[Cody Dawg]

Like in Australia.

It's not just us Americans being gouged...it's the ENTIRE WORLD.

[Eug Wanker]

Americans are spoiled as far as fuel prices are concerned.

[Cody Dawg]

By your logic then so are the Australians.

Because we complain we're spoiled?

Yeah, right.

[Eug Wanker]

Originally Posted by Cody Dawg

By your logic then so are the Australians.

Because we complain we're spoiled?

Yeah, right.

What are you talking about? Americans are spoiled for gas prices because it's cheaper in the US than most of the rest of the world.

[the_glassman]

Who would have thought companies were in business to make a profit and figured they could gouge people who are foolish enough to believe they actually need things like a Suburban.

[Sandkat]

Our gas is cheaper because our government doesn't tack on an assload of taxes for gas like others do.

[Eug Wanker]

Originally Posted by Sandkat

Our gas is cheaper because our government doesn't tack on an assload of taxes for gas like others do.

Indeed, and that's why Americans with big-ass vehicles who complain about gas prices sound like whiners to the rest of the world.

[Cody Dawg]

We're not spoiled.

When does spoiled = price gouging/record profits at oil companies?

Sometimes the logic at this place just makes me

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by Eug Wanker

Indeed, and that's why Americans with big-ass vehicles who complain about gas prices sound like whiners to the rest of the world.

So because we aren't over-charged, we can't complain?

pfft.

[loki74]

I don't think that any companies here are really gouging. Maybe OPEC is, but not the other companies. (Conoco Phillips, bp, etc etc).

Seriosuly, people throw out those figures of how much net profit they make. And they figure that they just take that money to the mall and have the time of their lives. But it really doesn't happen that way. IIRC, getting new capital and maintaining capital comes out of net profit. Unless I'm mistaken, those things are not included in overhead and stuff. So yeah you can have x-million or billion dollars, but if you didn't keep up with depreciation, you'd start shrinking and eventually go under.

We really don't have it all that bad...

[Doofy]

Either which way, you folks out there in the colonies aren't paying $6 a gallon. So quit whining.

[Cody Dawg]

So because we aren't over-charged, we can't complain?

pfft.

This country is the engine for the rest of the world. We deserve a break.

[Oisín]

You Will Be Happy To Know That Oil Price Gouging Is Worldwide

Ah yes, it makes me absolutely ravished to know that. Nothing could have made me happier.

[Spliffdaddy]

Well, we are the only country taking an active effort to keep oil prices down - by kicking ass in the middle east - not by warming chairs and moving lips and wishing things were better.

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by Spliffdaddy

Well, we are the only country taking an active effort to keep oil prices down - by kicking ass in the middle east

[UNTeMac]

Originally Posted by Spliffdaddy

Well, we are the only country taking an active effort to keep oil prices down - by kicking ass in the middle east - not by warming chairs and moving lips and wishing things were better.

[RobOnTheCape]

Did anyone else see the article recently which stated that there is a bill being put forward to tax owners of hybrids since they will be using less gas, thus not paying their "fairshare" of taxes from the fuel tax? Ya just can't win.

[Ghoser777]

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/...in674120.shtml

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/articl...NGA4CBJH81.DTL

[KeriVit]

cmon, we pay less than others. we also consume so much more than we need to. I'm not an energy activist or anything, but my friend in Iraq is really convincing me that US consumes a lot of stuff- cuz we can.

No, I don't want gouging, but we will always need gas and we will pay whatever it costs, let's find something else to tax, like.... brownies or coffee? I'm tired.

[Doofy]

Yay! The environmentally conscious left creates a situation where civil liberties are infringed by the government knowing exactly where your car is at all times (i.e. via the in-car GPS unit required for this new type of road taxing scheme). Way to go guys!

of course, the above comment assumes that you'll go the same way as Europe and have the GPS (in order to charge differently for different roads/times).

If you go the same way as the article suggests...

The new tax would be charged each time you fill up. A computer inside the gas pump would communicate with your car's odometer to calculate how much you owe.

...then I don't fancy your chances in getting any gas for your lawnmower (as they'd assume that you were tipping it into your car and thus avoiding fuel taxes).

[f1000]

Originally Posted by RobOnTheCape

Did anyone else see the article recently which stated that there is a bill being put forward to tax owners of hybrids since they will be using less gas, thus not paying their "fairshare" of taxes from the fuel tax? Ya just can't win.

A fairer tax would be one based on [miles driven annually] x [car mass].

[ShortcutToMoncton]

Well, at least the oil companies aren't setting record profits every year.

*cough*

greg

[Fyre4ce]

Originally Posted by f1000

A fairer tax would be one based on [miles driven annually] x [car mass].

The fairest tax of all would be placed on all fossil fuels (gasoline, diesel, Jet A, natural gas, coal, oil, etc), and the tax revenue would be given back to consumers in fixed amounts, and in extra chunks to those who make intelligent energy decisions like buying a hybrid. It would work like this:

-Let's say gas costs $2 per gallon right now. This new fossil fuel tax would be $6 per gallon, for a total price of $8 per gallon.

