[Big Mac]

The world markets sold off hugely overnight, and now the American markets (specifically the S&P, down 60, although the DOW and NASDAQ are very close) are waiting to open in a "limit down" state (DOW down 550), which means that the market automatically shuts off for around a half hour before being allowed to go even lower potentially. CNBC says hedge funds are unwinding and closing up shop. Oil is falling into the mid-60s despite OPEC cuts, while gold is below $700.

WOW. We are living in interesting times. Pass the boiled shoe leather, time for Barack Hussein Obama's New New Deal.

On the bright side, the experts are saying many stocks are now priced below their 1974 lows. If someone has a lot of cash lying around, putting it to work once this starts to clear up would make a lot of sense.

[RAILhead]

Like I've said a million times, IGNORE THE FUD AND BUY. Stocks and funds are merely ON SALE.

[Krusty]

It'll be interesting to see how far this unwinds. If the stocks completely tank anyway, can we have our bailout funds back ? That's an awful lot of good money to have thrown after bad and I bet we could use the 2 trillion or so for a bitchin rebuild once this stuff finally hits the floor.

[Big Mac]

It's all imaginary anyway, right?

[RAILhead]

Oh, and I thought the Dems had solved this problem... and now we want one in the White House?

[Big Mac]

Nah, it's all Bush and McCain's fault somehow.

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by RAILhead 

Like I've said a million times, IGNORE THE FUD AND BUY. Stocks and funds are merely ON SALE.

QFT.
and this is here so the software doesn't automatically decap the post

[Krusty]

Originally Posted by RAILhead 

Oh, and I thought the Dems had solved this problem... and now we want one in the White House?

You mean all the numerous bailouts over the last 6 months directed by executive decision of the Administration and Paulson in the treasury ? Or do you mean the big $700 billion one that President Bush himself presented as a 3-page mockery that Congress got together and sliced, diced, and put a minimal leash on the Treasury choose the big institutions they were going to save ?

The right never ceases to amaze. All the bailouts up to the big one were directed without congressional approval. The big one was submitted by Dubya himself .... but somehow now all this wasted money is now the Dems fault ?

[RAILhead]

Wait -- are you actually, really saying the bailouts were Bush's idea? Holy crap on a pope-rope...

[stumblinmike]

You conservatives are so cute when you've humbled!

[Big Mac]

Originally Posted by Krusty 

The right never ceases to amaze. All the bailouts up to the big one were directed without congressional approval. The big one was submitted by Dubya himself .... but somehow now all this wasted money is now the Dems fault ?

First of all, the bail-out was strongly supported by Bush, but the principle backers of the plan were Pelosi and Dodd. Secondly, it was House Republicans, if you recall (which apparently you don't, short term memory I suppose), who killed the first version of the bill. Eventually it passed, but strong conservatives and Libertarians were still opposed to it.

[RAILhead]

You liberals try so hard to pass the buck to avoid blame for failed policies...

[Big Mac]

On the other hand, the CNBC talking heads (including the very intelligent fund manager Mohamed El Erian) all agree the bail-out was the right thing to do.

[Eug]

Originally Posted by RAILhead 

Like I've said a million times, IGNORE THE FUD AND BUY. Stocks and funds are merely ON SALE.

If you want ANY liquidity in your portfolio, now is not necessarily the time to buy. It's only cheap if you're in for the very long term.

The smart ones had parked much of their money in cash to ride this out. However, for those thinking about doing this now, it's too late. The time to do that was months ago. Still, if you have extra cash it might not be a bad thing to keep it parked there if you don't want risk and if you don't want to be forced to keep your money in the market for several years.

However, if you're in it for the long haul (> 5 years), then yes stuff is a bargain.

Originally Posted by RAILhead 

You liberals try so hard to pass the buck to avoid blame for failed policies...

That statement is ironic on so many levels.

Captured for posterity.

[Big Mac]

Eug, It's not ironic when you consider just how effective the Democrats passed the buck for the sub-prime crisis they were predominately responsible. They somehow tricked Americans into thinking they were better stewards of the economy.

[besson3c]

I blame Jimmy Carter for all of this! Either him or Bill Clinton, I can't quite make up my mind, but I know that some liberal president is to blame for all of this. I'm sure somebody here will remind me why!

[besson3c]

An administration controlled by Republicans for 6 years and partially controlled for 2 and it is all the Democrat's fault?

Just when is something the Republican's fault anyway, or does this not happen?

[Eug]

Originally Posted by Big Mac 

Eug, It's not ironic when you consider just how effective the Democrats passed the buck for the sub-prime crisis they were predominately responsible. They somehow tricked Americans into thinking they were better stewards of the economy.

It's very ironic, just as your statement now is ironic.

