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Are you a flexitarian? Can vegans eat honey? ...
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Grizzled Veteran
Join Date: Feb 2005
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Why vegans can't decide whether they're allowed to eat honey. - By Daniel Engber - Slate Magazine
"There's never been a better time to be a half-assed vegetarian. Five years ago, the American Dialect Society honored the word flexitarian for its utility in describing a growing demographic—the "vegetarian who occasionally eats meat.""
http://www.slate.com/id/2196205/
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Senior User
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Flexitarian = sub-human scum with no personal standards, merrily floating along on the inanity of popular cultural fashion.
And no, vegans can't eat honey.
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If you don't want to be eaten, stop acting like food
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Banned
Join Date: Jun 2003
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Are vegans allowed to eat anything? Why are they saying eating products that come from animals is bad but then go on to kill plants to eat them?
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Addicted to MacNN
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If you say you're a vegetarian and eat meat, that makes you a jerk.
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"Faster, faster! 'Till the thrill of speed overcomes the fear of death." - HST
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Senior User
Join Date: Jun 2008
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Originally Posted by osiris
If you say you're a vegetarian and eat meat, that makes you a jerk suitable candidate for execution.
The scene: A restaurant
"I can't eat that, it's got chicken stock in it! This is marked as a vegetarian dish."
"But we've had seven vegetarians in here this week and each of them said it was OK for you vegetarians to eat that."
"They're not vegetarians - they're sub-human scum with no personal standards, who merrily float along on the inanity of popular cultural fashion. Vegetarians do not eat meat, including chicken stock."
"Well we haven't got anything else sir."
"Well thanks for ruining my date."
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If you don't want to be eaten, stop acting like food
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Addicted to MacNN
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"Faster, faster! 'Till the thrill of speed overcomes the fear of death." - HST
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Mac Elite
Join Date: Feb 2006
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A new vegan cafe opened up around the corner from me. I stopped in there once and the place looks more like a lab or pharmacy than a place I would eat. Lot's of dark bottles filled with supplements(why they are needed is beyond me--since vegans & vegetarians swear all their nutrients come from plants), sheer white countertops, and "food" engineered to appear as if it were made with animal products. I had a cookie though and it wasn't bad except for a slightly off texture and chalky aftertaste.
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Clinically Insane
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: San Diego, CA, USA
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I'm with Doofy on "flexitarianism." Besides the whole personal standards thing, all these varieties of meat-eating "vegetarianism" confuse people and lead them to weird ideas like that chicken and fish are types of vegetable.
As a side note, I don't really understand why vegans can't eat honey outside of some ideological purity.
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Chuck
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"Instead of either 'multi-talented' or 'multitalented' use 'bisexual'."
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Clinically Insane
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Around here - "vegan restaurant" = Food tastes like absolute crap. (At least for the few I've been to.)
The sad part is that it doesn't have to. It's as if the restaurants go out of their way to make their food taste like crap by using weird ingredients nobody likes anyway. Like seriously, do you really need to make pancakes using esoteric whole grains with the texture of sand? What's wrong with wheat flour?
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We need a new word for someone who is not religious about it, but is trying to eat less meat. Wow.
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Posting Junkie
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: Cape Cod, MA
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If humans were meant to be Vegan we'd have a mouth full of molars.
I prefer to keep my canines busy.
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Administrator
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: San Antonio TX USA
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I'm sometimes a "meat minimalist." I have reduced the amount of red meat I eat quite drastically, and I don't eat much poultry either. But if I'm at a restaurant that's known for steaks (Texas Land and Cattle Co., for example-YUM!), then I usually have a very nice steak. I wind up eating less animal fat, and stick to really good cuts of really good meats. I'm picky, not obsessive. My rule is that I eat "good foods that are well prepared."
Flip side: my god daughter. She's a vegetarian. She does not eat "anything with a face." That's her rule, not my interpretation of it. So she eats honey, lots of very interesting vegetables and fruits, and has some wonderful recipes for making her diet quite tasty.
Now to me, a "flexitarian" is a hypocrite or a poser. Either they're not really committed to the philosophical and health basis behind vegetarianism, or they're trying to impress someone, but not trying very hard. To me, vegetarianism is a binary situation, like pregnancy. You either are or you aren't. Vegan is just being VERY vegetarian, with tighter rules. Sort of like a kosher vegetarian?
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Glenn -----OTR/L, MOT, Tx
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For one thing, pregnancy is not a binary situation, secondly, why do you think that the amount of meat you eat is a binary thing? A lot of people are cutting down on the amount of meat they eat, some of them cut it down to the extent that they think of themselves as vegetarian. I don't see why you think this is a big deal - perhaps you think that some 'vegetarians' are not 'vegetarian enough' for the label - maybe you're right. So what?
