[bstone]

Arabs watched television footage of the Gaza fighting in despair. "May God curse you all," Egyptian columnist Ahmed Ragab wrote, referring to the Palestinian factions.

Source: Arabs despair over Palestinian violence - Yahoo! News

Of course, in some way this is the fault of the Jews. Right? RIGHT?

Of course not. Any thinking, rational person knows that.

When you breed generation upon generation of hatred you are left with one simple fact: when the people do not face an external enemy they will fabricate internal ones.

[Big Mac]

Interesting quote.

On a different note, how can anyone expect Israel to ever negotiate with the mainstream party of the so-called "Palestinians" when it continues to lob rockets into Israeli towns?

[wolfen]

Originally Posted by bstone 

Source: Arabs despair over Palestinian violence - Yahoo! News

Of course, in some way this is the fault of the Jews. Right? RIGHT?

Of course not. Any thinking, rational person knows that.

When you breed generation upon generation of hatred you are left with one simple fact: when the people do not face an external enemy they will fabricate internal ones.

That's why Israel has such a tumultuous political situation, as well. The two groups will continue circling the drain until one side makes an ernest effort for peace.

[bstone]

Originally Posted by wolfen 

That's why Israel has such a tumultuous political situation, as well. The two groups will continue circling the drain until one side makes an ernest effort for peace.

Two groups- Hamas and Fatah making ernest efforts for peace between each other. That is what you mean, of course. As any rational, logical person knows, Israel made ernest efforts with the Barak Administration.

[wolfen]

Originally Posted by bstone 

Two groups- Hamas and Fatah making ernest efforts for peace between each other. That is what you mean, of course. As any rational, logical person knows, Israel made ernest efforts with the Barak Administration.

If you look at the Israeli attempts to maintain a peace plan, you will find great internal inconsistency. As each new administration goes through its motions to produce "the new peace plan," it becomes increasingly obvious that they are unable to commit to the long term plans made before them. With each new iteration, Palestinian prospects of finding a real partnership seem dimmer.

Nobody's going to argue that the Palestinians are ideal partners for peace. But it's also clear that much of their distrust and desperation is a result of multiple contradictions coming out of Israel. It's a bad situation, but nobody's hands are clean.

[bstone]

Originally Posted by wolfen 

If you look at the Israeli attempts to maintain a peace plan, you will find great internal inconsistency. As each new administration goes through its motions to produce "the new peace plan," it becomes increasingly obvious that they are unable to commit to the long term plans made before them. With each new iteration, Palestinian prospects of finding a real partnership seem dimmer.

Nobody's going to argue that the Palestinians are ideal partners for peace. But it's also clear that much of their distrust and desperation is a result of multiple contradictions coming out of Israel. It's a bad situation, but nobody's hands are clean.

Barak offered the most comprehensive peace plan. The Palestinians threw it back in his face and did not even make a counter offer. Certainly future Israeli administrations will have difficulty in making similar offers for knowledge that they will be rejected. Different administrations. Different offers. Rejected every time.

But this thread is not about the Israeli peace efforts. It is about how the Palestinians murder each other when they are not murdering the Jews. This is what happens when you breed generations of hatred.

[Helmling]

One might counter that no Israeli peace plan has offered Palestine much chance of being anything remotely like a successful and prosperous state, i.e. with water rights, etc.

Unfortunately that doesn't change the fact that you're right about the perpetuation of hatred and violence.

[bstone]

Originally Posted by Helmling 

One might counter that no Israeli peace plan has offered Palestine much chance of being anything remotely like a successful and prosperous state, i.e. with water rights, etc.

Those people would be wrong.

Unfortunately that doesn't change the fact that you're right about the perpetuation of hatred and violence.

Now they're using Mickey Mousy to glorify violence. Sick sick sick.

[wolfen]

Originally Posted by bstone 

But this thread is not about the Israeli peace efforts. It is about how the Palestinians murder each other when they are not murdering the Jews. This is what happens when you breed generations of hatred.

And I'm simply adding TO this thread that oppression is yet another product of generations of hatred.

