Welcome to the MacNN Forums.

CaptainHaddock · 01:30 PM

Like the title says, people at Macworld tried booting Windows install discs on the Intel machines there, but the Macs wouldn't boot from them — probably due to the machines' custom hardware and EFI firmware. So no easy dual-booting.

Which I'm happy about, actually.

Edit: forgive the multiple postings, the forums seem really unreliable lately.

Peter · Jan 11, 2006, 10:28 AM

Its been confirmed Apple will be letting you boot into windows, theres a thread in the lounge about it

JLL · Jan 11, 2006, 11:47 AM

Originally Posted by Peter

Its been confirmed Apple will be letting you boot into windows, theres a thread in the lounge about it

No, it's been confirmed by Apple (again) that they won't do anything to prevent Windows from booting, but since Windows doesn't support EFI yet, you can't install Windows on Macs.

JLL · Jan 11, 2006, 11:48 AM

Originally Posted by Peter

Its been confirmed Apple will be letting you boot into windows, theres a thread in the lounge about it

No, it's been confirmed by Apple (again) that they won't do anything to prevent Windows from booting, but since Windows doesn't support EFI yet, you can't install Windows on Macs.

CaptainHaddock · Jan 11, 2006, 01:30 PM

Yeah, Apple also doesn't do anything to prevent you from installing Windows on PowerPC Macs.

Eriamjh · Jan 11, 2006, 01:32 PM

A patch for Windows will be coming.... Have there been any PC-branded EFI machines announced or are they all still BIOS?

Tesseract · Jan 11, 2006, 02:35 PM

Originally Posted by CaptainHaddock

Yeah, Apple also doesn't do anything to prevent you from installing Windows on PowerPC Macs.

Well said.

I would be surprised if there's not a Windows-on-Mactel patch/enabler/etc. out within a couple of months, though.

leperkuhn · Jan 11, 2006, 02:41 PM

Originally Posted by CaptainHaddock

Like the title says, people at Macworld tried booting Windows install discs on the Intel machines there, but the Macs wouldn't boot from them — probably due to the machines' custom hardware and EFI firmware. So no easy dual-booting.

Which I'm happy about, actually.

Edit: forgive the multiple postings, the forums seem really unreliable lately.

I don't know why you would be happy by other people's inconvenience. Do you think that if a few people are dual booting into windows developers are suddenly going to give up on making OSX native apps?

Chuckit · Jan 11, 2006, 02:53 PM

Does this mean VMware is also out of the picture?

P · 03:33 PM

Originally Posted by Chuckit

Does this mean VMware is also out of the picture?

You mean because of EFI? No. Doesn't matter to them.

alphasubzero949 · Jan 11, 2006, 06:07 PM

Linux can still boot using EFI. I guess there is a way to run Windows that way (VMware, WINE).

Horsepoo!!! · Jan 11, 2006, 06:13 PM

Originally Posted by leperkuhn

I don't know why you would be happy by other people's inconvenience. Do you think that if a few people are dual booting into windows developers are suddenly going to give up on making OSX native apps?

I don't. But a lot of people seem to think so. I'm happy by other people's inconvenience only if they were the ones proclaiming doom upon Mac software and gaming. To the others, I feel for you.

Vista will probably work though if it's any consolation. If you're planning to dual boot, you'll have to wait a year.

This should provide enough time for Apple to build up developer confidence instead of losing it to dual-booters that will simply run Windows apps (not that I believed that scenario anyway).

Eug Wanker · Jan 11, 2006, 11:57 PM

Yeah, it's ironic that the only way to run Windows on a Mac is to buy a PowerPC Mac (with Virtual PC).

Millennium · Jan 13, 2006, 11:16 AM

For now, at least, there isn't going to be a way to boot Windows on an Intel Mac. Windows just isn't capable of booting from EFI.

However, I suggest that people who wish to dual-boot watch the QEMU project. Despite its roots as an emulator, the author also has a plugin which lets it act as a virtualizer on x86-based machines. That is to say, it doesn't need to use emulation to run a "virtual" x86 machine if the machine behind it is actually an x86 box. If this could be made to emulate just the BIOS -which doesn't seem too far out of reach- then you could install Windows and run it natively inside of QEMU.

The "QEMU Accelerator" is only supported on QEMU/Linux at the moment, but an initial QEMU/Windows port of the Accelerator is available. Given this, I wouldn't be surprised if a QEMU/OSX(Intel-only) port of the Accelerator were forthcoming. My guess is that if and when that happens, it will be the first option available for people who want to dual-boot Windows and OSX.

CaptainHaddock · Jan 13, 2006, 12:22 PM

Originally Posted by leperkuhn

I don't know why you would be happy by other people's inconvenience. Do you think that if a few people are dual booting into windows developers are suddenly going to give up on making OSX native apps?

It's not your inconvenience I'm happy about. I'm happy that Apple won't be tempted to make more concessions on hardware design because dual-booting becomes widespread and Windows users demand better compatibility. I'd like to keep the Mac from becoming another Windows ghetto.

You want to hack your Mac with special BIOS emulators and other tricks to make Windows run, that's terrific, and I hope you figure out how. I think Windows will be pretty fast under Intel-native Virtual PC too.

shunt · Jan 13, 2006, 05:39 PM

I don't see what the big deal is about not booting windows, all Mac users I know also own a PC of some kind and are fluent in Windows.

But, even if they did boot someday, will this really help anyone? I mean aside from a novelty or occasional use I find I usually need an OSX machine and a Winbox running side by side...not one or the other. Can you imagine how many times you'll be rebooting?

Futrhermore, my weenie friends really want OSX to run on their cheap hardware...that is their biggest hope and is why I think the EFI decision was made, especially after they saw how quickly the dev stuff was hacked run on non -apple hardware.

Chuckit · Jan 13, 2006, 06:00 PM

Originally Posted by shunt

I don't see what the big deal is about not booting windows, all Mac users I know also own a PC of some kind and are fluent in Windows.

I don't own a PC anymore.

Originally Posted by shunt

But, even if they did boot someday, will this really help anyone? I mean aside from a novelty or occasional use I find I usually need an OSX machine and a Winbox running side by side...not one or the other. Can you imagine how many times you'll be rebooting?

Every time I want to play a game? Or use any other program that only runs on Windows?

Originally Posted by shunt

Futrhermore, my weenie friends really want OSX to run on their cheap hardware...that is their biggest hope and is why I think the EFI decision was made, especially after they saw how quickly the dev stuff was hacked run on non -apple hardware.

It's more likely because ordinary BIOS doesn't support all the features Apple wanted.

tooki · Jan 13, 2006, 06:24 PM

This isn't discussing Mac OS X.

tooki