Both sides are to blame, but you're just as willing as some Democrats to claim that it's mainly the other side's fault, despite the fact that the US of A has had a Republican prez for 8 years. I mean really, it's amusing that you can't see the hypocrisy. We'll maybe not amusing. Perhaps just sad.

[Wiskedjak]

Originally Posted by RAILhead 

You liberals try so hard to pass the buck to avoid blame for failed policies...

Seems to me that the Bailout was presented by a Republican administration and jointly passed by Republicans and Democrats. If it fails, everyone who supported it is to blame, not one side or the other.

[Big Mac]

Originally Posted by Eug 

Both sides are to blame, but you're just as willing as some Democrats to claim that it's mainly the other side's fault

If you think both sides are equally to blame, you're very much mistaken. This was a largely Democratic created sub-prime mess. President Clinton added to the already problematic CRA and removed Depression-era regulations. The additions to the CRA led groups helped groups like ACORN to apply undue pressure on banks to increase the sub-prime loans. Democratic leaders decried banks as racist if they didn't make sub-prime loans. Democrats blocked calls from McCain and Bush to reform Freddie and Fannie. Barney Frank and Maxine Waters said there was nothing wrong with the GSEs. Bill Clinton admits to these things, and even Alec Baldwin had the courage to blame his own party and Barney Frank by name on Bill Maher's show. I don't know why I have to continually spell these facts out for you guys.

[besson3c]

Stop making sense guys, and get to blaming Jimmy Carter or Bill Clinton on this one, unless you think that being turned into cat food is something that is at all desirable!

[RAILhead]

Originally Posted by besson3c 

ust when is something the Republican's fault anyway, or does this not happen?

When they let illegals infest our country like they've been doing the last 8 years. It may come as a surprise, but I'm not one of those conservatives that's actually a fan of Jorgé Bush.

[Eug]

Originally Posted by Big Mac 

If you think both sides are equally to blame, you're very much mistaken.

If you don't think both sides deserve significant blame, you're hiding your head in the sand.

Originally Posted by Big Mac 

Alec Baldwin had the courage to blame his own party and Barney Frank by name on Bill Maher's show.

OK, now you convinced me.

So, what's next? Liberace's political views from the afterlife, channeled through a psychic on TV?**

**For entertainment purposes only.

[Big Mac]

Originally Posted by Eug 

If you don't think both sides deserve significant blame, you're hiding your head in the sand.

There is blame to go around, but the predominate amount of blame rests on the Democratic party. If you don't understand that, then you don't understand the facts and you're just talking out of your rectum to suit your bias. Yes, it's a complicated world, but you don't make yourself sound more sophisticated by blinding yourself to the fact that there are often bad actors and worse actors.

[Mrjinglesusa]

Originally Posted by RAILhead 

You liberals try so hard to pass the buck to avoid blame for failed policies...

I don't see any liberals trying to pass the blame from the failed policies of the Bush/Cheney Administration.

[SpaceMonkey]

Originally Posted by Big Mac 

If you think both sides are equally to blame, you're very much mistaken. This was a largely Democratic created sub-prime mess. President Clinton added to the already problematic CRA and removed Depression-era regulations. The additions to the CRA led groups helped groups like ACORN to apply undue pressure on banks to increase the sub-prime loans. Democratic leaders decried banks as racist if they didn't make sub-prime loans. Democrats blocked calls from McCain and Bush to reform Freddie and Fannie. Barney Frank and Maxine Waters said there was nothing wrong with the GSEs. Bill Clinton admits to these things, and even Alec Baldwin had the courage to blame his own party and Barney Frank by name on Bill Maher's show. I don't know why I have to continually spell these facts out for you guys.

On the other hand: http://www.newsweek.com/id/163451

[Big Mac]

Bush got suckered in initially, but he was calling for reform along with McCain. No one will ever give him credit for that (and those who do will be called simple partisans).

[vmarks]

It's this kind of criticism that stifles bi-partisanship and 'reaching across the aisle' - why side with the other side if they're only going to crucify you for it?

Remember, NCLB was written by Sen. Edward Kennedy.

[RAILhead]

Make no mistake, I think EVERYONE that voted for this bill is an IDIOT -- and that's a LOT of people. However, to say this bill was hatched from Bush or the Repubs is ludicrous.

[Big Mac]

Well, that's quite funny. Market veterans on CNBC thought we would see a blood bath today given the world-wide sell-off and depressed futures, yet we're only down a moderate amount and currently recovering. It just goes to show you that you can spend your entire life on the market and still not necessarily know what it will do - even when seems to be telegraphing a knock-out punch.

