[iDriveX]

So I do Mac Work for Hire when people need me to. I charge $75/hr. and I'll come and install your software for you or teach you how to use .mac, ect. ect. It's not my job but I'll come over after work cause I don't mind making a few extra bucks.

But about 3 months ago, this one fella invited me over to install all this software he had purchased onto his new G5 Tower. I went over there after work and was there until 10:30 PM. About 4 hours worth of work worth about $300. He knew the price and he knew what I did and how long it would take etc. This guy has money too. He had me installing FCP, Adobe CS, Macromedia MX 2004, Office, Quark, etc. All the big stuff. It was crazy! After I told him I was finished he started telling me about how after purchasing all of this, things weren't looking great right now financially and asked him if I could bill him (which I occasionally do for people.) I told him that wouldn't be a problem and promptly sent out a bill the next day. 3 Months, 5 bills, and 2 personal phone calls have gone by now with no payment and he hasn't given me any inkling of when he will be paying me. So here's what I did:

In Mac OS X, most programs are packages, and inside each package is the actual files necessary to run the program. Take for instance, inside the package for Macromedia Dreamweaver MX 2004, there is a file called Dreamweaver. Here's the path for it:

Code:
/Applications/Macromedia Dreamweaver MX 2004/Dreamweaver MX 2004/Contents/MacOS/Dreamweaver

If one were to remove this file, Dreamweaver would not longer function and would have to be reinstalled. So I created a Installer in PackageMaker in the Developer Tools that would replace certain key files inside the programs I installed to render them useless. All the files that ended up getting deleted were replaced with files of the same name, but were text files with the text of "Should have paid me" on the inside.

After I created the package, I titled it "Security Update" and uploaded it to my .mac homepage. I then called him and told him that Apple had issued a Security Update and that a lot of people were having a hard time getting it to show up in their software updater so I put it on my webpage for easy access and that he should update his OS immediately. The guy downloaded the installer and installed it, and now no programs on his computer, short of the programs that are installed with the OS will open. He tried calling me back but I've decided to let him suffer for a bit. He can reinstall his own software.

[nredman]

*LOL* kind of funny...what you did with the packagemaker..also that you charge $75 an hour....thats REALLY funny to me.

[iDriveX]

Originally posted by nredman:
*LOL* kind of funny...what you did with the packagemaker..also that you charge $75 an hour....thats REALLY funny to me.

Well the area that I live in (West Valley, Southern California) you have a ton of rich people, and the macs are getting a good spin now with the iPod and iTunes and stuff and people are just getting sick of their PCs so I do a lot of house calls and charge these Westlake Village/Calabasas elite $75-$100/hr. and they are more than willing to pay it and they call me back. I make about $1000-$1500/mo. in extra money doing this. It's all referral based and I definitely don't go out looking for the work.

[ghost_flash]

You get $75 per hour?

Dude, you got him back but I'm not certain
how I feel about it. I like it, but in a way I
feel you maybe went too far. Did this guy
lose money by not being able to use that
software? He could sue you.

Anyway, you gottem, big one's.

I have heard of placing timers and passwords
for being paid in a timely basis.

[Sealobo]

These people gotta be dumb enough to pay $75 an hr for having someone to do the installtion for them... er...

[DeathToWindows]

Deserved it...

I do basic mac stuff (very similar to you) in the greater Boston area and if the client is not a family friend (most are) I make them sign a payment contract (statement of rate, payment procedure...)

I'd like to see the script code...

[nredman]

Originally posted by iDriveX:
Well the area that I live in (West Valley, Southern California) you have a ton of rich people, and the macs are getting a good spin now with the iPod and iTunes and stuff and people are just getting sick of their PCs so I do a lot of house calls and charge these Westlake Village/Calabasas elite $75-$100/hr. and they are more than willing to pay it and they call me back. I make about $1000-$1500/mo. in extra money doing this. It's all referral based and I definitely don't go out looking for the work.

well i guess if people will pay that much then more power to you.

[gorickey]

That's the coolest story I've read in awhile...rock on man! More power to you...

I to would like a copy of that code/script...

[ghost_flash]

Dude you live with your parents? and 1,000 to 1,500 per month extra is something you need?

Is this what you do, or do you have a full-time
job too? Do your P's make you pay rent????

You were wrong to do what you did, this guy can sue your parents and they could lose their
home and you could go to jail.

[ghost_flash]

duplicate.

[jonasmac]

Originally posted by ghost_flash:
Dude you live with your parents? and 1,000 to 1,500 per month extra is something you need?