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Professional Poster
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Minneapolis, MN
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I have much more respect for someone who cuts back on meat because it's a healthy decision than for someone who swears off eating all meat because "boo hoo think of the poor fuzzy widdle animals!"
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"That's Mama Luigi to you, Mario!" *wheeze*
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Administrator
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: San Antonio TX USA
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Originally Posted by zombie punk
For one thing, pregnancy is not a binary situation, secondly, why do you think that the amount of meat you eat is a binary thing? A lot of people are cutting down on the amount of meat they eat, some of them cut it down to the extent that they think of themselves as vegetarian. I don't see why you think this is a big deal - perhaps you think that some 'vegetarians' are not 'vegetarian enough' for the label - maybe you're right. So what?
Ummmm. Pregnancy certainly is a binary situation. One either IS pregnant or IS NOT. There is no in between. There are stages of pregnancy, but the woman is pregnant the whole time. Absolutely.
I'm not saying that the amount of meat someone should eat should be binary, but that the LABEL of "vegetarian" implies a choice of either eating meat or NOT eating meat. "Almost vegetarian" could describe someone who eats meat very rarely, but not the label "vegetarian" without some modifying word to point out that meat is an option. Vegetarianism is a choice, not something someone is born with like skin color. Honesty, with oneself and with others, demands that we use such labels accurately, don't you think?
The "so what" part comes in when someone describes himself to me as a vegetarian, and then I see that he indeed eats meat. Does that mean that he's not honest with me on other matters? It's a matter of character to me when someone says "I'm X" and then he shows me that he was not accurate in describing himself.
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Glenn -----OTR/L, MOT, Tx
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Clinically Insane
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: San Diego, CA, USA
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Originally Posted by zombie punk
We need a new word for someone who is not religious about it, but is trying to eat less meat. Wow.
I believe that's called a "healthy eater."
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Chuck
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"Instead of either 'multi-talented' or 'multitalented' use 'bisexual'."
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Senior User
Join Date: Jun 2008
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Originally Posted by zombie punk
For one thing, pregnancy is not a binary situation, secondly, why do you think that the amount of meat you eat is a binary thing? A lot of people are cutting down on the amount of meat they eat, some of them cut it down to the extent that they think of themselves as vegetarian. I don't see why you think this is a big deal - perhaps you think that some 'vegetarians' are not 'vegetarian enough' for the label - maybe you're right. So what?
"So what?"?
Well, the problem is as described above in the restaurant scene. All the people who think they're vegetarian are screwing it up for those of us who actually are.
If you've eaten meat, poultry, fish or any derivative thereof in the last three months, you're not a vegetarian. It's that simple.
And if one actually eats meat occasionally (i.e. the so-called "flexitarian") and one has applied a label to oneself ("nearly vegetarian" or "flexitarian") then quite simply one is just a wanker who's applying the label to impress people - either to get her knickers off or to fit in with some peer group. Either way, if ones does this one is a tosser.
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If you don't want to be eaten, stop acting like food
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Senior User
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Originally Posted by Chuckit
I believe that's called a "health eater fat person."
Fixinatedorness.
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If you don't want to be eaten, stop acting like food
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Clinically Insane
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: yes
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Why shouldn't we be concerned about the animals? I eat meat, but I would very much like to know that the animals were treated humanely up to the time of their slaughter. The problem is that there are no guarantees, which I think is what drives many people to eat less meat or become vegetarian.
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Clinically Insane
Join Date: Mar 2001
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I would like to know ways to get people's knickers off. I'm married, so I wouldn't do anything once they are off, but I would still like to get them off. I don't much care for knickers.
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Clinically Insane
Join Date: Dec 1999
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I'm flexitating between cheeseburgers and bratwurst with caramelized onions.
By the way, my Communications teacher in college was out for several months. She'd been a vegetarian for 30 years and she still had a cholesterol related heart attack. She's no longer a vegetarian, but she does watch her cholesterol very closely.
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"…I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than
you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods,
you will understand why I dismiss yours." - Stephen F. Roberts
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Senior User
Join Date: Jun 2008
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Originally Posted by olePigeon
By the way, my Communications teacher in college was out for several months. She'd been a vegetarian for 30 years and she still had a cholesterol related heart attack. She's no longer a vegetarian, but she does watch her cholesterol very closely.
You sure she was a vegetarian? Is she sure she was a vegetarian? I mean, you guys even soak your McDonalds french fries in some kind of beef giblets... ...and even stuff like your apples aren't actually vegetarian (some kind of beef derivative sprayed onto them to make them look nice on the shelves). It's real hard to be a proper veggie in the US.
