Wow! Anyone read the Slashdot OS X lovefest?

[yuriwho]

You can read it here (http://apple.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=02/09/26/0058238&mode=thread&tid=107)

Simply unbelievable! Hemos & Taco announce they are considering a switch and hundreds of posters encourage them to take the dive. Apple should make a series of switch ads with folk from the Unix community (like Moshe Bar).

It appears a significant fraction of the hardcore programmer/linux community is switching to OS X and loving it.

To read the bitching in this (and other) mac forums, you'd think that OS X has major problems.

I think we have a winner! With the coders come the apps, and apps drive adoption by the common folk. I sure hope this leads to alot of new software comming to OS X. With IT folk switching to Macs in significant numbers, I think Apple may actually have a chance to get a foothold in the corporate market. All that is currently missing is faster processors/bus but OS X appears to making major new waves.

[Don Pickett]

Slashdot's been getting more and more Mac friendly since X hit.

Resistance is Futile! They will be assimilated!

[juanvaldes]

no kidding, as for the lack of bitching remember that these people are programmers by trade and understand what a huge undertaking this is. And after windows and linux, OS X is pure heaven! ;)

and yes, OS X still has many problems.

[Nonsuch]

Comparing MacNN and /. makes you realize how incredibly demanding Mac users are when it comes to simple useability. This isn't a bad thing--our high standards directly encourage Apple's own high standards. But it's definitely true that for longtime *nix users, OS X is such a leap forward from what they're used to that things like slow window resizing and lack of Finder labels seem like petty nitpicking.

I've enjoyed reading /. over the last couple months. It's nice to see so much new enthusiasm for the Mac, and from such a sophisticated (mostly anyway) group of users.

[file]

Originally posted by Nonsuch:

I've enjoyed reading /. over the last couple months. It's nice to see so much new enthusiasm for the Mac, and from such a sophisticated (mostly anyway) group of users.

i'm a web programmer and i have seen the most mac switchers this past year than i have ever seen in my life

a lot of people are going "wow" over things mac users have had for years. i'm one of them, i switched in august.

by the way...from a recent switcher and a programmer, the mac and osx is really great. i'll still use MS but i would say apple's future is bright as the number 2 Personal Computer.

[ReggieX]

Taco's been lusting after a TiBook ever since they came out. And in EVERY SINGLE post he's made about it, he bitches about the lack of 3 mouse buttons. it was annoying at first, but then he kept on doing it as a running gag.

The *NIX folks have taken notice of OS X in a big way, but they'll still piss and moan about mouse buttons and hardware price. I ignore them and go back to getting my work done, which is the whole point of these infernal machines, isn't it? :D

[Gee4orce]

I've never understood the demand for multi-button trackpads on laptops. The two and three button designs are so clumsy that you end up needing to use two hands anyway, in which case, how is that so different from holding down the command or Alt key ?? For that matter, since both your hands are over the keyboard anyway, what's the flaming problem in the first place ?

[spacedog]

slashnerds are switching in a BIG way. my uber-nerdy linux-loving friends don't sit around and talk about tarballs and competing distributions as much anymore...they instead ask me questions about my tibook and later tell me they've purchased apples.

on the other end of the spectrum, my dad just bought his first mac - an ibook. the fact that a single computer can excite linux hackers and point-and-click folks like my parents is AMAZING.

OSX is the UNIX on the desktop that everyone's been waiting for.

[marusin]

You can't say it better than this... I'm anxious to see how things evolve... :)

Originally posted by spacedog:
OSX is the UNIX on the desktop that everyone's been waiting for.

[Xeo]

Originally posted by spacedog:
the fact that a single computer can excite linux hackers and point-and-click folks like my parents is AMAZING.Wow, you hit the nail on the head with that one.

[macmike42]

Originally posted by juanvaldes:
and yes, OS X still has many problems.

Compare these problems with those of _any_ *NIX-like distro.

[KidRed]

Well the main reason pc users nag about macs not having a 3 button mouse is because that's all they know and some might not realize it's not a standard and some actaully use the single buttonn mouse.

Not me, however, I could't work without my 3 button/scroll wheel :)

[Nonsuch]

Originally posted by KidRed:
Well the main reason pc users nag about macs not having a 3 button mouse is because that's all they know.

They also don't realize that a lot of Windows users still have no idea what the second mouse button is for.

