[dustrho]

I've been a computer user since 1995, and have always used Windows-based computers. I have gone through several desktop computers and a few laptops, and last November I purchased an HP 17" widescreen laptop (loaded to the max with everything). I'm very content with it, but the size of it is huge (10 pounds by itself and 15-20 in a bag) so I don't take it everywhere with me like I want to.

I have been thinking about handing over this HP laptop to my wife to use (since she wouldn't tote it around with her), and then having me possibly get a nice small portable laptop (12-14" display, less than 5 pounds).

Now here is where the story gets good. I work in downtown Chicago by Michigan & Wacker, and I always take a long walk during lunch with a fellow co-worker of mine. One day in December we were walking down Michigan Avenue, and I noticed there was an Apple store. I didn't even know they existed, so I told my friend (Rick) that I wanted to go in take a quick peek. Walking in there totally changed my mind about Apple products.

When I saw the iBooks I instantly fell in love with them. They are simply gorgeous machines, and I was just mesmorized by them. They're the perfect size I've been wanting in a laptop, so the 12" iBook G4 was looking really nice at the moment. But then I was thinking to myself, "How am I possibly going to make the switch from Windows to Apple?"

You see, since I've been using Windows-based hardware/software for so long, I have been skeptical & leary about making the switch. It sounds easy to do, but it's like I would be starting over from scratch as far as purchasing software for an iBook. So, that is one little roadblock I would have to face if I did make the decision.

What would I use my new laptop for? Here is a simple list of some items I would do with it...

• Surf the Net
• Check email
• Web Design (I currently use Microsoft FrontPage, so this would be a HUGE roadblock for me. Any ideas of what to use besides Dreamweaver & GoLive?)
• Digital photo storage & editing
• Office documents (Word, Excel, etc)
• No game-playing at all

So I come here to this forum looking for advice/help on making this decision. Are there any people here who have been longtime Windows users but are now Apple users? If there are, what are your takes and experiences about making the switch? Was it worth it? Do you regret it? Has it changed your life?


PS -- Sorry for the book I just wrote, but I'm really excited about the thought of going with an Apple iBook.

[polendo]

The PB 12" is really a nice laptop. I'm saving money for one. It has plenty of power and speed to handle what you do. The current Ibook can handle that one too.

I currently have an Ibook, but I'm selling it for some concern on its reliability.

The switch is relatively easy to do. Office documents can be handled without any problem at all. I do it all the time between my PC and my Ibook. Internet browser, Email, photo viewer software are already bundled on the Macs and work fine. I'm sure you can design webpages on the Mac, but I don't know any of that. Office for Mac do not have front page.

I do recommend for you to read on the boards about performance on laptops from Mac. Check the discussion boards on Apple.com . Also, the mac world is not hassle free. It has advantages but they also have issues.. so read and ask the most you can before making a decision.

regards

[dustrho]

Originally posted by polendo:
I currently have an Ibook, but I'm selling it for some concern on its reliability.

What exactly do you mean by that? Is there something wrong with the iBooks? I have been giving it some thought about getting a 12" Powerbook versus the iBook model, but I heard those get really hot after being on for only a little while.


I have been reading this board for a little while (as a guest), but decided it was finally time to post my thoughts about getting an Apple laptop.

Thanks for the quick reply.

[ebolla]

1. Safari (free with OSX)
2. Mail.app (free with OSX)
3. Check out Freeway http://www.softpress.com/en/freeway
4. iPhoto (free w/ OSX)
5. Microsoft Office for Mac (also comes w/ an Outlook client for OSX if you perfer)

[dustrho]

Originally posted by ebolla:
Check out Freeway http://www.softpress.com/en/freeway

That looks like a pretty good web design program. Anyone here use it on a regular basis, and if so what are your thoughts about it?

Thanks for the list of applications ebolla!

[jerry1]

I'm in the same situation as dustrho right now. I had almost taken the leap on Jan 7 (after MWSF2004) but decided to hold on a little more till Jan 24 (20th Mac Anniversary). Now, I'm facing the same problems of programming/coding on iBook. I may have to take up Web Designing/C++/Database stuff. These are some of the courses I may have to take:

* Software Development: Programming Fundamentals
* Web Design and Development
* Networking Security and Administration
* Wireless Networks
* Systems Analysis and Design
* Voice Systems and Services
* Organizational and Client Relationships
* Database Driven Websites
* Networking: Advanced Routing
* Database Design & Modeling
* Database Design and Modeling

I know that VPC can be used to emulate PC enviroment but is it dependable to be used for such stuff ? Again I'm in a tight situation trying to get most out of both the worlds. Hope you dont face such questions dustrho.

J

[Photo678]

I recently switched.

Went from a p4 2.5ghz desktop to a 12" g4 ibook. I love this thing. Performance is great with it, just max the ram. I bought it with the stock 256 and while it ran perfect, i just needed to use the lappie for larger files in Photoshop. NO PROBLEMS.

I kept my desktop as sort of file storage and the workhorse of the bunch. It helps with workflow greatly. Scanning and printing from the desktop, all work done on the laptop.

I have used windows based machines since 90, and never thought mac until the past few years. X really appealed to me, and Im glad I made the switch.

Office docs will open fine in appleworks (included). Photo editing, hmmm not sure to what degree you plan on editing, but iphoto might just be perfect for you (included). Iphoto is not sophisticated enough for what I do, so I use Photoshop. Iphoto is great for simple resiszing, printing, corrections and organizing.


