[John123]

Someone had to start it, so I will.

I'm curious as to who has buyers' remorse. When I was watching the keynote in QuickTime and Jobs referenced the PowerBook's success, my heart started beating fast and I said (outloud), "Oh ****, they're gonna **** me." Naturally, when you pay $3000 for a computer and expect the company to follow its usual product cycles, this sort of news sends you into fits.

I even posted my 'Book up for sale on a Classified board. 17" screen. Cool. Bluetooth. Cool. Airport Extreme. Cool. I had to have it!!

Or do I? I took my classified post down. What you gain in screen size, Bluetooth, and Firewire 2, you lose in weight and portability, OS 9 bootability, rear jacks, and four generations of testing.

I'm still an OS 9er. I'm probably not the most tech person in the world, and for that reason, I despise the notion of going into the Terminal to take care of privileges. I enjoy the considerably faster performance I get from OS 9. And I don't use Bluetooth and my Airport is satisfactory.

Maybe I'll still sell my baby. After all, I would imagine that a PB with a gig of RAM and a base station and no dead pixels ought to fetch a reasonable price. But I'm not as bothered as I was 12 hours ago. The new 17" PowerBook isn't the perfect machine...I think of it now as different -- improved in some ways, but with clear tradeoffs.

What do other PB 1Ghz owners think?

[Eug]

12" 867 SD vs. keeping my 1 GHz SD.

Hard decision. The 12" was my original want last year, but since then I've gotten to like the 15". One thing though is I don't plan upgrading my phone to BlueTooth, and my PDA is three years old (and working fine). Plus the 12" CPU is somewhat slower, with no L3 cache, and the machine has no PCMCIA. PCMCIA lack was one thing that pissed me off about my 12" iBook.

OTOH, the 15" is less portable and more fragile.

I won't decide now. I wait until I can play with one in the store.

[Eug]

12" 867 SD vs. keeping my 1 GHz SD.

Hard decision. The 12" was my original want last year, but since then I've gotten to like the 15". One thing though is I don't plan upgrading my phone to BlueTooth, and my PDA is three years old (and working fine). Plus the 12" CPU is somewhat slower, with no L3 cache, and the machine has no PCMCIA. PCMCIA lack was one thing that pissed me off about my 12" iBook.

OTOH, the 15" is less portable and more fragile.

I won't decide now. I will wait until I can play with one in the store, but I'm starting to get the feeling I'm gonna stick with the 15".

Maybe.

[fetopher]

I bought a 1 Ghz Powerbook a week ago. I was able to take it down to the local Apple Store here and they gave me full credit back. Yep, thats $3000 that will go toward the new 17" when it arrives.
Im so happy.

[Rinpoche]

i agree. i think there are definite tradeoffs and personally, i'm quite happy and content with my 15 inch superdrive. i was watching the event this morning on quicktime (which had horrible quality btw lol), and i just caught the part where jobs mentioned this year being, 'the year of the notebook.' right then and there i knew something big was about to happen and lo and behold the 17" powerbook is introduced. i couldn't believe it!!! it looked awesome even when watching it on my choppy quicktime screen, and no doubt i was drooling the entire time. i was kind of pissed too, but after all is said and done, if i had to choose right now, i would still pick my 15" superdrive.

like many have already stated, the 17" is just a little too big. dont get me wrong it is really really nice..but carrying around a 17" as a laptop is too much. imagine how big and wide the case would have to be! i think it would be a perfect desktop replacement , but it seems a bit impractical as a true traveling laptop.

now if apple had put in a processor faster than a 1 ghz i would have been really really pissed!!!!!!! the 12 inch is nice as hell too! but i still like the 15 the best.

[John123]

Originally posted by Rinpoche:

now if apple had put in a processor faster than a 1 ghz i would have been really really pissed!!!!!!! the 12 inch is nice as hell too! but i still like the 15 the best.

Agreed. I think that PROBABLY, for me, a faster processor and further OS optimization in Panther is what it's gonna take to get me to jump. I am an old school Mac user who first learned System 6, and then used 7, 8, and 9. I grew accustomed to losing a little speed with each new OS, but the hardware kept pace.

