future
Cell phones will act as mp3 players
PDAs will act as mp3 players

I�m sorry but this one is dead on arrival and should be called idoa

and two years later, napster is back, CD copy protection...well, they are still trying to get them to work (an to not be foiled), and cell phones and PDA's seem to have merged; and now, what we have left seems to be a market for large capacity mp3 players...go figure.

tr

[kovacs]

i believed in the iPod the very first minute I saw it. I bought a first generation iPod in the US ( criminal difference in price ) and never looked back...

My first gen iPod is still working but the battery is almost dead, I bought a second gen iPod on my next visit to the US ( on week before the introduction of the 3rd gen damn it )

[Footy]

Thanks for bumping this... pretty funny.

Do a search for iMac and look at some of those early post. Boy we've come a long way.

[chrisutley]

They all probably own iPods now.

I was quite smitten with the thing from the start. I didn't expect it to be as popular as it is, but I have bought 3 since and loved them all.

[olePigeon]

Give him a break, he's Canadian.

[Sosa]

Nice to read this. It puts Apple ideas and products in perspective: people are always doubting Apple, and yet 3/4 of their products succeed. My father for one has been stating Apple was going to go bankrupt since the mid 90s and yet Apple is still alive and kicking!

For myself, I though the iPod was an awesome idea and I was a first generation purchaser. Those $400 I spent really hurt though when I lost the damn thing 4 months later! I was depressed for several days.

Then again, I also thought the cube was a great idea. (Well come to think of it, I still do).

I would like some of the negators above to post now and tell us what they think about the market leader iPod.

[Eug Wanker]

Heh great thread!

Actually, I LOVED the iPod when it came out. I knew it would be a hit, but I didn't quite realize to what extent. Wow, the iPod has done well.

Anyways, I finally gave in and got one of the 15 GB 3G ones a few months back. It rocks.

[icruise]

This reminds me of a thread I posted in the lounge a bit ago.

I don't think I ever was in the "boy this is a dumb move for Apple" camp, but I must admit that I didn't understand the true wondrousness of the iPod right off. But I got one a month or two after they came out and was quickly hooked. New iPod software and new versions of iTunes have made them even better.

[MichaelB43]

What the hell does Dell do? They don�t design their own motherboards,
don�t design their own processors, and don�t design their own operating
system. Apple has a Grammy and an Emmy to show for their hard work,
what does Dell have? [/B]

Money. Lots of it. What they do is pretty amazing actually, and it has everything to do with efficiency in assembly and shipments. If you visit their facility and read about how it works, it is nothing short of amazing. Even though it isn't all that exciting to the average consumer, what they have done in this space is as innovative as what Apple has done from a product standpoint. Now that Dell is getting into consumer electronics (PDAs, TV's, MP3's, etc.), expect to see some level of success in the mass market - due to the same manufacturing and shipping efficiencies that have made them so succesful in the PC market.

It's easy to discount Dell because the innovation isn't really something the average consumer can touch, feel or even comprehend in many instances. Apple's innovation is something you can really grasp...literally.

[Stogieman]

Originally posted by MichaelB43:
I did a search trying to find information about the new Contribute 2.0 and iPhoto, and the search came up with this post. Even though it was completely off topic, I started looking at it and found it very interesting. Looks like a lot of people thought the iPod would be a flop...

Hahaha, you beat me to it! I was going to wait until the 2nd anniversary of the iPod introduction before I bumped this thread. It's quite funny seeing all of the responses.

[DaedalusDX]

so much negativity back then! Who knew that Apple wasn't just striking at a niche when they made the iPod? their attention to detail, sense of style, and skill in ease of use design really struck a chord with music lovers everywhere...

and 2 years later, iPods are still rocking the house.

[businezguy]

I wasn't really paying attention to the Apple market when the iPod was first released. Still, I think I would have been one of the skeptics if I were around. It did seem like an extremely expensive product for what it does. In fact, it is. It's also cutting edge technology.

My biggest selling point for the iPod was it's integration with iTunes. It's so easy to organize and transfer lists of songs to the iPod. Mix and transfer really was the great feature of the iPod, along with it's small elegance.

[michaelb]

LOL at this zombie thread!

It does say a lot about the Mac gurus who hang around the forum doesn't it.

If I was feeling nasty I'd write something like "...with their heads so far up their opinionated a**es they can't recognize an innovative idea when they see one..." but I'm not so I won't.