[besson3c]

I don't understand this whole sentiment.

To me an OS is useless without applications to actually do work, and we all knew full well that there weren't many apps out when 10.0 was released. Yes, X users had the option of running the apps through Classic, but there is no real advantage in working this way over using the same app in 9...

I know this thread might seem pointless since the release of 10.0 has come and gone, but I keep on hearing the sentiment carried one step further to say that since Apple duped them they are entitled to 10.1 for free.

This isn't a commentary on whether or not 10.1 should be free or not, but I'm curious to know what exactly was expected from 10.0 and why they now feel ripped off?

way too slow/sluggish like these forums!

[BuonRotto]

Well, I thought it was going to be a free upgrade, but when you think about the scope of this upgrade, it's inevitable. I mean, I wish it were free too, but it's the way it goes, and for the kind of investment I've made, one more shareware cost won't break the camel's back.

"Bah! Go cry on someone else's lap."

[mr_sonicblue]

I, for one, got exactly what I expected when I paid for OS X. In fact, I bought a PowerBook just to use what I paid for.

[iloveOSX]

me 2

[besson3c]

way too slow/sluggish like these forums!

That's my point exactly, too slow for *what*? What could you actually do in 10.0 when it first came out other than view webpages? What were you expecting to do?

[mrtew]

Originally posted by besson3c:
<STRONG>I don't understand this whole sentiment.
This isn't a commentary on whether or not 10.1 should be free or not, but I'm curious to know what exactly was expected from 10.0 and why they now feel ripped off?</STRONG>

My OSX box says "The World's Most Advanced Operating System", not "The World's Most Half-Baked Operating System". That's why I feel Apple owes us a free upgrade, free shipping and handling, and a $20 reimbursement check as an apology for dragging 10.1 out for months just so Steve could grandstand one more time instead of inserting the fixes via the Software Update control panel just as fast as they could code them.

[iloveOSX]

g the fixes via the Software Update control panel just as fast as they could code them.

???????? that's not how OS development works. fixes are connected to new features are connected to the leg bone then the thigh bone. you can't trickle out as big of a revamp as 10.1 in bits and pieces.

p.s. they owe you? that's a bold statement.

[iloveOSX]

plus many of the new featues have just been completed. do how should they have been "trickled" out over the past few months.

i understand the frustration but by all accounts its sounds like X = slow comments will be nearly gone in a couple of weeks. if apple wants $20 so they can fed ex next day it to me on a sat. (like they did last time ) i'll be the first to order.

[besson3c]

My OSX box says "The World's Most Advanced Operating System", not "The World's Most Half-Baked Operating System". That's why I feel Apple owes us a free upgrade, free shipping and handling, and a $20 reimbursement check as an apology for dragging 10.1 out for months just so Steve could grandstand one more time instead of inserting the fixes via the Software Update control panel just as fast as they could code them.

Re: The World's Most Advanced Operating System:

- what form of marketting would you have chosen?
- so it wasn't advanced enough for you to click on things and view webpages, what were you really expecting with no apps for the thing (upon initial release)?
- when you fix one component of the OS you need to test it with others, right? Why waste time and resources bringing pieces of 10.1 up to release quality considering the aforementioned time and effort, and my above points?

[phantomdragonz]

10.1 is the S**t it's fast and easier i get it for free (developer friend) so im happy just have to get more apps and mider usage then it will be cooler

[msuper69]

I thought we had gotten beyond this by now.

It was no big secret that the initial release of OS X was not feature complete. Apple made it clear that the March 24 release was for early adopters, not mainstream users. They told us it wouldn't have CD burning nor DVD playing. There was (and still is somewhat) a dearth of native applications.

We are just about ready to get 10.1 and a boatload of new applications come Paris. IMHO, a measly 20USD for this update is nothing to get upset about. Let's see, $30 for the beta which we got back when we bought the first release for $129. Add $20 for 10.1 and the total is $149. MS will be charging at least this much for a new install of XP.

Can we finally get put this behind us and move on?

[mr. burns]

duped is a good way of putting it.
but 10.1 is sick.