In both Israeli and Palestinian versions of "generations of hatred," the hatred has a source. It wasn't simply a product of culture or racism. It was a product of events that generated the animosity. It's your prerogative to focus on the Palestinian pathology, and it's mine to ensure that the Israeli hatred is not neglected in the equation. The Israeli peace plan went something like this:

"We know we took your land away from you, pushed you into horrifying living conditions, capture and kill your people on a regular basis, and generally treat you like crap. Tell you what: let's call it even. We'll give some of your land back and you'll stop trying to get it all back. OK?"

The joke is how short-sighted Israel's policies are. Projections show their population will eventually be dominated by arabs, anyway. So the whole wheeling and dealing over land is simply a grudge match. The arabs will overrun them eventually, anyway. Their only means of preserving their culture at that point will be apartheid. Let's see how that goes.

[Super Mario]

Originally Posted by wolfen 

And I'm simply adding TO this thread that oppression is yet another product of generations of hatred.

In both Israeli and Palestinian versions of "generations of hatred," the hatred has a source. It wasn't simply a product of culture or racism. It was a product of events that generated the animosity.

Wrong wrong wrong.

In almost every country where Islam came to dominate all rival Muslim groups have fought each other. Algeria, Morocco, Iraq, Lebanon, Yemen, Pakistan, Somalia, Afghanistan, Indonesia, etc etc etc

There can never be a consensus about what God/Allah wants and what God/Allah is because even religion says that understanding is beyond human reach. Because of this, rival groups fight each other over each other's interpretations of God/Allah's will which they tie to politics.

Fatah wants a secular state. al-Aqsa Martyr's Brigade wants a secular state. Hizbullah wants an Islamic state and make Christians pay high taxes and donations. Hamas wants to Islamicize all of Palestine and throw Jews in the sea as their Syrian and Iranian backers want. Fatah and Hamas are now fighting each other over different interpretations of what they believe the Holy Land should look like according to divine decree, history and traditional racist attitudes towards Jews. There's no real world vision of the future. Just freeze the brain and worship the ancestors.

[bstone]

Originally Posted by wolfen 

And I'm simply adding TO this thread that oppression is yet another product of generations of hatred.

In both Israeli and Palestinian versions of "generations of hatred," the hatred has a source. It wasn't simply a product of culture or racism. It was a product of events that generated the animosity. It's your prerogative to focus on the Palestinian pathology, and it's mine to ensure that the Israeli hatred is not neglected in the equation.

When I lived in Israel from 1999-2001 (during the Barak Administrator, Camp David II and beginning of the second Palestinian terrorist Intifada) there was a very popular song on the Israeli FM radio stations. It was called "Shalom l'ben dodi". Translated: "Peace to you, my cousin". It was a song to the Arabs. It played all the time. No such luck on the Palestinian radio stations.

The Israeli peace plan went something like this:

"We know we took your land away from you, pushed you into horrifying living conditions, capture and kill your people on a regular basis, and generally treat you like crap. Tell you what: let's call it even. We'll give some of your land back and you'll stop trying to get it all back. OK?"

Could not possible be further from the truth. But keep thinking that if you want. It will still remain incorrect.

The joke is how short-sighted Israel's policies are. Projections show their population will eventually be dominated by arabs, anyway. So the whole wheeling and dealing over land is simply a grudge match. The arabs will overrun them eventually, anyway. Their only means of preserving their culture at that point will be apartheid. Let's see how that goes.

You have a rather dim view of things. If the Arabs keep murdering each other then the demographic problem won't persist.

[wolfen]

Originally Posted by bstone 

If the Arabs keep murdering each other then the demographic problem won't persist.

Keep thinking that if you want...

[bstone]

Originally Posted by wolfen 

Keep thinking that if you want...

Interesting how you did not respond to any of my other points. I take it that you abdicate your point.

[wolfen]

Originally Posted by Super Mario 

Wrong wrong wrong.

In almost every country where Islam came to dominate all rival Muslim groups have fought each other. Algeria, Morocco, Iraq, Lebanon, Yemen, Pakistan, Somalia, Afghanistan, Indonesia, etc etc etc

There can never be a consensus about what God/Allah wants and what God/Allah is because even religion says that understanding is beyond human reach. Because of this, rival groups fight each other over each other's interpretations of God/Allah's will which they tie to politics.

