Welcome to the MacNN Forums.

The Godfather · Apr 3, 2010, 12:55 PM

Report: Apple purchases another processor design house

Why would the article suggest the end of x86 products?

Art Vandelay · Apr 3, 2010, 01:09 PM

It doesn't suggest the end of x86 products.

it's a clear sign that Cupertino has really big plans for ARM and doesn't see a future for x86 outside of its desktops and laptops

analogue SPRINKLES · Apr 3, 2010, 01:21 PM

Well lets see... the hottest portable products on the market right now iPad/iPhone/iPod all don't use x86.
Netbooks use slow assed Atom CPU's.

I'm guessing that's why.

imitchellg5 · Apr 3, 2010, 01:24 PM

Atom Pine Trail CPUs are faster than what Apple puts in the MacBook Air in real world tests...

analogue SPRINKLES · Apr 3, 2010, 01:50 PM

Originally Posted by imitchellg5

Atom Pine Trail CPUs are faster than what Apple puts in the MacBook Air in real world tests...

Guess that's why it is in such high use in so many real world products and everybody raves about how they can hardly play a HD video. I'm willing to bet the MBA is also apples least selling laptop.

imitchellg5 · Apr 3, 2010, 02:01 PM

Hmm. You must be thinking of a different Pine Trail, because what I've used (Toshiba mini NB305) can play 1080p YouTube clips just fine.

analogue SPRINKLES · Apr 3, 2010, 02:07 PM

Originally Posted by imitchellg5

Hmm. You must be thinking of a different Pine Trail, because what I've used (Toshiba mini NB305) can play 1080p YouTube clips just fine.

Ya I must be.

"it's fine for playing back standard-def videos and streaming YouTube and Hulu videos, but anything high-def makes it uncomfortable and it starts stuttering."

Toshiba Mini NB305 review -- Engadget

"The 10.1-inch glossy LED-backlit screen on the Mini NB305-N410 has a 1,024x600-pixel native resolution. Though this lower-than-HD-resolution screen is common"

http://reviews.cnet.com/laptops/tosh...-33948073.html

"But the Atom 450 processor disappoint the serious multitasking and online video ads surgery. As another option, play downloaded video is well supported by the processor."

http://thinklaptops.net/2010/03/tosh...n410bn-review/

" Video playback is pretty good if you're viewing at standard definition and not at full screen, but the Atom N450 processor lacks the power to deliver high-definition, full-screen video. A standard-definition episode of House on Hulu in flew by without problems, but when I switched to full screen or high def, I immediately encountered significant stuttering. If you're looking for a netbook that can play full-screen Flash video, this is not the model for you."

http://www.pcworld.com/reviews/produ...nb305n310.html

imitchellg5 · Apr 3, 2010, 02:09 PM

They had 1 Gb of RAM and multiple apps open... I had 2 Gb and only Chrome open.

mduell · Apr 3, 2010, 03:02 PM

The last guys they bought managed to warm over a year or so old core, perhaps this time they'll go for something more aggressive?

analogue SPRINKLES · Apr 3, 2010, 03:08 PM

Originally Posted by imitchellg5

They had 1 Gb of RAM and multiple apps open... I had 2 Gb and only Chrome open.

Guess that's the secret then. Make sure you got tons of RAM in your low end netbook and only use 1 app at once.

Ya, wonder why the guy though x86 might be in trouble.

imitchellg5 · Apr 3, 2010, 03:20 PM

2 Gb certainly isn't a ton of RAM.

x86 isn't in trouble at all. It just isn't the platform that Apple is choosing to use for mobile devices, which isn't surprising if you ask me. Apple has a lot of money to spend to create and buy what they want to use.

OreoCookie · Apr 3, 2010, 04:37 PM

Originally Posted by Art Vandelay

It doesn't suggest the end of x86 products.

Exactly: outside of laptops and desktops means in the iPod, iPad and iPhone. All of these products already use ARM chips and Apple's interest in another ARM specialist is hardly surprising given the fact it apparently intends to do a lot more in-house design (the A4 seems to be the beginning of a larger effort).

lpkmckenna · Apr 3, 2010, 06:30 PM

Don't forget AppleTV, TimeCapsule, AirPort Extreme and Express.

BTW, those netbooks that can play HD video are probably only capable because the GPU has a hardware decoder for H264 and VC1. Play a vid with an odd codec and it will lag.

