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l008com · Aug 30, 2011, 10:42 PM

Seriously. I have a G5 Xserve living in a data center about 1500 miles from home. It's been acting a little funny lately, and I'd love to give the OS a clean install. So of all the ways to get that done over 1500 miles, the best way I've been able to come up with is this: Install a clean OS on a nearly identical machine. Get everything just right. Then make a .dmg of this clean OS. Upload that to my server's backup drive. Reboot the server off it's backup drive, and restore the .dmg I uploaded, to the machine's primary drive. Then restore all of the email, web and database data. And I should be good to go.

So I need a G5 Xserve. For maybe a week, two at most. Just long enough to install and set-up a server on it. I looked on craigslist but there were none there. But if you're in the Boston area, I've much rather borrow one, than buy, just to in the end have ONE MORE computer sitting around the house

imitchellg5 · Aug 30, 2011, 11:10 PM

Why can't you just make a bootable .dmg of the OS X install disc and then boot the Xserve off of it?

l008com · Aug 30, 2011, 11:25 PM

Because I can't run the installer remotely. And I want physical access to the machine when I'm installing it, that way I can be sure everything is going smooth.
(I know you can connected to the OS X Server installer via remote desktop, but this server is directly on the internet, it doesn't use DHCP, so that won't work for me)

besson3c · Aug 31, 2011, 12:21 AM

I know you don't want to hear this, but if I were you I'd work on reproducing your environment in a Linux based VM as a backup plan in case the day ever comes that you can't find a place to host a Mac Mini and XServes become scarce and/or completely obsolete, or the host that you have that has your Mac racked just starts to suck.

Setting up mail, web stuff, and email is not all that hard in Linux, and with a VM image you can take your VM to a whole host of companies: Amazon, Rackspace, Linode, Slicehost, etc. where you'd have the equivalent of physical access to the machine. This seems like a smart insurance policy and safety net. If it were me, I'd be very, very nervous about running a business on Mac servers at this point.

I say this now because maybe now is a good time to work on this?

FireWire · Aug 31, 2011, 12:50 AM

Waragainstsleep · Aug 31, 2011, 10:59 AM

I have Xserve G4s if thats any good. I could build you a fresh Leopard Server install and dmg it. Might take a while to upload though.

l008com · Sep 5, 2011, 05:09 AM

Originally Posted by Waragainstsleep

I have Xserve G4s if thats any good. I could build you a fresh Leopard Server install and dmg it. Might take a while to upload though.

That really won't work. The idea is that I need to set up EVERYTHING. My whole server. So I can just upload it to my server and restore. For this wacky plan to work, I really need a G5 Xserve in my possession for at least a week, maybe two. Plus it will let me load-test some more RAM so I can send that to the data center too.

Waragainstsleep · Sep 5, 2011, 07:07 AM

Well, I could probably give you remote access to configure it but not for two weeks. The image should work fine on a G5.

Might be easier to find a local G5 tower to test your RAM in.

l008com · Oct 24, 2011, 06:48 AM

So my server has been going through phases of normal running, then phases of finicky behavior. It will run flawlessly just long enough to make you think your best bet is to just let it be, then it will 'get weird' and need a hard reboot. But I believe I've come up with an ideal solution that I can pull off in one busy night. This server has three drives. Two in a mirrored raid, the primary drive. And one single that is the backup drive. It's the backup because that's where the server stores backups of itself. But the backup drive is also bootable, and is configured just like the main server (with the proper IP info and services active) so I can boot back and forth between the two drives. For example, I can reboot the server off the backup, then re-connect remotely to what is now the server booted off it's backup drive, and run disk warrior on the primary drive, then reboot back off the primary drive.

So I'm going to boot off the backup drive. Run all of the software update. Then boot back off the primary. Make a .dmg backup of the backup drive, mine all of the 'backups'. [triple backup word score] Then I'll boot off the backup drive, and restore my DMG over the primary volume. Then spend the night restoring all my services. By the time the sun comes up, my server should be right back to that "mint condition" I enjoyed for the first 1+ year of it's service.

And if that doesn't work, I guess my mail will be going to GMAIL and my sites will be coming home to my home server (i do have 25/25, just don't tell my ISP what I'm using it for) until a better solution comes a long.

Back in the day, I used to host everything out of my home server. And, my first home server, that hosted the very first iteration of www.whatsmyip.org was a quadra 700 running OS 8.1, the web server was OS8's web sharing, and the part of the site that showed you your IP was actually a full-blown applescript.

