[nancyboy41]

hey everyone, i'm new here and will be buying a new computer in the very near future (read: next week), and i'm about 95% sure that i'm fed up with bill gates and windows, and want to buy an apple computer. with that said, i don't really know what to buy. the main things i want to do are general computing/schoolwork type things (which, from what i understand, most anything is capable of), digital music, and a digital studio for my music (i'm a big music guy). the imacs look awfully sexy, and the limited time that i spent with them at compusa gave me a positive feeling, but i'm still not sure. the g5's are awfully nice, but they're quite a bit expensive, especially when you factor in that they don't have a monitor. they're also a bit on the bulky side. so, is there anyone willing to help guide me? i'd be willing to consider anything, be it laptop/desktop whatever. thanks a ton. tim

[WizOSX]

nancyboy41--

I think your question will be a lot easier to answer in about 3 weeks. Jobs is giving the Keynote speech at MacWorld San Francisco on Tuesday, Jan. 6. He will introduce some new products then (almost for sure). My guess is that there will be some significant additions that will influence you choice.

[nancyboy41]

well ya see...its sort of a christmas present, so i don't nec cesarily have time to wait until january. so what to make of the options available now, perhaps?

[Zoom_zoom]

Well I recomend the iMac,
Just like you i was fed up with Gates and his windows, I use my imac 17" 1Ghz to do every thing you have listed here

general computing/schoolwork,
digital music,
and a digital studio for my music

I would also reccomend the iBook, they are small & Sexy.

Well thats my 2cents, I hope you find what you are looking for nancyboy41!

-ZoOm ZoOm

[spookykids]

if your not gonna use prossessor heavy programs you wont really need the power of the g5. if i were you id get the 20" imac. its just so delicious!

which ever you chose, you wont go wrong

[nancyboy41]

i've been leaning towards the imac, but have heard things that have delayed my decision. one is the lack of memory, if i'm correct the imac runs at 256mb, as opposed to the (supposed) standard of 512mb. as well as integrated audio (as opposed to a better soundcard, which i hear is good for recording)now, i do have a limited knowledge of computers, but to be honest, things like ram and gigahertz and whatnot really don't mean all that much to me. what i want to know is will this particular machine do what i want it to? if i don't need 512mb, then i won't get it, ya know?

also, i've been looking at the ibooks, which seem very cool, but none seem to come outfitted with a superdrive. a superdrive isn't neccesarily a must for me, but i'd like to have it

zoom zoom, would you mind telling me about your studio setup? id like to hear some details as to how it all works. i actually read an article about it in a magazine today, but i'd like to hear an account from an actual person. thank you all very much for your assistance

[discotronic]

Originally posted by nancyboy41:
i've been leaning towards the imac, but have heard things that have delayed my decision. one is the lack of memory, if i'm correct the imac runs at 256mb, as opposed to the (supposed) standard of 512mb. as well as integrated audio (as opposed to a better soundcard, which i hear is good for recording)now, i do have a limited knowledge of computers, but to be honest, things like ram and gigahertz and whatnot really don't mean all that much to me. what i want to know is will this particular machine do what i want it to? if i don't need 512mb, then i won't get it, ya know?

also, i've been looking at the ibooks, which seem very cool, but none seem to come outfitted with a superdrive. a superdrive isn't neccesarily a must for me, but i'd like to have it

zoom zoom, would you mind telling me about your studio setup? id like to hear some details as to how it all works. i actually read an article about it in a magazine today, but i'd like to hear an account from an actual person. thank you all very much for your assistance

The iMac comes standard with 256MB of RAM. I wouldn't run anything less than 512MB since OSX is such a RAM hog. RAM is fairly cheap right now so a 256MB upgrade shouldn't cost that much.

Check out: www.mcetech.com

You can get a Superdrive with the iBook through them.

I have both an iBook and an iMac. If you don't need the portability and the price isn't a factor, get the iMac. From what you say you want to do, either one would work great. You are right about one thing...The iMac is very sexy

[WizOSX]

nancyboy41--

Can you buy at educational discount? If you can, Apple offers some very good prices. Dollar for dollar, if you are considering an iBook with a Superdrive added aftermarket, you're probably better off buying the 12" Powerbook for $1599. But, by far, the cheapest Superdrive equipped Mac is the eMac at $999 (ed. price)! --since that has monitor and Superdrive included. The only disadvantage is sheer size.

