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-   -   Why don't we have a folding rig donation system? (http://forums.macnn.com/72/team-macnn/213619/why-dont-we-have-folding-rig/)

 
Zimmerman May 19, 2004 11:17 AM
Why don't we have a folding rig donation system?
Over at the Extreme Overclockers F@H group, they have a donate-a-rig system where people will donate parts or a whole system to the club to be turned into a folding rig. Then a host will be selected based on numerous criteria that will provide a roof, basic tech support, and power for the rig which will do nothing but sit and fold.

I think it might be a good thing if MacNN started a similar initiative. I'm sure many of us have older components which could make quite a few folding rigs. For more info on what I'm talking about check out: http://forums.extremeoverclocking.co...ad.php?t=79657

I say lets get this going! Who cares if it's easier to cobble a decent PC system together than it is a Mac system. We're not doing this for Team OSX, we're pulling for MacNN community!
 
Scotttheking May 19, 2004 11:29 AM
Are you volunteering to plan and run it?
 
Zimmerman May 19, 2004 11:35 AM
I might be open to that. It'd be a simple matter of simply duplicating an already sucessful and efficent system implemented somewhere else (EOC). Unfortunatly, I'm kind of new to Team 16 Folding and am not what you'd call an old hand here at MacNN with one of those monster post counts so I don't know if I'm entirely qualified for the job.

I understand what you're saying though. The reason it hasn't been started up is that there isn't anyone with time enough to coordinate it.

*waves hand*
 
reader50 May 20, 2004 02:08 AM
Interesting idea. I could power a box or two myself during winter, not sure about summer. It gets hot here in CA, and the electricity goes up in summer too.

My parts bin includes a couple older SCSI HDs in the 80-120 MB range and an old Mac ixMicro vid card. Somehow, those do not sound like the right parts...
 
Scotttheking May 20, 2004 02:18 AM
Parts list:
16MB AGP mac video card
some PC66 ram
old PC AGP video cards
10 base NIC
I've got some tbird 1.2 and mobos, but I'm only selling those, not giving them away
There's probably other stuff

New I can get xp2200 and mobo to xp2600 and mobo (depends on the deal of the week) for $60 to $100. Mobo comes with onboard NIC, and doesn't need a video card to boot.

I'm also decent with linux, and know how to setup a box to crunch.
 
Shaktai May 20, 2004 03:04 AM
I'll have to dig some. Might have an Athlon 1900, and fan or two. May still have an extra network card.

(Note to self. Time for spring cleaning, get rid of the junk so you can see what you have).
 
OneMacGuy May 20, 2004 09:27 AM
I have a ton of "spare" parts like:

dozens of NIC cards
lots of old PCI video cards
many old CDROM drives
LOTS of older 2-10 GB hard drives
some older PC66-PC133 Memory in smaller size DIMMS (16, 32)
floppies
cables in great abundance of all types
some odd CPU's, old celerons and AMD K6/2's
SCSI cards
sound cards
keyboards, mice
many old Macs: 3-7500's, 3 - 6500's

Most any of it can be had for the asking for a deal like this.

I also have the follwing for sale cheap:
One 7500 upgraded to a 500 Mhz G3, One beige G3 upgraded to a 466 G3.
 
Zimmerman May 20, 2004 10:54 AM
Outstanding.

There are a ton of coordination detail that need to be worked out. Selection of a reliable/reputable host is obviously critical since we don't need a person we've never heard of walking off with a machine. Obviously all hosts need to have a connection open to the internet 24/7, so broadband is mandatory. The host will also need to have the technical skill to assemble the components and perform technical support on adopt-a-rig Folding b0x3n.

Here is a cut and paste (with modifications to make it MacNN specific) of Extreme Overclocking Forum's adopt-a-rig program rules. The section in italics is still tenative and the xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx's represent the coordinator(s) who are still tenative.

-------------------------------------------------------------------
What is the purpose of Adopt-a-Rig?

The Adopt-a-Rig program is designed to take spare unused computer parts, and put them to good use by building a functioning system that can "fold" for the Team 16: MacNN Folding@Home Team.

What do I get out of donating parts or hosting a rig?