I don't think that's the situation with 9 vs X, and doing stuff in, say, Microsoft Excel in X bugs the heck out of me! I could live with that dastardly Terminal app I guess, but combined with the speed, I'm just not ready.

That said, if a third party writes an OS 9 enabler..............

[thebunny]

I am keeping my 867 (with a dead pixel ). 12'' is too small and 17'' is too big (& expensive). The only thing I feel a bit cheated about is the lack of built in 802.11g & Bluetooth (someone please release a 802.11b Airport card replacement with those two built in!!!). Although those brushed Al cases look sleek (I always wondered why they painted the TiBook). I guess the next 15'' will be Al pretty soon now. Oh well...

And what's up with a different connector for the FireWire 800? That looks either like a *major* screw-up or a bad joke. How long is it before anyone releases a device that can only be connected to a *single* laptop in the whole wide world? Apple shot themselves in the foot I think. Whatever!

[TheIceMan]

Rinpoche: I agree COMPLETELY with you. 17" is too big to be carrying it around. Geez, I thought my 15" was big, can you imagine trying to find a case for that monster? Good luck. And even though it's made out of a stronger aircraft-grade aluminum (fancy wording), it still appears flimsy...my impressions.

John123: You hit the nail right on the head buddy! WHY-OH-WHY did Apple NOT introduce MORE horsepower? In my opinion, all they did was made the PowerBooks bigger & smaller and slapped some neat gadgets into it. Those who use BlueTooth, FireWire, & Airport will be happy with the upcoming models. But I would rather see a bump in GHz and RAM. What good is a Ferrari if you've got the engine of a Honda Civic running it? (An unfair and slight exagerration to make a point).

[StiZeven]

Actually, since I sent back my TiBook to Apple (for a full refund) last week (due to being fed up over several problems with the machine), I am now conveniently back in the buying market! I truly didn't believe Apple was going to update the PowerBooks so this was a shocker. This worked out perfectly for me - I guess I was meant to have one of the newer models!

Having said that, my biggest decision right now is, which one? Very tough decision. I REALLY wish that backlit keyboard was in 12" model too. I am leaning towards the 12" one since I really always liked the iBook size (but not the white look or the G3). Now here is a mini PowerBook that's smaller and lighter than the iBook and more powerful. Also, the Combo Drive (I still have no use for a SuperDrive) in the new PowerBook (12") burns CDRs at 24X! You also have the option to throw a 60GB hard drive in there as well. The BlueTooth and AirPort Extreme (with the antennas finally in the tips of the display) are a nice touch as well. I love that the ports are on the side so there is no more fussing with that back door and feeling around for ports. Also, this new Aluminum Alloy shell claims to be more scratch and smudge resistant over the TiBook. Its unified body looks more durable to (hinges, display, etc.).

If I do go with the 12", I doubt very much I'll notice the 133MHz decrease or the memory reduction. I never noticed the difference when I had the TiBook on power save speed - not sure about the memory though. I think the 17" model is awesome, but might be a bit too big (for me). I wish they would have made a 15" version with everything the 17" model has, just with a smaller screen/chassis. Perhaps the next update will bring the 15" version to the current model design/spec.

[thebunny]

Yeah, another thing: Isn't a GeForce4 Go just a glorified GeForce2 and the Radeon is one generation newer? I remember Anandtech.com did some benchmarks this summer and Radeon 9000 beat the GeForce4 440 by a very healthy margin (Dell laptop mind you - they can change video cards - mini PCI slot). Dell also charges extra for a Radeon 9000 over a GF4 440 Go... I think the 17'' buyers might really want the Radeon 9000

This Safari thing just screams :O

[thebunny]

OK, I am thaking back that Radeon 9000 being faster than GF4 Go rant - I just found the actual review and I remebered wrongly. Opps

[mmurray]

Originally posted by StiZeven:
If I do go with the 12", I doubt very much I'll notice the 133MHz decrease or the memory reduction. I never noticed the difference when I had the TiBook on power save speed - not sure about the memory though.