I don't know ANYBODY who couldn't use an extra $1000-$1500 per month.

Too bad it was ethically questionable the way you got him to download the file. I don't know what legal implications there could be since you had to lie to have the guy install it.

...that is...if this guy figures it out.

Wish I could charge $75 per hour to install software.

[gorickey]

Originally posted by jonasmac:
Too bad it was ethically questionable the way you got him to download the file.

On the flip side, it was ethically questionable how the guy claims he wants to be billed yet never pays anything months later...

[Severed Hand of Skywalker]

Call him every day till you get your money.

[ghost_flash]

Originally posted by jonasmac:
I don't know ANYBODY who couldn't use an extra $1000-$1500 per month.

Too bad it was ethically questionable the way you got him to download the file. I don't know what legal implications there could be since you had to lie to have the guy install it.

...that is...if this guy figures it out.

Wish I could charge $75 per hour to install software.

He acts like this is his livelyhood is my point.
I have been stiffed before but would rather
get a referal from the person and move-on.

Bad karma dude.

$300 for what? You are overpaid to begin with, and you risk prison by tampering with
his computer software.

Not cool.

[Axo1ot1]

Originally posted by ghost_flash:
Dude you live with your parents? and 1,000 to 1,500 per month extra is something you need?

Is this what you do, or do you have a full-time
job too? Do your P's make you pay rent????

You were wrong to do what you did, this guy can sue your parents and they could lose their
home and you could go to jail.

No. Not everybody is fourteen like you.

[ghost_flash]

Originally posted by Axo1ot1:
No. Not everybody is fourteen like you.

Did you go to his prophile? His web page?
He lives with his parents, and from ths sound
of it is a real sh*t.

Clue for you, I'm not fourteen, and I don't
live with my parents.

[jonasmac]

Originally posted by gorickey:
On the flip side, it was ethically questionable how the guy claims he wants to be billed yet never pays anything months later...

I hear ya, man.
Two wrongs, though, don't make a right.
"What goes around comes around."
"Do unto others..."
etc..

...But I'm sure it makes him feel a little better about not getting his money.

[ghost_flash]

You didn't have a bike stolen recently have
you?

[stevesnj]

Take him to small claims court and go Pro-se. Verbal agreements are binding in some states but you messed up by tampering with his computer. You lost out twice.

[mitchell_pgh]

Not to side with the jack ass that stiffed you on the money... What he did was wrong, but if he had you install the software with the intent to pay you, but then didn't pay, they he is a jerk, cheapscate, etc.

But for you to maliciously damage his computer (even if he does owe you money)... That's just wrong. Although it sucks... he has more of a right to sue you then the other way around.

You can take him to small claims court. He could have the FBI show up at your house (ok, maybe the extreme... but you know what I mean).

[Zoom_zoom]

good work - Only that is, if the script deleted the programs that you installed yourself.




Zooom Zoom

[Sherwin]

Hang on a minute. The guy didn't pay for work done to install software. If he didn't pay, then legally the work hasn't been done (title of goods/service, etc., principle). So if the only apps knobbled were the ones installed and not paid for, there's no case as they couldn't possibly have legally existed on the computer in the first place.

Probably.

Anyway. Screw the guy. What's he gonna do, stand up in court and tell them why the apps were knobbled?

I just hope the OP is charging him the maximum possible interest for late payment.

[CMYKid]

hey, i'm all for stickin' it to people, but ou definitely f'd yo'self on collecting now...

...and SERIOUSLY, lose the animal print bedspread. thats way done...

I believe Trojan Horses fall under the category of computer viruses in the eyes of the law. What you did was distribute a trojan horse.

You could be in deep trouble.

[iDriveX]

Originally posted by Sealobo:
These people gotta be dumb enough to pay $75 an hr for having someone to do the installtion for them... er...

Not really, think about it, if you were filthy rich, didn't like computers, didn't know how to use computers, would you do your own software installations? I guess you could say the same thing about rich people that have butlers "These people gotta be dumb enough to pay for having someone drive them somewhere when they could do it themselves"

[iDriveX]

Originally posted by DeathToWindows:
Deserved it...

I do basic mac stuff (very similar to you) in the greater Boston area and if the client is not a family friend (most are) I make them sign a payment contract (statement of rate, payment procedure...)

I'd like to see the script code...

There is no script code, it's not applescript or shell or anything like that, it's package maker, it's a simple replace one file with another, PackageMaker is very easy to use to automate tasks like this.

[iDriveX]

Originally posted by ghost_flash:
Dude you live with your parents? and 1,000 to 1,500 per month extra is something you need?

