[TETENAL]

How many languages do you speak (including your native tongue)?

Only vote if you are not a US American.

[OreoCookie]

fluently
German (mother tongue)
English

intermediate skills (= I get around and can have a simple conversation)
French
Japanese

What I've left out
Spanish (I've learnt one semester of Spanish in Japan, taught me more Japanese than Spanish, hehe)

[Rumor]

You forgot an option after >4:

Option 6: Oisin

[OreoCookie]

His funny German doesn't count

[nonhuman]

[Edit: Ha! Thought this was the other thread!]

[Dork.]

Do C, Java, VHDL, and Verilog count?

[Horsepoo!!!]

Originally Posted by Dork. 

Do C, Java, VHDL, and Verilog count?

Do you speak them fluently?

[Dork.]

I've had entire conversations recently that consisted of nothing but VHDL and C....

[Horsepoo!!!]

Originally Posted by Dork. 

I've had entire conversations recently that consisted of nothing but VHDL and C....

Then they count.

[BRussell]

This is an interesting question because of the subjective nature of it. I know quite a few Americans who, after taking a language in school, say they speak the language, and quite a few Europeans who will not say they speak English despite doing quite well.

Part of it may just be exposure - you might consider yourself to speak Spanish if you had it in school and got an A but have never really had to speak it in real life, but you might not consider yourself to speak a language if you more frequently encounter people who speak that language in real life.

[OreoCookie]

Originally Posted by Horsepoo!!! 

Then they count.

Then I could've added mathematics (although I only speak some dialects ).

[DBursey]

What is a 'Non-US American' ??

[Monique]

French, English, Russian, German

[zombie punk]

Originally Posted by DBursey 

What is a 'Non-US American' ??

A Canadian or someone from South or Central America?

[DBursey]

A semantic throttling of demography!

English, Francais and Newfinese ...

[Jawbone54]

This thread is stupid. If you speak any language other than English, you're not a real American.

I really hope someone misses this little portion and goes off.

[Big Mac]

Originally Posted by TETENAL 

a US American.

That term reminds me of this:
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&ct=re...WP4giNL9wezG9w

[Helmling]

Originally Posted by DBursey 

What is a 'Non-US American' ??

The confusion stems from the OP's attempt not to use the term "American" to denote people from the United States alone, since technically all sorts of nationality are "American" because their countries are in America. The "non" applies to the entire construct of "US American" so he meant anyone not from the U.S.

Now, about the so-called-problem of calling people from the United States American: What else can we say? United States'er? American's the only one that works for people from the U.S.

Besides, we all know we're the only "Americans" that count.

[zombie punk]

Originally Posted by Helmling 

What else can we say? United States'er?

American is fine in the same was that European is fine for people from France, but when you want to refer specifically to someone who is a US citizen, USer, US citizen, from the US etc is the way to do it. It depends on the level of precision you need.

[BRussell]

Originally Posted by zombie punk 

American is fine in the same was that European is fine for people from France, but when you want to refer specifically to someone who is a US citizen, USer, US citizen, from the US etc is the way to do it. It depends on the level of precision you need.

No, American is used for a person from the US. Other terms are used for people from other countries in the Americas - Canadian, Mexican, Guatemalan, Chilean, etc. There would never be any confusion that you're referring to anywhere but the US if you say "American."

[zombie punk]

Originally Posted by BRussell 

No, American is used for a person from the US. Other terms are used for people from other countries in the Americas - Canadian, Mexican, Guatemalan, Chilean, etc. There would never be any confusion that you're referring to anywhere but the US if you say "American."

The same with France and European, right? You don't think it's kind of arrogant and egocentric to try to reserve the use of the word for two continents for people who come from one country? People from the US are American, but so are people from Canada, Mexico and Chile.

[BRussell]

Originally Posted by zombie punk 

The same with France and European, right? You don't think it's kind of arrogant and egocentric to try to reserve the use of the word for two continents for people who come from one country? People from the US are American, but so are people from Canada, Mexico and Chile.

That's what this is about - suggesting that there's some kind of arrogance or egocentrism, rather than just that 1) the USA is the only country with "America" in the name of the country and 2) there is no other way to form a simple, one-word name for a citizen of the US (Unitedstatesian, USamericanian, etc.). Sometimes a linguistic accident is just that, rather than a sign of American (oops!) imperialism or something.

