[nvaughan3]

Originally posted by Millennium:

Actually, I did read the whole thread first. I just don't buy into Billy's lies.

Wonderful debate style you have there.

[Phanguye]

Originally posted by nvaughan3:



Wonderful debate style you have there.

ha the day anyone here posts with a decent debate style on these forums is the day i will......

well it doesnt matter b/c it is not going to happen

and for my debate style: fscking windows 98

[Thrax]

I thought that the mods were supposed to be better than us. Now we have one feeding the propaganda machine.

[Millennium]

Originally posted by Thrax:
I thought that the mods were supposed to be better than us. Now we have one feeding the propaganda machine.

I reiterate: I am not a moderator here. In fact, I specifically asked not to moderate here, precisely because this is a place where I can cut loose (relatively speaking, anyway). When I act in my official capacity (on the OSX and Third-Party Software forums), I keep it toned down and I don't go into this stuff. For me, the Lounge is... shall we say... cathartic.

However, I usually don't get this deeply into the flamewars, I will admit. However, I stand by my words. It is well-known that Microsoft has a long history of lying to the people. It is similarly well-known that the RIAA and MPAA are trying to mandate technology like Palladium through legislative channels. And it's also well-known that they've been working with Microsoft on this. Are you trying to tell me that two plus two equals five?

[Thrax]

Originally posted by Millennium:
It is well-known that Microsoft has a long history of lying to the people. It is similarly well-known that the RIAA and MPAA are trying to mandate technology like Palladium through legislative channels. And it's also well-known that they've been working with Microsoft on this. Are you trying to tell me that two plus two equals five?

Two plus two is still four.

However, Microsoft is not stupid enough to require almost everyone to buy new hardware just to use their new operating system.

It may very well be required to make copies of some (not all) files that have a habit of being freely "shared" without payment to their copyright holders, but this can already be done today without the help of Palladium.

[Millennium]

Originally posted by Thrax:
However, Microsoft is not stupid enough to require almost everyone to buy new hardware just to use their new operating system.

Oh, not overtly, no. You're right; Microsoft is not that stupid. If only they were.

No, they'll simply make it so that the experience is so horrific without it that you "have" to upgrade just to get a half-decent computing experience. And they'll do this the same way they've driven their empire since Day One: they make people think they have no other alternative. It's not true, but that's irrelevant as long as people think it's true.

Many people have accused Apple of doing exactly this with OSX. I don't tend to believe that Apple actually did it, but I concede that it's possible. Is it not, then, likewise possible for this to be the tactic Microsoft is taken? And given the tactics they've used in the past, does this not seem like the most probable scenario by a long shot?

[Millennium]

Originally posted by Thrax:
It may very well be required to make copies of some (not all) files that have a habit of being freely "shared" without payment to their copyright holders, but this can already be done today without the help of Palladium.

And another thing: that's not how Palladium works. Palladium isn't a copy-restricting system, you see; it's a use-restricting system. With Palladium on, you will not be able to make copies of these files at all. But without Palladium on, you won't be able to use these files at all. That's how it works; you trade in your fair-use rights in order to watch or listen to the file. Unethical in the extreme; it's basically throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

[Mediaman_12]

Originally posted by Thrax:
However, Microsoft is not stupid enough to require almost everyone to buy new hardware just to use their new operating system.

How many people do you know running XP (hapily) on older (or non upgraded) machines.............exactly.

The OS will come with the Palladium Machines. anyone else who wants to use the new OS will end up upgrading there PC's. Stick Palladium on the latest and gratest motherboards will have the upgraders lapping them up.

[Nimisys]

Originally posted by Mediaman_12:


How many people do you know running XP (hapily) on older (or non upgraded) machines.............exactly.

The OS will come with the Palladium Machines. anyone else who wants to use the new OS will end up upgrading there PC's. Stick Palladium on the latest and gratest motherboards will have the upgraders lapping them up.

define upgrade? i didn't have to do any upgrades in order to run XP.

[Deadline]

Win2k4 eh.. it looks the same as XP (duno about the kernel crap) but the gui is realitivly the same, except the start menu looks kinda bland and retarded.. they should take a lesson of two from apple.. now here are some people who know how to wright a nice OS and GUI! hehehehe

Deadline

[olePigeon]

Originally posted by sleepyrenderer:
All of those technologies/products currently run on hundreds of thousands of computers that aren't protected by Palladium -- they do not get hacked left and right.