Hopefully thing's don't get that bad

besson3c · Oct 24, 2011, 07:18 AM

I hope so too!

Either you seem to want to ignore me and the advice I've given you to get off of OS X Server (perhaps you don't like me or something), or else you don't want to face this, or both, but at any rate you seem to want to do things your way which I totally understand. Best of luck!

l008com · Oct 24, 2011, 03:19 PM

I ignore you because I don't want my threads hi-jacked into a linux vs os x thread, when my threads are about specific topics. For a whole slew of very good reasons, I'm not switching to linux, I'm sticking with OS X. Even if I have to run OS X client eventually, and manage apache manually like I used to back in the day. That will still be a superior solution to running Linux. So unless you know of someone that will let me run Mac OS X VMs (which is a possibility), there's really no point in repeatedly suggesting I switch to linux. Plus, running a VM won't really help the actual problem I've been having. A virtual OS can get "messed up" just like a non-virtual one. Then you still have the problem of what to DO with it.

besson3c · Oct 24, 2011, 04:38 PM

Originally Posted by l008com

I ignore you because I don't want my threads hi-jacked into a linux vs os x thread, when my threads are about specific topics. For a whole slew of very good reasons, I'm not switching to linux, I'm sticking with OS X. Even if I have to run OS X client eventually, and manage apache manually like I used to back in the day. That will still be a superior solution to running Linux.

The reason why I keep suggesting Linux (or FreeBSD or the like) is because doing the kind of stuff you are doing the last thing you want to be is the lone wolf on his own with nobody else to lean on and get support from. Eventually this could very well be the case for you as OS X Server gets further and further away from the days of being supported properly (including having suitable hardware available to run off of). The fact that you are asking to borrow hardware should be enough of a warning sign in and of itself.

The other reason is because in light of this there and otherwise there is no great reason to not run Linux or the like. You could literally just transfer over your configuration files you build in OS X Server or Client to Linux/FreeBSD (if you used FreeBSD they would be similar to OS X's), change a few paths, make sure all the packages you need are installed, restart your services, and you'd be set. You'd have the benefit of 293048029384 hosts to choose from, the option to save a significant amount of money each month in running VMs (not to mention the convenience of having snapshots, console access, etc.), and you'd be on a platform that people actually use. What is the downside?

This is not zealotry, just pragmatism. No offense, but running a business while depending on borrowing hardware for a platform that is no longer supported, which will not change anytime soon, is madness. If you are having problems finding hosts that will colo XServes you will have even greater difficulty hosting a Mac Mini.

So unless you know of someone that will let me run Mac OS X VMs (which is a possibility), there's really no point in repeatedly suggesting I switch to linux. Plus, running a VM won't really help the actual problem I've been having. A virtual OS can get "messed up" just like a non-virtual one. Then you still have the problem of what to DO with it.

Sure it would. If you put the OS data on its own partition and take snapshots of this you could just roll back when you encounter a problem. If you don't notice the problem while you still have an active snapshot you can also reproduce your environment locally for testing. Can you easily reproduce your current environment?

besson3c · Oct 28, 2011, 01:25 AM

l008: I take it you're not interested in continuing this conversation?

l008com · Oct 28, 2011, 01:26 AM

Correct. I'm not going to waste my time arguing about why linux won't work for me.

besson3c · Oct 28, 2011, 01:35 AM

Originally Posted by l008com

Correct. I'm not going to waste my time arguing about why linux won't work for me.

Suit yourself, but for the life of me I can't fathom what a good reason would be given your unfortunate circumstances (I also suggested FreeBSD as an alternative, but I'm assuming your same reasons would apply).

Waragainstsleep · Oct 28, 2011, 05:11 AM

I'm with I008com. Not for any reason I care to rationalise, but I just can't be bothered with Linux until I absolutely have to.

besson3c · Oct 28, 2011, 05:38 AM

Originally Posted by Waragainstsleep

I'm with I008com. Not for any reason I care to rationalise, but I just can't be bothered with Linux until I absolutely have to.

I guess I understand your reluctance, but when will it be that you absolutely have to? The XServe is no more, OS X Server doesn't seem to be evolving a great deal, finding an abundance of options of data centers that will rack a Mac Mini is probably a challenge, and eventually all XServe warranties and support contracts will expire if not so already. It seems like "absolutely have to" is now, unless you expect the situation to get any better?

Waragainstsleep · Oct 28, 2011, 11:49 AM

I deal with smaller businesses so as long as I can share files and provide email etc, I'm pretty much ok. Lion Server is actually pretty useful for iOS deployments too. I actually prefer Kerio to provide my exchange-esque mail and that doesn't even require a Server OS to install.