The main benefit is in helping medical science find cures that could save lives! By donating computer parts you are helping to build a machine that can accomplish this. If you are chosen as a host, then you get the pride of being one of the chosen few to host an Adopt-a-Rig for the Team 16: MacNN Folding@Home team.


Who do I contact for questions, donating parts, or hosting a rig?
Please contact xxxxxxxxxxxx for any questions, concerns, or comments about the Adopt-a-Rig program. The best way is via Private Message (Please include in the subject "Adopt-a-Rig" for a faster response).


Rules For Submitting Adopt-A-Rig Hardware:

1) Hardware must be in good WORKING condition, please don't send us anything that doesn't work!
2) All shipping costs are the responsibility of the person donating the hardware. (Please PM xxxxxxxxxxxxx for the address to ship donated hardware)
3) All dontated hardware becomes the property of the Team 16: MacNN Folding@Home Team.

While we will do our best to utilize all hardware we receive, please understand that some oddball or rare components might not get used if compatible parts are unavailable.

Rules For Being A Valid Adopt-A-Rig Canidate:

1) Team member must be in good standing and have shown dedication to the MacNN Folding@Home Team for the long haul. The team member must have been actively folding for the MacNN Folding@Home Team. Past participation and contributions are taken into account. The MacNN Folding@Home Team is recognized as team number 16, as is recognized by the Folding@Home project, hosted by The Pande Group of Stanford University, as well as www.folding-community.org.

2) The member must be able to provide the Adopt-a-Rig machine with a safe and secure environment for an extended period of time - this means an indeterminate period.

3) You must be knowledgeable in building & maintaing computers and loading operating systems, and all that is entailed. In the event the computer should fail, the host is expected to make good faith efforts to repair it. The host is NOT expected to pay any repair costs out of pocket. We will send a replacement part should something fail (or I can reimburse you if its decided that it would be easier / cheaper to pick up the part locally). The only thing required of the host is to swap out the components to get it back up and running.

4) Dedicated, "always-on" Internet connection 24/7 is essential, 56K and up, and a free port on an existing network. If the Internet connection should fail, the host is expected to make good faith efforts to get back on line as soon as is possible.

5) The computer must run and as a result, "Fold" 24/7 exclusively. (If you go on vacation or leave for an extended period of time you are allowed to turn it off.) Said computer is not intended to replace your computer for gaming, etc. Keep in mind that 24-hour operating will increase your electricity bill by up to a few dollars per month (rates vary by provider and geographic area). The Team expects the host to make good faith efforts to keep the computer running as much as is possible.

6) The computer shall Fold for team #16, under the user name of "MACNN_X" (X = Adopt-a-Rig machine no.) exclusively. The team can/will monitor the rigs output by way of statistics provided by Stanford, Statsman, MacNN stats, and the like. Be sure to instill the user name as shown here so as to be consistant with the other Adopt-a-Rig computers.

7) In the event the host can no longer support the adopted computer, or he/she is not able to run the computer for an extended period of time (that being 4 weeks or more), it is to be returned to xxxxxxxxxxxxxx, or a MacNN folding forum moderator, or an MacNN administrator within two weeks. The shipping costs involved with returning said computer shall be the responsibility of the host. (Under special circumstances we can help out with the return shipping costs.)

8) The host must be 18 years of age or older, and must live in the United States.

9) When contacting us about becoming a potential host, any useful info like internet connection, hosting facilities, and experience would be helpful.


Disclaimer:
- All team-donated parts that go into an Adopt-a-Rig donated Folding@Home computers are property of the MacNN Folding@Home Team. The parts the host provide are his own.
- MacNN.com owner(s), and/or administrator(s), and/or Folding moderator(s) reserve the right to amend these rules as required.
- MacNN.com, and/or its owner(s), and/or administrator(s), and/or moderator(s), and/or member(s), and/or sponsors shall not be held responsible or liable for any losses incurred either directly, or indirectly as a result of hosting any Adopt-a-Rig computer. The host selected shall bear full responsibility for said computer. By applying to be selected as a host, you acknowledge you understand, agree with, and will abide by these rules as set forth here and as may be amended in the future as required.