What the heck planet do you live on?

Wow, you're on a roll here... more FUD. The current example we have of this technology is Windows XP Media Center Edition. It's copy protection mechanism is very simple. When you're recording broadcast TV if the content provider sends a code with the program you're watching it will be copy protected and you won't be able to transfer your DVD or digital video on your HDD to another computer. Currently less than 1% of TV programs are protected in this way, but that's besides the point. It in no way locks, videos you create (from your DV camera for instance), videos you download and burn, or any other sort of video except for that one case. And the simple way around that single case is to use third party DVR software (there are open source/freeware Win32 alternatives).

I didn't bring up anythything about the DVR, keeping that information secure is something that I agree with, but that is not the only feature of Media Center PCs. DVDs and CDs are localized to PCs that can run Windows Media Format (which is protected.) When you burn a DVD (say video from your camera) it is encoded in a protected Windows Media Format. After it's burned, you can't copy it, rip it, etc. The whole point behind the certificate process with Palladium is to circumvent "alternative" software that would otherwise let you burn a DVD in a standard format readable on any device not protected.

I don't know how far it's been implemented now, but eventually 3rd party software simply won't be an option unless it's certified.

Originally Microsoft intended for DVDs to run on that computer only, expecting it to be a exactly what they call it, a Media Center. People would replace their DVD players for the PC. When enough people were angry about it, they changed it to any device that supports Windows Media Format. Eventually Phillips is going to release a DVD player that supports Windows Media Format. I'm sure you've read the articles about the entire recording industry looking to adopt the format as well.

Yup, and just like I said, and from Microsoft's own mouth, everything you see in alpha screenshots are just placeholder art and technology tests -- the final will be radically different and will bear little or no resemblance to what you've seen.

I've provided what information I can based off that article. I haven't seen anything from Microsoft claiming the alpha screenshots are just placeholders. An occasional link from you other than insults would be helpful.

I don't think you were outright lying... I do think you're intentionally twisting every feature you've heard about into things they're not, putting the worst possible spin you can put on everything, to make Longhorn sound horrible, and in that respect I'd hope most people would ignore any 'facts' you post as transparent, baseless, Anti-MS negativity.

Again I've yet to see you post anything to support your objective. As I pointed out in my very first post, I already explained that I've pulled out some key features. I've already admittted to twisting the overall observation on Longhorn. Instead of posting something positive about it you proceeded to insult me and tell me it's all transparent, baseless, anti-ms negativity.

[CRASH HARDDRIVE]

Originally posted by Mediaman_12:


How many people do you know running XP (hapily) on older (or non upgraded) machines.............exactly.

What's an 'older' machine? WindowsXP Pro runs beautifully on a 900Mhz T-Bird I built in about April of 2000. In the PC world that's pretty old. I haven't seen that XP is that much more demanding than Windows 2000 (and frankly I don't want any hardware that can't run at least Win2k, there's no point.)

As for 'Longhorn', I've learned to just wait and pass judgement on these things when they actually arrive for my use.

EVERY single Microsoft OS- EVERY SINGLE one of them mind you- I've heard the exact same onslaught of bullcrap come down the pike before it was released.(And usually -just as now- from comp-novice boneheads.) It started with Win98 which one would have thought was the coming of the Anti-Christ to hear Mac users kavetch about it. (Hmmm.. come to think of it, having suffered through using Win98, they may have been right about that one.)

WinME- okay, well that one did suck too. But it wasn't the 'all your privacy will be gone' nightmare that comp-novice chicken little fooktards made it out to be. It sucked for other reasons though.

Then Win2000- that was going to steal your wallet, rape your spouse, drive off with your car, and take all the food out of your fridge for good measure. Once I actually used it, I found it rock stable and with virtually none of the FUD that every sky-is-falling weenie whined about before it came out.

WinXP- sheesh. The FUD that piled up before that came out was record breaking. Once more, after having used it, I find most of the inital pre-release 'sky is falling' FUD to be laughable.


And now it starts with Longhorn. THIS will finally be the one that really does cheat you out of house and home and report your every keystroke to the FBI. Sure.