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turtle777 · May 17, 2008, 08:47 PM

... that they use all kinds of different power adapters and plugs.

WTF can't they all just use mini USB ? It would make things so much easier.
Most devices already have a USB plug to sync with computers, so there wouldn't even be the need for an extra plug. Just allow them to be charged via that plug.

-t

mindwaves · May 17, 2008, 08:55 PM

I don't get why a big electronics like my printer cannot use a standard power plug to the printer. Not like those cables are expensive; it's probably cheaper to go through that route for them.

turtle777 · May 17, 2008, 09:00 PM

Are you talking about a printer that also uses an external power adapter ?

Yeah, that's also stupid and unnecessary.

-t

ghporter · May 17, 2008, 10:21 PM

You have a lot in common with John Dvorak. He's written a number of columns about this issue-and he makes the same valid point: there's no reason there can't be at least the same kind of data connector on "cameras", the same kind of connector on "phones," and so on. Printers are pretty standard, why not small stuff? Power adapters are similar but with a twist: you can get adapters with identical connectors but wildly different voltages, which means you can accidentally blow up your nice consumer electronics by plugging the wrong adapter into it. Dvorak also has a rant about that-manufacturers should be required to at least label the adapters they ship with WHAT DEVICE THEY POWER. I've gone through a ton of label tape just marking the adapters I have at home; router, network drive, USB drive enclosure, Firewire enclosure, "ATA data adapter cable" kit, etc. It's crazy-and unnecessary.

turtle777 · May 17, 2008, 10:35 PM

Well, the reason why most adapters are not labeled is probably because they are generically manufactured in China, independently from the devices. All those adapter mfg. get is the spec, 5V 400mA and the spec for the plug, that's it.

It's a good idea, don't get me wrong, but using self-printed labels works for me as well.
At least I can fix this issue myself, unlike the lack of SUB charging

-t

JoshuaZ · May 17, 2008, 10:37 PM

Note to self... label things todays....

besson3c · May 17, 2008, 10:46 PM

So that when you lose your cable or it needs to be replaced for whatever reason, you have the privilege of paying the vendor for their proprietary cable?

turtle777 · May 17, 2008, 11:04 PM

Originally Posted by besson3c

So that when you lose your cable or it needs to be replaced for whatever reason, you have the privilege of paying the vendor for their proprietary cable?

Is that a question ?

-t

besson3c · May 17, 2008, 11:07 PM

It's a theory...

Hi Turtle777, how are you doing tonight? Enjoying your Saturday? Did you know that I live in Indiana too?

Do you like me?

turtle777 · May 17, 2008, 11:07 PM

Yes, good, yes, yes and maybe

-t

besson3c · May 17, 2008, 11:14 PM

Maybe we should get together sometime? I could have you over to my place, could cook up some Hamburger Helper, we could watch Star Trek...

Railroader · May 17, 2008, 11:58 PM

I live in Indiana too.

OreoCookie · May 18, 2008, 02:56 AM

I heard that in China, cell phone companies are obliged to use USB plugs to charge cell phones.

turtle777 · May 18, 2008, 03:09 AM

Originally Posted by OreoCookie

I heard that in China, cell phone companies are obliged to use USB plugs to charge cell phones.

China is the future. For real.

-t

angelmb · May 18, 2008, 04:27 AM

Luckily enough both my digicam and my cell phone use the same usb plug… now the fact than this blackberry sports its very own proprietary headphone plug… now that's just retarded, luckily enough I don't care iota about listening music on it…

OreoCookie · May 18, 2008, 07:18 AM

Well, I can connect my cell phone via a standard USB plug (which I always have with me when I travel, because chances are that my dslr is with me, too) to my computer, but I can't charge it.

alligator · May 18, 2008, 09:18 AM

I just purchased a GPS that uses a proprietary plug on one end and a USB connection on the other (just like iPods). I hate it when they do that. It is almost like they thought about making it a standard but gave up half way.

ghporter · May 18, 2008, 09:27 AM

Originally Posted by OreoCookie

Well, I can connect my cell phone via a standard USB plug (which I always have with me when I travel, because chances are that my dslr is with me, too) to my computer, but I can't charge it.