NOTE: This entire project and the rules set forth above is/are based on TRUST. We, the team, trust that you, the host, will do all you can to keep the computer folding as much as is possible, in its name, for the MacNNFolding@Home Team. You, the host, trust, that we the MacNN Folding@Home Team, support you in every way we can.
--------------------------------------------------------------

A concern I'm facing is the fact that the coordinator of this project needs to be more than just some forumite, and needs to have some clout on the boards; preferrably it'd be someone with moderator powers. This way the accountability is greater and confidence in that person would be higher as we get new members willing to donate components or adopt a rig themselves. While I'm willing to coordinate the project, I don't think I'm the right man for moderator status since there are a lot of people here who've been here longer, contributed more etc etc.

At the very least whomever coordinates the project needs the full blessing and authority of reader50, the MacNN Folding forum moderator and Scott the King the team captain.
 
OneMacGuy May 20, 2004 01:22 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Zimmerman:
Outstanding.

A concern I'm facing is the fact that the coordinator of this project needs to be more than just some forumite, and needs to have some clout on the boards; preferrably it'd be someone with moderator powers. This way the accountability is greater and confidence in that person would be higher as we get new members willing to donate components or adopt a rig themselves. While I'm willing to coordinate the project, I don't think I'm the right man for moderator status since there are a lot of people here who've been here longer, contributed more etc etc.

At the very least whomever coordinates the project needs the full blessing and authority of reader50, the MacNN Folding forum moderator and Scott the King the team captain.
This is awesome! Count me in for any contributions that may be needed. My shop is too full to host the boxes, but I will be glad to provide any needed support and spare parts.
 
reader50 May 20, 2004 01:25 PM
I suggest further modifications to the above, since MacNN is very much a multi-project team. Few people may enjoy being told that they can participate only with regards to Folding@home. We have varying activity in 7 projects and are watching several more for future participation, and a current project could end. RC5-64 ended, and another Stanford project (Genome@home) is so far the only project we've participated in that completely shut down. Admittedly not likely today with F@h, but like they say, the future is not set.

Also, is the limitation to United States hosts necessary? We have members from almost everywhere, what was Extreme Overclocking's discussion on that point? I could understand legal reasons, in case team members had to sue a disreputable host who ran off with the machines. Perhaps hosts could accept machines from members in the same country.

What happens when a machine becomes obsolete? At some point, it is simply no longer economic to pay the power when a new crunch system that costs a few hundred is also 100x faster.
 
Lateralus May 20, 2004 03:31 PM
I'd be more than willing to adopt a machine or two. FYI.
 
Zimmerman May 20, 2004 10:34 PM
Quote
Originally posted by reader50:
I suggest further modifications to the above, since MacNN is very much a multi-project team. Few people may enjoy being told that they can participate only with regards to Folding@home. We have varying activity in 7 projects and are watching several more for future participation, and a current project could end. RC5-64 ended, and another Stanford project (Genome@home) is so far the only project we've participated in that completely shut down. Admittedly not likely today with F@h, but like they say, the future is not set.

Also, is the limitation to United States hosts necessary? We have members from almost everywhere, what was Extreme Overclocking's discussion on that point? I could understand legal reasons, in case team members had to sue a disreputable host who ran off with the machines. Perhaps hosts could accept machines from members in the same country.

What happens when a machine becomes obsolete? At some point, it is simply no longer economic to pay the power when a new crunch system that costs a few hundred is also 100x faster.
Okeydokey. Well, my personal baby is Folding@Home since the goals of the project appeal to me more than those of these others. I really don't know anything about them except for the basic gist of what they are working towards. The thing that is importat is that there be an easy way to keep tabs on the adopted rigs. Additionally, it seems less practical to distribute (haha) the rigs across various projects since the number of rigs will be small enough that they won't make a lick of difference corperately whereas if we gather them all into one project, they can actually make a meaningful impact on that project's team stats. Then again, we're doing this for the research not the large ePenis so...

About internationality. As long as we have a solid host selection system in place, I don't anticipate Legal issues being too much of a concern. The main problem is shipping. In order to get a rig going in [for instance] Europe or the UK, all the components would have to be donated by residents in that country or region. It wouldn't make much sense for me to ship a 128mb dimm of PC2100 to Australia for $35 when it could be purchased there for less. Also, in the event that the host is no longer able to host, we need to be able to get the box back or re-distributed to someone else and the nearest qualified host might be in another country. Again, shipping issues. Otherwise, I have no qualms.