Hope this helps, and good luck. My advice to you is to make the leap, youll be glad you did.


EDIT
One important thing I should add is how great and simple the mac world is. As an example in the pc world, lets say you plug in your digicam. I dont like bloating my pc with useless software, so I pplug in my digicam, XP reads the cam as a drive, i need to pull the pics to the desktop, then move the pics to where I keep them organized. On the mac, you plug in your digicam, iphoto pops up, export, done. Your folder is autmatically organized into the iphoto library, and thats it.

Got love the way the mac organizes things for you.

bottom line is it just works

[hostvisions]

Just go with Dreamweaver for HTML design (blows frontpage away) and everything else you need is in the box!

You might want to consider a 12" Powerbook though. Finish is a little more durable and less prone to scratching.

[RadarBob2]

Sometimes I bring my iBook into the office just to use BBEdit to edit HTML code. BBEdit overall beats any Windoze code editor I've ever seen. BBEdit is a no-doubt, hands down, unqualified, two thumbs up code cutting tool. The built in FTPing made transfering files easy. The "tag balancing" works. Can save files in with DOS, UNIX, or MAC line feed/carrage returns. Recognizes ASP tags, VBScript, C, C++, Java, JavaScript, et.al.


switching
http://www.apple.com/switch/

Move2Mac software
http://guide.apple.com/action.lasso?...=58875&-search

File Conversion Software
http://guide.apple.com/action.lasso?...y=1620&-search

BBEdit
www.barebones.com

[dustrho]

Originally posted by jerry1:
Again I'm in a tight situation trying to get most out of both the worlds. Hope you dont face such questions dustrho.

Well, I'm facing the dilemma of either buying a 12" iBook/Powerbook or a Windows-based notebook, but I'm not sure which one to get at this point in time. It would be a piece of cake to go the Windows-based route, but it would be somewhat difficult (I think) to head down the Apple path. I really want to give Apple I try, but the whole web/image design is what's really holding me back.

Some people might think FrontPage sucks and is a lame program, but that's what I use and I really like it. Sure, the first few versions of it were crap, but FrontPage 2002 is a great application that is easy to use. I've tried Dreamweaver and GoLive, and those are quite difficult programs to use. So, if that Freeway program works like FrontPage then I might make the jump to Apple. I have my own little side company where I have done some basic websites for some people/companies, and I'd like to expand it a bit if possible. But, I don't want to spend the money on a heavy duty desktop/laptop... I want a nice small 12" notebook so I can take my work with me everywhere I go. So that's why I'm faced with the difficult question... Apple or Windows?

[rubberduck77]

Originally posted by dustrho:
I really want to give Apple I try, but the whole web/image design is what's really holding me back.

So that's why I'm faced with the difficult question... Apple or Windows?

I think that the web/image design question should be the last point to hold you back from switching to apple. It's one of their strong areas, especially image design (photoshop...), and concerning web design, I got used to GoLive pretty fast. It might be an impressive package, but even if you use just the basic features, it's a very nice program and you will appreciate some of the more advanced features later. (Haven't used Dreamweaver lately, so please don't flame me for proposing GoLive, you Dreamweaver users out there )
And as has been proposed somewhere above, there sure are a bunch of free programs which offer comparale functions to Frontpage, even if they do not look the same.
And of course there is BBedit as well, has some great funtions for writing code directly.

IMHO, web design and working on images is definitely not the area to be afraid of on an Apple, if there is any at all. And as others pointed out above before, once you switch you will value the ease of use of Apple and its elegance and simplicity, the way everything just works - without having to install software for this and that, installing drivers, patches. And that's what you want to do, just work, without caring about how things inside your OS and computer work.

I'd say, just go for it! There's nothing to lose, a lot of great user experience to win and a whole community of people to help you in case you need its support.

[dustrho]

Originally posted by rubberduck77:
I'd say, just go for it! There's nothing to lose, a lot of great user experience to win and a whole community of people to help you in case you need its support.

I really like the encouragement you just gave me.

I'm still going to think about it further. I can't buy another notebook for another week or two, because I need to sell a few things on eBay first to bring some cash for this new notebook.

I know Apple is great for graphic design and all, but I haven't heard much in the aspect of web design. So, hearing stories from people who do use Apple for web design is great.

[typoon]

I just got a 12" powerbook less than a month ago. I was looking at the iBook which is more than a capable machine.

Many companies like Adobe will do a Crossgrade when you go from PC to Mac. You can order the Mac version without paying for a full version of it again. Not sure about MS though.

If you don't use any of the Fancy things in Office I would reccomend either AppleWorks or Mariner Write. Both are great Apps. For web design if you are one of those people who does straight coding BBEdit is the best. It is also good for what someone else here posted. I use GoLive. For photos you can use iPhoto then use Photoshop Elements to do what you need to with them. It's not as expensive as Photoshop but does much the same thing for photo manipulation.

For surfing the web you have the choice between IE for Mac or Safari. For mail you can use Apple's Mail.app. If you have office you can use Entourage.

[wowok1234]

Originally posted by dustrho:
What exactly do you mean by that? Is there something wrong with the iBooks? I have been giving it some thought about getting a 12" Powerbook versus the iBook model, but I heard those get really hot after being on for only a little while.


I have been reading this board for a little while (as a guest), but decided it was finally time to post my thoughts about getting an Apple laptop.