Is this what you do, or do you have a full-time
job too? Do your P's make you pay rent????

You were wrong to do what you did, this guy can sue your parents and they could lose their
home and you could go to jail.

Easy turbo,

(1) I do not live with my parents and I have no clue why you would think that.
(2) I've never heard anyone turn down an extra $1000-$1500/mo. I have a disgusting habit of always wanting to buy cool technology and having extra money is always a good thing.
(3) As I said, this is a side job and I have a real job that I work at from about 8:30-6:00 PM.
(4) I don't live with my parents, I have my own place and yes I pay rent at my own place.
(5) This guy can't sue me, or my parents, there was no loss of data, the computer still functions and since he owns all the programs he can reinstall them himself.

[iDriveX]

Originally posted by ghost_flash:
He acts like this is his livelyhood is my point.
I have been stiffed before but would rather
get a referal from the person and move-on.

Bad karma dude.

$300 for what? You are overpaid to begin with, and you risk prison by tampering with
his computer software.

Not cool.

It's not my lively hood as I've pointed out, it's just extra money.

And it's not bad karma. Bad Karma would be erasing his hard drive or doing something bad to him.

If you stole something from a store, the store owner would either go to the police or go to you and make you give it back. The product this person stole from me was my services, I have taken my services back.

He still has his software in the box, intact. I have not messed with his software. I have messed with my installation of the software.

The only point I agree with thus far was that it was unethical the way I got him to install this software, but I didn't feel like filing a collection against this person.

And as far as me being overpaid. Maybe you wouldn't pay me this much, but a lot of people think it's a bargain to have a guy they can call, pay a set amount to, and never have to worry about their computers.

[iDriveX]

As far as some people have mentioned, the only think that was hobbled was the actual programs I installed. NOTHING else was touched. No documents, no nothing, in fact 99% of the programs are still there, all he has to do is still in the discs and reinstall the programs and put in the serial numbers. We're not talking about serious work here. He's a Final Cut Pro guy and all his Final Cut pro work is saved on an external drive or in his documents folder and all his settings were retained, ect. He wasted 4 hours of my life, now he'll waste 4 hours of his life reinstalling.

[ghost_flash]

Originally posted by iDriveX:
It's not my lively hood as I've pointed out, it's just extra money.

And it's not bad karma. Bad Karma would be erasing his hard drive or doing something bad to him.

If you stole something from a store, the store owner would either go to the police or go to you and make you give it back. The product this person stole from me was my services, I have taken my services back.

He still has his software in the box, intact. I have not messed with his software. I have messed with my installation of the software.

The only point I agree with thus far was that it was unethical the way I got him to install this software, but I didn't feel like filing a collection against this person.

And as far as me being overpaid. Maybe you wouldn't pay me this much, but a lot of people think it's a bargain to have a guy they can call, pay a set amount to, and never have to worry about their computers.

Did you cause him to lose money by not being
able to use his software that was installed?
He could argue that, and it would cost you
big time.

By your web site you look like you are
redecorating your room in your P's house.

I agree with you on one hand, but my other
hand is giving you the one-finger-salute.

Lata'

[waxcrash]

Originally posted by iDriveX:
And as far as me being overpaid. Maybe you wouldn't pay me this much, but a lot of people think it's a bargain to have a guy they can call, pay a set amount to, and never have to worry about their computers.

IMHO, you sound like a con-man. You think $75/hr is a bargain to install software?

[Sherwin]

Woah there's a lot of jealousy in this thread. Let's face it, you'd all be charging $75 per hour for the same thing if you could get away with it. Or are you commies or something?

[iDriveX]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by waxcrash:
IMHO, you sound like a con-man. You think $75/hr is a bargain to install software? [/QUOTE

LOL...A Con Man? Do I think it's a bargain? No. Why would I give someone, who I don't know, a bargain on my time? Do I think my time is worth $75/hr to sit in front of a computer and install software? Yeah I do. It's not fun work, they don't want to do it. It's a service, I'm not twisting anyone's arm, you don't want it, you don't ask for it. Are there other guys that will do it cheaper? Sure, take it to CompUSA. Take it to Circuit City. But if you want to sit down next to me, talk to me, watch what I am doing, ask questions and be taught to do this yourself, or maybe you don't want to physically take your computer anywhere, I'll do that. But it's gonna cost your a pretty penny.

[ghost_flash]

Originally posted by Sherwin:
Woah there's a lot of jealousy in this thread. Let's face it, you'd all be charging $75 per hour for the same thing if you could get away with it. Or are you commies or something?