OreoCookie · Apr 3, 2010, 08:17 PM

To my knowledge, the AppleTV still uses an Intel cpu -- and it's the only Apple device I can imagine being transitioned from Intel to ARM cpus. I totally forgot about that, thanks for reminding me.

I'm fairly certain the Airport base stations use ARM cpus.

Salty · Apr 3, 2010, 09:09 PM

Why would Apple want another chip company? Probably because they want to ensure that they can either go with whatever is the best the market has or improve it but not have to let anyone else play in their sand box.

Spheric Harlot · Apr 4, 2010, 05:01 AM

Wait.

Apple next big platform is based on an in-house ARM design, and now they buy out (or at least pull a bunch of employees from) a company whose main expertise is in making ARM chip designs stupid fast.

Why is this confusing?

The Godfather · Apr 4, 2010, 09:02 AM

Is this admission of wrongness? Apple should have bought Intrinsity rather than PASemi.

The Godfather · Apr 4, 2010, 09:20 AM

Originally Posted by Art Vandelay

It doesn't suggest the end of x86 products.

Whoops. I misread that one in the worst way possible.

The Godfather · Apr 4, 2010, 09:41 AM

I don't get this joke:

Report: Apple purchases another processor design house

Jobs: What do you mean "P.A. Semi doesn't know anything about ARM"?!?!?

Cook: I'll get the che-

Jobs: Yes go get the checkbook

What does the checkbook have to do with anything?

Simon · Apr 4, 2010, 09:47 AM

As in getting the checkbook so they can buy another company that actually knows about ARM.

lpkmckenna · Apr 4, 2010, 10:13 AM

Originally Posted by The Godfather

Is this admission of wrongness? Apple should have bought Intrinsity rather than PASemi.

Apple wanted the engineers, who are just as capable of designing ARM just as well as PowerPC.

analogue SPRINKLES · Apr 4, 2010, 12:14 PM

Originally Posted by imitchellg5

2 Gb certainly isn't a ton of RAM.

It sure as hell is if you are buying a cheap assed notebook to begin with. On top of that it seems that out of the box it is incapable of playing an HD movie (even on youtube) unless you soup it up and baby the OS.

This is really the average netbook user to you? I would have pictured non-techie family member with no idea of RAM or upgrades taking it out of the box and seeing it does a lousy job playing videos and lovin it?

mduell · Apr 4, 2010, 12:17 PM

2 Gb = 256MB

imitchellg5 · Apr 4, 2010, 12:22 PM

Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES

It sure as hell is if you are buying a cheap assed notebook to begin with. On top of that it seems that out of the box it is incapable of playing an HD movie (even on youtube) unless you soup it up and baby the OS.

This is really the average netbook user to you? I would have pictured non-techie family member with no idea of RAM or upgrades taking it out of the box and seeing it does a lousy job playing videos and lovin it?

I would see a "non-techie" family avoiding netbooks in the first place and buying a cheap 15" notebook which probably will come with 4Gb of RAM anyway.

My point is that the Atom line isn't as weak as you make it out to be (but you hate anything without an Apple logo anyway, so I'm not sure why I'm arguing).

Big Mac · Apr 8, 2010, 01:47 AM

Apple has a tons of cash burning a hole in its corporate coffers.

OreoCookie · Apr 8, 2010, 09:23 AM

Capital B refers to bytes, small b refers to bits. Network speeds are typically given in bits per second (100 Mb/s and 1 Gb/s) while file and volume sizes are typically given in bytes (1.5 TB, 640 GB).

The size of RAM chips (as opposed to RAM modules) is typically given in bits.

analogue SPRINKLES · Apr 8, 2010, 12:05 PM

Originally Posted by imitchellg5

My point is that the Atom line isn't as weak as you make it out to be (but you hate anything without an Apple logo anyway, so I'm not sure why I'm arguing).

Actually I have never used one and my only opinion of it is that based on ALL of the reviews done by pros have said the chip sucks big time for games and video. One of the biggest reasons for returns of netbooks is because people find them too slow.

I have nothing against things without Apple logos. I like the INTEL chips they use in the current Mac's or the LCD screens they use made by LG, the hard drives by Samsung, the B&W sounds docks/headphones/Canon/Sony etc etc.

I dont' get your point of the average family buying a 15" laptop with 4 gigs of ram GUESS. That doesn't make the Atom chip in netbooks any faster or make people who bought them and can't watch an HD video feel any better.

I am just really happy Apple did not use this crap chip in the iPad. It was so poor by apples judgement they actually went and made their own chip.