I actually have a Mac Pro in place now with a Windows Server 2003 domain controller running from it for one customer. Its seamless to them and VMWare snapshots and TM keep it backed up nicely.

I guess Apple would have to kill off OS X Server completely in order to deny me more sophisticated file and DNS services for the occasions I need them in order to force me to abandon Apple for servers. I don't think they will kill of OS X server though. I worried for a bit, but if nothing else, iOS MDM will keep it alive.

besson3c · 04:44 PM

Originally Posted by Waragainstsleep

I deal with smaller businesses so as long as I can share files and provide email etc, I'm pretty much ok. Lion Server is actually pretty useful for iOS deployments too. I actually prefer Kerio to provide my exchange-esque mail and that doesn't even require a Server OS to install.

I actually have a Mac Pro in place now with a Windows Server 2003 domain controller running from it for one customer. Its seamless to them and VMWare snapshots and TM keep it backed up nicely.

I guess Apple would have to kill off OS X Server completely in order to deny me more sophisticated file and DNS services for the occasions I need them in order to force me to abandon Apple for servers. I don't think they will kill of OS X server though. I worried for a bit, but if nothing else, iOS MDM will keep it alive.

If some PC in the office approach is sufficient for them as far as a server goes, great... I don't think I'd want to support a setup like that though.

Athens · Oct 28, 2011, 07:26 PM

Originally Posted by Waragainstsleep

I'm with I008com. Not for any reason I care to rationalise, but I just can't be bothered with Linux until I absolutely have to.

Thats pretty much the same for me. I just retired my last Linux Server box a few months ago too. The Linux I have installed on my laptop gets booted up once a month to run updates and nothing else. Really should just remove it.

1U Server Rack for Mac Mini isn't a problem either http://www.sonnettech.com/product/rackmacmini.html

besson3c · Oct 28, 2011, 09:28 PM

Kind of irrelevant though. Just to prevent this thread from getting weird, this is not a OS X vs. Linux thread, nor is any of what I've said really a matter of opinion, really. The bottom line are these simple facts:

- If you don't need to have your machine racked in a controlled environment (like Waragainstsleep), great, run whatever you want

- If you do need rackable bonafide server hardware, the XServe is kind of a dead end street at this point.

- If the hardware in a Mac Mini is sufficient and you can find a host you trust willing to rack a Mini for you, great. My point was simply that there are fewer options here, and clearly fewer with the discontinued XServe at this point as well

This is all I'm saying so stuff about Linux on a laptop, Linux in general, Linux vs. OS X Server, running a Mac Pro out of an office, etc. is not really applicable to what I'm saying. It's not my thread, so have at it if you want to discuss this, but don't make it a "I disagree with besson3c" thing, because there is nothing to disagree with in these particular areas.

If you disagree with my suggestion to the OP about not running a business off of OS X Server at this point given the lack of available hardware (not even getting into the merits of OS X Server of which I've made my opinions well known), then that would be something we can actually talk about.

If you think the Mini has enough CPU and RAM for you, great, but you'll also need a NAS or something other than a single disk to run off of in a RAID array, because relying on a single disk is madness, so you'll have to factor in racking some external device as well.

l008com · Oct 28, 2011, 10:03 PM

So you derail the thread, criticize others for following your derailment, then continue derailing it.
Niceeeeeeeeeee

besson3c · Oct 28, 2011, 10:16 PM

How so? It started as you wanting to borrow a G5 XServe, and then you seemed to give up on that and started sharing your plan for working around not having one, at which point I gave you the suggestion that you change course since there isn't much of a future in a discontinued product.

Because you seem insecure on the matter doesn't make it appropriate to be rude to somebody who is just trying to help.

Athens · Oct 28, 2011, 10:30 PM

Originally Posted by l008com

So you derail the thread, criticize others for following your derailment, then continue derailing it.
Niceeeeeeeeeee

Yup, I left out details why I don't like Linux for a reason not to derail it and offered a solution / reply to the problem of no xserves by showing a Mac Mini 1U rack solution which is some what on topic.

To add what was said about Raid Sonnet - Fusion D400QR5: 4-Drive Hardware RAID 5 SATA Storage Systems With Quad Interface

1U Raid solution via eSATA through Thunderbolt until a thunderbolt native version. The Mac Mini servers have 2 hard drives inside which is good enough for the system and a second 1U raid rack solves the storage solution. About the only feature lost is the lights out management that the xserve offered.