[Hawkeye_a]

Most of us know what Bluray is, and many of us know(or can guess) what Apple's stance on the technology is.

Breaking form, i think this is one of the few things that i disagree with regarding Apple's decisions.

While physical media will become less relevant as we go forward, i dont think it will disappear or become a minority, in the way content is distributed until our generation is ...gone.

Given the DRM on movies sold online via services like iTunes, i personally prefer to buy my content on physical media(DVDs/BluRay).

When it comes to business processes for video editing firms, i think deliverables are still predominantly on physical media. So expecting those businesses and their customers to change their models is not very consumer friendly, imho.

While i realize that Apple would have to implement drivers and software to support this technology, not to mention the licensing, i think they need to, at the very least, make this a BTO option on their Pro machines for the video professionals.

The lack of any third party stepping upto the plate and offering a complete solution (movie playback, burning, reading, etc) that plug into the Finder, iMovie, FCP, iTunes, etc.... is very disappointing as well imho.

Do you guys think BluRay should at least be a BTO on Macs ? I think it should.

Discuss.

[downinflames68]

Yes.

[Brien]

I want it, but I'm not going to get it.

[PB2K]

I hate all media that comes on a disk. Since vhs people spend their time boring their guests by configuring their home-cinema. then you have to watch anti-piracy clips you can't skip. In the end the video ends up as a rip on my harddisk, from where it is much more convenient to use with VLC.

I don't care so much about a crisp picture quality, I'll watch the movie in the theater if it's any good. I wouldn't again consider buying a movie on disk. Perhaps the movie sellers should invest in better streams, or even take shares in internet providers, it ends up as a download anyhow. just anything but resorting to old type media like DVD and Blueray.

[Buckaroo]

Isn't the real issue, all of the file copy restrictions that Apple would have to put in place would hurt consumers. Blu-Ray DRM sucks, and it's almost dead anyhow. Get a cheap Windows computer with Blu-Ray.

[turtle777]

The "physical media" issue can be solved by data sticks. Prices are coming down fast enough to be a smart, small and capable medium.

-t

[ort888]

It's kind of funny that the $800 multimedia computer Apple sells doesn't even have a Blu-ray player.

It's time for them to make the jump.

What's funny is that when they finally do, they are going to be touting it like it's some sort of big deal. Ooooh, look at us! We added Blu-ray! Ooohh... how 2008 of you.

Do Blu-ray "superdrives" exist? Ones that can burn and play Blu-rays and DVDs? How much is a blank Blu-ray disc anyway?

[The Final Dakar]

There needs to be an option for "I don't care." Because I don't. I stopped buying DVDs years ago in preparation for Blu-Ray (with exception for old SD TV Shows). You know what? I grew to like not buying DVDs.

Then Netflix came along. For now I am content. I don't get to watch movies in really crisp HD and surround sound, but the selection of movies I really want to see that way and the occasion to do so are so rare as to be a virtual non-factor. WIll I buy a Blu-Ray player? Yes - one day I will pick up a PS3, and I figure I will pick up a few of my favorites for home theater consumption.

Bottom line is, I just got a iMac and if there had been an option for a Blu-Ray I probably would have passed and saved the $200 (or whatever) rather than future-proof myself for a future I'm not sure I'm joining (Not that I watch movies on my iMac anyway).

So yeah, long story shot: I don't care.

[osiris]

I still use betamax. What kind of tape does "BluRay" use?

I kid.

[Phileas]

I don't care. I can't remember the last time I bought a DVD. I realize that downloading movies (legally I hasten to add) doesn't give us the same image quality, but that's fine with me.

[Brien]

Originally Posted by ort888 

Do Blu-ray "superdrives" exist? Ones that can burn and play Blu-rays and DVDs? How much is a blank Blu-ray disc anyway?

Yep, they exist. Blank discs are around $7 each. They were 4x that two years ago.

[PB2K]

The shiny disk is just a vehicle to have a sellable mediacarrier. It belongs to an era in which consumers could awe their guests by showing their 'collection', represented by a colorful wall of dvdcases. (Its for people who have a hole in their hand) That era is officially over, shops that specialize in music-cd's and movie-dvd's are about to become very marginalized. You can't blame consumers for becoming smarter than the seller.
I have never been impressed by dvd, as it can't hold much data and takes too much time to create, even on a 16 speed recordable. Not to forget the duallayer and bluray disks that fail to complete because of a writing error. It just takes about 15 minutes to download a HD file over a 20mbit connection though.

[The Final Dakar]

Originally Posted by PB2K 

The shiny disk is just a vehicle to have a sellable mediacarrier. It belongs to an era in which consumers could awe their guests by showing their 'collection', represented by a colorful wall of dvdcases.