Fatah wants a secular state. al-Aqsa Martyr's Brigade wants a secular state. Hizbullah wants an Islamic state and make Christians pay high taxes and donations. Hamas wants to Islamicize all of Palestine and throw Jews in the sea as their Syrian and Iranian backers want. Fatah and Hamas are now fighting each other over different interpretations of what they believe the Holy Land should look like according to divine decree, history and traditional racist attitudes towards Jews. There's no real world vision of the future. Just freeze the brain and worship the ancestors.

I'm not sure if you read my post or what's going on with this post of yours. I appreciate the summary, though.

[wolfen]

Originally Posted by bstone 

Interesting how you did not respond to any of my other points. I take it that you abdicate your point.

Your other points? You mean, that you heard a song on the radio?

I submit. You really did hear that song on the radio.

[bstone]

Originally Posted by wolfen 

Your other points? You mean, that you heard a song on the radio?

I submit. You really did hear that song on the radio.

Perhaps you should find another place to enter into debate. You don't seem capable of holding intellectual, rational, logical debate.

[wolfen]

Originally Posted by bstone 

Perhaps you should find another place to enter into debate. You don't seem capable of holding intellectual, rational, logical debate.

That exit strategy is as credible as any Israeli withdrawal from Palestine.

I'm not debating. I'm sharing. Your points are fine such as they are. They simply don't paint an accurate picture all on their own. I'm filling in gaps. That's not debate.

[bstone]

Originally Posted by wolfen 

That exit strategy is as credible as any Israeli withdrawal from Palestine.

I'm not debating. I'm sharing. Your points are fine such as they are. They simply don't paint an accurate picture all on their own. I'm filling in gaps. That's not debate.

Filling non-existent gaps with fiction. Nothing more.

[wolfen]

You need one more laughing icon and your logic would be impenetrable.

Sorry. You fall short.

[bstone]

Originally Posted by wolfen 

You need one more laughing icon and your logic would be impenetrable.

Sorry. You fall short.

Ad hominem.

Ad hominem - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[wolfen]

Too bad there's not a wiki article for "Icons do not constitute a logical argument." I guess you'll remain in the dark til someone thinks to put one in for you.

[bstone]

Originally Posted by wolfen 

You need one more laughing icon and your logic would be impenetrable.

Sorry. You fall short.

Originally Posted by wolfen 

Too bad there's not a wiki article for "Icons do not constitute a logical argument." I guess you'll remain in the dark til someone thinks to put one in for you.

There is. It's this one:

That what I would be doing if I actually paid attention to your nonsensical arguments.

I will stay on the side of logic. Thank you. Have a nice day. Come back later. Only on MacNN™.

[wolfen]

Originally Posted by bstone 

There is. It's this one:

That what I would be doing if I actually paid attention to your nonsensical arguments.

I will stay on the side of logic. Thank you. Have a nice day. Come back later. Only on MacNN™.

Well I spoke with Logic on the phone a few minutes ago. He said he don't know you.

[bstone]

Originally Posted by wolfen 

You need one more laughing icon and your logic would be impenetrable.

Sorry. You fall short.

Originally Posted by wolfen 

Well I spoke with Logic on the phone a few minutes ago. He said he don't know you.

You spoke to Logic the person. I am speaking of logic the concept. I fully embrace the latter.

[wolfen]

Dude I spoke with logic and his grandfather Common Sense. They both said you were kicked out for pissing on the carpet.

[bstone]

Despite the ad hominem attacks by wolfen, I will continue with the intellectual side of this debate.

I observe that it is quite interesting and a defining moment when you have well known members of the Arab world state quite openly that the Palestinians are their own worst enemy. Indeed, this should resonate with all intelligent and thinking people. Afterall, wen you breed a generation of hatred this is what you get. Further, when the larger Arab world has all but given up on you this typically sends a very clear message.

[wolfen]

Who are you trying to convince? Do you think anybody's going to seriously disagree with you? "Oh, yeah. Those Palestinians got it all together." Be serious.

Either that or you wanted this to be a Palestinian-bashing session? Sorry, I left my pajamas and smores at the last slumber party. We bashed Billy Thompson reallly good. And those Palestinians!? Oy! What a buncha ruffians.

I'm trying to engage you in a legitimately interesting discussion. Not a thread where you repeat your point of view ad nauseum.

Hint: It's less persuasive if you have to actually to tell everyone you're intellectual.