What about the lack of L3 cache. I am no expert -
do others think this is an issue ?

Michael

[buffalolee]

What I really care for is this:

- The aluminum casing where there is no paint to chip off.

- Back light keyboard (so cool!)

- Side ports. I am annoyed at flipping the ports in the back open/close to add my usb peripheral and disconnecting.

[thebunny]

No, another correction (it is getting late!). Radeon 9000 does smoke the GeForce4 440 Go. Here's the link:

<http://www.anandtech.com/showdoc.htm...01082003015410>

Cheers!

[MilesWho]

I got my tisd just before New Year's, so it was slightly nauseating to see two new models come out today.

Would I get the new 17 inch model? Sure. But these new books have now given me something new to drool about - the potential release (???) of a 15 inch Auminum powerbook with the features released today (and maybe a speed/memory/hard drive/only god (Steve) knows what else bump). I'd get the 15 inch aluminum before the 17 incher in a heartbeat. But then it probably won't be too long after that when we see the new G4 or maybe the 970 in these books. Naturally, this is all speculation, but my point is that many of the future revisions we can speculate on ALL look very appealing. New, powerful chips in the pipeline, a new, improved form factor, prices which are getting lower by the quarter, cutting edge innovation...what's not to like? And if this is the year of the portable, I wonder what else Steve has up his sleeve.

All in all, I still love my 15 inch Tibook. But, more importantly, I am excited by the life which seems to have been reinfused within the Apple community. With the last two book releases (which both exceeded most of our expectations), and the promise of a new (Godsend) chip in 2003, I have the general sense that Apple is gaining momentum. As someone who cheers for the platform, I can't help but feel optimistic about the remainder of 2003. I can't wait to see what this year holds...

[TiSteve]

Having received and started using the Ti SuperDrive Pb, there is no way that I would "upgrade" to the AlBook....12 or 17inch.

Of course, if the last release of the TiBook had been shelved with the upcoming release of the AlBook, then I would have went with the AlBook....though would have preferred a 15 in model over a 17in model.

Given that so many people jumped at the latest TiBook, I really dont believe that the AlBook will have the same initial sales impact. Here's hoping that a new breed of switchers prove me wrong.

As for me, I have no problems waiting and letting this new model mature, letting other people go thru the new model blues, and when it gets the new processor... I'll be back.

[dreilly1]

I was so afraid that my wife, who just got a Gigabook last month, would freak out about the new powerbooks, especially when I gave my Certified Mac Rumour Expert Opinion that there would be no new laptops in January, and that a December purchase would be safe.

I was quite pleased to find out that she considers the 17" too big, and the 12" too small... the Gigabook is still Just Right for her.

The only thing she regrets is the fact that the new 'books supposedly have better AirPort reception. But even if she were looking to buy today, she'd probably still get a 15" due to the form factor.

The fact that the price of the 15" went down $200 is somewhat suprising, though. I need to look at my Credit Card and see if it has a Price Protection policy.... Still, spending $200 more is worth having the Gigabook over the holidays.... really it is....

I have a little more remorse over the fact that the 800 MHz 12" iBook that I recently got isn't the best 12" laptop I can buy anymore... I really like that form factor, and might have ponied up the extra dough to get one with a G4 in it.

[William_F_House]

I've a Tibook (1Ghz/1gig) that's about a month old. It's going to my wife to replace her Tibook 500. I'm ordering an Albook 17" in the next week or so.

I've got a 22" Cinema Display connected to a G4 400 (via Gefen DVI-ADC adapter) that never gets used (we're wireless all over the house now). So, with a 17" screen, I'm ready to say goodbye to desktops forever. I can do all my video editing on a 17". If I feel I can't live without the real estate of something bigger, I'll pick up a 23" Cinema Display or the next gen at some point in the future.

(Incidentallly, if anyone is interested in the Cinema Display or G4, fire me an email. The former is new condition with the orginal box.)