Many devices that connect via USB want to make sure they follow the USB standard and will only charge if they're really connected to a real USB hub-at least some iPods are like that. Why you can pass data but NOT CHARGE with your USB connection is manufacturing chicanery. They want you to pony up for their (probably $50+) charger, and they've gimicked both the phone and their charger to have some sort of secret handshake, without which the phone refuses to charge. A friend has a Windows Mobile phone that's that way, and it's a royal pain. Fortunately, the aftermarket industry figures these things out pretty quickly and inexpensive chargers wind up on the market pretty quickly, but that won't help your problem.

Originally Posted by alligator

I just purchased a GPS that uses a proprietary plug on one end and a USB connection on the other (just like iPods). I hate it when they do that. It is almost like they thought about making it a standard but gave up half way.

If the proprietary plug allows you to do a lot of other things (just like with iPods), that's one thing. Does this GPS have a speech output? Will it run an external display? Or is it just a proprietary plug because they want to sell you their proprietary cable?

analogika · May 18, 2008, 09:49 AM

Originally Posted by turtle777

Are you talking about a printer that also uses an external power adapter ?

Yeah, that's also stupid and unnecessary.

If you're gonna market it globally, it's WAY cheaper to throw in a different 80¢ wall wart or line lump for each market, than to build an auto-switching power supply into the device.

Dvorak's rants (at least the ones I've read) have been about IF you're gonna use an external adapter, *please* just make it a ****ing standard - 5V, whatever amperage, tip positive.

Since a bunch of devices here in the studio require 12V or 15V, have the standard power supply be, say, 15V, 800mA, and force all manufacturers to build their stuff with the appropriate voltage step-down.

Of course, making an 800mA power supply standard despite a device only needing 150mA adds to manufacturing cost, and shipping cost, since they're larger and heavier.

So that ain't gonna happen. Talking consumer market, after all - which is price-driven.

turtle777 · May 18, 2008, 11:59 AM

Originally Posted by analogika

Since a bunch of devices here in the studio require 12V or 15V, have the standard power supply be, say, 15V, 800mA, and force all manufacturers to build their stuff with the appropriate voltage step-down.

I wouldn't consider studio equipment a "consumer electronic", and I know that the power requirements (A or mA) can be significantly above the normal levels for mp3 players, GPS systems, cell phones and the like.

-t

ghporter · May 18, 2008, 04:35 PM

Throwing an appropriate wart in the box for whatever market is fine. But why not also throw in a label to put on that wart to say what the heck it's for? It's a royal pain to have to do this yourself, and how much can that sort of label cost when they make millions fo them? A fraction of a cent?

analogika · May 18, 2008, 05:37 PM

Originally Posted by turtle777

I wouldn't consider studio equipment a "consumer electronic", and I know that the power requirements (A or mA) can be significantly above the normal levels for mp3 players, GPS systems, cell phones and the like.

The stuff that requires wall-warts is mostly the cheapo/FX stuff. "Studio-grade" equipment is usually rack-mounted and does NOT require wall-warts.

turtle777 · May 20, 2008, 09:12 PM

Good news:

Switched On: Green Plug tries to replace the worry warts (Part 2) - Engadget

-t

Rumor · May 21, 2008, 01:17 AM

My Razr changes via USB when I am booted into OSX, but doesn't when booted into XP.

turtle777 · May 21, 2008, 10:37 AM

Originally Posted by Rumor

My Razr changes via USB when I am booted into OSX, but doesn't when booted into XP.

I have the a similar problem: my Moto L2 charges via USB on my iMac and iBook, but not on my work Dell. WTF ?

-t

analogue SPRINKLES · May 21, 2008, 10:43 AM

The reason I never used my iPod as a mass storage device is because I would have to know in advance that I was going to have to transfer something and bring the proprietary iPod cable.

turtle777 · May 21, 2008, 10:46 AM

This is a good point.

How hard would it be to have an additional mini USB port on iPods that could be used for charging and data transfer.

Wouldn't be nice looking, but very practical.

-t

analogue SPRINKLES · May 21, 2008, 10:48 AM

Originally Posted by turtle777

This is a good point.