-Money will be disbursed to employed adults in the country assuming 25 mpg vehicle, living 10 miles away from work, 240 working days per year, with an additional 100% allowance other forms of driving, totaling 9600 miles driven per year. Thus, at the beginning of the year, you would receive a check from the government for:

($6 / gallon) x (9600 miles) / (25 miles / gallon) = $2,304

If you actually drove a 25 mpg car 9600 miles per year, you would pay back your tax money dollar-for-dollar, and break even:

($8 / gallon) x (9600 miles) / (25 miles / gallon) = $3,072

$3,072 - $2,304 = $768

But, this is what you would have paid had gas been $2 per gallon:

($2 / gallon) x (9600 miles) / (25 miles / gallon) = $768

Let's suppose you instead drive a chevy suburban and get 12.5 mpg, and drive the same distance:

($8 / gallon) x (9600 miles) / (12.5 miles / gallon) = $6,144

$6,144 - $2,304 = $3,840

Your fuel consumption increased by a factor of two, but your total fuel cost increases by a factor of five. Three-quarters of the extra money goes to the government, and only one-quarter goes to the oil companies. What does the government do with the money? Give it to people like below:

Let's suppose that you trade in your 25 mpg car for a 35 mpg car, and also find a way to cut out 800 miles of driving per year. Total fuel expenditure:

($8 / gallon) x (8800 miles) / (35 miles / gallon) = $2,011

$2,011 - $2,304 = -$293

That's right - you would actually make a profit of $293 per year under this plan. If you didn't drive at all, and took public transportation or walked, all of your fuel allowance would be profit ($2,304). Where would the money come from? From all the people who drive Suburbans and Expeditions! They would all be paying money into the fund for the fuel-savers to take. Another nice consequence of having a tax like this is that all forms of consumption, like motor boats, ATV's, jet skis, etc, would fall under the tax because they all consume resources in the same way. There's no need for devices to measure your mileage, because the money is taken when the fuel is pumped. Realize that a tax like this would not place any restrictions on human behavior. Love that Suburban and don't want to give it up? No problem! The tax would simply force you to: (a) acknowledge the fact that you're excessively consuming a limited natural resource, and (b) indirectly pay for others to consume less than they do now, offsetting your extra consumption.

The tax rate was chosen at $6 per gallon merely to illustrate how the system would work; if it were ever put into practice, the tax would need to be carefully calculated based on a variety of social and economic factors. I would guess it would be less than $6 per gallon.

Discuss!

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by Fyre4ce

Discuss!

This is how communism started.

[Fyre4ce]

delete me!

[Fyre4ce]

delete me!

[Fyre4ce]

Another point I am compelled to make:

The term "gouging," in the strict sense, refers to the sharp increase of the price of a good in some special circumstance, like jacking up the price of plywood before a hurricane, or jacking up the price of ice after a hurricane. The funny thing is, this price increase is exactly in accordance with the law of supply-and-demand! But the government takes pity on disaster victims and says that in those cases, the laws of supply and demand do not apply.

If it's something that is on-going, it's not "gouging" - it's simply supply-and-demand in action. Don't want to pay $3.50 for a gallon of gas? Fine! Don't buy it, and walk to work instead. ... What's that? You do want to fill up after all? Cash or credit?

The purpose of an economy is to provide consumers with the goods they desire at a price they are willing and able to pay. If you are willing and able to $3.50 per gallon for gasoline, in a sense, there is no problem here. From an economic perspective, it's your fault for becoming dependent on gasoline that you are willing to pay so much for it.

Now, if it only costs oil companies, say, $1 per gallon to produce and deliver gasoline, then they would be seeing $2.50 profit per gallon, which is a 250% profit margin! If there were only one oil company in the world, they could charge whatever they wanted for gas. If they were smart, they would find the price that would maximize their profits, and it would probably be very high (I'd guess more than $10/gallon). This would be called a monopoly, and according to the government, monopolies are bad. Fortunately for us consumers, competition eliminates the high prices associated with monopolies, at least in theory.

If two oil companies are competing for your business, they know you will buy the cheaper gasoline so they will each try to undercut the other's prices. Prices for both companies will approach $1 per gallon (their cost to produce it). Theoretically, in a perfect economy, with perfect competition, all firms have a profit of zero. When two firms secretly conspire to both raise their prices, that's called price fixing, which is illegal and will send CEO's to jail.

One of the criticisms of the Exxon/Mobil merger is that it will reduce competition in the energy industry and hurt consumers by raising prices. Our increase in fuel prices may be partly as a result of that merger.

Fyre4ce, economics professor extraordinaire, needs to stop writing on MacNN and go to sleep.

[Fyre4ce]

delete me!

[Fyre4ce]

delete me!

[Fyre4ce]

Mods, would you please delete my duplicate posts? The hamster was misbehaving last night.

Thanks.

[wdlove]

At least prices have decreased. Pubic outrage over gouging reached the boardrooms and they responded out of fear.

[Eug Wanker]

Originally Posted by wdlove

At least prices have decreased. Pubic outrage over gouging reached the boardrooms and they responded out of fear.

No they didn't. Gas prices dropped because oil prices dropped as supplies increased.

[cmeisenzahl]

Well I think it does, just to a lesser extent. ;-)

[Fyre4ce]

Originally Posted by wdlove

At least prices have decreased. Pubic outrage over gouging reached the boardrooms and they responded out of fear.

Fear of what? Read my post on "gouging."

[sek929]

Exxon Mobil's profits are up 70% (or so) from Q3 of last year....

And they throw drug dealers in jail, ha!

Corporate criminals, gotta love em.