[Big Mac]

This story isn't really news to those of us who know the contours of the conflict (such acts have been going on for years), but I thought it is important to post nonetheless. If Jews ever desecrated a single Islamic holy site, it would make worldwide headlines and spark a new international jihad. But no one seems to care about the desecration and even destruction of ancient Jewish holy sites that long predate Islam. How can anyone expect Israel to make "peace" with such evil?

Arabs Desecrate Grave of Biblical Prime Minister Joshua - Inside Israel - Israel News - Arutz Sheva

by Ezra HaLevi

(IsraelNN.com) Jewish worshippers Tuesday were stunned to find Arabs had desecrated the graves of the Biblical Joshua, Caleb and Nun (Joshua’s father).

Joshua served as the Jewish Nation's Prime Minister from the year 2488 until 2516 on the Hebrew calendar (1272 BCE - 1300 BCE).

Members of the One Shechem organization that organizes visits to the graves arrived in the village of Timnat (Kifl) Haress, near Ariel in Samaria, to prepare for a special prayer gathering, discovered that Arab vandals had desecrated the village’s Jewish tombs. The tombs of Yehoshua (Joshua) ben Nun, Nun, and Calev (Caleb) ben Yefuneh were covered with garbage and feces – both human and animal, and anti-Semitic and Nazi slogans and symbols had been painted in the area.

Nevertheless, worshippers gathered at the tombs Tuesday night for special prayers on the tenth of Tevet, the day Kaddish and other prayers are recited for those whose date of death is unknown, such as Calev ben Yefuneh. Organizers had cleaned up the damage and attendees reported a positive experience.

The prayers were also to mark the end of the 30-day increased-stricture mourning period for murdered Jewish father Ido Zoldan of Kedumim, by a Palestinian Authority police officer.

Organizers reported that a wide array of Jews – hareidi, national religious and traditional – took part in the visit and prayers. They also praised the cooperation of security forces, particularly the Efraim Division of the IDF.

The One Shechem organization issued a call to the public to do everything in their power to preserve the holy sites in Samaria, including Joseph’s Tomb in Shechem and to fight for the right of Jews to visit and worship there freely.

Click here for an Arutz-7 Exclusive Photo Essay of a midnight visit to the graves of Joshua, Calev and Nun.

[Chongo]

Ah, the religion of "peace" at it's finest.

[peeb]

Sounds like "Assholes Desecrate Graves" would be a better title. These kinds of people exist in every culture, making judgements about 'Arabs', and extending that judgement to a religion is just more racism.

[Big Mac]

Except the Arabs have a tradition of doing such things - of going into ancient Jewish cemeteries and digging up grave stones to use for pavement and as latrines. It is part of Islamic culture to destroy and then often misappropriate as Islamic the property of other religions.

[Dakar the Fourth]

These are probably the same type of people that called for the head of that scandinavian cartoonist.

[lpkmckenna]

Prime Minister?

BTW, while I deplore the desecration of holy sites, I hope everybody remembers that Joshua was one of the most bloodthirsty theocrats ever.

[Chuckit]

Originally Posted by Big Mac 

Except the Arabs have a tradition of doing such things - of going into ancient Jewish cemeteries and digging up grave stones to use for pavement and as latrines. It is part of Islamic culture to destroy and then often misappropriate as Islamic the property of other religions.

They both destroy something and steal it? How does that work?

[peeb]

Originally Posted by Big Mac 

Except the Arabs have a tradition of doing such things - of going into ancient Jewish cemeteries and digging up grave stones to use for pavement and as latrines. It is part of Islamic culture to destroy and then often misappropriate as Islamic the property of other religions.

Lest the finer points be lost to your hate-speech, being Islamic is not the same thing as being Arabic. Also, 'Arabs' have no such tradition. This is not to deny that such things may have happened, but that you cannot make the racist jump from 'some people do something bad --> those people have some racial or religious characteristic --> all members of those groups do those bad things'.

[Big Mac]

Originally Posted by Chuckit 

They both destroy something and steal it? How does that work?

See the link above concerning the Tomb of Joseph for such an example. When Israel pulled out, they destroyed the ancient shul and then started erecting a mosque on top of it. Throughout Israel you see mosques built on other land where ancient shuls stood. In East Jerusalem you see houses Arabs currently occupy with spaces where Jewish markers used to be because they were formerly Jewish houses.