[kcmac]

by spacedog
"on the other end of the spectrum, my dad just bought his first mac - an ibook. the fact that a single computer can excite linux hackers and point-and-click folks like my parents is AMAZING."

In the same vein, compared to Windows, we get both the consumer version and the pro version of OS X. Never understand how the PC world puts up with that anyway.

The slashdot replies are interesting on one hand and disappointing in another. The great debate about the mouse is unbelievable. If nothing else, maybe Apple should give you the option when you buy a mac to get the standard ration or allow you to get an alternate mouse with more than one button. I still don't think this will really influence that many people but why not?

It is also clear in the replies that the Apple laptops are seen as a great value to the nix lookers interested in OS X. Desktops are another matter but Apple should really start pushing this to our nix friends.

[Subzero Diesel949]

Originally posted by Nonsuch:


They also don't realize that a lot of Windows users still have no idea what the second mouse button is for.

I don't know how accurate "a lot" is, but I have seen my share.

Whenever I had to help out other people in the dorms with their ethernet I would sometimes right-click to do different things on their computers, and sometimes they would tell me:

"Wait! How did you do that."

"You just right-click."

"Right click?"

"Yeah, the right button on the mouse."

"Oh, so that's what it's for?"

;)

[Deal]

You have to use the right mouse button in OS X. I'd climb out on the ledge without it.

Don't those people know you can use a different mouse with the computer? It does un-plug, you know?

[klinux]

Originally posted by Nonsuch:


They also don't realize that a lot of Windows users still have no idea what the second mouse button is for.

BS! Just like how I have to correct PC users on Mac information, I find myself having to do that with Mac users as well.

PC users complain about the one button mouse because we use the second (and third, and fourth...) buttons extensively. This is why major OEM PC makers (Dell, Compaq, etc) and virtually all mouse sold by 3rd party manufacturers all have multiple (3-8) buttons.

[dfiler]

I read nearly all of the hundreds of posts at slashdot. It amazes me how few people really understand all the issues involved in the multi-button mouse debate. Not a single one of the hundreds of posts touched on a key issue in the debate.

The overloaded functionality of the control key is what steared most computing platforms away from modifier-key/mouse combinations. The control key was initally used for shell commands. Thus, it can't be used for shortcuts in terminals. When GUI based keyboard shortcuts were first introduced, shells were a very large part of the user experience. Users quickly learned not to realy on control based shortcuts since they weren't universal.

Since windows used the alt key for cycling menu and control focus, it also could not be used for things like window closing, hiding, app quiting, and of course copy and paste. When MS decided they needed another key on their keyboards so that windows based PCs wouldn't have less keys than Macs, they introduced the windows key. For some strange reason, this was also assigned to menu navigation. Windows still lacks a universal modifier key for keyboard shortcuts.

This was a key factor in the adoption of multibutton mice on many operating systems. They simply didn't have any non-overloaded modifier keys available when the mouse was introduced. How about we just keep this piece of history to ourselves and leave them /.ers in ignorance ;)

[MacManMikeOSX]

soon they will all switch and become one entity mohohahaha

[Person Man]

Originally posted by klinux:


BS! Just like how I have to correct PC users on Mac information, I find myself having to do that with Mac users as well.



Sorry, I've seen my fair share of PC users who don't know what the right mouse button is for, so it's not just BS

[slider]

Originally posted by Person Man:


Sorry, I've seen my fair share of PC users who don't know what the right mouse button is for, so it's not just BS

It's true, I'm not saying that a person who know theirs windows system doesn't know how to use their mouse. What I am saying is that your average Joe doesn't know how to use a computer and is perplexed by the multiple button mouse. Some give a $hit and some don't. I use a multi-button mouse and would never use a single, but I never really saw it as a big deal. Your average user will be fine with the one button. And besides, I bought the mouse that fit my hand and had features I like. Babbling.

[juanvaldes]

Originally posted by macmike42:


Compare these problems with those of _any_ *NIX-like distro.

wasn't comparing it to anything, just stating the obvious. :D

[itai195]

Somewhere along the line here, I think the main point was skipped over... YOU CAN HAVE EITHER ONE ON THE MAC! How many times do people need to be told before they figure it out??? Get a Mac, and if you don't like the pro mouse go get a $15 MS 3-button/scroll wheel optical mouse! SHEESH!

[Mac Zealot]

about the mouse:

I originally started with the pro mouse, then realized it was a pain in quake 3 so I bought a multibutton mouse.