[nancyboy41]

wiz-
yes, i can buy at the discount (for a little while longer at least), so that definitely helps. the emacs seem cool, although i haven't really thought much about them. something about it doesn't seem like my particular brand of tea. i went back to compusa today and spent a good amount of time with various macs. i really enjoyed everything that i tried out, which of course is making this decision that much harder. i spent the most time with the 20" imac, (although if i buy one, i'll probably just go with the 17") although i'm still concerned about its integrated soundcard/lack of upgradeability. the one i used ran on 256mb, and to be honest, i couldn't tell too much of a difference compared with the g5's. granted, i didn't open a bunch of programs at once, but really, how often am i gonna do that? (seriously, i may end up needing to do that a lot, i just don't know). one thing that is almost certain though, is that whatever i buy, it will probably have a little apple on it somewhere. as my friend put it "all the creative geniuses uses macs" and "macs don't just call to anyone. they're very selective, and you should be honored". haha. anyways, thanks a lot everyone, and please continue with your input, i'm trying to gather as much information as possible. tim

[Luca Rescigno]

Maybe you'd be better off with a PowerMac G4. No need to get a G5, and no worries about the PowerMac G4 being updated since I don't think it will be any time soon (maybe just to discontinue it in about a month).

I have a used PowerMac G4 and I love it. I'm not into the iThings - I've owned an iBook and an eMac in the past, both supposedly "faster" than my current dual 450 MHz PowerMac G4, but I sold them anyway and went with the G4. I love being able to tinker, add stuff, remove stuff, etc. And it'll work with any Mac-compatible sound card because it has PCI slots. eBay has plenty of used PowerMac G4s and you can also get them from Apple. It's $1300 for a single 1.25 GHz machine and $1600 for a dual 1.25 GHz machine that'll give any single G5 a run for its money.

You can always buy RAM upgrades too. So if it comes with 256 MB, just buy at least an extra 256 MB and it'll have 512 MB, which is basically what you need (the more the better, always).

[nredman]

i would wait until after MacWorld before you buy unless you can't wait. then maybe you can save some money or get a better machine. that said...in your case i would suggest getting an imac....either 17" or the new 20". the money you can save from getting an imac instead of a G5 can be used for an iPod for all your music and max the imacs ram out. its your first mac so i'd say get an imac and then if you find you need more power then in the future you can get a G5. good luck

[nancyboy41]

i'm definitely leaning towards an imac. and yes, no matter what i get, (even if god strikes me with lightning and i end up with a pc) there will be an ipod in my future...

however, i was browsing the apple website for the umpteenth time, and was fooling with some configurations, and come up with this ibook g4:

(this is with the educational discount)


� 640MB DDR266 (128MB built-in & 512MB SO-DIMM)
� 60GB Ultra ATA drive
� Combo Drive (DVD-ROM/CD-RW)
� Keyboard/Mac OS X - U.S. English
� 14.1-inch TFT XGA display
� 933MHz PowerPC G4
� ATI Mobility Radeon 9200 w/ 32MB DDR video memory


Subtotal $1,379.00

now, i don't really know what 512mb SO-DIMM means, so if someone could help me with that, i would appreciate it. anyways, what do you folks think of this? should i consider it? the price doesn't seem to bad...

[WizOSX]

SO-DIMM is the type of memory that goes in notebooks (Mac and PC). So if you go into BestBuy and look at memory you'll see DIMM's (for desktops) and SO-DIMMs (for notebooks).

[WizOSX]

But for $1399 you can get a 12" PowerBook. 1ghz. Twice as much L2 cache, which really does help. Personally, I'd go for that instead, if you really want notebook. Unless you really need the larger screen, of course.

Also, I don't see how you got the machine beginning with 128mb? The 14" iBooks begin with 256.

[WizOSX]

Sorry, yes, I do see. 128mb builtin + 512 SO-DIMM.

[nancyboy41]

hmm...well, to be honest, i almost feel like i'm in a win-win situation. it sounds like anything i buy will at the very least be able to do a decent job of what i want it to. granted, if i'm going to spend this much money, then i want to make sure that i get exactly what i want/need, but whatever it's proving to be a very tough call. i'm really leaning towards the imac. upgrading memory isn't too expensive, so i'm not too worried about that. the only thing that really has me concerned is the lack of soundcard upgradeability, and to be honest, i really don't know how big of a deal that is. is there anything else i should know? any hidden evils? i know i'm asking an awful lot, but as of right now, it's probably between the imac 17in, or that ibook i posted earlier (i'm not sure why, but i'm not really feelin the powerbooks), but i'd really like to be able to make a pros/cons list for both, and am having a terrible time doing it thanks in advance though, for any answers anyone takes the time to write, and thanks for all the help thus far. mac people are nice tim


.....just think of all the questions i'll have when i actually start <i>using</i> a mac!