Isn't that essentially what coverflow is anyway?

[Uncle Skeleton]

Originally Posted by Brien 

Yep, they exist. Blank discs are around $7 each. They were 4x that two years ago.

Actually they're around $2 each on newegg, if you buy 10 or more. A few weeks ago I got 10 for $12.

[The Final Dakar]

I'm not exactly sure what Blu-Ray (data storage) is useful for over HDs and thumb drives. Disposable and low cost to give away, I guess, but then again, the recipient has to have Blu-Ray too.

[SSharon]

Bluray would have been nice the other day when I had to burn 7 DVDs worth of video content to mail to someone, but other than that I voted no because I don't ever see myself using BR for movie watching. For times when I need to send 50+GB I'll put it on an external drive and mail that instead.

I wouldn't be upset if Apple added it BTO, but I wouldn't pay $200 for it (and we all know it will be overpriced).

[ort888]

At the current cost they aren't that useful, but if they were comparable to DVDs, then they would be great.

I remember when a blank CD-R was about $5 bucks.

[PB2K]

but how fast will it flawlessly burn 20 gigs?

[The Final Dakar]

So fast it'll seem like it didn't even do it at all.

[Uncle Skeleton]

Originally Posted by ort888 

At the current cost they aren't that useful, but if they were comparable to DVDs, then they would be great.

I remember when a blank CD-R was about $5 bucks.

They're already comparable in price to dual layer DVDs and hard drives (about 5¢/GB for all, at the best deal you can find lately) if you only count the media and not the burner. Single layer DVDs are still cheaper for some reason. I got my burner last week for $90 (refurb, and it's sold out now). I figure now I can read Blurays from netflix if I want, and it's only about $30 more than I would have had to pay for that ability if I got a BD-Rom, so I'm comfortable ignoring the cost of the actual drive.

One thing I'm still wondering about is longevity; they haven't been available long enough for real-world testing. So I'm keeping a copy on BD-R and a copy on HDD. I figure two methods are better than 2 of the same method.

[The Final Dakar]

Speaking of CDs and DVDs, I must have like 75 and 25 blanks of each sitting in my house collecting dust.

[ort888]

We burn all of our backups to DVD. Since 2004, we have amassed a catalog of 750 DVDs.

I'm the guy in charge off backing the stuff up and cataloging it. Personally, I would love to move to Blu-ray, I would have thought we would have been there by now, but until all of our Macs can read them and at least one can burn them... it's a no go... and that ain't happening in the next 2 or 3 years. That's for sure.

I really think it might be time to move to a growing series of 2TB external drives some form of automated off-site backup service.

[Uncle Skeleton]

Originally Posted by ort888 

We burn all of our backups to DVD. Since 2004, we have amassed a catalog of 750 DVDs.

Do you periodically check/survey the older ones to estimate a failure rate? Just curious. One time I found out that one carton of DVDs was unreadable on my main machine... a few hectic days later I determined that they still work fine on all the other computers in the house, it's only the drive that wrote them (!) that can't play them, new or old.

Personally, I would love to move to Blu-ray, I would have thought we would have been there by now, but until all of our Macs can read them and at least one can burn them... it's a no go...

If you just get one BD writer, you can put it in a USB enclosure (or cheaper adapter) and use it on all computers. That's what I'm doing.

[ort888]

I do worry about disc-rot. We have 2 of each disc (one off site), keep them out of the sun and use a proper CD marking pen. Beyond that, we're really just chancing it. So far we've been fine.

750 x 4.25 gigs = 3.2TB

I could fit it all on two 2TB drives and avoid all of that time and effort. We would only need a new drive every few years... It would cost a bit more but not that much really. I need to talk to my boss...

EDIT: And I just did and he said go for it. So long DVDs.

[hyteckit]

I don't care option.

Hard drives these days are so cheap.

2TB external drive for under $120.

[indigoimac]

Should be BTO on Mac Pros for those who don't want to deal with externals...premium, most-versatile machine, premium option...simple as that. Useless in laptops, negligible in the iMac due to the slot loading drive, useless in the Mac Mini except for those HTPC folks.

That said, pretty much a niche market and it's likely to stay that way. At least for the Mac Pros you can cheaply and easily swap out the internal 5.25" anyway, so it's not really mission critical for Apple to deal with it. Or get an external, just like if you want a drive that doesn't blow if your machine has a slot loader.

Also BluRay in a usb enclosure is dumb -- usb doesn't have the throughput, so esata or fw800 minimum (don't know what would be above that atm, but yeah...) You can saturate usb2 with a dvd practically.