Thanks for the quick reply.

The issue in question is that some G3 ibooks have had repeated logic board/video failures, and even after Apple replaced the logic board. Check the Apple Discussion Boards, this forum, and MacFixit forums. However, I haven't heard of any issues with the iBook G4 yet...i read somewhere that apple changed the logic board design to deal with this.
I brought an iBook G4 800 from the Michigan Ave Apple store on the release of Panther, and I am very happy with the iBook and OS X. I haven't had any issues with it yet, and I don't forsee any in the future either. The case is strudy, but nontheless I got an Incase sleeve for it.

If you are hesitant about getting a 12" PB the heat issue has been dealt with with the 1 Ghz models. For what it's worth, the 12" PB offers native monitor spanning and line-in, whereas the iBook can do neither, save for an Applescript hack to enable monitor spanning.

[dustrho]

Originally posted by wowok1234:
The case is strudy, but nontheless I got an Incase sleeve for it.

What's an "Incase sleeve?"

Originally posted by wowok1234:
If you are hesitant about getting a 12" PB the heat issue has been dealt with with the 1 Ghz models.

So are you saying there isn't a heat problem on the Powerbook G4's? Do the 12" iBook G4's get really hot? I ask that because I plan on using the notebook on my lap most of the time, while doing whatever sitting in my recliner at home.

[Sophus]

Originally posted by dustrho:
Do the 12" iBook G4's get really hot? I ask that because I plan on using the notebook on my lap most of the time, while doing whatever sitting in my recliner at home.

No, not at all. Beautiful machine! I love it.

[rubberduck77]

Originally posted by dustrho:
So are you saying there isn't a heat problem on the Powerbook G4's? Do the 12" iBook G4's get really hot? I ask that because I plan on using the notebook on my lap most of the time, while doing whatever sitting in my recliner at home.

My friend's iBook 700 does net get hot, and neither does my 366 mhz blue clamshell iBook (old, but still doing his job under OS X).
And one thing that amazes most windows users is the total silence while you work on your iBook. Only once in a while the disk is accessed, otherwise you just type in silence. It amazes me all the time! Sometimes I even feel sorry for fan-noise plagued PC laptop users

iBooks do have fans (at least the white ones, the old ones didn't), but normally they are rarely used, only when you run at full capacity and do some intensive tasks continuously to heat up your iBook they come up more often.

[york28]

Originally posted by dustrho:
That looks like a pretty good web design program. Anyone here use it on a regular basis, and if so what are your thoughts about it?

Freeway is cool. I haven't used it recently, but a few years ago before I learned html and css it was all I used. I remember is being way ahead of Dreamweaver and GoLive at the time in terms of usability, as well as price.

I'd say check out the demo when you get your Mac. Either way, if you don't like it, there are plenty of other options. And if you're using FrontPage right now, anything will be an improvement. The code that program creates is just awful.

[SupahCoolX]

Originally posted by dustrho:
What's an "Incase sleeve?"

www.goincase.com (a maker of various cases/bags/sleeves for carrying and protecting laptops, iPods, etc.)

[SOLIDAge]

freeway is a great program, if you are looking for more people's input on it try posting about it/searching for it in MacNN's Web Dev section
http://forums.macnn.com/forumdisplay.php?forumid=88

or the OSX Software forums
http://forums.macnn.com/forumdisplay...d=82&Submit=Go

anyway...worse comes to worse, you COULD run VPC and run Frontpage...it would be slow...but it is possible to do.

good luck.
oh, and i was a switcher 4 years ago....never looked back.

[JCT]

dustrho,

Well, I'm a new "almost" switcher, heavily PC forever, tried out an iBook, fell in love with Mac OS X and just bought myself a 12" PB late last month.

Mine runs great ....as a matter of fact I'm posting this from the couch with my beagle dog sleeping under my elbow and my PB on my lap. A "trick" I learned awhile ago is to invest in one of the targus "podium pads". I use them with my Win notebook as well. They're light and they keep the laptop away from cloth (like on your lap) ....no heat problems whatsoever and I think it is better for the laptop to have airflow. Although I almost wish ot got a little warm..... it's about 10 degrees outside.

I think a laptop is a great way to test the Mac waters. I've been very pleasantly surprised by how easy it is to share files, etc.

Just be forewarned .... kind of like potato chips, I'm seriously thinking about a dual G5 for next fall

Good luck with your decision.

JT


So are you saying there isn't a heat problem on the Powerbook G4's? Do the 12" iBook G4's get really hot? I ask that because I plan on using the notebook on my lap most of the time, while doing whatever sitting in my recliner at home. [/B][/QUOTE]

[wataru]

Frontpage! I hate it with a passion. It has terrible Japanese support--all non-English characters are stored in the code as gibberish. The author of a site I maintain wrote it in Frontpage, so now I have to wade through pages and pages of crap just to fix a simple typo! </rant>

Back to the topic: I use an iBook for everything I do (which includes some light Photoshop work) and it handles it beautifully. I don't think you'd regret it if you got an iBook G4.

No matter what you decide, good luck.

[dustrho]

OK, I have more questions about the iBook...

• After time does the white case & keyboard discolor to not be white anymore?
• Does the hinge that opens the lid keep a nice tight fit, or does it loosen after time?
• Are the keyboards as bad as people make them out to be (i.e. not level, wavy, etc)?
• What exactly is the problem with the logic boards in the 12" iBooks?
• If I could choose between the 12" iBook or Powerbook, which of the two are better laptops? I'm not really talking about performance, but more in the line of sturdiness of the case, which heat up more, hardware issues, etc.