[moreno]

Re: The World's Most Advanced Operating System:
- what form of marketting would you have chosen?

------------------

"the Operating system of your dreams, someday."

[mrtew]

Originally posted by msuper69:
<STRONG>I thought we had gotten beyond this by now.
Can we finally get put this behind us and move on?</STRONG>

Hey, he asked the question and I answered it. If you are tired of the subject it was clearly stated in the thread's title and you didn't really HAVE to read it again.
And yes I'd LOVE to put it behind us, but not until Steve actually gives us the World's Most Advanced Operating System. And no amount of "Kwit yer bitchin's" will convince me I am at all happy with 10.0.4.
(And all the people that already have 10.1 and constantly telling us how great it is and how much we're going to love it if we ever get it isn't helping at ALL!)

[happyOSXDude]

Twenty bucks just isnt that much money. I know most
people who are upset are more concerned with "the
principle of the thing...".

For those who aren't excited about paying twenty bucks:

its the end of the Apple quarter and if 100,000 people
upgrade, it may help Apple show a profit for the quarter!
Not reading about "beleagured Apple Computer..." is worth
twenty to me. Hell, upgrade to Quicktime Pro while you are
at it (I think that's another twenty -- I'm half serious
on this point).

I've been able to use 10.0.* for everyday use -- so it
was well worth the ninety nine I paid for it. Can't wait
to get data CD burning for doing backups. And having DVD
will be great just so we can move to a new topic.

Hopefully 10.1 will be so pleasant that this will all soon pass.

[foamy]

Hey I'm actually going to buy 10.1 when it comes out. I knew 10.0 was a beta and I didn't care to pay $100+ to beta test the OS for Apple. Now that they've produced something that is worth money, they'll get mine.

[Visnaut]

Its truly sad that ppl blame Apple for their own misinformation. For those of you who think Apple owe you an upgrade:

Bought into the hype on Apple's promo material? Welcome to advertising, where the more the subjective a pitch is, the better! If you're going to make a purchase decision based on what the box says ALONE, then you have no one to blame but yourself.

If you were truly adament on getting the biggest bang for your buck and had such high expectations of an operating system (hey, I'm right there with you), then perhaps you should have waited until all the reviews and user testimonials started coming in to make your decision. Maybe then you'd have found out that waiting for OS X to shape up would have been a better call, which is exactly what I did: wait!

That was your decision to shell out that much money for a brand new product. And taking the company's hype as the sole determining factor of the performance of the product is unwise at best. Just the fact that you're all here complaining on this forum means that you certainly are all informed individuals, and had every possibility to read and inform yourselves regarding what was happening at the front lines of OS X usage.

This is what I did. I took it upon myself to get the best for my money. I had my expectations, did my research, and Mac OS X didn't fit the bill. So now I wait to collect the reviews and testimonials of OS X 10.1 for a couple of weeks after its release to see if it truly fits me like a glove. Then and ONLY then will I go out to buy it. Maybe you should all consider doing the same?

[DaveGee]

After having run 10.1 for much of the summer I have come to a simple conclusion. The sad truth is some people here (you ALL know who they are) bitch for one of two reasons.

1 - So they come off sounding more important than they really are (trust me they aren't)
2 - They like to complain and could NEVER be happy.

Let's forget about things such as being charged a $20 fee for 10.1 for a second since nobody knows till the fat lady (Steve Jobs in this case) sings.

Sad but true...

D

[ 09-09-2001: Message edited by: DaveGee ]

[Scott_H]

I got less than what I paid for. There are no video card drivers for my graphics card. There's no sticker on the box that said "No Rage Pro drivers" Apple said my hardware is supported but it in fact it is not supported. This IS NOT MY FAULT, APPLE LIED!!!

So no, it's not my fault that OS 10 is a flop of an OS. It's Apple fault and we should not have to pay to fix Apple mistakes. I guess I was a fool to think that Apple would ship and OS that supported the supported hardware.

[Kickaha]

Scott, not to be a jerk, but what machine is that you have that has a Rage Pro in it that was specifically stated to be supported?

