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Obama, Gay Marriage, Original Sin, Founding Fathers, Catholics, and Pearls (Page 4)
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Posting Junkie
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Originally Posted by Waragainstsleep
I would say that gays would have no more problem with religious people than the rest of us if it weren't for the fact that so many religious people are anti-gay.
There are far fewer "anti-gay" religious people than you might think. The "anti-gay" people are also less religious than you might think. They're guilty of human nature quite simply.
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ebuddy
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I wasn't trying to imply that all religious people are anti-gay or even that most of them are. I suppose I should have said religions rather than religious people.
I do think the odds of being anti-gay are substantially higher in someone who is religious though. I would not be surprised if most anti-gay people were religious.
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I have plenty of more important things to do, if only I could bring myself to do them....
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Originally Posted by ebuddy
I don't think this is accurate. The majority of religious people I know don't hate gays or teach others to hate gays or brain-wash people to hate gays. As I said earlier; religious people are at least as tolerant of gays as gays are of religious people. The reason your sample of respondents (the "people you know" must get tired of all the polling on health care, homosexuality, US vs Canada, etc...) likely remain in the religion is because it doesn't hate them, or teach others to hate them, or brain-wash people to hate them.
They remain religious for the same reason most people remain religious. Early childhood brain washing. That said a article I was reading on CNN from the Black community pointed out that its not just about hate. Its also about saving the souls of gay people. Out of love they oppose it and out of love they fight it to save the souls of fellow brothers so they will have a place with god. So using the word hate is not appropriate. But there is a active role by religion and religious people to prevent it, to change it and it can come across as a hated or as rightly pointed out caring of the well being of gay people. Either way its a force working towards a end which is to end homosexuality and some radicals at all cost. How individual church goers interpret this, either through hatred or love is individual.
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Blandine Bureau 1940 - 2011
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Clinically Insane
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People need to worry more about their own souls.
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Originally Posted by subego
People need to worry more about their own souls.
But what if the only way to save your own soul is to offer up others' in exchange?
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Clinically Insane
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That's my point.
Last time I checked, the exchange rate on a fully gay soul was about twice that of a straight soul. You get more for your dollar by leaving them alone.
I blame Greece.
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A friend on Facebook linked to this site, and I was astounded by the level of hatred, bigotry, and fear-mongering that could come from an influential "expert" that is referenced by such influential conservative groups as the Family Research Council and American Family Association: Paul Cameron suggests Obama is gay, demands gays be imprisoned before they rape kids – LGBTQ Nation
Mark my words clearly; the long term goal of the homosexual movement is to get every little boy to grab his ankles and every little girl to give it a try. They will not rest until every one of our children at least gets to try, has the opportunity and maybe is forced to at least once experience homosexual acts. There is no retreating from that, they made it very clear earlier on—now they don’t take about it—but that’s what they want, they will not be happy until they get it, marriage is just a step along the way.
Cameron later said he “partially agreed” with a caller who said, “they gave blacks equal rights and that was a bad path and now look where we are, if I don’t feel like I want to hire a black man for my business I’m in all sorts of trouble and now it’s going to be some homo who is gonna have to get a job because I can’t do nothing about it.”
Cameron claimed the push for LGBT equality “brings into question the civil rights mentality” because it created “special rights on the basis of certain characteristics,” calling gays and lesbians “mentally deranged” and transgender people “people that are really strange.” He went on to compare gays and lesbians to people who have a sexual attraction to “dirty socks” and said “we’re headed to a place where the weirder the people, the more rights they will obtain and the more normal the fewer rights you will have”
Yes but the Christian Church for almost 2000 years said we will protect the rest of society from these miscreants and we will be kind to those who come to us individually and say ‘help me blah blah blah’ and that’s fine. I hear Christian spokespersons saying things like ‘we must be kind to the homosexuals because we must get them to come to church and listen to us and maybe they’ll convert,’ good luck! Sometimes that happens but you’re really running a very bad bet and you’re going way outside of mainstream Christian history.
That's right: he openly advocated being unkind to gays. And notice he is openly contemptuous of gays who ask for "help." They are irredeemable miscreants.
So now I've moved the AFA and FRC from the "misinformed" column to the "deliberately evil" column.
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I'm with you lpkmckenna. The fringy anti-gay stuff that has been appearing lately makes me want to puke. Just when I think we have evolved a little I'm reminded that there are still knuckle draggers.
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Games Meister
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I think they know the battle is lost and they're going out in one big explosion of hate.
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Clinically Insane
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Don't you sheeple get it?
They're going to make us like... become like... Europe.
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I have plenty of more important things to do, if only I could bring myself to do them....
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I think this summarizes exactly why the religious condemnation of gays is so friggin' stupid:
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45/47
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Games Meister
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That is really so far below worth posting.
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The "reporter" is a stunt jockey. Smith showed restraint letting him kiss his cheeks and hug him, the guy should not have gone for the mouth, but Smith should not have slapped him (however very slight it might have been).
