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Zimwy · Dec 27, 2002, 07:39 PM

Okay, here's my plan. We have a house with 3 stories, a bunch of rooms per story. 1 ABS (Airport) used to cover most of the house. Now we got central air, the house is filled with metal ducting, airport signal makes it barely one floor. So, since the house is still being renovated, we can run ethernet wires. Basically what I'm asking, is will this work:

Run all the wires to a central place. Plug them all into a router. Plug a cable modem into the router (for internet access). Each one of the wires goes to a different room. Put a linksys wireless thing at the end of each wire, all with the same name. That should effectively share the internet connection, right? Am I missing anything?

Basically, I want the network to function the same as if we just had one base station, with NAT and DHCP on. Will this do that? Thanks a bunch!

Gabe

Angus_D · Dec 27, 2002, 07:51 PM

Don't see why not. Sounds expensive though

006 · Dec 27, 2002, 08:17 PM

That should work..

By router you mean hub.. Right? Or does your router have a built in hub?
Anyway; you should have all the ethernet cables terminating in a hub.. You the share your cable connection via your router.. And make sure that the router has DCHP (and NAT) enabled.

Also make sure that each LinkSys / ABS has the same NETWORK NAME (they should have different base names). This will give you roaming cababilities. So long as all the base stations are configured as peers (they have their built-in routers switched off), then your client machines should pick up their IP from the router and their connection from the base with the strongest signal.

If you were to keep the built-in routers on, you would have a double NAT network (which would work in theory), however because they would also broadcast DHCP, your machines would get very confused.

I have had this working with 30 ABS units and a couple of NetGear wireless gateways - works perfect!

One other tip when configuring the bases; give them STATIC IP addresses.. They can (and should) be NAT addresses, but if they are running off the DHCP broadcast from the router, I find that they sometimes forget to refresh their lease when it expires. That's just a pain!

John Strung · Dec 27, 2002, 09:49 PM

That would work, but if you are going to hardwire the house, why bother with wireless, which is slower, more expensive and less reliable?

Zimwy · Dec 28, 2002, 02:17 AM

Can you clarify the difference between a router and a hub? I think I'm still a little confused as to the technical differences. The thing that I have has 8 ethernet inputs, and one of them is the "uplink" one (I think it's called) where you can plug an internet connection into it and it'll share it with the rest. I don't really know much about it. I found it in a desk drawer and it works fine.
Oh, it shouldn't be too expensive. The ethernet wires won't be that much, I already have a router/hub (I don't know if it's both, or what), and then Linksys wireless things are $100 each, so one per floor is $400. That's not much more than 1 Airport Base station!

Do you guys recommend a different wireless access thing to go at the end of each ethernet wire? Also, any recommendations for routers and or hubs? I think I'll need either 4 or 8 ports.

Thanks for the replies!
Gabe

aaanorton · Dec 28, 2002, 01:37 PM

Are you planning on attaching a networked (not shared) printer to this network? If so, Linksys will not work. You will need a brand that bridges Appletalk to/from the wireless side.

Edit: AppleTalk would be the easiest way, but not the only way, to set this up.

thesearcher · Dec 28, 2002, 03:23 PM

Originally posted by Zimwy:

Oh, it shouldn't be too expensive. The ethernet wires won't be that much, I already have a router/hub (I don't know if it's both, or what), and then Linksys wireless things are $100 each, so one per floor is $400. That's not much more than 1 Airport Base station!

But why would you need wireless at all? Why not just wire ethernet cable to each room that could have a computer?

John Strung · Dec 28, 2002, 05:13 PM

What you have is a hub or switch. A router would have a WAN port and built in hardware and software to allow you to share an internet connection. Your hub (or swith) will let you file share, but not share an internet connection.

Which particular LinkSys boxes were you planning on getting?

solvent211 · Dec 28, 2002, 08:20 PM

Originally posted by Zimwy:
Can you clarify the difference between a router and a hub?

A router serves to direct (rout) traffic from one network to another. For example, you may have an internal "home" network (or LAN - Local Area Network) and connect in to the internet (or WAN - Wide Area Network). A router would be used to connect the two.