[CreepDogg]

It's true you can't update the internal sound card, but if at whatever point you decide you need more than the sound card offers, you can always get a USB or FireWire audio interface. I've used a MOTU 828 ((www.motu.com) and it has worked well. Kind of depends on what you want to do with audio processing. Other than that, the iMac will be everything you need...good luck.

[willab]

You might want to look at the G4 Power Macs. They start at 1300, and you would need to add RAM and a monitor on top of that. They will let you upgrade your soundcard.

[Starry Night]

Originally posted by nancyboy41:
hmm...well, to be honest, i almost feel like i'm in a win-win situation. it sounds like anything i buy will at the very least be able to do a decent job of what i want it to. granted, if i'm going to spend this much money, then i want to make sure that i get exactly what i want/need, but whatever it's proving to be a very tough call. i'm really leaning towards the imac. upgrading memory isn't too expensive, so i'm not too worried about that. the only thing that really has me concerned is the lack of soundcard upgradeability, and to be honest, i really don't know how big of a deal that is. is there anything else i should know? any hidden evils? i know i'm asking an awful lot, but as of right now, it's probably between the imac 17in, or that ibook i posted earlier (i'm not sure why, but i'm not really feelin the powerbooks), but i'd really like to be able to make a pros/cons list for both, and am having a terrible time doing it thanks in advance though, for any answers anyone takes the time to write, and thanks for all the help thus far. mac people are nice tim


.....just think of all the questions i'll have when i actually start <i>using</i> a mac!

Tim,

I went through a similiar debate last summer. I debated between the imac and the 1.25mhz G4 PowerMac. The imac is a nice machine, however in the end, I opted for the PowerMac, here's why.

1) For a desktop, I feel the all in one design is too limiting and a ploy by Apple to force you to upgrade the whole computer when the time comes. If the imac display dies, that's pretty much it, gotta buy a new computer.

2) When I did comparisons, I found the imac TFT display to be of mediocre quality, imho, more of a laptop quality than desktop quality. It's ok. I bought a NEC 1760V 17" display (hundreds less than Apple's 17" LCD and better quality with a 3yr warranty included in price), for my powermac, and it has been great. Down the road, should I want a different display, no problem, just sell the display and buy a new one. Want a different computer, no problem, sell the PM, keep the display! I like having that flexibility, something the imac can't offer.

3) For upgradeablitity, the PM simply offers a lot more options. If you get more serious about your music, having that flexibility could prove useful.

A year ago, the G4 PowerMac was priced significantly more than the imac. At that time, it made more sense for the budget concious to get an imac. Now however, you can get the 1.25mhz PM for $1299. And it's a rock solid machine.

Imho, if you want an all in one design, skip the imac and go for the ibook or powerbook. That way you at least get something for having to deal with an all in one design, namely, portability.

For a desktop, especially if you want flexibility on the internal upgrade department, get the $1299 Power Mac and a 3rd party display. Although this is a bit taboo to say on these boards, but Apple LCD displays are not that great until you get up the Cinema display level, especially for the dollar, when compared to the likes of Samsung and NEC (among others).

In the end, you won't go wrong with any of them, imac, ibook, powerbook, or powermac. But given your stated concern about internal upgradeablity, the imac may not be your best option.

Good Luck!

[nancyboy41]

thanks a lot for your input. i really appreciate everyone taking the time to help me. this decision just seems to be getting more difficult!(but in a strangely good way ) until i read the last post, i was 90% sure i was gonna go with an imac, but now i'm back to square one. definitely my only issue with the imac is it's lack of internal upgradeability, but i guess the real question is whether or not that's going to be a major issue. my biggest problem with the PM is space. i've got space now, but i'll probably be moving soon, and space may or may not be an issue. obviously a notebook would resolve that issue...anyways, i'm still not sure what i'm gonna do. the general consensus seems to be that i can't go wrong either way (and after i drop $1500-$2000 on a computer, i'll probably be saying the same thing! ), so we'll see what happens. if anyone has any words of wisdom, i'm surely open to hearing it thanks a lot.