It actually hurt me more than it gained any advantage, as it just gave me wrist pain and i was overshooting the scroll anyway.

The one thing I hate about scroll mice is you get so used to them, then you go to school, or someone else's house and find yourself rubbing between the two mouse buttons.

Truth be told, if you need more than 1 mouse button that's because you're probably not using the keyboard enough. Since I switched to the mac I've been enlightened with the command key and am really happy with it, to be frank, it's much easier for me to slam command q, p, w, m, etc, to do things instead of moving the mouse and clicking ;)

That and the fact I find mouse 'clicks' to be very annoying ;)

But meh, that's just me. The pro mouse is so thin it feels relaxing to use :D

[pjay]

But meh, that's just me. The pro mouse is so thin it feels relaxing to use :D

I agree with you about the Pro Mouse. I was previously using a MacAlly '2-button/scroll wheel' with my iBook and it wasn't very ergonomic.

I've just got a new DP867 (my first Apple desktop) and thought I'd try using the supplied mouse. It's so comfortable and beautiful looking (and I don't mind hitting control instead of the right button). I will save the MacAlly for games.

Back on the topic of the open source community, this is my first taste of OSX (I love it) but there are no drivers for my printer. Thank god for Gimp Print! It now works perfectly.

[Camali]

This is the first time that I have heard family members ask me so many questions about Apple computers, every one of them loves the new 17" iMac.

My brother-in-law one day calls me and tells me to help him out on my mom's computer, so I sit down and he hands over his credit card and says, I want to buy the new 17" iMac. I was completely surprised because he only talked about getting a computer. Then once he received his EVERY body that seen it (and seen what it can do with iPhoto, iTunes, etc.) really really liked it.

Two weeks later my cousin calls me out of the blue and asks what was I doing and if I would help her pick a computer for her, she was aware Apple's stuff but was careful on how much she spent. We headed to the Apple Store (her choice) and came out with the DP 1ghz DDR Mac, 17" monitor, 3mp digital camera and a photo printer. And now those that see her PowerMac are asking me more and more about Apple's computers. I know I'll be visiting the Apple Store at least 3 more times this year.

So now that these new Apple users have been using their computers for several weeks, not anyone of them have had a problem with a one button mouse! I could tell them that if they hold down the control, etc they can get different menus, but they are learning and probably won't need them.

I've learned how to a multi-button mouse because at work I am forced to use a PC with Windows. So when a PC user (WHO insists that PCs are better than Macs) needs help and I tell them to right click on something, they seem confused by what I mean about right-click.

And now that OS X has Unix underneath it can only get interesting from here on!

[scottiB]

pjay, welcome.

I think most of /.'s three-button discussion deals with the lack of a right-click button on the iBook and TiBook. Then, it blossomed to desktops. Like Mac Zealot (and since I've been using Macs since my Mac Plus), I'm accustomed to control and command clicking. It's nice because I use the same method with my iBook and trackpad (which alludes to dfiler's comment on having global modifier keys).

Regardless, it's cool having Macs being considered by those who wouldn't have considered them two years ago. I know OS X is a godsend in my office configured with Irix, Linux, Win2k boxes. All is so much smoother.

[[APi]TheMan]

Originally posted by klinux:
PC users complain about the one button mouse because we use the second (and third, and fourth...) buttons extensively.
Extensively? I highly doubt that in most cases.

I have two mouses that I could use on my Pismo, a Macally (the mini scroll mouse) and an Intellimouse Explorer. I never use this laptop without the external mouse...

The Intellimouse has four buttons, five including the scroll wheel click, and I never use any except right click. I have never known a PC user to assign shortcuts or actions to the buttons on a mouse.

[pliny]

Originally posted by klinux:


virtually all mouse sold by 3rd party manufacturers all have multiple (3-8) buttons.

Eh? 8 buttons? what are you, a monkey?

[Nonsuch]

Wow ... now we can't shut up about 1-button mice. ;)

[spacedog]

Again, the most important part of the issue is this: OS X allows you to use the computer at your own level. If you feel more comfortable with a two+ button mouse, you have that capability - but you're not tied to it.

I come from the PC world. I like my five button + scroll wheel microsnot mouse. So when I'm at my desk, I plug it in. When I'm wandering around with my tibook, I use the trackpad. Is it some huge inconvenience? Of course not!

BTW, I'd suspect that a lot of the /. posts were started as trolls...