Less a homophobe and more a celeb/paparazzi clash.
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I'm sure that there are plenty of openly gay men who would have slapped that guy as well. Violating someone's personal space like that is never acceptable.
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Games Meister
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Originally Posted by Chongo
Question: If the answer is yes, what are we supposed to take away from this?
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Originally Posted by The Final Dakar
Question: If the answer is yes, what are we supposed to take away from this?
Chongo's feeling of not being paid attention to?
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Clinically Insane
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Originally Posted by andi*pandi
The "reporter" is a stunt jockey. Smith showed restraint letting him kiss his cheeks and hug him, the guy should not have gone for the mouth, but Smith should not have slapped him (however very slight it might have been).
Less a homophobe and more a celeb/paparazzi clash.
If a chick had been kissed on the mouth and she slapped the reporter it would be a non-issue.
Moral: Don't kiss people on the mouth without consent, it's rude in many circles and there are big hygiene issues involved.
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"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
- Thomas Paine
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All you guys that think that objecting to a stranger kissing you on the mouth is a sign of being a homophobe should just f&*K off. Seriously.
-t
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Originally Posted by turtle777
All you guys that think that objecting to a stranger kissing you on the mouth is a sign of being a homophobe should just f&*K off. Seriously.
-t
Chongo posts the Will Smith video. 6 posts follow. NONE of which say anything even remotely about Will Smith being a "homophobe" because of his actions in that incident. Yet you apparently feel the need to unleash some completely unwarranted hostility. Odd ... to say the least.
OAW
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Can only assume that Turtle's post is directed at Chongo?
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Originally Posted by Shaddim
If a chick had been kissed on the mouth and she slapped the reporter it would be a non-issue.
Moral: Don't kiss people on the mouth without consent, it's rude in many circles and there are big hygiene issues involved.
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Originally Posted by Chongo
Does this make Will Smith a "homophobe"
No.
Does asking such a question make Chongo a fool?
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Originally Posted by lpkmckenna
No.
Does asking such a question make Chongo a fool?
No. Will Smith was very pissed and stated "he's lucky I didn't cold cock him" He must be afraid of something. He could have just pushed him away, instead he chose to backhand him. If that had been Dennis Miller ya'll been screamin' homophobe.
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45/47
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strawman
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Originally Posted by Uncle Skeleton
strawman
Nell, vato, es puro verdad.
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45/47
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Clinically Insane
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I think it's impolite to kiss someone if they're not into it, but I think it's less polite to backhand someone if they aren't into it.
Not all too concerned about health issues. I'm fairly confident most people with hepatitis curb their inner kissing bandit.
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Just watched "Law and Order, SVU" episode on USA entitled: "Lowdown" Maybe Will Smith had that in mind.
(
Last edited by Chongo; May 22, 2012 at 09:08 PM.
)
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45/47
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Originally Posted by andi*pandi
The "reporter" is a stunt jockey. Smith showed restraint letting him kiss his cheeks and hug him, the guy should not have gone for the mouth, but Smith should not have slapped him (however very slight it might have been).
Less a homophobe and more a celeb/paparazzi clash.
.... Im bi, and if some dude tried to plant a kiss on me like that I would have knocked the mofo out. Nothing homophobic about it. Unwanted kisses and sexual touching from a stranger is going to create a reaction regardless of sex. Will should have shown more restraint and not slapped the dude though.
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Blandine Bureau 1940 - 2011
Missed 2012 by 3 days, RIP Grandma :-(
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Originally Posted by Chongo
He must be afraid of something.
Says you.
He could have just pushed him away, instead he chose to backhand him.
It makes no difference.
If that had been Dennis Miller ya'll been screamin' homophobe.
Wrong as usual.
What is it with conservatives on this board always, always stuffing words in other people's mouths?
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Um... isn't it relatively customary in Russia to express great admiration and respect for someone by kissing them once on each cheek? This is a fairly common expression of friendship among males abroad. I saw no "going after the lips".
Is Will Smith a homophobe? I don't know, but he certainly seemed to overreact here.
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ebuddy
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Originally Posted by ebuddy
Um... isn't it relatively customary in Russia to express great admiration and respect for someone by kissing them once on each cheek? This is a fairly common expression of friendship among males abroad. I saw no "going after the lips".
Is Will Smith a homophobe? I don't know, but he certainly seemed to overreact here.
I'm trying to figure out the whole point of this Will Smith conversation. How does it relate to the conversation about Obama's position on gay marriage? Is it because Chongo has found 1 black guy who reacted strongly to a reporter's forceful kiss on each cheek and that somehow means that the *entire* black community is going to react similarly to Obama's position on gay marriage?
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Games Meister
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Originally Posted by Chongo
Nell, vato, es puro verdad.
Oh good, as if Chongo's english posts weren't hard enough to decipher.