[Nausicaa]

dustrho,

I am also a long time Windows user. Just about a month ago I made the switch to OSX on the iBook. I had heard a lot about logic board failures, dead pixels in the screen, and other build quirks for days after I bought the machine. I was really quite nervous about the whole thing while waiting for delivery.

I can honestly say it was all in vain. I am SO happy with this machine. I had fallen in love with OSX months before, but I didn't realize just how great it is! Everything is integrated perfectly, and it's just plain fun to use! I am one of the few people who prefers the look of the iBook to the PB, and I will say that the build quality is not perfect, but it's damn close. Much sturdier than many Windows based machines I have used. Don't worry about the keyboard, most of them are fine. I notice nothing wrong with mine.

About the heat; yes, it gets a little hot, but not bad. You can use it in your lap just fine. As others have noted, this machine is very quiet, which is nice.

About the choice between the PB and iBook; I would tell you to max out an iBook (640 RAM, 60 GB HD) and buy that instead of a Powerbook. It'll suit your needs perfectly. I still keep my PC around for misc. use; games and stuff, but the iBook gets most of my use.

I know what it feels like to be in your position man. I was worried about the switch too. Just go for it, you won't be disappointed!

Sorry if this is poorly written, I'm in a bit of a hurry. Good luck!

[dustrho]

Thanks for the remarks Nausicaa. Like I said in a previous post of mine, I still have a week or two before I can even think about buying a new laptop, but I'm giving it serious consideration about switching to Apple (at least for my laptop anyway). That is why I'm here, isn't it?

Just coming to this forum and talking about the possibility of me getting an Apple iBook is exciting (seriously!).

Another couple of questions just popped into my head...

• How come the 12" iBook can only be upgraded to a maximum of 648mb RAM and 60gb hard drive? Are those the true limitations, and if so is that amount of memory truly enough to do regular tasks, web/graphic design?
• How much height is there when you set the iBook on a flat surface? I'm curious to know if there is enough space for good air flow. I saw a thread where everyone was showing off their Powerbooks, and the majority of people had them propped up on cooling stands.
• How big & heavy is the AC Adapter? Is it similar to the multi-colored iMac laptops (circular device)?

Thanks!

[Sophus]

Originally posted by dustrho:
Another couple of questions just popped into my head...

• How come the 12" iBook can only be upgraded to a maximum of 648mb RAM and 60gb hard drive? Are those the true limitations, and if so is that amount of memory truly enough to do regular tasks, web/graphic design?
• How much height is there when you set the iBook on a flat surface? I'm curious to know if there is enough space for good air flow. I saw a thread where everyone was showing off their Powerbooks, and the majority of people had them propped up on cooling stands.
• How big & heavy is the AC Adapter? Is it similar to the multi-colored iMac laptops (circular device)?

Thanks!

The iBook can be maxed out with an 1 gb ram stick in addition to the 128mb soldered to the logic board. The 1GB stick can be had from http://www.transintl.com/macupgrades...cfm?number=100

I have worked with unix and windows based machines for about 15 years as a sys admin. I jumped on the mac wave when OSX was released. Have never ever looked back. I pity the poor folks who have to work on a PC. Go for it. You will not regret it.

As to your questions:
I have 640mb myself, and it seems to be more than adequate for most tasks (all tasks I have encountered. It always run all apps smooth and fast. I believe the money for a 1GB stick is better spent on other stuff or software.

The drive can be upgraded to whatever size you like, but Apple BTO offers no bigger drive option than 60GB for the iBook. No hardware limitations, only commercial market segment separation.

The "screen hack" allowing for screen spanning etc is not really a hack, it enables built in features that have been disabled by Apple for the same reason they only offer 60GB hardrives.

As to your heat worries, the iBook does not get hot, only comfortably warm if you run it with a heavy load over time i. e. run a 3D game for some time it gets warmer, but not hot. I have no idea why people seems to be so obsessed about this. I believe it all stems from the first Powerbook 12" G4 that supposedly got really hot. This is no issue with the iBooks and from what I have heard, the new Powerbooks don't have this problem either.

Keyboard is excellent on my iBook, although I noticed that my sister in law got a 12" G4 with a slightly wavey keyboard. This is no problem though, barely noticeable. Remember, Mac people are mostly spoilt estetique fanatics. Tolerance for less than absolutely 100% satisfaction in every asspect is probably less among these users than than what you will find with the average PC user.

[jerry1]

Originally posted by dustrho:

Another couple of questions just popped into my head...

• How much height is there when you set the iBook on a flat surface? I'm curious to know if there is enough space for good air flow. I saw a thread where everyone was showing off their Powerbooks, and the majority of people had them propped up on cooling stands.
• After time does the white case & keyboard discolor to not be white anymore?
  Does the hinge that opens the lid keep a nice tight fit, or does it loosen after time?

Thanks!

I've read up quite a bit from Mac users who recommend placing the iBook/PBooks on the stand as the warm heat tends to gather up around the battery compartment and in the long run the battery life might detereorate significantly. Not sure about the other queries though.