[Uncle Skeleton]

Originally Posted by indigoimac 

Also BluRay in a usb enclosure is dumb -- usb doesn't have the throughput, so esata or fw800 minimum (don't know what would be above that atm, but yeah...) You can saturate usb2 with a dvd practically.

I don't think that's right. My BD drive is 6x, which is 216 Mbps. That's way less than USB 2's 480 Mbps nominal rate. Maybe if you have a 12x BD drive you would have to think about that, if you actually plan to use all 12 x's. I don't know how you think you're saturating a USB 2 connection with just a DVD.

[lpkmckenna]

I don't care whether they add it as an option or not, so I didn't vote.

[sek929]

Originally Posted by The Final Dakar 

Speaking of CDs and DVDs, I must have like 75 and 25 blanks of each sitting in my house collecting dust.

I have almost a full 100pk spindle of DVD-Rs collecting dust.

[PB2K]

or Rust, I've sent a load of pre-recorded disks to a hotel near a beach, not only did the computers' metal components rust excessive because of the salt sea air, all cd's became transparent too. only the plastic remained.

[Big Mac]

It should be available from Apple as a BTO option, but it should not be standard.

[Lateralus]

As a consumer, I have something of a hankering for Blu-ray. But I'm also keen to see the format pushed aside in favour of equal-quality digital content, which happens to be Apple's agenda and long-term goal. So I like to think that the more companies with Apple's clout ignore Blu-ray, the sooner the entire industry will move away from spinning pieces of plastic.

[Hawkeye_a]

While the move away from discs is inevitable, I think quality and content rights(for movies specifically) need to be brought upto par with owning the same content on physical media, before I buy movie content online. I honestly desperately want to experience buying a movie through iTunes, but I cannot justify it, as that content is indefinitely tied to apple products(with music, the option to put it onto a cd is there).

According to the poll right now, It seems many of you do not want blu ray, so tomorrow, if Apple were to switch every Mac with a dvd superdrive to a blu ray SuperDrive, would you be disappointed and like/want the product less?

As long as macs come with optical drives, personally, I'd prefer a blurry drive over a DVD any day.

Cheers

[Wiskedjak]

Originally Posted by PB2K 

I don't care so much about a crisp picture quality,

I find BluRay picture quality to be TOO crisp. Crisper than reality, I think. Everything looks either animated or like an 80's era Canadian movie (minus the visible boom microphone).

[Eug]

For reliability, a lot of people say DVD-R and CD-R reliablity long term is bad. Well, I would say that much cheap DVD-R and CD-R is bad, but my good quality media is still going strong after 10 years.

So, I buy cheap media for quick and dirty copies, but for my archival backups I use the higher end stuff (which often costs about twice as much or more unfortunately).

Can't comment on BD-R, because I haven't bought a burner yet. I will get one probably next year or so.

As for movies, I much prefer discs to downloads overall. Downloads are convenient in some instances, and a royal pain in others (esp. when there are bandwidth issues), and the quality isn't up to par IMO. I'm biased though because I use a projector for some of my HD movie viewing.

[-Q-]

Originally Posted by Hawkeye_a 

According to the poll right now, It seems many of you do not want blu ray, so tomorrow, if Apple were to switch every Mac with a dvd superdrive to a blu ray SuperDrive, would you be disappointed and like/want the product less?

I'd think most of the 'do not want' would also fall into the 'do not care' category. I honestly wouldn't care if a blu-ray drive found it's way into my next mac or not so long as it didn't negatively impact the price I was paying. The odds of me using it for much of anything is small, outside of *possibly* trying it out on my Mac Mini for the HTPC set-up. And even then it would likely be "eh, the HD streams are *good enough* for me; I don't see the need to get blu-ray discs."

[Wiskedjak]

Originally Posted by -Q- 

I'd think most of the 'do not want' would also fall into the 'do not care' category.

As long as Apple doesn't introduce it as the next greatest thing they just came up with and force it onto everyone with a $200 markup.

[Eug]

Just make it optional and problem solved.

I might still not get it built-in though. I'd probably just get an external drive, to use on multiple computers.

[The Final Dakar]

Originally Posted by Hawkeye_a 

if Apple were to switch every Mac with a dvd superdrive to a blu ray SuperDrive, would you be disappointed and like/want the product less?

if Apple were to switch every Mac with 4GB of RAM to 8 GB of RAM, would you be disappointed and like/want the product less?