How hard would it be to have an additional mini USB port on iPods that could be used for charging and data transfer.

Wouldn't be nice looking, but very practical.

-t

Well Apple new this was an issue so that is why they gave us the shuffle which I got partly as a mass storage device. Then came shuffle 2.0 that required you to haul an entire dock around.

olePigeon · May 21, 2008, 12:28 PM

Originally Posted by turtle777

... that they use all kinds of different power adapters and plugs.

WTF can't they all just use mini USB ? It would make things so much easier.
Most devices already have a USB plug to sync with computers, so there wouldn't even be the need for an extra plug. Just allow them to be charged via that plug.

-t

USB is almost as bad as the power adapters with the number of different USB connectors there are.

olePigeon · May 21, 2008, 12:32 PM

Of course, the easiest solution would be to just use FireWire. To hell with USB. It's great for keyboards and mice, but stop using it for storage and data transfer. It's being pushed into something it shouldn't be doing.

analogue SPRINKLES · May 21, 2008, 12:45 PM

Originally Posted by olePigeon

Of course, the easiest solution would be to just use FireWire. To hell with USB. It's great for keyboards and mice, but stop using it for storage and data transfer. It's being pushed into something it shouldn't be doing.

the plugs are bigger than almost all the ipods and iphones though.

turtle777 · May 21, 2008, 01:19 PM

Let's face it: FW is dead for most consumer products. No need to keep praising it for its robustness and merits. It ain't gonna happen.

-t

analogue SPRINKLES · May 21, 2008, 01:36 PM

Originally Posted by turtle777

Let's face it: FW is dead for most consumer products. No need to keep praising it for its robustness and merits. It ain't gonna happen.

-t

It is also going to die for most camcorders now as well. Sad considering it had almost all the video market for a long time.

Mostly apples fault though, high licensing, big plugs, newer formats not compatible with old etc..

olePigeon · May 21, 2008, 01:41 PM

Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES

It is also going to die for most camcorders now as well. Sad considering it had almost all the video market for a long time.

I just can't see USB in pro-audio and video equipment. If you're processing high bitrate video and/or audio, the last thing you want is for the connection to be dependent on your computer's CPU.

Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES

Mostly apples fault though, high licensing, big plugs, newer formats not compatible with old etc..

800 works on 400.

analogue SPRINKLES · May 21, 2008, 01:53 PM

Originally Posted by olePigeon

I just can't see USB in pro-audio and video equipment. If you're processing high bitrate video and/or audio, the last thing you want is for the connection to be dependent on your computer's CPU.

800 works on 400.

Well I said Camcorders which is a consumer thing. Pro uses proper cameras.

So 400 FW fits in an 800 slot and vise versa? News to me.

analogika · May 21, 2008, 02:39 PM

With a $4 adapter, 800 will fit in a 400 socket with no problems whatsoever.

Certainly no more annoying than the oh-so-universal serial bus's minimum four incarnations of semi-proprietary connectors, and the fact that USB devices WON'T work with all USB sockets - witness Sony-Ericsson mobiles requiring a computer USB port/hub to charge and just flat-out refusing to load off a generic USB power supply.

No such trouble with Firewire, ever. Firewire Just. ****ing. Works.

Which one's "Universal", eh?

analogue SPRINKLES · May 21, 2008, 02:41 PM

Originally Posted by analogika

Which one's "Universal", eh?

The one that more computers have I would think. So help me god if I was going around with Firewire only devices, I'd be lonely.

CharlesS · 03:02 PM

Originally Posted by analogika

With a $4 adapter, 800 will fit in a 400 socket with no problems whatsoever.

You don't even need an adapter - just use a cable that has a 9-pin connector on one end and a 6-pin on the other. Just like you have a 6-pin to 4-pin cable to connect to your camcorder, and just like you have special USB cables to connect the Type A, Type B, Mitsumi Mini-A, Hirose Mini-A, 5-pin Mini-B, Olympus 4-pin Mini-B, Fuji Mini-B, Fuji Mini-B Type 2, Micro-A, Micro-B, and the thing Wikipedia calls the "Mystery Micro Plug" to each other.