Concerning obsolesance. Thats not really all that realistic at this time. We don't need to accept rigs below a certain performance benchmark and by the time they become obsolete, I suppose the host has donated enough electricity to warrant keeping it. For instance, I don't see any purpose in putting a 603e machine online since their FPU absolutely sucks. Dual 604e's? Thats another story but quite honestly, even that is to slow to warrant the electricity in my opinion. The same goes for PII's. For the electricity you'd be spending you could buy another rig which would fold five times as fast.

Something else to consider: we could set up a Paypal account for the project to accept donations to help defray shipping costs or to buy that one component nobody seems to have right now.
 
Scotttheking May 20, 2004 11:56 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Zimmerman:
Outstanding.

There are a ton of coordination detail that need to be worked out. Selection of a reliable/reputable host is obviously critical since we don't need a person we've never heard of walking off with a machine. Obviously all hosts need to have a connection open to the internet 24/7, so broadband is mandatory. The host will also need to have the technical skill to assemble the components and perform technical support on adopt-a-rig Folding b0x3n.

Here is a cut and paste (with modifications to make it MacNN specific) of Extreme Overclocking Forum's adopt-a-rig program rules. The section in italics is still tenative and the xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx's represent the coordinator(s) who are still tenative.

-------------------------------------------------------------------
[EOC rules]
--------------------------------------------------------------

A concern I'm facing is the fact that the coordinator of this project needs to be more than just some forumite, and needs to have some clout on the boards; preferrably it'd be someone with moderator powers. This way the accountability is greater and confidence in that person would be higher as we get new members willing to donate components or adopt a rig themselves. While I'm willing to coordinate the project, I don't think I'm the right man for moderator status since there are a lot of people here who've been here longer, contributed more etc etc.

At the very least whomever coordinates the project needs the full blessing and authority of reader50, the MacNN Folding forum moderator and Scott the King the team captain.
Please write your own rules instead of copying theirs.
And it's Scotttheking ;) Don't try to make me into something more powerful, it might go to my head:eek:
 
reader50 May 21, 2004 02:23 AM
Scott is concerned with copyright infringement of rules copied from their board. It might or might not be an issue if they got interested, in the meantime I believe you can read their rules and write your own similar MacNN version.

Simply posting an excerpt from their board for informational purposes falls within fair use rules, provided it's not huge.
 
The Placid Casual May 21, 2004 05:54 AM
I have a parts bin available for plunder...

2 10 Gig Hard Drives
2 EPOX Motherboards (For P2 & 3 I think, integrated gfx)
3 P2 700 MMX processors
2 beige boxes inc 400w power supplies
512mb ram PC100 (varies small sticks)
2 AMD 2600+ heatsinks
8 tubes arctic silver
10 80mm fans.
etc etc

Just let me know if anyone needs any of it for the project...

Peace,

Marc

PS; I could host a UK box or 2 if needed.
 
Zimmerman May 24, 2004 11:04 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Scotttheking:
Please write your own rules instead of copying theirs.
And it's Scotttheking ;) Don't try to make me into something more powerful, it might go to my head:eek:
Sorry about dropping off the map for three days there; my ISP's local hub was down over the weekend. I'm working through a new set of rules and will post them within the next few days for perusal and revisions.

Just an FYI, this summer from around the 19th of June through mid/late August I'll be busy Army training in Georgia (I live in WA) and will be necessarily unavailable. More than likely whatever adopt-a-rig program we get going won't really kick off until August/September.
 
OneMacGuy May 25, 2004 02:55 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Zimmerman:
Just an FYI, this summer from around the 19th of June through mid/late August I'll be busy Army training in Georgia (I live in WA) and will be necessarily unavailable.
Where in Georgia? We live near Fort Gordon in Augusta, Georgia. My son is in the Army and he spent last summer in Washington at Fort Lewis.
 
Zimmerman May 26, 2004 09:36 AM
FT. Benning. I'll be going to Army Airborne School and some other training.
 
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