[OldManMac]

Originally Posted by Chongo 

Ah, the religion of "peace" at it's finest.

Ah, the assumptions of those who need a scapegoat, and who conveniently forget history.

[olePigeon]

Originally Posted by Chuckit 

They both destroy something and steal it? How does that work?

By Big Mac's reasoning, Christians have a tradition of murdering civilians by blowing up abortion clinics.

[Big Mac]

There is no popular Christian support for the bombing of abortion clinics. There is overwhelming popular support among the Arabs for attacks against Jews and Jewish property. Groups pledged to Israel's destruction are in charge of the Arabs there and always have been, both Fatah and Hamas. Besides that, hatred of the Jew runs rampant throughout the Arab world. Therefore, the claim that my comments are racist holds absolutely no water.

[peeb]

Au contraire. Care to justify your racist hate-screed with some evidence?

[Big Mac]

All the evidence in the world would fail to convince a terror-apologist like you, peeb.

[peeb]

1. You have not presented any evidence.
2. I specifically did not make any excuse for the behaviors you described.

Try again.

[keymaker]

yeah, I mean there's a lot of that sort of thing going on in the region... desecration, trespass, murder, genocide, humiliation... I'll never forget that US soldier who was disciplined for not using the latrine at Abu Ghraib when he accidentally urinated on that Arab he didn't realise was there reading the Koran on the other side of an air vent, accidentally soiling the said Arab and Koran because of a pure freak of nature which occurred when the wind blew the urine through the said air vent.

keymaker

[lpkmckenna]

Originally Posted by Big Mac 

All the evidence in the world would fail to convince an terror-apologist like you, peeb.

Gosh, that's the most offensive name-calling I've ever encountered here. Shame.

[goMac]

Originally Posted by Big Mac 

Except the Arabs have a tradition of doing such things - of going into ancient Jewish cemeteries and digging up grave stones to use for pavement and as latrines. It is part of Islamic culture to destroy and then often misappropriate as Islamic the property of other religions.

I know you're not Christian, so it's not nearly as much of a counterpoint, but Christians have a history of doing the same sorts of things.

[OldManMac]

Originally Posted by goMac 

I know you're not Christian, so it's not nearly as much of a counterpoint, but Christians have a history of doing the same sorts of things.

You have to remember, however, that it's much easier to generalize and extrapolate what you want to believe to an entire group that you dislike, because of the actions of a few.

[olePigeon]

Originally Posted by peeb 

1. You have not presented any evidence.
2. I specifically did not make any excuse for the behaviors you described.

Try again.

I'm convinced he doesn't know what that word means.

[Big Mac]

Presenting evidence on demand here is essentially futile because no matter what is shown, many of you are bent on denying the truth. You can look up the evidence for yourself if you're really interested.

[peeb]

What you mean is that you have no evidence to justify your racist prejudice, and would rather engage in name-calling and mud slinging than any sort of serious discussion.

[Chongo]

Taliban Tears Distory Down Ancient Buddha Statues.
Hagia Sophia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[peeb]

Chongo - have you ever come across the term "inductive reasoning"? It seems to be the basis of your racism.

[Chongo]

Originally Posted by peeb 

1. You have not presented any evidence.
2. I specifically did not make any excuse for the behaviors you described.

Try again.

Originally Posted by peeb 

What you mean is that you have no evidence to justify your racist prejudice, and would rather engage in name-calling and mud slinging than any sort of serious discussion.

Originally Posted by peeb 

Chongo - have you ever come across the term "inductive reasoning"? It seems to be the basis of your racism.

Originally Posted by Chongo 

Taliban Tears Distory Down Ancient Buddha Statues.
Hagia Sophia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Just giving then examples you requested. How is that "racist" The Taliban are Pashtuns , not Arabs.

[peeb]

Please read posts before replying to them. I did not request 'examples', I requested 'evidence' for claims like "There is overwhelming popular support among the Arabs for attacks against Jews and Jewish property". While BigMac seems entirely confused about the difference between Muslims and Arabs, at least you have those basic facts correct. Your racism stems from your logically flawed leap from an example of a behavior, to an assumption that that is a characteristic of a racial or religious group.