[Starry Night]

Originally posted by nancyboy41:
thanks a lot for your input. i really appreciate everyone taking the time to help me. this decision just seems to be getting more difficult!(but in a strangely good way ) until i read the last post, i was 90% sure i was gonna go with an imac, but now i'm back to square one. definitely my only issue with the imac is it's lack of internal upgradeability, but i guess the real question is whether or not that's going to be a major issue. my biggest problem with the PM is space. i've got space now, but i'll probably be moving soon, and space may or may not be an issue. obviously a notebook would resolve that issue...anyways, i'm still not sure what i'm gonna do. the general consensus seems to be that i can't go wrong either way (and after i drop $1500-$2000 on a computer, i'll probably be saying the same thing! ), so we'll see what happens. if anyone has any words of wisdom, i'm surely open to hearing it thanks a lot.

If you think that space is going to be a major factor down the road, both the PM and iMac could prove to be an albatross. Go notebook. Between the PM and iMac, it's kind of a toss up space wise. The iMac takes up more space on your desk, while the PM's cpu can be hidden away, leaving just the display on the desk. Of course, to make that work, you have to have a place to put the CPU.

For a desktop, a third party display is a good idea for this reason as well. If you purchase from Amazon, you can return the display for any reason whatsoever, even just one dead pixel. You'd have to pay the return shipping, but that's better than being stuck with dead pixels that don't meet Apple's threshold for defective.

A nice set up for you could be a 12" ibook or Powerbook, and a 17" 3rd party display LCD (and keyboard) to plug the laptop into when you're at home. That gives you the imac feel plus portability and nice screen real estate at home. Also, it won't take up much space at all. You sacrifice the internal upgrading of the PM, but it may suit your overall needs better.

Good Luck!

[WizOSX]

Not to make your decision any harder but I think you need to accept up front that there is no ideal solution in the computer world. In my case, since I value both portability and upgradability, I have constantly flip-flopped between notebooks and desktops (as you can see from my list of machines below, which are pretty much in time order). You seem to have wisely isolated the factors which are important to you. If you are sure that you will not be carrying the machine from place to place I wouldn't get a notebook, for the reasons you've already stated. If I were in your position I would probably either go for the Powermac tower due to low price or a 15" iMac. In either case, put the difference in the bank and trade up to a more permanent machine in about a year when you have a better sense of what you want/need.



_________________________________________________
iBook 700/combo �..................... PowerMac 6100�................. Mac SE FDHD
PowerMac Dual 867 MDD .........� Powerbook Duo 230�......... Mac SE dual floppy
Ti Powerbook 550 �..................... Mac IIsi�................................ Mac 128k
PowerMac 7600 .........................� Mac IIcx...............................� Apple IIe

[Luca Rescigno]

It's often difficult to determine what you like. It took me a year and a half of buying and selling machines to learn what works best for me.

For years I had just used old PowerMac desktops that my parents handed down to me when they upgraded. First a IIcx, then a Quadra 610, then a PowerMac 7100, a PowerMac 8100, and finally a Wallstreet PowerBook G3. The Wallstreet was great, much faster than any of the previous machines I had, but it was still pretty obsolete for its time (I got it in early 2002). I wanted a machine for OS X, so I sold the Wallstreet and bought a dual 500 MHz G4 and a 17" monitor. But the dual 500 only lasted a couple months before I started missing the portability of the PowerBook. I never really brought it places with me, but it was very nice for carrying from my dorm back home and back. I tried messing around with a "secondary machine" to use at home, but that didn't work out too well so I sold the dual 500 and bought an 800 MHz G3 iBook. After a few months the iBook was feeling cramped and slow - after owning it for nine months I sold it and bought a 1 GHz eMac. But I didn't like the eMac either, I missed my dual 500, so I bought a dual 450, which is my current machine. It took me a long time and quite a bit of money, but basically I'm in love with the expandability of the older PowerMacs.

[nancyboy41]

can someone tell me, if i were to buy an ibook, could i get an external dvd burner or something like that? that would be something to look into...

[stwain2003]

Nancyboy, I would FOR SURE get the powermac g4.

As StarryNight said, It will be better in the future. They also have the L3 cache on them, which really helps the speed. If i were you, which really should be if i had the cash , i would get the powermac g4. Good points of the g4.

1. Its an apple!
2. You will be able to upgrade to a G5 when the upgrades come out.*
3. 2 Gigs of ram instead of 1GB*
4. 2 Optical Drives*
5. VERY nice looking
6. OS9 Bootable
7. 640 gigs of space, instead of 160*
8. L3 cache
9. Standard Video card is dual display
10. SCSI Support*
11. OSX Server*


*= These are upgrade options

[WizOSX]

Originally posted by nancyboy41

its sort of a christmas present, so i don't neccesarily have time to wait until january.