Hope you enjoy your stuttery videos on it though

imitchellg5 · Apr 8, 2010, 12:10 PM

Atom is Intel... Of course a netbook isn't supposed to be used for gaming. Nobody buys a 1.6Ghz computer with integrated graphics and expects it to be great at gaming. A 15" notebook with 4Gb of RAM isn't a guess. Go to any Best Buy or similar store and look at what's on the shelves. Most of the stuff people buy is 15-17" with 4Gb of RAM and a 320-640 Gb HD. How do you know that Apple ever considered putting a Pine Trail in the iPad? I doubt it wasn't powerful enough considering it's 600 MHz faster. If they did consider it at all, I'm guessing it wasn't compact enough for what they wanted and used too much power.

OreoCookie · Apr 8, 2010, 12:22 PM

@imitchellg5
Not only that, but ARM processors are fully customizable by design! This means, you can tailor a processor to your needs, something you cannot do with Intel's current offerings: take it or leave it! To be honest, I am a little bit surprised the iPad is powered by a cpu that is `just' twice as fast (on average) that that built into the iPhone 3gs: they could have used more cores or the Cortex A9 instead of the Cortex A8.

I'm not sure whether Intel's Atom platform was considered (I doubt it, though), but ARM cpus offer better features. For instance, current Atom cpus are not fast enough to play HD videos. Plus, they waste a lot more energy. With a suitably configured ARM cpu, you simply use extra hardware to decode the video -- even in HD -- without breaking a sweat. The Atom platform (that is cpu + chipset + gpu) draws a lot, lot more power than an ARM so battery life would be compromised.

Intel's Atom line-up is not very good: if it weren't for Windows, I doubt they'd sell at all. In the range of `top-of-the-line netbooks,' they are frequently substituted by low-power Core 2-based cpus. They are not really fast and Intel hasn't given the latest incarnation a significant power boost. Intel should stop trying to be Microsoft and focussing on what they are good at.

analogue SPRINKLES · Apr 8, 2010, 12:41 PM

Originally Posted by OreoCookie

To be honest, I am a little bit surprised the iPad is powered by a cpu that is `just' twice as fast (on average) that that built into the iPhone 3gs: they could have used more cores or the Cortex A9 instead of the Cortex A8.

I'm not. Remember Apples main goal was POWER consumption and media. The A4 chip handles it flawlessly.

Every person who has touched an iPad from day 1 has been blown away by the speed and battery life. It really is astounding having 10+ real use hours out of it. I have had an iPad since Monday and I use it for hours a day for heavy usage and here I am 4 days later on the original charge out of the box and I still got 20% left. It also never lags and seems faster rendering websites and emails than my dual core MBP.

Damn glad they didn't use Atom to watch youtube stutter and my battery last 5 hours. Smart move.

mduell · Apr 8, 2010, 01:25 PM

Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES

Every person who has touched an iPad from day 1 has been blown away by the speed and battery life. It really is astounding having 10+ real use hours out of it. I have had an iPad since Monday and I use it for hours a day for heavy usage and here I am 4 days later on the original charge out of the box and I still got 20% left. It also never lags and seems faster rendering websites and emails than my dual core MBP.

what? It takes way longer than a MBP to render a webpage. The web browsing experience is anything but seamless.

I don't know what your "heavy" usage is. Playing video in the Videos app it lasts 11 hours thanks to the special hardware to accelerate that but with other apps like Netflix and games it poops out in half that.

imitchellg5 · Apr 8, 2010, 03:00 PM

Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES

It also never lags and seems faster rendering websites and emails than my dual core MBP.

Damn glad they didn't use Atom to watch youtube stutter and my battery last 5 hours. Smart move.

Or I guess even a Core 2 Duo!

analogue SPRINKLES · Apr 8, 2010, 03:17 PM

Originally Posted by mduell

what? It takes way longer than a MBP to render a webpage. The web browsing experience is anything but seamless.

I don't know what your "heavy" usage is. Playing video in the Videos app it lasts 11 hours thanks to the special hardware to accelerate that but with other apps like Netflix and games it poops out in half that.

Yep, I'm guessing web sites render faster as they aren't loading and running tons of crap flash ads. Imagine that.

And yes my heavy usage along with ALL of the reviews mentioned 10+ hours. Shame that isn't the case with you.

Spheric Harlot · Apr 28, 2010, 05:54 AM

Interesting:

An Intrinsity Chip Powers the iPad and Apple's New A4 Processor - Mac Rumors