You are using inductive reasoning. "The KKK is white. The KKK is racist. Therefore whites are racist." That is why you come up with the logical errors that you do, and why you humiliate yourself so frequently.

[macintologist]

So don't travel to Arab countries. Boycott Arab products. Vote against politicians who cozy up to Arabs.

Problem solved.

Just please don't ask me to pay taxes to fund a war that invades Arab countries.

kthx

[Chongo]

YouTube - Destruction of the Buddha
The support is among the leaders, and that is what is most important, and it's not just attacking Jews and Jewish property, but anything that is "offensive," and that is used to justify those acts.

from the PLO charter

Article 15:

The liberation of Palestine, from an Arab viewpoint, is a national (qawmi) duty and it attempts to repel the Zionist and imperialist aggression against the Arab homeland, and aims at the elimination of Zionism in Palestine. Absolute responsibility for this falls upon the Arab nation - peoples and governments - with the Arab people of Palestine in the vanguard. Accordingly, the Arab nation must mobilize all its military, human, moral, and spiritual capabilities to participate actively with the Palestinian people in the liberation of Palestine. It must, particularly in the phase of the armed Palestinian revolution, offer and furnish the Palestinian people with all possible help, and material and human support, and make available to them the means and opportunities that will enable them to continue to carry out their leading role in the armed revolution, until they liberate their homeland.

By Brigitte Gabriel
Amazon Online Reader : Because They Hate: A Survivor of Islamic Terror Warns America

[peeb]

1. Nothing in what you quote talks about Jews in the abstract, just the elimination of Zionism in Palestine (not that I necessarily support that, it just isn't what you seem to be saying it is).

2. Again, you have not looked up what 'inductive reasoning' is. Back to school for you, I'm afraid.

[hyteckit]

Arabs buying up our financial institutions and tech companies. Citigroup and AMD.

Republicans wanted to let Arab buy and run our ports too.

Thanks Pres. Bush for making our US companies so cheap for the Arabs to buy.

[Shaddim]

Originally Posted by lpkmckenna 

Gosh, that's the most offensive name-calling I've ever encountered here. Shame.

Pfftt, I've been called worse, by the scientists and liberals around here, several times in the last month.

Lest anyone forget, Muslims are the ones claiming unfair and indecent treatment at the hands of Jews, they just don't have traction on these issues anymore, do they?

I do agree with macintologist though, we should have never gotten into a ground war with Iraq or any other ME country, we should have just dropped FAE on Islamic centers until nothing moved.

[Taliesin]

Originally Posted by Big Mac 

Except the Arabs have a tradition of doing such things - of going into ancient Jewish cemeteries and digging up grave stones to use for pavement and as latrines. It is part of Islamic culture to destroy and then often misappropriate as Islamic the property of other religions.

What tradition? I've read the link you posted, and apart from the desecration happening under Jordan's control of East-Jerusalem, there was nothing mentioned beyond it. Quite to the contrary, the article mentions clearly that prior to Jordan's vandalic act, the cemetery was in use for centuries.
That means centuries under ottomanic control, or under syrian control or... what does that tell you?

The article is also mentioning that arabs allowed jews to return to Jerusalem, after they conquered it from the persians, and it mentions that when the crusaders conquered Jerusalem, they burned all the jews of the town in their synagogues.

So why are you hammering on arabs while it's clear that most and worst of the violence against jews have been committed by non-arabs?

I condemn that Jordan destroyed a centuries old jewish cemetery.

But what should be equally condemned by yourself is that Israel destroyed hundreds of islamic cemetries inside Israel since its founding in modern times, not only that but also a long list of christian churches and biblical villages were razed down by Israel. Strange enough they existed during arabic and ottomanic control.

Then there is the problem that jews desecrated a muslim cemetery in the Westbank:
Annie's letters: Jews desecrate graves in West Bank

And jews desecrated jewish graves in Israel, in order to unite the israeli people against the arab states:
Two Jews Are Said to Admit Desecrating Graves in Israel - New York Times

The same jews did it also in France for the same motives:
Israeli Is Given 3 Years For Desecrating Graves - New York Times

...