[Krusty]

Originally Posted by RAILhead 

Make no mistake, I think EVERYONE that voted for this bill is an IDIOT -- and that's a LOT of people. However, to say this bill was hatched from Bush or the Repubs is ludicrous.

Um ... Bush submitted the bill. Who, in your opinion, submitted this bill if it wasn't Bush ??

I think you guys are nuts when you try to retroactively pretend the right-wing were some sort of champions of regulation when, in the overwhelming majority of cases, they were vocal proponents of deregulating anything and everything. But that issue aside, this BILL was submitted by Bush and amounted to a $700 billion blank check to Paulson. Congress of course got their grubby hands on it and warped it a bit but no person in Congress .... democrat or republican .... submitted this bill initially.

Please name the senator(s) or representative(s) that submitted this bailout bill.

[Dork.]

Technically speaking, the President cannot submit a bill to Congress directly, so there must have been congressional sponsors. Furthermore, the only reason that the Senate passed a bill before the House (aside from the House rejecting it the first time) was that the Senate leadership attached it to existing legislation for something totally different, so the "sponsors" of the bill in the Senate are irrelevant.

Still, the President and his Treasury Secretary still gave a 3-page bill to congressional leaders, and Congress took it and expanded it to the hundred page law we have today. But at the heart of that 3-page bill was the core bailout idea. If RAILHead insists that the bailout was never Bush's idea to begin with, he simply wasn't paying sufficient attention at the time. Either that, or he's trolling.

[Krusty]

Originally Posted by Big Mac 

First of all, the bail-out was strongly supported by Bush, but the principle backers of the plan were Pelosi and Dodd. Secondly, it was House Republicans, if you recall (which apparently you don't, short term memory I suppose), who killed the first version of the bill. Eventually it passed, but strong conservatives and Libertarians were still opposed to it.

Hey, finally a Big Mac post I can somewhat agree with. You are correct !! Once the bill was submitted, a higher percentage of Republicans voted against it than Democrats. Sad thing is, there actually IS still a small faction of the Republican party that are true "conservatives" in the classical sense (Ron Paul but also many others). Unfortunately, this section of the Republican party was marginalized long ago in favor of the "Big Goverment" or "Statist" conservatives who are broadly expansive of both the budget (not fiscally conservative) AND of the governments ability to override basic rights of its citizenry (not champions of individual liberty). The only way they hearken to true conservatives anymore is thru social conservatism.

[Big Mac]

Ah, it's good we're starting to come to common ground. I don't like arguing against you, Krusty, you so predictably crack me up.

[Eug]

Good to see the markets paring some of the losses.

As far as I'm concerned, at this point there isn't any real logic to the markets... except to say that the logic one should use is that the markets are illogical. I do think a correction was well deserved, but I also think it's gone way overboard.

I actually have a lot of cash on hand right now, but I'm not going to bother investing it. I'll just pay down more of my mortgage. That doesn't give me any liquidity either, but at least its effect in terms of reduced interest is assured.

BTW, I made a nice profit on my last AAPL swing trade, but overall I'm still in the red for AAPL over my last two stock purchases. I bought after AAPL dropped one-third in value, but in these markets, that just wasn't good enough. Then I bought after dropped over 45% in value, but in these markets, that still wasn't good enough. AAPL had dropped well over 50% in value before it hit bottom, and who knows if that's the true bottom given these illogical markets.

In the meantime I'm telling some family members it finally might be time to convert a bit of their US$ to CAD$. The exchange rate for this hasn't been better in nearly four years. Sure, the CAD$ could drop even lower, but then again you'll never realize any of those exchange rate profits unless you lock in.

[villalobos]

Originally Posted by Big Mac 

There is blame to go around, but the predominate amount of blame rests on the Democratic party. If you don't understand that, then you don't understand the facts and you're just talking out of your rectum to suit your bias. Yes, it's a complicated world, but you don't make yourself sound more sophisticated by blinding yourself to the fact that there are often bad actors and worse actors.

What you don't want to say though, or don't realize, is that the Republicans were all to happy about not doing anything since the real estate bubble allowed the economy to recover artificially from the burst of the just as artificial internet bubble. Without this last bubble, the economy would have sunk much faster, and W would probably never have seen a second mandate. Of course the consequences are a probably larger crisis now. Politicians are in for the short term, just like CEOs.

[Dork.]

Originally Posted by villalobos 

Politicians are in for the short term, just like CEOs.

This may be off-topic, but this is part of the reason why I'm conflicted about term limits. Although they could like a good idea, once you put a limit on the amount of time a politician can spend in office, you guarantee that he'll only care about policies in that time horizon.

[Chongo]

Breaking News!
The DNC has annouced thay are changing their official logo to better reflect the Democrat Party

 

FUD(D)