Originally posted by nancyboy41

can someone tell me, if i were to buy an ibook, could i get an external dvd burner or something like that? that would be something to look into...

Since the second post was on Dec. 26 I gather that you've given up on the Christmas present idea. What is your time frame now? Again, if at all possible, wait a few weeks. I think you'll regret it otherwise.

I wouldn't bother with an external DVD writer. They're just too expensive and its cumbersome to have it and a notebook. If you're considering that option, just go with a desktop. And if you wait, a G5 desktop may make the most sense in 2004.

[nancyboy41]

wiz-

whatever the final decision is, it will come this monday. thats my deadline (not a self imposed deadline, mind you). so, ive had to narrow it down. after much deliberation, ive narrowed it down to 2 1/2 choices (bear with me here ). they are...

(it is worth note that the powermac g4 isn't really an option. unfortunately, the monitor im using now is on its last legs. its a long story as to how, but i would feel bad outfitting my brand new apple with a subpar monitor...i know its kinda silly, but whatever...and space is sort of an issue, not a huge issue, but the smaller we can get, the better. )

-imac g4 17in.
i chose this because 1)it is the smallest of the desktop options, 2) despite its lack of upgradeability, i think it will be capable of what i need it to do. i can upgrade ram and hard drive capacity, which is the most important thing. and while it won't be perfect, i think the soundcard it ships with should be adequate. after all, i'm not made out of money (at least i won't be once i buy a new computer ) 3)it looks really freakin cool (which is something that, in my initial stages of researching this, really turned me away from pc's and towards apples. go look at the dell website. everything they sell is hideous)

-ibook g4 or powerbook g4
(the ibook if the powebook is financially not an option)1) they're portable, duh 2) the powerbook is a lot like a portable imac 3) they look really freakin cool...4) well, do i really need any other reasons? they're essentially the same as the above.

anyways, please post your comments, if there are any glaring mistakes i am making, or if you REALLY feel like the powermac g4 is the way to go, then let me know. thanks a lot everyone.

[Starry Night]

If you really don't want to get a PM, then of course, don't get one. However, the logic regarding your old monitor doesn't quite make sense. The 17" imac is $1799. The 1.25GHZ PM is $1299. With the $500 savings you can get a very nice quality, brand new, 3rd party flat panel LCD display, like the NEC 1760V for instance. I got one for just over $400.

You have to decide how important the style of the imac is to you vs. the greater functionality and flexibility of the PM.

If you go laptop, I suggest the Powerbook.

Good Luck!

[MichiganRich]

Man, everybody has given you some awesome advice here.... the pros and cons have been thoroughly discussed. Don't forget to post back when you decide!!!

[CreepDogg]

On the iMac vs. the PM G4 - certainly the PM has some greater flexibility, but one other advantage of the iMac (besides simplicity) is that it is much quieter than the PM - this CAN be a factor for sound recording.

The PM flexibility is good for heavy (read: pro studio) audio processing, but USB and FireWire solutions are more than adequate for most applications.

Good luck.

[Rev-O]

Originally posted by nancyboy41:
can someone tell me, if i were to buy an ibook, could i get an external dvd burner or something like that? that would be something to look into...

Yup on the external burner... but jus' get a PB with a built in superdrive so it is g2g with iDVD.

If I could have only one computer it'd be a powerbook. Superdrive, more gumption than an iBook, portable, etc. Second choice would be a powermac of whatever variety, and last choice would be an iMac. Of course, this order meets *my* needs, as I am not a hard core photoshop user or anything!

At any rate, really, I think it is win-win for you!

[nancyboy41]

well folks, in just a few short minutes, i'll be off to compusa to have a look around and see what they've got going on. odds are that today i'll be buying a new mac. yes, i'm quite excited. in typical fashion,i think it's gonna be a gametime decision as to what i actually buy. i'm going to spend a lot of time with everything before i make any decisions. i want to thank everyone here for all their help and advice. you all have really made this difficult decision immensely easier, and have also shown to me that should i ever have problems or questions with my mac, there should be someone to help me. hopefully the next post i make will be on my new computer thanks again. -tim

[Dr Reducto]

A lot of recording is being done with external Firewire and USB based audio interfaces. The only thing you might miss is not having a DSP PCI card, but an iMac or iBook would work great with what you are going to do as a newb at recording.

Check this site out:
www.digidesign.com

[Rev-O]

Originally posted by nancyboy41:
odds are that today i'll be buying a new mac. yes, i'm quite excited. in typical fashion,i think it's gonna be a gametime decision as to what i actually buy. -tim

Well?