Using your biased and overgeneralising perception, I would have to come to the conclusion that jews like to destroy and desecrate graves and cemeteries, even much more so, if they happen to be non-jewish ones.

Taliesin

[dcmacdaddy]

Originally Posted by Shaddim 

I do agree with macintologist though, we should have never gotten into a ground war with Iraq or any other ME country, we should have just dropped FAE on Islamic centers until nothing moved.

No, we should have never gotten involved in the Middle East at all, war or not. If there is intra-regional conflict going on in the Middle East, let the regional countries sort out it for themselves. We shouldn't be involved as it's not our problem. Let the Middle East countries fight amongst themselves until such time as they see fit to make peace with one another.

[Chongo]

Originally Posted by hyteckit 

Arabs buying up our financial institutions and tech companies. Citigroup and AMD.

Republicans wanted to let Arab buy and run our ports too.

Thanks Pres. Bush for making our US companies so cheap for the Arabs to buy.

Now, now, you don't peeb to accuse you of inductive reasong.

[peeb]

Originally Posted by Shaddim 

we should have just dropped FAE on Islamic centers until nothing moved.

Is this a joke? Do you think there is something funny about genocidal war crimes?

[peeb]

Originally Posted by Chongo 

Now, now, you don't peeb to accuse you of inductive reasong.

The mistake you keep making is "inductive reasoning", looks like you still need to look it up.

[Chongo]

Originally Posted by peeb 

The mistake you keep making is "inductive reasoning", looks like you still need to look it up.

Inductive reasoning - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[Shaddim]

Originally Posted by dcmacdaddy 

No, we should have never gotten involved in the Middle East at all, war or not. If there is intra-regional conflict going on in the Middle East, let the regional countries sort out it for themselves. We shouldn't be involved as it's not our problem. Let the Middle East countries fight amongst themselves until such time as they see fit to make peace with one another.

It's been getting out of hand for too long now, we should have taken an aggressive stance long before this. As soon as the terror attacks started we should have been hammering Islamic extremist strongholds, and kept at them until there was nothing left.

Our hesitation galvanized them and has made the job >10x harder.

[Big Mac]

Yup.

To add to the ever growing insult, Hamas gets to broadcast from the Temple Mount this week:

Israel Gov't, Police Stand by as Hamas Broadcasts from Temple Mt - Jewish World - Israel News - Arutz Sheva

[peeb]

Originally Posted by Chongo 

Inductive reasoning - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Great - you found it, and figured out how to spell it. Now you need to read it, understand it, and stop making the same mistakes again and again! Good progress so far!

[ShortcutToMoncton]

Originally Posted by Big Mac 

Yup.

To add to the ever growing insult, Hamas gets to broadcast from the Temple Mount this week:

You didn't respond to Taliesin's post on Jewish people desecrating graves. Care to give an opinion on how these situations are different?

greg

[peeb]

Nope - that doesn't fit his reality filter.

[dcmacdaddy]

Originally Posted by Shaddim 

It's been getting out of hand for too long now, we should have taken an aggressive stance long before this. As soon as the terror attacks started we should have been hammering Islamic extremist strongholds, and kept at them until there was nothing left.

Our hesitation galvanized them and has made the job >10x harder.

Again, it's not our problem what countries are fighting one another in the Middle East. It's not up to the US to "hammer [sic] Islamic extremist strongholds" there. Let those countries in the Middle East who want to fight one another do so and leave the US out of it.

As far as taking care of the "Islamic extremists" that attacked us on 9/11, they are from Afghanistan and NOT the Middle East--Afghanistan is considered to be more south or central asian than middle eastern in terms of linguistic and cultural similarities. And had we stayed in Afghanistan and destroyed the Taliban there--like carpet-bombing the Northwest Frontier province where they had all their hidden bases--they would be all gone by now. But instead, we had to invade Iraq because they were somehow a bigger threat?!?

Of course, if we did want to go after the biggest supporter of Islamic extremism/fundamentalism/terrorism in the Middle East, that would be Saudi Arabia. All the other terrorist groups in the Middle East can be traced back to support and/or funding from the Wahhabist leaders in Saudi Arabia. Although, I don't think even going after Saudi Arabia would be worth losing American lives. The US shouldn't be in the Middle East at all, for any reason.