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If you don't want to be eaten, stop acting like food
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Clinically Insane
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: San Diego, CA, USA
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Originally Posted by Uncle Doof
You sure she was a vegetarian? Is she sure she was a vegetarian? I mean, you guys even soak your McDonalds french fries in some kind of beef giblets... ...and even stuff like your apples aren't actually vegetarian (some kind of beef derivative sprayed onto them to make them look nice on the shelves). It's real hard to be a proper veggie in the US.
Even if you are a lacto-ovo vegetarian, which most are, you're still leaving some pretty big sources of saturated fat and cholesterol in your diet. And a lot of lacto-ovos go really heavy on both the lacto and the ovo.
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Chuck
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"Instead of either 'multi-talented' or 'multitalented' use 'bisexual'."
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Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Sep 2000
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She was probably eating whole cakes and pies.
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"Faster, faster! 'Till the thrill of speed overcomes the fear of death." - HST
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Dedicated MacNNer
Join Date: Jul 2008
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Originally Posted by Uncle Doof
"So what?"?
Well, the problem is as described above in the restaurant scene. All the people who think they're vegetarian are screwing it up for those of us who actually are.
If you've eaten meat, poultry, fish or any derivative thereof in the last three months, you're not a vegetarian. It's that simple.
And if one actually eats meat occasionally (i.e. the so-called "flexitarian") and one has applied a label to oneself ("nearly vegetarian" or "flexitarian") then quite simply one is just a wanker who's applying the label to impress people - either to get her knickers off or to fit in with some peer group. Either way, if ones does this one is a tosser.
Well, I think you need to set up some kind of certification program so that you can guarantee that people are only using the word in the way you define it.
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Clinically Insane
Join Date: Mar 2001
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Yeah, what happens if that person has only been a vegetarian for 2 months and 30 days and there are 31 days in the month, and another other guy is 2 months and 28 days and that month is February?
I'm clever.
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Clinically Insane
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: San Diego, CA, USA
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Originally Posted by zombie punk
Well, I think you need to set up some kind of certification program so that you can guarantee that people are only using the word in the way you define it.
That doesn't even work for Realtor.
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Chuck
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"Instead of either 'multi-talented' or 'multitalented' use 'bisexual'."
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Senior User
Join Date: Jun 2008
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Originally Posted by zombie punk
Well, I think you need to set up some kind of certification program so that you can guarantee that people are only using the word in the way you define it.
OK, sounds reasonable. $50 per card.
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If you don't want to be eaten, stop acting like food
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Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Toronto
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Originally Posted by Chuckit
As a side note, I don't really understand why vegans can't eat honey outside of some ideological purity.
Didn't you see Bee Movie! It's exploitation!
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Clinically Insane
Join Date: Mar 2001
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Doofy, I honestly wasn't trying to goad you, but rereading what I wrote I can see why you would think that. I apologize. Whether you want to converse with me is up to you, but it was not clear to me that you do not wish to talk to me since we just had a lively conversation about your mail system you want to hire somebody to design. Knowing that you do not wish to talk with me, I'll respect that and ignore you. I don't have a burning desire to talk with you anyway after that spectacle.
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Clinically Insane
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: San Diego, CA, USA
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I just deleted several posts of petty bickering and trolling. Cut it out.
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Chuck
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"Instead of either 'multi-talented' or 'multitalented' use 'bisexual'."
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Clinically Insane
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Caught in a web of deceit.
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I'm an omnivore myself.
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Addicted to MacNN
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Sweet! That was my first car. Dodge Omni (is that what that is up there?). Solid.
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Professional Poster
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Minneapolis, MN
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Originally Posted by Eug
I'm an omnivore myself.
You eat Dodge Omnis?
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"That's Mama Luigi to you, Mario!" *wheeze*
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Clinically Insane
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Caught in a web of deceit.
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Yes. I thought that was obvious from the post.
They are a great source of iron, and do not involve eating any meat whatsoever.
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Mac Elite
Join Date: Apr 2005
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Originally Posted by Horsepoo!!!
Are vegans allowed to eat anything? Why are they saying eating products that come from animals is bad but then go on to kill plants to eat them?
I don't eat anything with a nervous system.
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Mac Elite
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Hong Kong
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Originally Posted by Chuckit
Even if you are a lacto-ovo vegetarian, which most are, you're still leaving some pretty big sources of saturated fat and cholesterol in your diet. And a lot of lacto-ovos go really heavy on both the lacto and the ovo.
I have been a lacto-ovo vegetarian for 30 years, my diet is heavy on yoghurt and cheese, but eggs not as much, maybe 5-10 per month.