A hub, on the other hand, is more or less a glorified wire splitter. It allows you to connect multiple machines together. A switch is essentially a more sophisticated hub that enables full duplexing (simultaneous bi-directional communication) and increased performance over a simple hub.

Many home networking devices (linksys, netgear, etc) integrate the routing and switching functions into a single peice of hardware. You've likely got a router/switch combination if if provides a "WAN" port, some "LAN" ports and provides services such as DHCP and port forwarding.

Zimwy · Dec 28, 2002, 09:12 PM

Okay,
Thanks for all the responses!! It needs to be wireless because the people use all laptops, and it's just a much nicer thing to have. Also, we wont be able to run wires to every room. Here are the linksys wireless things I would get:

TADA

Any advice on routers/swtichers/hubs etc? Basically, here's what I'd like to do:

Cable Wire----->Cabe Modem----->Hub/Switch/Router----->Many ethernet wires---->Linksys thing at each end.

I can do this, right? No, we don't need to have a shared printer or anything like that. It might be nice at some later date though...
Thanks!

Gabe

aaanorton · Dec 29, 2002, 12:05 PM

Originally posted by Zimwy:
No, we don't need to have a shared printer or anything like that. It might be nice at some later date though...
Thanks!

Well, here's the deal... If you think that you may ever want to add a networked printer, I would recommend something other than Linksys. Linksys does not, and by all indications, will not, support AppleTalk to wireless connections.
I think I read on these forums recently that Netgear makes routers that handle AT. And, of course, all of Asante's wireless products (I own the FR3002AL) have full AppleTalk/Apple support.

Zimwy · Dec 29, 2002, 02:49 PM

Okay,
I'm checking out the Asante site now. Do you all know if I'll need both a router and a hub/switch, or are there good pieces of hardware with both in them. The one that I have now (It's buried away in some box that won't be able to be seen for around a month) has an "Uplink" ethernet port, and then 7 other ports. While I was at school, I plugged my dorm's ethernet cable into the uplink port, and then plugged two computers into two other ports and they could both get online. I didn't check to see what their IP addresses were, so I don't know if it was doing further DHCP, or NAT, or what. (School has a DCHP network).

Can anybody recommend a brand and or model of routers and or switches that I could look at? Thanks!

Gabe

Zimwy · Dec 29, 2002, 07:19 PM

Okay,
I found these Routers and Switches from the netgear website. There's one thing that confuses me. In the web page for the fs608 switch one has a diagram like:

And then rp614 router one has this:

What are the benefits etc. of the switch? Do I need one? What I want to do is basically the same as those diagrams, except for at the end of the ethernet wires, there'd be a wireless thing instead of a computer. Any help? Thanks,

Gabe

thesearcher · Dec 29, 2002, 10:42 PM

If you need more ports than are on the router (with switch built in), you would need to add another switch to it.

As for wireless devices at the end of the wires, have you determined if the Linksys wet11 can act as an access point? I suspect it can, but see the docs.

Also, see dslreports for info on networking gear.

Zimwy · Dec 30, 2002, 02:20 AM

Cool. So I really only need that router. I'm assuming that most routers have built in switches, am I right? I'm thinking of ditching the linksys wireless access point idea, because the idea of having a print server is sounding better and better. The netgear routers support Appletalk (according to previous posts here), so why then kill that support with linksys wireless access points which don't? Probably, I'll just get netgear access points. Does that sound like a good idea?

Does anyone know of any good print servers that are mac compatible? The one on the netgear site doesn't support macs. We don't have any computers that aren't laptops, and we're not about to go out and buy a computer just to connect the printer to.

Netgear is a good company, right?

Thanks again y'all for all the help.
Gabe

macmad · Dec 30, 2002, 03:39 AM

how about just putting a 'real' (external) antenna on your airport-base? I seem to remember seeing some mods for this, and the range gain is really significant.

Zimwy · Dec 30, 2002, 08:56 AM

Originally posted by macmad:
how about just putting a 'real' (external) antenna on your airport-base? I seem to remember seeing some mods for this, and the range gain is really significant.