[zombie punk]

Originally Posted by BRussell 

the USA is the only country with "America" in the name of the country

Yes, but unfortunately it's also the name of two continents.

[Uncle Doof]

Originally Posted by zombie punk 

Yes, but unfortunately it's also the name of two continents.

I predict that you'll make a lot of friends here.

[CRASH HARDDRIVE]

Originally Posted by zombie punk 

Yes, but unfortunately it's also the name of two continents.

No, there's North America, and South America. Together they are the Americas, but there is no continent named America.

If we can knock the first four letters off the name of a continent, then people from France are from Pe.

[Helmling]

Originally Posted by zombie punk 

Yes, but unfortunately it's also the name of two continents.

You can play this game if you want, but the convention is the convention. If America had never risen to be a superpower then you wouldn't care. This is all about resenting American hegemony and trying to fight it by quibbling over words.

It's just silly. The reality is that there's no other word for a citizen of the United States.

[zombie punk]

Nonsense - of course there are other terms. The fact is that your term of choice is ambiguous and presumptuous. It's nothing to do with the US's relative geopolitical might. If Costa Rica changed it's name to America I would be equally hostile, likewise if Liechtenstein called itself Eurasia.

[CRASH HARDDRIVE]

South Africa must really put you in a twist.

[Captain Obvious]

I was going to say five but I haven't spoken Jive in so long that I fear it no longer counts. Damn Mr Obama for setting such a high bar as to what I can consider fluent.

[red rocket]

Originally Posted by BRussell

there is no other way to form a simple, one-word name for a citizen of the US

Yank.

[zombie punk]

Originally Posted by CRASH HARDDRIVE 

South Africa must really put you in a twist.

Not at all. It would put me in a twist if they just called themselves 'Africa'.

[BRussell]

Originally Posted by red rocket 

Yank.

That's a verb.

[CRASH HARDDRIVE]

Originally Posted by zombie punk 

Not at all. It would put me in a twist if they just called themselves 'Africa'.

But that name is already taken. It's the name of a continent.

[zombie punk]

Originally Posted by CRASH HARDDRIVE 

But that name is already taken. It's the name of a continent.

Bingo - go to the top of the class!

[CRASH HARDDRIVE]

Originally Posted by zombie punk 

Bingo - go to the top of the class!

Right.
Now realize the difference between that and your statement.


It's funny to me that people insist on making such a big deal over the fact that is perfectly fine that US citizens are called Americans and that there's no continent-name conflict with this, and it's not any function of arrogance, but rather part of the same state/country/continent/regional naming convention that exists throughout the world.

But I'm also happy that so many people wish to call themselves Americans too. Have at it!

[zombie punk]

Originally Posted by CRASH HARDDRIVE 

Right.
Now realize the difference between that and your statement.

It's funny to me that people insist on making such a big deal over the fact that is perfectly fine that US citizens are called Americans and that there's no continent-name conflict with this, and it's not any function of arrogance, but rather part of the same state/country/continent/regional naming convention that exists throughout the world.

But I'm also happy that so many people wish to call themselves Americans too. Have at it!

You're quite wrong though. South Africans don't call themselves 'Africans' except in the general sense of being from the continent. They don't insist that the name of their continent should be used for the citizens of their country. The term 'American' refers to people from North, Central and South America - 'the Americas' - you're surely not disputing this fact? Insisting on using the term to refer to people from one country is imprecise and misleading.
US citizens are 'Americans', there is no doubt about that, but then, so are the citizens of all the other countries in the Americas. If you are using the term in the broad sense, there is no problem, but if you are talking only about citizens of the USA, you need to be specific.

[BRussell]

Originally Posted by zombie punk 

The term 'American' refers to people from North, Central and South America - 'the Americas' - you're surely not disputing this fact?

Yeah, I'll dispute it. I don't know any Canadians who call themselves Americans.

America isn't a continent anyway. Some people refer to North Americans or South or Central Americans, in which case there's no ambiguity. But the only people who call themselves Americans are from the US.

[zombie punk]

Originally Posted by BRussell 

Yeah, I'll dispute it. I don't know any Canadians who call themselves Americans.

Then it must be true...

Originally Posted by BRussell 

America isn't a continent anyway.

Correct. It's two continents - that makes it worse, not better...

Originally Posted by BRussell 

Some people refer to North Americans or South or Central Americans, in which case there's no ambiguity.

True, the same with US Americans. Again, no ambiguity.