No jealosy here, I just don't 'f' my client's computers up when I don't get paid. That's childish and maliscious.

You think what he did was ok?
I could care less how much money he makes.
Psychologists make up to $200 per hour to
just listen.

I was warning him that he could be held
liable for damages and worse.

[iDriveX]

Originally posted by Sherwin:
Woah there's a lot of jealousy in this thread. Let's face it, you'd all be charging $75 per hour for the same thing if you could get away with it. Or are you commies or something?

That's exactly what I was thinking. This is capitalism at it's best here people. I have a service, it's $75/hr. Want it? Great. Pay me. Don't want it? Looks like I will either have to lower my rates, or I will have to discontinue my service all together and move on. That's how business is done.

[ghost_flash]

Originally posted by iDriveX:
That's exactly what I was thinking. This is capitalism at it's best here people. I have a service, it's $75/hr. Want it? Great. Pay me. Don't want it? Looks like I will either have to lower my rates, or I will have to discontinue my service all together and move on. That's how business is done.

You sure know how to win friends don't you?
Raise your rates to $120/hour, I could care less.

If you get it, then that is cool, but don't go
screwing with people's computers when you
don't get paid. That's not cool, and that is
my only problem, because that is not how
'business is done'.

[Sherwin]

Originally posted by ghost_flash:
No jealosy here, I just don't 'f' my client's computers up when I don't get paid. That's childish and maliscious.

Nope. It's withholding services retrospectively.

Originally posted by ghost_flash:
You think what he did was ok?

Yep.
And I think the way it was done was a classic.

Originally posted by ghost_flash:
I was warning him that he could be held
liable for damages and worse.

Is it possible to be held liable for damages to your own work? IMO, until the work has been paid for then that particular install of the software belongs to the vendor, not the client, regardless of which computer it's on.

In what way is this any different from XP ceasing to function if you don't register it within a certain time frame? Or certain other anti-piracy measures in the software industry?

[shabbasuraj]

i am with iDrive on this one...

more power to ya bro...

I think it was funny as hell...

only if you could somehow get the guy's iSight (if he had one) to turn on, when he launched tha app. and to record and to send you the video...

PRICELESS...

perhaps not...

karma all the way...

[quandarry]

this whole thing sounds fishy to me...anyone who has the ability to use all that software you mentioned is not 'installer handicapped'

hell i'm a damn mushroom for brains guy and can do all that sh!t.

even the nobs in hollywood who keep hiring ben afleck would have a hard time with this story.

place suspicious looking guy here---->

[iDriveX]

Originally posted by quandarry:
this whole thing sounds fishy to me...anyone who has the ability to use all that software you mentioned is not 'installer handicapped'

hell i'm a damn mushroom for brains guy and can do all that sh!t.

even the nobs in hollywood who keep hiring ben afleck would have a hard time with this story.

place suspicious looking guy here---->

It's not that he's "installer handicapped", it's that he's filthy rich and doesn't want to install his own software. It was a four hour install job. It I was filthy rich, I wouldn't sit in front of a computer for four hours, I'd be out at a swanky restaurant with a hot chick and I'd hire some computer kid to install my software. Guys who hire drivers for their cars aren't "Driving Handicapped", they have better things to be doing while someone is driving them.

[shabbasuraj]

hmmm..

never thought of it that way..

but if the story is real or not...

i still find it funny...

maybe these rich people are really lazy...

i dunno...

I have met a few people who know nothing about OS's and computer hardware, but can use Mathematica like friggin wizards...

[Sherwin]

Originally posted by shabbasuraj:
maybe these rich people are really lazy...

Time to lower the tone.

I can clean my own house. But I'd much rather employ a hottie in a French maid outfit to do it for me.

For all we know, the guy could have just been getting his jollies from having an energetic young computer geek (sorry iDriveX - you know what I mean) in his house for four hours. We just don't know. I mean, we are talking California.

[waxcrash]

Originally posted by quandarry:
this whole thing sounds fishy to me...anyone who has the ability to use all that software you mentioned is not 'installer handicapped'

hell i'm a damn mushroom for brains guy and can do all that sh!t.

even the nobs in hollywood who keep hiring ben afleck would have a hard time with this story.

place suspicious looking guy here---->

Same here. Red flags went off when I read the story. Telling the guy to go to your .Mac home page to download an Apple update that really is a trojan. That's deception and not cool. If you really wanted to get paid, there are civil methods. Either the story is BS (which I believe) or iDriveX is a shady character.