And, by no drivers, do you mean it doesn't work *at all*, or *as fast* as it would with optimized drivers?

[iloveOSX]

scott take the blue chill pill. it runs on your machine. it runs apps. it doesn't do everything but all involved knew everything would not be in there in 10.0.0. two weeks and 98% of us will be happy.


osx is not a flop for me so you should not generalize. i love it and can't wait for 10.1. not all of us are fixated on its shortcomings.

don't cry for me label-tina! &lt;--horrible evita impression.


off topic: what's your last day as mod? will you still hang around post- mod?

[besson3c]

I got less than what I paid for. There are no video card drivers for my graphics card. There's no sticker on the box that said "No Rage Pro drivers" Apple said my hardware is supported but it in fact it is not supported. This IS NOT MY FAULT, APPLE LIED!!!

Scott, I own the original iBook so I'm affected by the Rage Pro driver situation, but I'm finding the general responsiveness of 10.1 to be quite nice, and the difference between supported machines and my machines to not be terribly noticable.

Other things that better drivers would be good for:

- to enjoy my OpenGL screensavers (yipee)
- to play games better (not that there are a whole lot of games for X yet)
- Quicktime acceleration (haven't played many QT movies in 10.1 to know how well they play - I'm sure Classic QT still works though as it did in 10.0.x)
- 3D applications (which don't really exist yet on X although coming soon)

So is there really a great need - yet??? At this point complaining about no Rage Pro drivers is like complaining about spending money on a car and not getting a fuel economy gauge (i.e. you don't really need it, you just want it to be there under the principal that you paid good money for the car).

There is evidence that there are RagePro stubs (at least) present in 10.1. Obviously Apple intends to support these cards and there are already basic drivers running from what I've heard in here - perhaps doing some of the above (although I doubt that includes OpenGl acceleration). Apple wouldn't have included even stubs for the good of their health... I can't see providing complete functionality for these cards as being a huge priority for them given the task at hand with the 10.1 project anyway.

Same goes for themes, sounds, and all those other little silly things.

[Scott_H]

Sorry all. I find it sooooooo strange that everyone covers for Apple in this situation.

I have an iMac that Apple says it supported.

There's an ATI GPU soldered into the motherboard. All my drivers come from Apple's OS. So please don't tell me to talk to ATI. I bought and iMac not a video card.

There is zero acceleration. There is no use of the graphics card to get the image on the monitor save for copying pixels. Quicktime sucks. OpenGL runs in software mode.

Apple didn't bother to tell anyone they left the video drivers out. I'm sure if the Rage 128, Radeon, GF2 or GF3 worked as well as my Rage Pro you'd all be screaming bloody murder. So why tell me to stop?

I didn't write OS X, I didn't ship it, I don't run Apple, I don't tell them what to support and who to **** over. It is NOT MY FAULT THAT APPLE ****ED ME OVER AND DIDN'T SHIP DRIVERS FOR MY COMPUTER.

And now I have to PAY to get what ****ing Apple should have shipped in the first place and didn't bother anyone wouldn't be there. This is MY FAULT?

OS X is unusable for most people. It's very slow, lacks important support, Apple was late with the APIs slowing developers down. It was botched.

Please everyone rah rah chear Apple on. Bend over backwards and blame Apple's **** ups on the users. I wont join you though.

[iloveOSX]

rah rah go apple!!!

[Kickaha]

Got it.

Your definition of 'supported' includes 'all out optimization'.

I just assumed that wouldn't be the case, given the big red flags from Apple that 10.0.x was for early adopters... you thought otherwise. In my estimation, 10.0.x was going to be a minimal OS to get us going and experimenting.

Guess I was right.

Ah well. 10.1 is around the corner. Then maybe my AirPort will be 'supported' (can't set the base station options), my Orb will be 'supported' (even found an IOKit bug with that one!), my keyboard will be 'supported' (brightness/sound buttons are flaky)...

Wow, I guess I should really be hating 10.0.4, hunh?

Naaaah.

[KidRed]

Hip Hip Hooray For Apple!!

[KidRed]

Damn, now I got DUPED by this board!