J

[wowok1234]

If you're worried about discoloration or getting the palmrests/case dirty I recommend laminating the iBook's palmrest and outer case with frisket film, which you can find at any art supply store. I know there is a Utrecht's on Michigan Ave, a bit further south from the Art Institute. They're easy to apply, and if it gets dirty, you can always remove it. It leaves no residue behind, which is a major plus.

The AC adapter is a small white brick with retractable hooks for cable management. Cool thing about it is that the iBook's AC adapter allows you to remove the AC cord from the adapter, letting you attach a longer cable if need be. The iBook actually comes with the longer cable for convenience.

[SOLIDAge]

Originally posted by dustrho:

Another couple of questions just popped into my head...

• How come the 12" iBook can only be upgraded to a maximum of 648mb RAM and 60gb hard drive? Are those the true limitations, and if so is that amount of memory truly enough to do regular tasks, web/graphic design?
• How much height is there when you set the iBook on a flat surface? I'm curious to know if there is enough space for good air flow. I saw a thread where everyone was showing off their Powerbooks, and the majority of people had them propped up on cooling stands.
• How big & heavy is the AC Adapter? Is it similar to the multi-colored iMac laptops (circular device)?

Thanks!

to answer afew issues...
expanding iBooksthe reason that the iBook is only able to go to 648 in RAM because of the fact that it is considered a consumer machine, and thus something like 1 gig of ram or a 90 gig Hard Drive aren't needed...but you can certainly install a 90gig HD if you wanted ;-)

Case colouralso, the colour of the iBook case stays white...my mom's had her iBook for 3 years and it is still crystal white, the keyboard recently started to turn a little dis-coloured, but nothing gross and unusable...you can also replace the keyboard if you want to.

Logic BoardLogic board issue was only w/ first generation iBooks i believe, so...don't worry about it.

PowerbrickPowerbrick is alittle smaller then the old iBook round adapters...they are not very heavy, and the ability to exchange fronts on it is very nice when on the go/limited space.

Airthe air circulation on the bottom is fine, like others have said, it gets alittle hot around the battery area, but that heat does not displace itself up to the keypad or the palm rest.

PB vs iBook in durabilityI own a 12" Al book and i really love it, it is a great machine, but honestly? i baby it. My mother doesn't baby her iBook at all lol and that machine is a TANK, it has afew scratches on the top that you have to inspect to find, but in terms of durability? that plastic is prettttty thick.

[dcolton]

I've been debating whether to voice my opinion, realizing that I will get flamed by the zealots. Nonetheless, I think you should here th bad opinions as well. You see, I did the same thing you are doing 7 months ago. All I was ever told was that Apple was the greatest thing since sliced bread.

I own a powerbook, Sony vaio, and a paperweight (iBook). I really like Jag and the Powerbook...and I am slowly accepting Apple, but there are many days when I am strolling in the computer store, dissapointed that I didn't get a PC. (I don't care what argument anyone makes about macs and software...it just is NOT there).

As for the iBook...BAH BAH BAH. In 7 months i had 6 logic board failures on 2 different iBooks. I only recommend a crappy product like that to my worst of enemies! This is not to mention that it (iBook) was slow, sluggish and unreliable when it did work. I cant tell you how many times it made Flash MX crash. Or how many times I had to reinstall OSX. So, I was told to upgrade to OSX 10.2.6, which I did (you know, those patches and updates that you NEVER need with an Apple computer. Well..after my update, there was this incredibily irritating clicking noise and MX still crashed.

Couple that with the super zealots who praise STeve JObs and worship their Granny Smith apples in honor of Apple computer. Most of the time, you can't even ask a simple question without being flamed. I remember one time, I was on another discussion board and I simply asked what type of maintenance is necessary for apple computers. 25% of the people lied and said just plug and play forever, 25% flamed me for even bringing up the fact that their might be maintenance issues with Apple computers and the rest proceeded to tell me about repairing permissions, mac janitor, resetting the PMU, etc...(You know...all of those things that someone posted that you never have to do with a mac!)

Apple has some good qualities, but I just can't see why you wouldn't get a pc. It is cheaper, their are TONS of software (not just games, but everday and unique applications that you CANNOT find on a Mac), and the PC community is much more pleasant to deal with. Just read through these forums...see the irrationality of Apple users who make some of the wildest claims in the world in hopes that Apple will someday reach that golden market share of more than 8% (I think it is about 2-3% right now).

As for your some of your questions:

1. Yes the iBook gets warm, but not terribly hot. But I will say that there are many times, I had to adjust the room temperature in order to remain comfy with the iBook on my lap.

2. The white case will discolor. ITS WHITE FOR CHRIST SAKE! No disrepect to you, just to the ones who claim it won't stain or get dirty.

3. The hinge keeps a tigh fit as far as I know, but I have noticced that it is getting a little harder to open

4. iBooks have a flawed logic board - despite how I get flamed, it is not even a debateable question. Just search the web - there are more than just a few upset iBook owners
5. If you still are going to get an Apple....GET A POWERBOOK! I can only say good things about it and am quite happy with...Especially with the new OS

OH and even though spanning on the iBook may not really be a hack...if you run it, you will void your warranty - Applecare or not.

[dustrho]

Thanks dcolton for your opinion about Apple technology. I do appreciate your honest opinion about your experience with Apple products, because nothing in this world is perfect. I've been a Windows user for a VERY LONG TIME, and I know Microsoft isn't the best thing out there.