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hayesk
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People who don't eat animals for "moral" reasons seem to be perfectly fine slaughtering rabbits and mice during mechanized harvesting of vegetables and grains. Puzzling.
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Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2000
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It's definitely a binary thing. You either are or you aren't - you can't be vegetarian if you occasionally eat meat. You can't be vegan if you occasionally drink milk. If you're a vegan that drinks milk, you're a regular old vegetarian.
My girlfriend is a vegetarian, I suppose, simply because she doesn't like the texture of meat. I'm absolutely not a vegetarian, though my diet is almost entirely vegetarian because we cook things we both eat.
I don't go around calling myself a vegetarian though, because I love a barely-cooked tender-aged steak.
Why do people insist on classifying themselves? **** off. I am what I am.
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Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2000
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Originally Posted by hayesk
People who don't eat animals for "moral" reasons seem to be perfectly fine slaughtering rabbits and mice during mechanized harvesting of vegetables and grains. Puzzling.
Or driving around on tyres made from animal entrails.
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2003
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As I understand from studies (sorry no links) that I watched on 60 Minutes or some-such or read about somewhere here and there is that plants cry and scream when they are killed. You can't hear them but they were wired to scientific stuffs that registered and recorded it.
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: retired
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Originally Posted by Cipher13
Or driving around on tyres made from animal entrails.
WTF!
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Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2000
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Yeah, I've heard people try to tell me that one too. Of course plants react to external stimuli. They are machines, after all, just like animals (humans included).
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Clinically Insane
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: 46 & 2
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I no longer eat "bulk" beef or pork (the crap you see wrapped in plastic at Kroger), and I purchase chicken and eggs from local small farms. The difference in taste is shocking.
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"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
- Thomas Paine
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Professional Poster
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Smallish town in Ohio
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I mostly eat vegetarian stuff like boca burgers and pasta but when I go out to a restaurant I'll order a steak/burger no problem.
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Clinically Insane
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: San Diego, CA, USA
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Originally Posted by hayesk
People who don't eat animals for "moral" reasons seem to be perfectly fine slaughtering rabbits and mice during mechanized harvesting of vegetables and grains. Puzzling.
People act like they're unable to understand the difference between mass torture and unfortunate happenstance. Puzzling.
It may be that one day something I do will inadvertently lead to somebody's death (say, maybe I'll spill some water and it'll become a patch of ice that somebody slips on), but I don't think that's very good justification for me to start breaking into people's houses and dismembering them.
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Chuck
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"Instead of either 'multi-talented' or 'multitalented' use 'bisexual'."
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Fresh-Faced Recruit
Join Date: Jul 2008
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Humm...honey is basically regurgitated nectar so it's nectar + bee spit. That's up to you if you want to eat that.
Flexitarian sounds like an Easter Catholic to me or Jews that eat pork. >_>"
Not say that there is anything wrong with that but it definitely deviates from the original practices.
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Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Sep 2001
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Originally Posted by Shaddim
I no longer eat "bulk" beef or pork (the crap you see wrapped in plastic at Kroger), and I purchase chicken and eggs from local small farms. The difference in taste is shocking.
Exactly.
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Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Sep 2001
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Originally Posted by Chuckit
People act like they're unable to understand the difference between mass torture and unfortunate happenstance. Puzzling.
It may be that one day something I do will inadvertently lead to somebody's death (say, maybe I'll spill some water and it'll become a patch of ice that somebody slips on), but I don't think that's very good justification for me to start breaking into people's houses and dismembering them.
Apples and oranges. Mechanized agriculture leads to the death of animals, whichever way you look at it. It comes with the territory. I agree that the original argument was somewhat facetious, but if you really care about animal life then you would only be able to eat food grown small scale and tended by hand. If you wanted to take this to the logical conclusion you would not even be able to pick off and kill pests of course.
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Administrator
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: San Antonio TX USA
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Originally Posted by Mastrap
Apples and oranges. Mechanized agriculture leads to the death of animals, whichever way you look at it. It comes with the territory. I agree that the original argument was somewhat facetious, but if you really care about animal life then you would only be able to eat food grown small scale and tended by hand. If you wanted to take this to the logical conclusion you would not even be able to pick off and kill pests of course.
Building a house in a new development kills animals, too. Did you do all the research needed to make sure that no animals were harmed in the building of your dwelling? Are you certain that no animals were harmed in bringing your vegetables (I assume they're hand-grown by monks or something) to market?
Human existence is often at a cost to other forms of life on this planet. I think that the best we can do is to work hard at not intentionally harming other living things, and minimizing those possibilities of accidentally harming them. But how are you going to feed the world using manual hoes and rakes? Can you feed YOURSELF with your own, very gentle garden?
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Glenn -----OTR/L, MOT, Tx
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