(dup-licated)

[ 09-10-2001: Message edited by: KidRed ]

[Kickaha]

Double frickin' frackin' post...

[ 09-10-2001: Message edited by: Kickaha ]

[besson3c]

There is zero acceleration. There is no use of the graphics card to get the image on the monitor save for copying pixels. Quicktime sucks. OpenGL runs in software mode.

Apple didn't bother to tell anyone they left the video drivers out. I'm sure if the Rage 128, Radeon, GF2 or GF3 worked as well as my Rage Pro you'd all be screaming bloody murder. So why tell me to stop?

Scott, at work we have a Cube, a B&W G3, a Graphite G4, and an iMac... there really isn't much of a difference in speed for regular OS poking-around type of stuff. I'd like to know if Apple figured out how to use the video cards to accelerate some of Quartz's functions, but I suspect that they haven't tapped into the GPU on any machine yet.

So Quicktime doesn't run as well, that's a legitimate complaint... you *could* use Classic QT though. OpenGL accel - as I asked before what is this needed for right now?

I'm not apologizing for Apple... I just think that they have had higher priorities set as of late. They aren't trying to screw you, there is no need to feel the victim. Apple has limited resources. Look at the feature set of 10.1 again and consider all which has been done, and how much more important much of that is than it is for machine owners like us to be able to enjoy our screensavers.

Please tell me exactly what you need OpenGL acceleration for that you can't wait for? If Apple decides that they will NEVER support Rage Pro machines, I'll be equally pissed off when software is released that uses OpenGL, or if there is some really hot game I want to run and I'm left out.... this isn't the case right now. I still believe that Apple will eventually include better RagePro drivers based on their appearance in 10.1, don't you?

I think if they left out video card support for EVERYBODY, probably not many people would realize this right now.

I'm still curious to know (speaking of support of hardware) whether I'll get my modem sounds working in 10.1.... I haven't heard a peep from my modem in any version of Mac OS X.

[Scott_H]

Originally posted by Kickaha:
<STRONG>Got it.

Your definition of 'supported' includes 'all out optimization'.</STRONG>

Does yours include "does not use hardware"?

Originally posted by Kickaha:
<STRONG>I just assumed that wouldn't be the case, given the big red flags from Apple that 10.0.x was for early adopters... you thought otherwise. In my estimation, 10.0.x was going to be a minimal OS to get us going and experimenting.</STRONG>

For the 10,000,000 time we found this out AFTER most of us ordered OS X. We knew it was the 10.0 release but we didn't know Apple was going to penalize us for buying early. Wanna use your hardware? You gotta pay an extra $20. But that's all my fault, right?

Originally posted by Kickaha:
<STRONG>Guess I was right.

Ah well. 10.1 is around the corner. Then maybe my AirPort will be 'supported' (can't set the base station options), my Orb will be 'supported' (even found an IOKit bug with that one!), my keyboard will be 'supported' (brightness/sound buttons are flaky)...

Wow, I guess I should really be hating 10.0.4, hunh?

Naaaah.</STRONG>

Hating 10.0.4? No. Hating Apple for charging for bug fixes? Yes.

I hope I'm wrong. I hope Apple doesn't pull a Microsoft and make us pay for bug fixes and hardware support.

BTW if M$ did this you�d all have a field day. I'd have to close 100 �M$ charges for XP bug fixes� threads here each day

[ 09-10-2001: Message edited by: Scott_H ]

[pete]

People here seem to assume that all mac users read these forums before they go out and purchase software such as macos x. I'd say most users don't. They're excited about a new OS that Apple proclaims is the most modern and sophisticated OS around. Of course it's marketing hype. BUT Apple didn't say it was dog slow, nor did they tell the consumer that they have to reboot into os 9 to watch DVDs or that many other things that today are considered daily necessities in an OS. Not to mention that lack of support for video drivers in offically supported systems! WHERE ON THE BOX OR ON APPLE"S SITE DID IT TELL THE CONSUMER THAT THESE THINGS WERE MISSING????? Nowhere! Apple didn't issue a formal warning to consumers that Os X lacked several basic and standard features.