[nancyboy41]

alright everyone, it just goes to show you that life is never boring. so two days ago, i went down to compusa, played with stuff, and bought an imac, 17in. now the real kicker is that they didnt have one in stock, so ive been waiting for it to come in (presumably tomorrow). well, while the guy was going to look and see if they had any, i wandered over to the powerbooks, just for the heck of it, and looked at the 12 inch, which i previously had no intention of buying. the thing is, 12 inches really isnt as small as it sounds....and well, seeing how its not too late for me to change my mind, ive really been thinking about a powerbook. i swear this is crazy! i really dont know what to do...

[Agent69]

My only advice is that if you can't decide, then wait. There is no point in buying something that you won't be happy with.

[Graymalkin]

The Powerbook makes for a really nice audio workstation. The screen is definitely not as small as it sounds and you can of course hook it up to a normal monitor when you're at home, I do this with mine. It is pretty easy to upgrade the memory in the Powerbooks, all you need to do is unscrew a panel on the bottom and slide the RAM chip in. I've got 640MB of RAM, the Powerbook originally came with 256MB.

For audio I don't think you'll have a problem. Several companies make very nice audio interfaces that plug into a computer via USB or Firewire connections. My brother does lots of audio work on his iBook with a USB audio interface he got for $100. He takes recordings off his DAT to master them on the computer then burns them to CD.

One major benefit with a portable system is you can do your audio work anywhere. You can do your post production work at Starbucks, on a long drive, or even in the bathroom.

There's nothing wrong with the 17" iMac but the Powerbook is a pretty decent choice as well. They're quire powerful and very portable. My current 12" Powerbook is my second Mac laptop and forth Mac.

[Love Calm Quiet]

With other features of ibook starting to catch up with PBooks, ONE thing stands out about why I LOVE my TiBook: EXPANDABILITY - I can port it anywhere with a satisfactory screen - and then attach it to a SECOND screen when at home. For some projects, that extra real estate is everything.

[Starry Night]

Originally posted by Love Calm Quiet:
With other features of ibook starting to catch up with PBooks, ONE thing stands out about why I LOVE my TiBook: EXPANDABILITY - I can port it anywhere with a satisfactory screen - and then attach it to a SECOND screen when at home. For some projects, that extra real estate is everything.

The biggest endorsement of the powerbook comes virtue of the class action lawsuits against Apple over ibook logic board failures! News of the suits even made CNN's news crawl yesterday....

[nancyboy41]

my only major concerns with the powerbook are a)the screen size, which might not turn into a big issue, and b) this will be my first mac and my first laptop, which sorta scares me. i dont know if i should go for a more familiar desktop for my first mac, and then consider a notebook down the line. the imac and powerbook both seem like fantastic machines...

[Starry Night]

Originally posted by nancyboy41:
my only major concerns with the powerbook are a)the screen size, which might not turn into a big issue, and b) this will be my first mac and my first laptop, which sorta scares me. i dont know if i should go for a more familiar desktop for my first mac, and then consider a notebook down the line. the imac and powerbook both seem like fantastic machines...

Keep in mind, the iMac is sorta a laptop w/out portability. The screen is attached to the CPU, like a laptop. The upgrade possibilities are very similiar between the PB and iMac, perhaps the PB is better in this regard because of monitor spanning. With the PB, you can add an external display and end up with a really huge desktop space. That would give both a destop and laptop in one computer. You can also customize the 12" display so that things appear as large as you wish.

Between the two, I'd go for the PB. If you're going to be saddled similiar upgrade limitations, go for the portability. And from what I've read, the 12" PB is the most trouble free of Apple's laptops. Of course, avoid the ibook until apple gets the logic board issues sorted out.

But in the end, you have to get what *you* want

Good Luck!

[Olorin]

I too have changed Macs for a long time now. Never bothered with a PC. Actually, I hardly know how to use them... which tends to be a problem. All my experiences with them have been bad... lol okay on to the topic...

My first computer was a Performa (i forget the numbers). I then bought another Performa 6200/200 a few years later. The hard drive crashed on it but besides that it worked fine. I eventually got a PowerBook G3 (the original) I actually kept that computer for about 4 years and loved it. Then I got an iMac DV. I honestly didn't like it that much. I ended up with a PowerBook G4/400 damn DVD drive crashed twice. I ended up selling it and buying an iMac G4. I sold the iMac a year later and bought a 1Ghz powerBook G4Ti. Well my current PowerBook 1Ghz is great, and I really can't imagine ever needing another computer.