I'm sorry you have had nothing but bad luck with your iBook. That is one reason why I'm so hesitant about buying one. I've been reading just about every thread from the last few months here, and it seems there are problems with the iBooks & Powerbooks. So, I'm really stuck now as to what I want to do. I know I definitely want another laptop that is small and ultraportable (less than 4-5 pounds), so I can take it everywhere with me.

Again, thanks dcolton for your input.

[dcolton]

Originally posted by dustrho:
Thanks dcolton for your opinion about Apple technology. I do appreciate your honest opinion about your experience with Apple products, because nothing in this world is perfect. I've been a Windows user for a VERY LONG TIME, and I know Microsoft isn't the best thing out there.

I'm sorry you have had nothing but bad luck with your iBook. That is one reason why I'm so hesitant about buying one. I've been reading just about every thread from the last few months here, and it seems there are problems with the iBooks & Powerbooks. So, I'm really stuck now as to what I want to do. I know I definitely want another laptop that is small and ultraportable (less than 4-5 pounds), so I can take it everywhere with me.

Again, thanks dcolton for your input.

Have you seen the new mini sony? I have heard a lot of good things about it and I dig it's appearance. Other than that...let me say that Jaguar is amazing. I think it is better than XP, but both OS's have their benefits. IMO...stay away from the iBook...go for the Powerbook if you go with Apple. Mine is a refurbished model about 1 month old and I love it...

Oh, and people might ask why did I get a Powerbook if I hate the iBook so much:

It is simple, once you invest in upgrades, software and etcetera, it is VERY expensive to switch back. Right now, I am an Apple user by necessity, but if this powerbook continues to run like it does (excellent)...I just may turn into one of the zealots I criticise!

[dustrho]

Originally posted by dcolton:
Have you seen the new mini sony? I have heard a lot of good things about it and I dig it's appearance.

Are you referring to the one that has a 10" display, is white, and has weird-looking font for the letters & numbers on the keyboard?



If this is the one you're talking about it's too much money. It's about $2100 or something like that. Way too much for me to spend, especially since I just bought a 17" widescreen HP laptop for that price.

And what is your true beef about the iBooks compared to the Powerbooks?

[Tarcat]

I say go for it. The iBook is a great machine. Perfect size. Enough speed. Good price. Elegant operating system. Don't worry too much about reliability. Of course places like this are full of people complaining. Many only come here if they have a computer problem that needs fixing.

[historylme]

I love my ibook, I have carried it with me since the first day I got it, a year ago. I spent 6 months traveling in Europe, mostly in France. The CD-rom gave way, I think because I dropped it, but everything else has yet to fail me.

I have my whole life in it, pictures, music, videos, all my emails ever recived and other things personal to me.

I now mostly run it for about 10 hours a day, every day, and it kicks ass. As for the battery, it's to be expected that they don't keep their original charge, but I still get two hours on it. Compare to my x-girlfriends vio, which begand to loose it's charge withing three months of purchase.

Go to the store, get it, put it on your credit card, you have 28 days to test it out. If you don't like it, you are out on the re-stocking fee, but you will have a "true" user experience and will not contemplate the "what if" factor of not going with the Ibook or power book. You will be at easy residing in a windows only world.

Good luck, hope you don't get a dud in either world, for PC do send lemons, just as much as apple.

[dcolton]

Originally posted by dustrho:
Are you referring to the one that has a 10" display, is white, and has weird-looking font for the letters & numbers on the keyboard?



If this is the one you're talking about it's too much money. It's about $2100 or something like that. Way too much for me to spend, especially since I just bought a 17" widescreen HP laptop for that price.

And what is your true beef about the iBooks compared to the Powerbooks?

1st...after you reinvest in mac applicable software and hardware, you WILL be spending $2100. If you think virtual PC is going to solve all of your problems...think again. VPC is the worst solution ever created.

My real beef with the iBook. It is super overated computer that serves no better than a paper weight. It looks like a BMW but drives like a BigWheel. They can be a lot of fun until the plastic tire breaks or you just want to grow up. Apple apologists will tell you that there is no logic board problem...but there is.

SImply put...the POwerbook makes me happy and it is dependable...the iBook makes me sick to the stomach everytime I see it.

[jerry1]

dcolton, you sould like a poster who was here in the iBook forums sometime back.

Anyways, I dont know that VPC is the worst solution ever created but I know one thing for sure; iBooks last longer than P'Books and cost much less and do 90% of the jobs done.

[TubaMuffins]

Originally posted by dustrho:
OK, I have more questions about the iBook...

• After time does the white case & keyboard discolor to not be white anymore?
• Does the hinge that opens the lid keep a nice tight fit, or does it loosen after time?
• Are the keyboards as bad as people make them out to be (i.e. not level, wavy, etc)?
• What exactly is the problem with the logic boards in the 12" iBooks?
• If I could choose between the 12" iBook or Powerbook, which of the two are better laptops? I'm not really talking about performance, but more in the line of sturdiness of the case, which heat up more, hardware issues, etc.

my i book is over two years old, the only physical thing wrong with it is some scratches it got when i dropped it (they are tough pieces of plastic), the hinge works just like new too. as for the keyboard, never heard of complaints, mine isnt wavy or unlevel. the logic boards were manufactured crappily and they tend to crap out after a while (get the extended warranty) i think they fixed it with the g4 ibooks though. my ibook was out of comission for a month because of that (right before finals week too). My friend has a powerbook, it is beautiful but i would never put it on my lap cause the thing heats up a lot. like i said, i have dropped my ibook from desk level onto hardwood floor, nothing wrong with it (except scratches of course). the ibooks are pretty much built to be beaten up. I knew a guy who said that the shell for the ibooks is a bullet proof material, dont know if it's true but its still fun to keep in the back of your mind. the only thing i dont like about my ibook is the usb inputs are on the left, my mouse has a short cord so its kind of a hassle. good luck.