I sure hope Apple provides free upgrades. All those beta and rev. 1 buyers deserve a free upgrade to make their software usable As it stands, many of us have returned to os 9 because os x just isn't good enough yet.

I can't believe all the people who say that it would be alright for apple to charge. It isn't a matter of money, it's the principle.

Pete

[besson3c]

People here seem to assume that all mac users read these forums before they go out and purchase software such as macos x. I'd say most users don't. They're excited about a new OS that Apple proclaims is the most modern and sophisticated OS around. Of course it's marketing hype. BUT Apple didn't say it was dog slow, nor did they tell the consumer that they have to reboot into os 9 to watch DVDs or that many other things that today are considered daily necessities in an OS. Not to mention that lack of support for video drivers in offically supported systems! WHERE ON THE BOX OR ON APPLE"S SITE DID IT TELL THE CONSUMER THAT THESE THINGS WERE MISSING????? Nowhere! Apple didn't issue a formal warning to consumers that Os X lacked several basic and standard features.

Are you new to the computing industry, just out of curiosity? I don't mean that in a condescending way, but surely you've noticed that software companies have produced slow software since the beginning of time in various configs. There has NEVER been a warning on any box that I know of that the product will run slow.

As for DVD Player, on the Mac OS X box it includes a list of applications/features. DVD is not included. As for video drivers, see my post to Scott...

I work at a support center and constantly get calls from people running Win98 or even Win95. I don't think people upgrade unless somebody they trust gives them the green flag. Most magazines and support companies I'm sure have not given OS X the green flag yet.

Apple is not trying to pull the wool over anybody's eyes either in their presentation of OS X or through the actual box/documentation.

[GaelDesign]

Originally posted by Scott_H:
&lt;snip&gt;
<STRONG>OS X is unusable for most people. It's very slow, lacks important support, Apple was late with the APIs slowing developers down. It was botched.

Please everyone rah rah chear Apple on. Bend over backwards and blame Apple's **** ups on the users. I wont join you though.</STRONG>

Um, just one question, Scott -- what are you doing running a Mac OS X message board?

I've been using OS X for months, and I think it is fabulous. Obviously lots of people agree with me. How do you come off spouting "Apple botched the job, nobody can use this thing" nonsense?

God, I'm getting sick of hearing this kind of stuff. Wait, I can see it now -- a year later, 10.5 is out, everything is rock-solid, the OS is blazingly fast, and all the major apps are out -- and people are still complaning about...no windowshades....

AAAAHHHH!!!

Jared

[besson3c]

Hating 10.0.4? No. Hating Apple for charging for bug fixes? Yes.

I didn't pay Apple for 10.0.1 - 10.0.4. Those were bux fixes...

(don't read too much into this, I'm just trying to figure out why you define 10.1 as a bug fix upgrade).

[Scott_H]

Originally posted by GaelDesign:
<STRONG>

Um, just one question, Scott -- what are you doing running a Mac OS X message board? </STRONG>

I've been moderating since before the Public Beta. I think. It's been a long time. Only OS X cheer leaders can moderate? It's better for Apple if people point out all of OS X short comings so Apple can get to work. You think Jobs would be on stage saying speed is #1 if people like me didn't bitch so much?

Originally posted by GaelDesign:
<STRONG>I've been using OS X for months, and I think it is fabulous. Obviously lots of people agree with me. How do you come off spouting "Apple botched the job, nobody can use this thing" nonsense?</STRONG>

I think if you'd be willing to open your eyes and take a good look at OS X you'd see that it's simply NOT acceptable. I was at an Apple store and one of the managers told me he didn't like showing off OS X because it was too slow, a disappointment. So that's how I "come off" spouting something that is not at all "nonsense".

Originally posted by GaelDesign:
<STRONG>God, I'm getting sick of hearing this kind of stuff. Wait, I can see it now -- a year later, 10.5 is out, everything is rock-solid, the OS is blazingly fast, and all the major apps are out -- and people are still complaning about...no windowshades....

AAAAHHHH!!!