Originally Posted by BRussell 

But the only people who call themselves Americans are from the US.

That's plainly not true. Except in the sense that your first statement is true, that is, you've never met anyone who does. I think you need to get out more, and meet some more people!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Use_of_the_word_American

"Latin Americans consider everyone in the Americas to be americanos. Use of the word to refer specifically to U.S. citizens may be seen as ignorant, arrogant, incorrect, or even self-serving depending on the context. The same sentiments may apply to the use of the word American in English. The Luxury Link travel guide[14] advises U.S. nationals traveling in Mexico to avoid referring to themselves as Americans, as Mexicans consider themselves Americans. The Getting Through Customs website advises business travelers not to use "in America" as a reference to the United States when doing business in Brazil."

[CRASH HARDDRIVE]

Originally Posted by zombie punk 

You're quite wrong though. South Africans don't call themselves 'Africans' except in the general sense of being from the continent.

Exactly. A Libyan may call themselves a North African, and be perfectly correct in doing so. But someone from Namibia wouldn't call themselves a South African, despite being technically correct in a regional sense, because people would think they meant the country. North and South as part of place's name are not tossed by the wayside willy-nilly, and the same is true of North and South America.

Likewise, I have never met Canadians who walk around calling themselves Americans unless they mean they've changed their citizenship. It's pretty silly to be anywhere in the world and refer to yourself as an American and by default expect it not to be taken as you're from the US. It requires further, unnecessary explanation that you're referring to the partial name of two continents, and so is actually the LONG ROUTE of explaining where you're actually from, not any sort of shortcut as you're trying to pretend it is.

North American or South American works- people know you're referring to the continent.

They don't insist that the name of their continent should be used for the citizens of their country.

Likewise, I've never met an American who insists the name of their continent be used for the citizens of their country, although in either case, it is perfectly fine to call an American a North American, or a South African an African.

The term 'American' refers to people from North, Central and South America - 'the Americas' - you're surely not disputing this fact?

Like I said, I'm happy that others want to call themselves Americans. It's perfectly fine- just it changes nothing that when referring to the COUNTRY you are from (the way the term is used and taken to mean most often), American refers only to a US citizen. There's no big deal about it, other than with people that have some weird axe to grind over it.

Insisting on using the term to refer to people from one country is imprecise and misleading.

What other country has the term America in it's name? No one is mislead except people purposefully looking to be mislead over it.

US citizens are 'Americans', there is no doubt about that, but then, so are the citizens of all the other countries in the Americas. If you are using the term in the broad sense, there is no problem, but if you are talking only about citizens of the USA, you need to be specific.

I am quite specifically, an American. Everyone else in the entire world can call themselves an American too if they wish, (in fact, as I said, I welcome it) but it doesn't change anything as far as me being an American.

[zombie punk]

Originally Posted by CRASH HARDDRIVE 

Likewise, I have never met Canadians who walk around calling themselves Americans unless they mean they've changed their citizenship.

Again, the fact that you have not met these people does not advance your case.

Originally Posted by CRASH HARDDRIVE 

It's pretty silly to be anywhere in the world and refer to yourself as an American and by default expect it not to be taken as you're from the US.

This is plainly untrue. Travel guides and customs sites advise US citizens that it is counterproductive to make the assumption that the rest of the world shares their usage of the term. http://www.getcustoms.com/2004GTC/Articles/oag_11.html[/QUOTE]

Originally Posted by CRASH HARDDRIVE 

It requires further, unnecessary explanation that you're referring to the partial name of two continents, and so is actually the LONG ROUTE of explaining where you're actually from, not any sort of shortcut as you're trying to pretend it is.

You are plainly wrong. I've shown you evidence that this is not true. I understand that you may not have travelled widely outside the US, but you don't have to take my word for it.

Originally Posted by CRASH HARDDRIVE 

North American or South American works- people know you're referring to the continent.

That may be true for the people you meet on a day to day basis - again, be careful about generalizing from your experience.

Originally Posted by CRASH HARDDRIVE 

Likewise, I've never met an American who insists the name of their continent be used for the citizens of their country.

Again, generalizing from your limited exposure is not a strong argument.

Originally Posted by CRASH HARDDRIVE 

Like I said, I'm happy that others want to call themselves Americans. It's perfectly fine

Good, especially if they are from the American continents!