[Rev-O]

Nausicaa

fantastic movie... wish a good translation was available in english!

[lurkalot]

Originally posted by Rev-O:
fantastic movie... wish a good translation was available in english!

Agreed!
Going a bit off topic but a DVD version with at least English subtitles was released recently.
nausicaa.net

[RadarBob2]

unique applications that you CANNOT find on a Mac

I've always loved this illogical arguement.... and it's corollary, "there are MORE applications for PC"

Unique
Please name them. Please show me why I need these unique programs.

If one has a requirement / task that demands a specific, unique piece of software then one will get the computer that runs it. Just because there are some "unique" applications (somewhere out there that *someone* must be using) that run on PC but not on Mac is no reason not to get a Macintosh. You know, there are some unique applications that run on a Cray supercomputer, but I bought a Macintosh anyway.

And just because a particular software title does not have a Mac version does not mean there are not Mac applications that do the same thing; and perhaps better.

More
More crap is just a bigger pile of scheiss. More does not necessarily mean better. More means more choice, not necessarily better choices. And more shear volume of software titles does not mean it beats the pants off the Macintosh.

The Gestalt
"Gestalt" can loosely be defined as "the big picture." The Gestalt of the Way of Macintosh is that the Macintosh interfaces, OSes and environment is different from PC. IMHO it is this gestalt that makes Macintosh the superior computer.

Anyone can find individual anecdotal stories of how My PC died, or my Mac died, or how their PC or Mac keeps going, and going, and going... et cetera, et cetera, and et cetera.

BUT in the larger scheme of things, over a lifetime of computer use; and considering my blood pressure, and that I can't afford to have any more of my hair fall out, the Macintosh is generally easer to use, easier to learn, and always easier to modify than PCs. The Mac universe of software is generally easier to install, typically easier to upgrade, and easier to uninstall. Relative to PCs, Macintosh is bliss.

There is nothing a PC can do that a macintosh cannot do - or vice versa; but my 17 years of Macintosh & PC experience has *consistantly* taught me one thing: "get a Mac."

[mdc]

Originally posted by dustrho:
I know Apple is great for graphic design and all, but I haven't heard much in the aspect of web design. So, hearing stories from people who do use Apple for web design is great.

i do webdesign. click on my signature at the bottom of this post and that will take you to the current version of my site. it is just a personal site, which i mess around with. all done on my mac.

last year i made the switch. used to be a long time windows user, work with windows, certified with windows, support them for a job, etc, etc, but will use my mac for everything that i can.

i do all my html code with textedit on my mac. it is like windows notepad. i have used go live and dreamweaver. they are both very good pieces of software. do not fret about losing frontpage, try out the trial version of dreamweaver or go live. they might take a short while to get used to, but as soon as you realize how they work, everything will get better from there. your webdesign included.

So are you saying there isn't a heat problem on the Powerbook G4's? Do the 12" iBook G4's get really hot? I ask that because I plan on using the notebook on my lap most of the time, while doing whatever sitting in my recliner at home.

the revision A 12" powerbooks, the ones that run at 867mhz, tended to get hot. my friend has one and i have used it while it was charging and when it was not charging, and it did not get super hot. yeah it got warm, but that is to be expected.

my g3 800 ibook got warm when it was charging.

my rev b 12" powerbook (the ones that run at 1ghz) get a little warm when charging. the powerbooks have had a lot of work on the airflow and heat issue, so if you do get a powerbook rev b, don't worry about the heat. and like i said earlier, in my experience with the rev a powerbook, it was not super hot. most definately usable. my friend uses his everyday and he does not complain about it.

get a *book, you will love it.

[sniffer]

Originally posted by RadarBob2:
snip

Well said ^^.

Regarding the software situation there really is something unique about the Mac to day that you don't find anywhere else.
1. Native OS X apps. Apple have really worked hard to get developers over, and they have really succeeded. The growth in native apps is amazing just considering the few years OS X have been on the marked. The developer tools that ships with every OS X bundle for free is really powerful and professional, and there is nothing that implies that this trend of a growing developer base will change.
2. BSD core. With relative little effort you can port almost any GNU apps over from the *nix side. A lot of apps like i.e. x-chat and mplayer plus many more already runs natively under OS X, and there are packages systems like Fink that makes you install all kinds of ported *nix software with little efforts. In OS X you will never have to dual boot like you must with Win+linux as many people use. And what more ? You can run commercial apps like Office and X11 programs side by side. That's simply unique!
3. Classic. Not a selling point for new Mac buyers, but it's nice to know that you have access to and can run old Mac applications from the mid 90ies if you have to.
4. Bundled iApps with all new Macs. The package of software you get for free with every Mac is really some of the best out there in its category NO DOUBT.

Bottom line is, software is not the foremost reason to not consider a Mac. Unless there is some very specific exceptions.