I did hear that aswell. I would like to have the wired network in place as well for large file transfers. Also, the house this network is going in is 5 Stories tall, and 3 to 5 rooms deep, with many, many walls, all filled with metal now, in between. I don't want to mod the base station, and then find out that it still doesn't quite make it.

John Strung · Dec 30, 2002, 11:38 AM

You might have a look at THIS THREAD

I believe I read elsewhere (but can't put my finger on it) that some Netgear wireless devices support AppleTalk, but others do not, so you might want to be careful before ordering to make sure the ones you order do.

aaanorton · Dec 30, 2002, 04:11 PM

Many routers that claim to support AT, will only bridge it on the wired side, not wireless.
Also, if you do use the built-in printer port on (I'm pretty sure) any of these routers, you will not be able to use AT, as it will not be supported over the parallel port. You can easily, however, set up IP printing to these print servers.

John Strung · Dec 30, 2002, 04:20 PM

See also these two links for more info re Netgear routers and high gain antennae:

http://www.macintouch.com/wirelesslanreader11.html

http://www.macintouch.com/wirelesslanreader12.html

CyberGreg · Dec 30, 2002, 05:40 PM

Originally posted by Zimwy:
Okay,
Thanks for all the responses!! It needs to be wireless because the people use all laptops, and it's just a much nicer thing to have. Also, we wont be able to run wires to every room. Here are the linksys wireless things I would get:

TADA

Any advice on routers/swtichers/hubs etc? Basically, here's what I'd like to do:

Cable Wire----->Cabe Modem----->Hub/Switch/Router----->Many ethernet wires---->Linksys thing at each end.

I can do this, right? No, we don't need to have a shared printer or anything like that. It might be nice at some later date though...
Thanks!

Gabe

Gabe - your layout will work, just note that right after the cable modem must be a cable/dsl router, that will ensure all of the other connections work.

PS My feeling is go with LinkSys, it's quite inexpensive and I don't put much value on Appletalk. OS X and newer networked printers all work with IP so unless you have some old-dog slow Laserwriter that only works with Appletalk I wouldn't worry about it.

macmad · Dec 31, 2002, 04:11 AM

Airport base - fitting external antenna

Found a link!

instructions
more excellent airport stuff!

Zimwy · Jan 5, 2003, 01:01 PM

Okay, so basically my idea will work. I'm now just wondering what settings to use. If I set the router to manually assign a different IP address to each of the wireless access points, and each of those to then do DHCP, how will they know not to give computers IP addresses that are allready given to other access points... Does that make sense?

Thanks,
Gabe

ghporter · Jan 5, 2003, 02:09 PM

The basic idea is to have only one DHCP server on a network, preventing confusion between different servers-I accidentally had two servers running for a while, and it kept any of my clients from getting a good address.

What you want to do is use the router to do all of your DHCP. You DO NOT want to have the router assign addresses to your access points-how would you find them to configure them? You need to configure them to be access points (not bridges), and turn off their DHCP servers. On my Linksys access point, the SNMP settings have an option to enable the DHCP server, and another to select where the DHCP for wireless clients comes from-I have "ethernet" selected, meaning that my clients get their addresses from the router the access point is connected to.

Zimwy · Jan 8, 2003, 12:49 AM

So, now with the new airport extreme base stations, I guess I don't really have to run wires at all. These people are willing to spend around $800 to network the whole house, so I could just get 4 airport extremes, and they all have wireless bridging, right? Granted, the current airport cards that they have wouldn't be able to use the 54 mbs speed, but I don't think they transfer many files. Am I wrong?

Thanks,Gabe

Chaaaosss · Jan 10, 2003, 11:25 AM

You could also just get the $249 Airport Base Station which includes printer sharing and a place to put your antenna. Then add the Dr. Bott's ExtendAIR Direct Antenna which should give the Airport Base Station a range of something like 500 ft.

That might not give you enough range for the whole house... and it'd be $500, much more than you would have spent otherwise.

Damn, I just want someone to get one of these so I can see how well the range extenders work. I'm going to post this anyway.