[peeb]

At last, some common sense, informed by facts.

[TETENAL]

Originally Posted by dcmacdaddy 

Let those countries in the Middle East who want to fight one another do so and leave the US out of it.

For a country that can completely separate itself from the Middle East that is a good strategy. For a liberal country that does business with this region it's not possible.

But instead, we had to invade Iraq because they were somehow a bigger threat?!?

That's one of the biggest foreign policy blunders of the USA. Ever.

Of course, if we did want to go after the biggest supporter of Islamic extremism/fundamentalism/terrorism in the Middle East, that would be Saudi Arabia.

And Pakistan.

The US shouldn't be in the Middle East at all, for any reason.

The USA need the natural resources of that region and they want that money to be reinvested in their own country. As long as they declare anybody who wants to reduce their dependance on oil as an ecological nutjob, I see no hope for improvement.

[Shaddim]

Originally Posted by dcmacdaddy 

Again, it's not our problem what countries are fighting one another in the Middle East. It's not up to the US to "hammer [sic] Islamic extremist strongholds" there. Let those countries in the Middle East who want to fight one another do so and leave the US out of it.

As far as taking care of the "Islamic extremists" that attacked us on 9/11, they are from Afghanistan and NOT the Middle East--Afghanistan is considered to be more south or central asian than middle eastern in terms of linguistic and cultural similarities. And had we stayed in Afghanistan and destroyed the Taliban there--like carpet-bombing the Northwest Frontier province where they had all their hidden bases--they would be all gone by now. But instead, we had to invade Iraq because they were somehow a bigger threat?!?

Of course, if we did want to go after the biggest supporter of Islamic extremism/fundamentalism/terrorism in the Middle East, that would be Saudi Arabia. All the other terrorist groups in the Middle East can be traced back to support and/or funding from the Wahhabist leaders in Saudi Arabia. Although, I don't think even going after Saudi Arabia would be worth losing American lives. The US shouldn't be in the Middle East at all, for any reason.

I'm talking long before 9/11, the WTC attack happened due to weakness. We should have been stomping hard on the threat long before then. I never agreed with the attacks on Iraq, ever. There were much better targets to hit before we ever got around to Saddam.

If we can't change our dependency on oil we need to go in and obliterate every strong Islamic terrorist position, without further hesitation or restraint. It's much like facing a big dog, you show fear and the risk of getting hurt increases dramatically.

[peeb]

LOL. So who do you want to bomb? I love this idea that we can solve global problems by increasing the number of foreign countries we bomb! Good luck with that - it worked out really well in Vietnam!

[dcmacdaddy]

Originally Posted by Shaddim 

I'm talking long before 9/11, the WTC attack happened due to weakness. We should have been stomping hard on the threat long before then. I never agreed with the attacks on Iraq, ever. There were much better targets to hit before we ever got around to Saddam.

If we can't change our dependency on oil we need to go in and obliterate every strong Islamic terrorist position, without further hesitation or restraint. It's much like facing a big dog, you show fear and the risk of getting hurt increases dramatically.

What kind of weakness led to the WTC attacks? Not being more aggressive militarily? Who should we have been attacking and for what reasons? Attacking Islamic radicals simply because they are Islamic radicals? What about all the other radicalists in the world who are attacking groups they don't like? Should we be attacking/bombing them?

Please explain the logic behind your arguments about attacking Islamic radicals? What logical arguments lead you to the conclusions that "As soon as the terror attacks started we should have been hammering Islamic extremist strongholds, and kept at them until there was nothing left."

Are you talking about the first WTC attack? or the USS Cole attack? or what about Khobar Towers? or the Marine barracks in Lebanon? Your statements seems to imply that if we had responded more aggressively to one of these attacks there would have been no 9/11 attack. So, please explain when we should have responded more forcefully to a previous attack.

[Shaddim]

That's quite a list of terrorist attacks, and I believe you answered your own questions.

[peeb]

Erm, no. Try reading the post before responding to it.
"Please explain the logic behind your arguments about attacking Islamic radicals? What logical arguments lead you to the conclusions that "As soon as the terror attacks started we should have been hammering Islamic extremist strongholds, and kept at them until there was nothing left."