Originally Posted by CRASH HARDDRIVE 

just it changes nothing that when referring to the COUNTRY you are from (the way the term is used and taken to mean most often)

Again, you're confusing your limited experience with the outside world.

Originally Posted by CRASH HARDDRIVE 

American refers only to a US citizen.

Maybe to you, but you're going to run into problems in other places where that is not how the word is used.[QUOTE]

Originally Posted by CRASH HARDDRIVE 

There's no big deal about it, other than with people that have some weird axe to grind over it.

I'm glad we've got that settled!

Originally Posted by CRASH HARDDRIVE 

What other country has the term America in it's name? No one is mislead except people purposefully looking to be mislead over it.

We've been over this - no other country, but two continents do.

Originally Posted by CRASH HARDDRIVE 

I am quite specifically, an American. Everyone else in the entire world can call themselves an American too if they wish, (in fact, as I said, I welcome it) but it doesn't change anything as far as me being an American.

You are certainly an American. As is anyone else from the American continents. If you want to be specific, you need to be more precise in your language. Again, this is probably not an issue for you in the circles you move in, and if you never travel widely outside the US may never be.

[CRASH HARDDRIVE]

Peeb, is that you?

This is exactly the kind of silly argumentative branch he used to get himself out on and saw off behind himself.

You haven't countered a single fact with anything other than "Well that's your experience..." Yet you're only going by some pretend experience you have that doesn't seem to be shared by anyone else.

You need to look up the names of the continents if they were never taught to you. Insisting that not only one continent is named America, but two, is just silly. Why would there even be two continents with the same name?

[zombie punk]

I have linked to external resources that recommend that travelers and business professionals from the US do not use the term 'America' to refer to the US because it is confusing and a potential source of offense since that term is not used to refer to the US in other countries. You have simply said you've never met anyone who takes that view. You're the one sawing off the branch you're sitting on.

[CRASH HARDDRIVE]

Ahh, so rather than any logical real world experience with the issue (the very thing you're attempting to claim no one else has) your "external sources" are to be held up as the standard everyone follows. Yes, everyone checks with getcustoms.org before they go anywhere and talk to anyone about where they're from.

[zombie punk]

No, I have extensive personal experience with this, I just don't expect others to believe me based on this. That's why I linked to several travel guides and websites that back up my assertion. Something that you have been unable to do.
I suggest that you do check with them before you travel, lest you cause offense / embarrass yourself.
You might like to start your research here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Use_of_the_word_American

[Uncle Doof]

Originally Posted by zombie punk 

You might like to start your research here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Use_of_the_word_American

The word can be used as both a noun and an adjective. In adjectival use, it is generally understood to mean "of or relating to the United States of America"; for example, "Elvis Presley was an American singer" or "the American president gave a speech today;" in noun form, it generally means U.S. citizen or national. When used with a grammatical qualifier the adjective American can mean "of or relating to the Americas," as in Latin American or Indigenous American.

Very good.

[zombie punk]

Originally Posted by Uncle Doof 

Very good.

Again, your tactic of taking the specific and overgeneralizing is made of fail. Sure the word has that meaning in some contexts, the point here is that in many places it does not. You'll get the hang of it eventually - I admire your persistence!

[CRASH HARDDRIVE]

Definitely Peeb!

That was your own source!

Classic!

[zombie punk]

You fail it totally. I guess you/doof if you are not the same troll just start making random attacks instead of defending your 'point' when you know you're beaten? Have the decency to back down gracefully when you are in the wrong. Better luck next time!
By the way, for extra points, which countries does the Pan American Highway go through?

[Helmling]

Originally Posted by zombie punk 

Nonsense - of course there are other terms. The fact is that your term of choice is ambiguous and presumptuous. It's nothing to do with the US's relative geopolitical might. If Costa Rica changed it's name to America I would be equally hostile, likewise if Liechtenstein called itself Eurasia.

I refuse to believe you would ever give one rat's ass what Liechtensteinians called themselves.

[Helmling]

Originally Posted by zombie punk 

Again, your tactic of taking the specific and overgeneralizing is made of fail. Sure the word has that meaning in some contexts, the point here is that in many places it does not. You'll get the hang of it eventually - I admire your persistence!

You're the one who was complaining about people using it in that context. So I think you've gotten mixed up as to just what point you were trying to make. To be clear, though, you just accepted that "American" is perfectly acceptable as a description of people from the United States in context.

Argument over. You lose.