Eug · May 21, 2008, 03:18 PM

Originally Posted by OreoCookie

I heard that in China, cell phone companies are obliged to use USB plugs to charge cell phones.

Where did you hear that?

My friend buys all his phones in China and none of them have standard USB connectors.

analogika · May 21, 2008, 03:43 PM

Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES

The one that more computers have I would think.

It's nice that you would think so; perhaps my post didn't make it quite clear: I disagree.

I'd think that the one that invariably WORKS the way it's supposed to, with standardized connectors and functionality, is the "universal" one.

It really should be called "Ubiquitous Serial Bus", if you ask me.

analogika · May 21, 2008, 03:45 PM

Originally Posted by CharlesS

You don't even need an adapter - just use a cable that has a 9-pin connector on one end and a 6-pin on the other. Just like you have a 6-pin to 4-pin cable to connect to your camcorder

Those qualify as "adapters", as per my post, though the cable variety is usually more around $8 than $4.

Originally Posted by CharlesS

and just like you have special USB cables to connect the Type A, Type B, Mitsumi Mini-A, Hirose Mini-A, 5-pin Mini-B, Olympus 4-pin Mini-B, Fuji Mini-B, Fuji Mini-B Type 2, Micro-A, Micro-B, and the thing Wikipedia calls the "Mystery Micro Plug" to each other.

That's a pretty spectacular definition of "standard"!

analogue SPRINKLES · May 21, 2008, 03:53 PM

Originally Posted by analogika

It's nice that you would think so; perhaps my post didn't make it quite clear: I disagree.

I'd think that the one that invariably WORKS the way it's supposed to, with standardized connectors and functionality, is the "universal" one.

It really should be called "Ubiquitous Serial Bus", if you ask me.

Hey I like firewire also and I know it is a better technology. Problem is not even Apple is supporting it any more. They took it out of iPods and they don't put FW 800 on all the products. To make it even worse they don't even put it on the Airport Extreme or Time Capsule which is the only place I plug my externals into for NAS. Apple forced me to use USB.

analogika · May 21, 2008, 04:41 PM

Apple *has to* keep supporting Firewire.

Drop it, and they risk alienating *everybody* who was actually serious about buying a Mac for Logic and Final Cut Pro. For NAS, especially wireless NAS, the benefits are admittedly negligible.

olePigeon · May 21, 2008, 05:05 PM

Apple should team up with Intel and micronize the FireWire chipset. Make it so it can fit into devices like cell phones, the smaller iPods, etc. USB is horrible.

CharlesS · May 21, 2008, 05:35 PM

Unfortunately, USB is what we have. If Apple hadn't been greedy with their licensing fees, and if Apple had put FW (and later FW800) on all their Mac models to foster its popularity instead of only putting it on the very most expensive machines, USB 2.0 probably wouldn't even exist.

olePigeon · May 21, 2008, 05:45 PM

Originally Posted by CharlesS

Unfortunately, USB is what we have. If Apple hadn't been greedy with their licensing fees, and if Apple had put FW (and later FW800) on all their Mac models to foster its popularity instead of only putting it on the very most expensive machines, USB 2.0 probably wouldn't even exist.

It's still not too late, especially if they're in bed with Intel right now.

CharlesS · May 21, 2008, 05:48 PM

It pretty much is, IMO. Intel would rather work on USB 3.0 than improving FireWire, and FireWire's remaining niches are drying up.

olePigeon · May 21, 2008, 05:54 PM

Firewire, then HD-DVD. Why do consumers insist on supporting the worse of two formats?

CharlesS · May 21, 2008, 06:05 PM

My take is:

FireWire: Steve Jobs acted as if FireWire ruled the earth and there was no need for it to be competitive, even though USB was being pushed by the company that makes most PC motherboards.

HD-DVD: Was fighting against the giant Sony, who was fiercely determined not to get Betamaxed again.

analogue SPRINKLES · May 21, 2008, 06:26 PM

Originally Posted by olePigeon

It's still not too late, especially if they're in bed with Intel right now.

It is waaaaaay too late. The next step is wireless USB.