[SirRuka]

Originally posted by jerry1:
I'm in the same situation as dustrho right now. I had almost taken the leap on Jan 7 (after MWSF2004) but decided to hold on a little more till Jan 24 (20th Mac Anniversary). Now, I'm facing the same problems of programming/coding on iBook. I may have to take up Web Designing/C++/Database stuff. These are some of the courses I may have to take:

* Software Development: Programming Fundamentals
* Web Design and Development
* Networking Security and Administration
* Wireless Networks
* Systems Analysis and Design
* Voice Systems and Services
* Organizational and Client Relationships
* Database Driven Websites
* Networking: Advanced Routing
* Database Design & Modeling
* Database Design and Modeling

J

You won't have any problems doing the programming, web development, or database stuff with a new Mac running Panther. You can take care of each of those with the following respectively: Xcode or gcc, your favorite text editor or Dreamweaver, and CocoaMySQL. Of those, Dreamweaver is the only one you would have to buy, everything else is free. I don't know what your networking courses would involve, most likely the actual net hardware which is controlled either through telnet, a webform, or some custom software. Just hope you don't get a programming prof that says you absolutely must do everything in a windows environment.

I primarily use my iBook for my day to day business stuff, but I have a windows machine for things like Access projects and the like. I run my iBook through a kvm so I have a full size keyboard, mouse, and monitor. As a plus there is no fan noise so my office is pretty quiet when the other machines aren't on.

[RadarBob2]

I just want to ditto the comments about developing on Mac. I've taken several programming classes (C, C++, data structures using C++), which used PCs in the classroom. Nonetheless I wrote all my programs on my Macintosh and ported them over to the PC.

Actually for the data structures, the instructor *insisted* that the programs be able to run on the school's Unix machines in order to get credit. She hated windows; and even her "powerpoint" presentations were on a Unix-based machine. Too bad I didn't have OS X at the time. But again, the language differences were easily overcome. None of the programs used GUI interfaces which made all the difference.

If you program in Java, then life is even better. Using the Java Swing API, the GUI interface is portable from Mac <--> PC.

BTW the professional's choice for development environment on Mac is Metrowerk's CodeWarrior, well, for C/C++ anyway. There is an educational version with a very significant $$$ discount. It is a 100% fully functional version - just the licensing is different - you're not allowed to sell software made w/ the ed. version. AND there is a windoze version of CodeWarrior AND you get BOTH Mac and PC verions together for that low educational price.

[dcolton]

Dustroh,

So what did you finally decide? Are you going with a paperwright (iBook), Powerbook, or a pc.

[dustrho]

Originally posted by dcolton:
Dustroh,

So what did you finally decide? Are you going with a paperwright (iBook), Powerbook, or a pc.

I haven't officially made a decision yet. I'm still giving it strong consideration in either an iBook or Powerbook, but I cannot buy anything until I sell a bunch of stuff on eBay. It's not that I don't have the money for either of the two, but it's mainly because I just bought an HP 17" widescreen laptop about two months ago. So, once I get rid of a bunch of stuff then I can get another laptop, just A LOT smaller (12" in size). Whether that be an iBook or a Powerbook, I'm really not sure.

[Starry Night]

Originally posted by dustrho:
That looks like a pretty good web design program. Anyone here use it on a regular basis, and if so what are your thoughts about it?

Thanks for the list of applications ebolla!

I've been researching mac wysiwyg editors for the past several weeks. Freeway Pro ($219 at amazon) and Freeway Express ($99) are really cool and very very easy to use once you get used to it's desk top publishing way of doing things. Actually, amazon and most resellers are selling Freeway 3.5, but you can upgrade to Freeway Pro at www.softpress.com for free. You also get a free FAST Pack.

The folks at Softpress offer very very good, and free, support, which is refreshing.

I'm currently using the free trial but plan to buy Freeway Pro very soon. You can sign up for Freeway Talk, a Freeway email discussion list, at softpress.com. It's a very lively and active community of people who really love Freeway.

Btw, the word on the street is that Dreamweaver for Mac has lots of performance issues. And Freeway costs much less.

As for the ibooks, the G3's have had terrible logic board problems. Supposedly, the G4 ibook uses the same logic board as the powerbook, so you should be ok as I've not heard reports of PB logic board problems..... The 12" PB once had heat troubles, but I believe Rev B is better. Imho, the 12" G4 ibook looks really good and at a great price.

Also, some Mac discussion boards can be a bit silly, over the top mac zealots that defy reason, etc. However, I've found Macnn to be fairly level headed community, very friendly as well!

[dustrho]

Originally posted by Starry Night:
I've found Macnn to be fairly level headed community, very friendly as well!

That's one thing that really impresses me, is how great the people are here. I had thought I was going to get flamed for just saying how I was thinking about making the switch, but look at how this thread turned out. I have gotten great responses from everyone who's posted here, the topic has primarily stayed on topic, and everyone seems to be friendly. Also, I like the fact that if I do get an iBook (or even a PowerBook), I know where I can go if I ever need help with something. This is a great learning community.

And, I will definitely keep everyone posted as to whether or not I end up buying an Apple laptop.

[dustrho]

UPDATE...

I still have not purchased a new ultraportable laptop, but that could be changing within the next couple of weeks. We just filed for our taxes and we're expecting to get A LOT more money then we had anticipated. Therefore, I should be buying a new laptop fairly soon, but I'm still not sure whether to get an Apple iBook or some PC laptop. I'm totally stumped. I was, at one point in time, all ready to make the jump to Apple. But then recently I've been thinking about going with an IBM ThinkPad. So, I'm totally stumped & confused as to what to get now.