On another note, iDriveX - you really don't care what people think of your character? I remember reading about the iBook you painted black and sold on eBay and you had to take back and give the buyer their money back because it was busted and wouldn't close.

Then you tried to sell off the iBook here on MacNN in the marketplace. Some MacNN member bought it, then realized the problems plus the awful paint job and tried to resolve the issues with you, but you wouldn't do anything. The buyer had to start a thread about your bad business practices just to get some resolution.

You sound like an honest business man.

[quandarry]

Originally posted by iDriveX:
It's not that he's "installer handicapped", it's that he's filthy rich and doesn't want to install his own software. It was a four hour install job. It I was filthy rich, I wouldn't sit in front of a computer for four hours, I'd be out at a swanky restaurant with a hot chick and I'd hire some computer kid to install my software. Guys who hire drivers for their cars aren't "Driving Handicapped", they have better things to be doing while someone is driving them.

why would a filthy rich guy have these programs on HIS computer? these are programs for the working slobs...he wouldn't spend hours working in these programs when he can pay other people too...

and if he is filthy rich why would you buy his story about being broke after spending a few bucks (to him) on these programs?

place confused guy here---->

[ghost_flash]

Originally posted by quandarry:
why would a filthy rich guy have these programs on HIS computer? these are programs for the working slobs...he wouldn't spend hours working in these programs when he can pay other people too...

and if he is filthy rich why would you buy his story about being broke after spending a few bucks (to him) on these programs?

place confused guy here---->

What, are you jealous or something?



This thread is

[dillerX]

[iDriveX]

Originally posted by quandarry:
why would a filthy rich guy have these programs on HIS computer? these are programs for the working slobs...he wouldn't spend hours working in these programs when he can pay other people too...

and if he is filthy rich why would you buy his story about being broke after spending a few bucks (to him) on these programs?

place confused guy here---->

My only guess is that rich guys like to have fun with video cameras to? Maybe it's his hobby? Who knows? Maybe that's how he gets rich?

Oh and I didn't buy his story about being broke, I was pissed when I left the place cause I knew at that point that I wasn't going to get the money, but I decided to give him the benefit of the doubt and wait to see if he would pay.

[Kilbey]

I'm with you on this one iDriveX. I had a friend who floated my name to graphics and sign shops for Macintosh work. They'd call and ask how much I charged and I said $50 minimum, and $50 an hour. They would say "thanks" and hang up.

I'd then ask my friend why I wasn't getting any work from these guys and he asked me how much I was charging and I told him. His exact words, "You price is too low, they probably don't think you know much or don't think they'll get much for their money, charge more".

So the next time some place called I stated "$150 minimum, $120 per hour". The response: "How fast can you get here."

It's all about perceived value. They think if it is cheap it is not worth it, but if it costs a lot, then they are getting a lot for their money.

[OwlBoy]

Originally posted by Kilbey:
I'm with you on this one iDriveX. I had a friend who floated my name to graphics and sign shops for Macintosh work. They'd call and ask how much I charged and I said $50 minimum, and $50 an hour. They would say "thanks" and hang up.

I'd then ask my friend why I wasn't getting any work from these guys and he asked me how much I was charging and I told him. His exact words, "You price is too low, they probably don't think you know much or don't think they'll get much for their money, charge more".

So the next time some place called I stated "$150 minimum, $120 per hour". The response: "How fast can you get here."

It's all about perceived value. They think if it is cheap it is not worth it, but if it costs a lot, then they are getting a lot for their money.

Interesting...

-Owl

[ghost_flash]

Originally posted by Kilbey:
I'm with you on this one iDriveX. I had a friend who floated my name to graphics and sign shops for Macintosh work. They'd call and ask how much I charged and I said $50 minimum, and $50 an hour. They would say "thanks" and hang up.

I'd then ask my friend why I wasn't getting any work from these guys and he asked me how much I was charging and I told him. His exact words, "You price is too low, they probably don't think you know much or don't think they'll get much for their money, charge more".

So the next time some place called I stated "$150 minimum, $120 per hour". The response: "How fast can you get here."

It's all about perceived value. They think if it is cheap it is not worth it, but if it costs a lot, then they are getting a lot for their money.

I'm with him too, up to the point where he
became a real **** and did the wrong thing.

Customers that stiff are reall ****ers.
He should raise his rates, and I hope he gets
it, but he missed an opportunity to give this
guy a freebie! and then raise his rates and
get it up front next time. You screwed the
pooch on this one dude.

There are personal trainers making 1400/hr
in California.