Jared</STRONG>

Well guess what? I get sick of hearing people go on and on about how the next update is the one. 10.5 will be about 4.6 too late.

[Kickaha]

Hmmm.

Pixels are on screen.

Hardware is being used.

Being used to it's full potential? Nope.

Does it *work*? Yes.

I'm sorry that you weren't aware that 10.0 was for early adopters... it seemed very clear to me that it was, very much prior to release. That was a pretty clear message, it seemed to me, starting at least a couple of months prior.

As for charging for bug fixes... um... since when *hasn't* this been the case? 9.0 comes out, then 9.1... which is a free download, but if you want the CD, $20. 9.2 comes out, which is a free download, or you can order a CD for $20. It's been this way ever since they started shipping OS updates on CD. (Heck, I remember paying $50 to get System 7.5 on *floppies* because they didn't ship with my PowerBook 5300 out of the box!)

The only difference I see here is that there *may* not be a free download option.

We're just going to have to agree to disagree.

[Scott_H]

Please everyone. Please make as many excuses as you can for Apple. Ignore how slow OS X is. Ignore the lack of hardware support. Ignore the unfulfilled promise of updates out by summer. Remind me that summer ends sometime in mid March. Please ignore of all it.

Instead blame the users. Blame me for not understanding what OS X is all about. Blame me that Apple didn't ship hardware support. Blame me that Apple came out AFTER I ordered and said OS X would be lacking and that they would ship the missing stuff later. Blame me for that stuff never shipping. All the bugs that haven't been fixes since before the public beta are all my fault. It's all my fault. I'm sorry.

[godzookie2k]

Apple warned us that it was for "early adopters only".

HOWEVER based on apple's presentations, their website/advertising did ANY of us know OSX 10.0 was going to be as slow as it was? Did apple PUBLISH a list of short-comings in the OS along with the early adopter warnings so those "early adopters" would know CLEARLY what they were getting into? NO. I had to wait how long to get something as simple as drag and drop between classic and X to work? &lt;expletive deleted&gt;, I couldn't upload jack &lt;expletive deleted&gt; through interarchy until it was carbonized. Lack of applications I'm not complaining about, all or most of my applications work peachy through classic. (albeit slowly, but they work) HOWEVER Apple did not clearly tell us "pseudo-beta testers/Early adopters" exactly what the situation we were getting into was going to be. Apple did not (based on what I've heard) get the IO/Kit to developers to GET us our applications on time. If apple has a machine on the list of supported hardware, at the very least the shipping hardware on those configurations must be fully functional. A lack of video drivers is just unacceptable. Just like if Apple built and shipped scanners with all of their computers, I would expect it to work it to work under X if it was shipped with (stock) the machine i bought that is on that supported hardware list.

My modem does not work as advertised thanks to OS X. &lt;expletive deleted&gt; I cannot download OS X UPDATES because I can't hold an internet connection. My point is, that if Apple says a machine is on its supported hardware list, early adopter or not, apple should concentrate on getting shipping hardware to work fully on those machines. perhaps not absolutely optimized, but it should work as advertised. In Scott's case, his video card should be getting SOME work. it is not. My modem should work. It is not. This is why apple owes us an upgrade. It has been said that this is the version of OSX that should have shipped. well dammit I paid my hundred bucks, I deserve to get the operating system that should have been in that box. I would have no problems having to fork out another 20 bucks for the upgrade had apple had a clear listing of performance short comings accompaning their "early adopter warning" even if it was on some un linked to obscure page on their server, it should have been there, somewhere.


nick

&lt;pre emptive strike&gt; If anyone tells me that I should have searched the Darwin bug tracker for performance shortcomings before purchasing, you can lick my &lt;expletive deleted&gt; &lt;/pre emptive strike&gt;

[fimwat]

I would have to agree with Scott_H's points. It does Apple no good if we blindly accept whatever comes out of the company.

What's with you people? The guy (Scot H) is only stating the obvious. OSX is cool an all, but it's unacceptable (at this point) as a consumer-ready OS. Apple is just a company, they don't give a **** about you, they're not going to feed your family. They need to step up to the plate like any other company or the consumers will have the final say. And they are not a charity , I don't feel good about giving them any of my hard earned money if it's not warranted.