The one thing I learned over the years is that it is best to get the top of the line and just keep it. My most expensive machine was the Powerbook G3 and I kept it for over 4 years while all the low cost machines did not make me happy in the end. My Powerbook G4 1Ghz was also top of the line and I don't think i am going to get rid of it for quite a while. I say save the money and buy a 15" PowerBook G4 or PowerMac G5. I honestly find the PowerBooks to be really useful; however, I take my computer every where with me. It is sort of a thing you have to get used to doing though. I do not want to bash the imacs but in the end you will not be happy with it and you will want a better machine. If you ever end up wanting to play Doom 3 or etc you will want the bigger cache and faster graphics card etc. In the end you save money just dropping the money on the big guy. TRUST ME! I have been doing this for years.

[nancyboy41]

hello folks. im currently writing this post from my new 17 inch imac. i must say, thus far, im a bit disappointed. im finding the os to be somewhat clunky and not very user friendly. and everytime i open a quicktime movie, the whole thing locks up on me and i have to reboot. i really want to love my mac, after all, it still looks fantastic, but im not sure that its the right machine for me. with ipod and itunes being available for windows, i'm starting to consider if maybe i made the wrong choice....

[Starry Night]

Originally posted by nancyboy41:
hello folks. im currently writing this post from my new 17 inch imac. i must say, thus far, im a bit disappointed. im finding the os to be somewhat clunky and not very user friendly. and everytime i open a quicktime movie, the whole thing locks up on me and i have to reboot. i really want to love my mac, after all, it still looks fantastic, but im not sure that its the right machine for me. with ipod and itunes being available for windows, i'm starting to consider if maybe i made the wrong choice....

Ouch, sorry to hear that. I suggest giving it some time. Your experience of the OS being "not user friendly" and "clunky" could be much attributed to it being new and unfamiliar to you. Of all things Mac, from design to perforamce, the user friendliness of the OS tops the list. Having to adapt to a new environment, to do things in a little different way than you did before on windows, could give you the illusion of OSX not being user friendly.

Give it time, don't reach any firm conclusions until after you've had the machine a month. If you still don't like it, put if up for sale on ebay, you'll be able to get most of your money back. If you bought from Amazon, they'll take a machine back w/in 30 days even if you're just "unsatisfied with its performance", you'd only be out shipping.

I've had my PM (1.25ghz, 768MB) for 6 months, running 10.2.6. Not a single crash or kernal panic. It did freeze once, but that was due to a glitch in MSN for OSX in which if you accidently open a giant spam message the application freaks out for some reason, perhaps a virus protection feature. I've become more adept and just trashing the spam w/out accidently opening it. Beyond that, absolutely perfect operation, and that's not an exaggeration.

That said, I rarely use Quicktime and am not running Panther, thus our circumstance is a little different. But Quicktime is Apple's baby, give them a call and see if there's a fix.

Another thing to keep in mind. If you shut your machine down, or put it to sleep at night, download something like Macjanitor from version tracker so you can manually run the daily, weekly, and monthly maintenance scripts. There are other apps which do similiar things like Cocktail or Macaroni. I like Macjanitor because it's very simple.

Repair Permissions (Disk Utility) once week as well. I've been very faithful to the easy and simple maintenance which may have much to do with why I've had no problems.

I suggest getting a book, any book, written by David Pogue, that teaches about Panther. I'm sure there's a "Panther, the Missing Manual". He has a wonderful writing style which will make the newness of the Mac OS much more accessible to you. I have his Jaguar Missing Manual and it has been a godsend.

Some might suggest that you do a clean install of the OS. This is said to clear up issues with new machines. I've not done it, but the Pogue books explain how.

No matter what, give it a month before you reach firm conclusions. You've perhaps built up large expectations in your mind which no machine could live up to. After a month, if you still don't like it, sell it on ebay, it will go quickly. One plus of macs is that they keep their value much better than PC's.

Don't worry! Darth Gates will welcome you back with open arms

Good Luck!

[Starry Night]

One more thing, buy 512MB of ram from www.crucial.com. Their prices are a little higher than others, but much lower than Apple's, yet the extra ram will give OSX a performance boost speed wise. Crucial makes really high quality memory, I personally wouldn't buy any other brand (including Apple's itself) except maybe Samsung.....