[Hawkeye_a]

Originally Posted by -Q- 

I'd think most of the 'do not want' would also fall into the 'do not care' category. I honestly wouldn't care if a blu-ray drive found it's way into my next mac or not so long as it didn't negatively impact the price I was paying. The odds of me using it for much of anything is small, outside of *possibly* trying it out on my Mac Mini for the HTPC set-up. And even then it would likely be "eh, the HD streams are *good enough* for me; I don't see the need to get blu-ray discs."

Oh yea, it is also my opinion, that if apple is serious about competing for the home theater set top box(and not just a hobby), they need to address bluray movie playback, IMHO. Right now,I recommend a ps3 over appletv primarily because of bluray(codec support being another reason).

A tiny tangent here...usually we witness companies release hardware with poor services to back it up. In the case of appletv and the iTMS movie store, I think we have the opposite phenomenon. Hopefully the recent rumors regarding the appletv are true, but a lack of a DVD+bluray drive will prevent me from buying one.

[Hawkeye_a]

Originally Posted by The Final Dakar 

if Apple were to switch every Mac with 4GB of RAM to 8 GB of RAM, would you be disappointed and like/want the product less?

Exactly my point. Now if apple is serious about a drive less future....what's stopping them from getting rid of optical drives altogether?

I guess my point is, as long as there are optical drives in these machines being sold.... I'd rather have bluray in 2010. There's nothing stopping them from advancing the drive less future as well concurrently, IMHO.

[The Final Dakar]

Originally Posted by Hawkeye_a 

Exactly my point. Now if apple is serious about a drive less future....what's stopping them from getting rid of optical drives altogether?

I guess my point is, as long as there are optical drives in these machines being sold.... I'd rather have bluray in 2010. There's nothing stopping them from advancing the drive less future as well concurrently, IMHO.

Dude, people still have their legacy discs. How are they going to watch/listen/rip them with no drive?

Right now you sound like you want cut-off your DVD nose to spite your Blu-Ray-less face.

[Eug]

If you want a drive, may as well make it Blu-ray, since Blu-ray drives work with DVDs and CDs anyway.

[The Final Dakar]

Originally Posted by Eug 

If you want a drive, may as well make it Blu-ray, since Blu-ray drives work with DVDs and CDs anyway.

If it doesn't increase the cost of the product.

And I don't want to hear whining if it doesn't support Blu-Ray movie playback.

[Eug]

Originally Posted by The Final Dakar 

If it doesn't increase the cost of the product.

That's the point of optional configure-to-order upgrades.

That said, when Apple added SuperDrives to PowerBooks, you weren't forced to get it, but you had to get if you wanted the fastest PowerBook model. I could see Apple do that with iMacs and MacBook Pros.

And I don't want to hear whining if it doesn't support Blu-Ray movie playback.

I will whine.

[The Final Dakar]

Originally Posted by Eug 

That's the point of optional configure-to-order upgrades.

This makes no sense in relation to "If you want a drive, might as well make it Blu-Ray."

[exca1ibur]

Blu-ray burners go for about $130 retail. In bulk I'm sure they can get them for under $100. Wouldn't break the bank to have a 'Pro' machine live up to its name and have one, without costing the customer their first born. Since they are like 2 years late to the party, the cost part isn't a major factor. It's all ego here, nothing more.

[Eug]

Originally Posted by The Final Dakar 

This makes no sense in relation to "If you want a drive, might as well make it Blu-Ray."

Sure it does. If you are supporting drives in your machines, you may as well give your customers (like me) an option to have Blu-ray. There is NO downside hardware-wise to having Blu-ray in the machine other than extra cost... which would be borne by the buyer - but only those who actually want it. By going Blu-ray, you do not lose DVD or CD support.

[The Final Dakar]

Originally Posted by Eug 

Sure it does. If you are supporting drives in your machines, you may as well give your customers (like me) an option to have Blu-ray. There is NO downside hardware-wise to having Blu-ray in the machine other than extra cost... which would be borne by the buyer - but only those who actually want it. By going Blu-ray, you do not lose DVD or CD support.

This has nothing to do with what hawkeye and I were talking about. (Not that the argument doesn't have merit, it's just that its incredibly old and brings nothing new to the table)

Originally Posted by exca1ibur 

Blu-ray burners go for about $130 retail. In bulk I'm sure they can get them for under $100. Wouldn't break the bank to have a 'Pro' machine live up to its name and have one, without costing the customer their first born. Since they are like 2 years late to the party, the cost part isn't a major factor. It's all ego here, nothing more.

I'm not sure its about ego, so much as strategy. is the lack of an optical drive on the Apple TV about ego?

[mduell]

When it was $800 for a drive I get not offering one given the limited usefullness.

Now that it's $60 for a reader and $120 for a writer, it's just an iTMS scam.