Originally Posted by Chongo
No. Will Smith was very pissed and stated "he's lucky I didn't cold cock him" He must be afraid of something. He could have just pushed him away, instead he chose to backhand him. If that had been Dennis Miller ya'll been screamin' homophobe.
So, let me attempt to understand what's going on here...
1. You post a video of Will Smith pushing away a stranger who is trying to kiss him and ask if he's a homophobe
2a. If the answer is yes ????
2b. If the answer is no and you're a pro-gay marriage liberal, you are obviously a hypocrite as if this was Dennis Miller instead you would most definitely call him a homophobe because he is white and conservative (Says Chongo's crystal ball)
3. Therefore, gay mariage and/or Obama are wrong/doomed.
4. Shit gets said in another language
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Originally Posted by ebuddy
Um... isn't it relatively customary in Russia to express great admiration and respect for someone by kissing them once on each cheek? This is a fairly common expression of friendship among males abroad. I saw no "going after the lips".
Is Will Smith a homophobe? I don't know, but he certainly seemed to overreact here.
The Will Smith episode, as has already been pointed out, has nothing to do with the subject at hand, and just because it's a common expression of males abroad, doesn't mean it's appropriate. Will Smith isn't Russian, and this appears to me to be more of a stunt, as others have also already pointed out. Smith was perfectly within his rights to react the way he did, but it still has nothing to do with the matter at hand, except to divert attention.
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Why is there always money for war, but none for education?
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It does some what, Will Smith spoke out in support of Obama with regards to gay marriage. And his opinion is a very fair opinion, about as fair as you can get from a heterosexual person. I quote " “if anybody can find someone to love them and to help them through this difficult thing that we call life, I support that in any shape or form.” and it really does come down to that. Personal happiness and support. As for the focus on the slap, really its a who cares issue. Most of us would react similar when a stranger attempts to kiss you on the lips. Kissing on the cheeks is common in many places of the world and at worse Will is guilty of cultural ignorance if it was just a attempt to kiss on the cheeks. Watching the video it really looks like an attempt to plant one on the lips had Will not resisted. It came to light its part of that reporters act to kiss people on the lips so its fair to assume that was the intent. I don't see anything homophobic about what WIll did.
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Blandine Bureau 1940 - 2011
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Clinically Insane
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Side question:
Is the dual cheek kiss supposed to be lip to cheek? I've always seen it (and done it) cheek to cheek but with kissy sound.
Edit: maybe one corner of your lip to cheek, but 99% of what's in contact is cheek.
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Originally Posted by subego
Side question:
Is the dual cheek kiss supposed to be lip to cheek? I've always seen it (and done it) cheek to cheek but with kissy sound.
Edit: maybe one corner of your lip to cheek, but 99% of what's in contact is cheek.
Side answer:
I speculate that it was originally lip to cheek, but evolved to be cheek to cheek with kissy sounds to be more acceptable across multiple cultures.
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Clinically Insane
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I was thinking that, but wouldn't you have to crane your neck all weird too?
When I see grandmas do it to their grandchildren, they usually lock the kid's skull in a vise-like grip and adjust the targets to be straight on.
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Clinically Insane
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And, isn't there supposed to be something mutual about it (with adults)? You're kissing each other, not one person kissing another.
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Games Meister
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Originally Posted by subego
And, isn't there supposed to be something mutual about it (with adults)? You're kissing each other, not one person kissing another.
Maybe if you're a homophobe.
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For the record, it's certainly possible to be homophobic yet still support same-sex marriage.
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Games Meister
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Originally Posted by gradient
For the record, it's certainly possible to be homophobic yet still support same-sex marriage.
But then what straws will Chongo have left to grasp?
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Will Smith is a Germaphobe. He is afraid of Germans.
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Bush Tax Cuts == Job Killer
June 2001: 132,047,000 employed
June 2003: 129,839,000 employed
2.21 million jobs were LOST after 2 years of Bush Tax Cuts.
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Originally Posted by gradient
For the record, it's certainly possible to be homophobic yet still support same-sex marriage.
I highly doubt that
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Blandine Bureau 1940 - 2011
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Originally Posted by Athens
I highly doubt that
Politicians, or anyone else in the public eye, routinely lend their public support to legislation and/or campaigns of one type or another that they don't personally believe in for the sake of public image and career trajectory.
Aside from that, don't you believe that there are people out there who are able, despite their personal emotional reaction(s), to err on the side of logic and common sense/decency even if they never truly feel at peace with it? I think there are probably a lot of self-aware homophobes in the world who "feel" like homosexuality is wrong even though the logical part of their brain has deduced that it isn't.
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Originally Posted by Athens
I highly doubt that
It's easy if they hate marriage too
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Originally Posted by Uncle Skeleton
It's easy if they hate marriage too
Well played.
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Are the homosexuals who oppose same sex unions self loathing homophobes?
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45/47
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