[xi_hyperon]

Originally posted by Kickaha:
<STRONG>
We're just going to have to agree to disagree.</STRONG>

Thank you Kickaha. I think that says it all.

[godzookie2k]

We're just going to have to agree to disagree.

Thank you Kickaha. I think that says it all.

NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO. you are WRONG. WE are RIGHT!
hehheheheheheh

(sorry, I had to )


Nick

[Some Guy []]

Scott_h, i've come to the conclusion that you're nothing more then a misinformed kid that needs to be slapped around a bit more.

if you think $20 apple is charging is the cost of the bug fixes and features they've put in 10.1, then you're an idiot, plain and simple.

10.1 is NOT JUST BUG fixes, it includes new features, functions, and optimizations.

I think $20 is just enough to cover cost of producing the 3 CDs, books etc and maybe paying some minimum wage people i'm not sure about that last one.

$20 is almost the price of a CD or a pizza, get over it, shutup, and go to bed. Oh ya, and stop posting.

[KidRed]

Nothing is wrong with anybody. People will either agree or disagre with Scott, that doesn't make anyone anything. I disagree with Scott, I was fully aware there were some issues with 10.0 and some lack of support (my printer, dvd drive) so I got X for my wife's iMac because she wouldn't be affected by it's shortcomings. No one made me buy X, and I think when spending $130 you really think about is this purchase neccessary? For me it wasn't, I play on X but i can't use it full time yet. But I bought it because I wanted to see it, I wanted to use it, I wanted to see what the future of the Mac OS was going to be.

And to Scott's position about X not supporting your hardware-did the PB support your hardware (if you used it of course)? Aren't most of 10.0's shortcoming the same as the PB? There was no surprise to me. I don't think people are wiping up the crap and taking it from Apple, I just think that a lot of people don't feel scorned, or as bitter as you. That's where the disagreement begins, you are either satisfied or angry.

I don't regret for one minute buying 10.0, even knowing that I wouldn't be able to use it as my main OS for some time. That's not kissing Apple's a$$, that's just a consumer making an informed descion and being happy with his purchase. And no, it's not your fault I'm happy

[Scott_H]

Originally posted by Some Guy []:
<STRONG>Scott_h, i've come to the conclusion that you're nothing more then a misinformed kid that needs to be slapped around a bit more.</STRONG>

Kid? I'm 30. Misinformed? Yes by Apple when they said updates were coming. Slapped around more? I invite you to try

[xi_hyperon]

Can we set aside the name calling? Flaming accomplishes nothing except more flaming. Intelligent, even impassioned, debate is infinitely more interesting than simply calling one an idiot .

[Kickaha]

But xi... that breaks every rule on these boards!

Oh yeah...

*ahem* Scott's a big poopyhead. *ahem*

(Note to Scott: joking... )

[moki]

Originally posted by Scott_H:
<STRONG>I got less than what I paid for. There are no video card drivers for my graphics card. There's no sticker on the box that said "No Rage Pro drivers" Apple said my hardware is supported but it in fact it is not supported. This IS NOT MY FAULT, APPLE LIED!!!</STRONG>

Sorry Scott, but you were not lied to; you're making it personal, as if Apple set out to deceive you. If OS X runs on your computer, it is supported by Mac OS X -- you may not like how it works, but it does run, and Apple will answer your tech support questions.

Of course, just because OS X is supported on your Mac doesn't mean you'll want to run it if it isn't as optimal as you'd like.

If I had an iMac that I intended to run OS X on, and it ran OS X as poorly as yours apparently does, I'd be pissed too.

[kovacs]

If 10.1 will be too expensive I will download it from hotline, but I don't consider 20 $ to be too expensive for 3 discs of software. I prefer not to use Hotline but if the price is high they are not giving us any choice. I think that a price between 20 and 30 $ is reasonable for such an signifcant update.

[ 09-10-2001: Message edited by: kovacs ]