[nancyboy41]

alright, after a day, and some time, im beginning to enjoy my machine a bit more. i still havent installed panther which i something that i guess should be on my to do list. can anyone tell me how to make the fonts bigger? like with aim and internet explorer, all the words are very small. i can read them but not well. if youd like to IM me, my sn is xhcbowlerx. thanks a lot

[Starry Night]

Originally posted by nancyboy41:
alright, after a day, and some time, im beginning to enjoy my machine a bit more. i still havent installed panther which i something that i guess should be on my to do list. can anyone tell me how to make the fonts bigger? like with aim and internet explorer, all the words are very small. i can read them but not well. if youd like to IM me, my sn is xhcbowlerx. thanks a lot

I'm not at my Mac right now so I can't tell you specificly because I don't quite remember, but it was very easy to make the fonts larger in Explorer. It was something like clicking on preferences from the menu bar and getting a big list of command option icons. There was a "+" and a "-". You drag them both to the IE tool bar. Then, obviously, you click on the "+" to make text larger and the "-" to make it smaller.

To be honest, I rarely use IE because Safari is so much faster. Only use IE for the stray site that doesn't do well in Safari. I suggest you download the latest Safari at apple.com. It gives you a little "a" and a big "A". Click on the big A to make text larger and the little "a" to make it smaller.

Netscape/Mozilla are also good browsers for a backup for Safari.

You also might want to play around with the display calibrator in System Prefences. The advanced options allow you to easily experiment with things like the gamma setting. There's a whole walk through they take you through, it's easy. I found increasing the gamma a bit made text much much easier to read than with the factory settings. You can experiment by setting up several calibration profiles and then switch back and forth between them to find the one you like best. Easy breezy lemon squeezy

Don't forget, when you can, add more ram. Even a 256 stick from crucial should make things more snappy.....

[MrForgetable]

Well, I know this topic is not about me, but I am in the same boat as nancyboy. I mostly just surf, play the occasional online game, a lot of essays and school work, and play the occasional high processorish games. But mostly just go online and chat etc.

I don't really want an iMac, but then the price is 600 less than the PowerMac Dual G4 setup (with 17 inch cinema display) I want.. but then for 100 dollars more I can stick with my not so good LCD and get a Dual 1.8 G5. but then, when am I really going to use all that power?? But the PMs will last longer, but then I can save the money I didn't use to get a new computer sooner... I don't know. Just kinda confused Price isn't much an issue, it's just a mixture of what I want/need/and the value I get.

[Starry Night]

Originally posted by MrForgetable:
Well, I know this topic is not about me, but I am in the same boat as nancyboy. I mostly just surf, play the occasional online game, a lot of essays and school work, and play the occasional high processorish games. But mostly just go online and chat etc.

I don't really want an iMac, but then the price is 600 less than the PowerMac Dual G4 setup (with 17 inch cinema display) I want.. but then for 100 dollars more I can stick with my not so good LCD and get a Dual 1.8 G5. but then, when am I really going to use all that power?? But the PMs will last longer, but then I can save the money I didn't use to get a new computer sooner... I don't know. Just kinda confused Price isn't much an issue, it's just a mixture of what I want/need/and the value I get.

Imho, if the extra power of the G5 isn't going to be meaningful to you (ie. you're a photographer and the speed increase with Photoshop is going to double your productivity), then go with the G4 PM. The G5 is new, there are going to be growing pains. The G4 PM is a proven workhorse that has gone through many many revisions with each revision fixing past problems. The G4 is a very ripe fruit so to speak, quite delicious Unless the speed increase is going to really make a difference for you, let the G5 go through its growing pains for a year or two, then think about getting one.

Don't waste your money on a 17" Apple LCD. The specs are behind the times, it's over priced, and comes with only a one year warranty when the industry standard is 3 years. The 17" Apple Display is not up to the high standards of the cinema displays.

Check out Formac, NEC or Samsung. I have a 17" LCD NEC Multisync 1760V that cost about $400. When I did my comparisons, imho, it was noticeably better than the $700 Apple 17" Display.

In your case, let the G5 ripen awhile, go with the snappy dual G4 PM and a really good 3rd party LCD and enjoy!

[WizOSX]

Originally posted by Starry Night

Check out Formac, NEC or Samsung. I have a 17" LCD NEC Multisync 1760V that cost about $400. When I did my comparisons, imho, it was noticeably better than the $700 Apple 17" Display.

I�ve been using a 17" LCD NEC Multisync 1700V for a couple of years now with various Macs. Its been great. One reason I got it over the Apple monitor was that small text on the NEC is noticeably crisper and easier on the eyes than on any of Apple�s LCDs.