[one09jason]

I'm actually very happy with my GHz Ti, despite the new models. My timing on the upgrade cycle for Macs has been such that I end up buying the new designs as they come out, and I've been burned several times. When they upgrade the new casings with cooler more effecient processors and work out all the bugs that the new models no doubt have, I will be just about ready to buy again (about a year or so).

Perfect - I see what's coming and I like it a lot.

[Freeflyer]

I'm more than happy with my tibook still.

airport extreme: not going to make a difference with a dsl connection at home.
17" screen. will make it a bugger to carry, and it wouldn't fit in my backpack.
It's no faster, and I won't see any performance increase.
Firewire 800: not going to make a big difference to me, I'm only likely to plug in an external hard drive or a video cam.

So, the only thing that I'd like to see on my Tibook is the ultra cool lighted keyboard and auto lightsensing. That's a brilliant piece of work, and I wish I could fit it to my book. Guess I'm just going to have to get a flylight.

So no, I'm not annoyed, and I'm not going to sell what I have.

Cheers,

J.

[photoeditor]

The lack of a Level 3 cache in the 12 inch Powerbook will generally slow the computer down somewhat, but especially in applications that use the L3 cache heavily. The most prominent current example of that is Virtual PC, the new version of which specifically uses the L3 cache to help address long standing speed problems in OS X.

Generally, it seems to me that heftier applications have benefited from more cache.

And I guess I won't sell my 1GHz Powerbook, though going down to the 12 inch Powerbook is an intriguing thought -- especially if I decide I don't need Virtual PC. I have to say that if this had been the lineup two months ago, there's no question I'd have bought the 12 inch, but now the bigger screen has spoiled me somewhat. Upgrading to 1GB RAM for $40 was nice too; but the fan noise is objectionable.

[Biggerfoot]

I was also upsept with the new Powerbooks, however, I now feel better. Here is what made me feel better:

The 12" PowerBook doesn't have a PC card.

Also, the 15" PowerBook supports type I and II PC Cards while the 17" model only supports type II cards.

Type I cards are like the compact flash adapters and any sort of flash memory cards. Type II cards are the modems, LAN adapters, and those sorts of devices that are traditionally considered as "normal" PC Card devices.

[icruise]

I don't have a Tibook, but in a way I think that makes me closer to the group that Apple was targeting with these releases. They are trying to attract new buyers (whether they be switchers, or just people who thought the current lineup was too limited). By increasing the variety of portables available, they now have something for almost everyone. Admittedly there is still nothing in the true subnotebook class (sub 3 lbs) but the 12" powerbook is probably as close as we are likely to get, and it is the smallest portable Apple has ever put out.

If I had to sit down and design the perfect Apple notebook for me, the 12" powerbook would not be far off. I really wanted something smaller and lighter than the ibook (ok, so it's not a lot smaller, but it is smaller), a G4 and something different from the (IMO) awful painted titanium casing of the previous models. Why have a metal laptop if you are going to paint it? That annodized alumnium looks fantastic! I just hope it doesn't scratch too easily -- I don't want my powerbook to look like the back of my ipod.

My only disappointment (aside from the 12" not having firewire 800 or backlit keyboard like I thought at first) is the lack of a PC card slot. But even that only really mattered when I wanted to use one of the wireless modem cards they have here in Japan, and since I will be moving back to the US within the year, it isn't that big of a deal. Overall, very excited. I'm pretty sure I'm going to sell my Pismo to get one.

[Eug]

Originally posted by Biggerfoot:
I was also upsept with the new Powerbooks, however, I now feel better. Here is what made me feel better:

The 12" PowerBook doesn't have a PC card.

Also, the 15" PowerBook supports type I and II PC Cards while the 17" model only supports type II cards.

Type I cards are like the compact flash adapters and any sort of flash memory cards. Type II cards are the modems, LAN adapters, and those sorts of devices that are traditionally considered as "normal" PC Card devices.

I still think that's a typo. AFAIK, Type II slots are backwards compatible to Type I. It's just the size that different, with Type II slots being able to house thicker cards.

Anyways, the 17" was NEVER a consideration for me. When they announced it, it was "Ho hum, whatever." But then they announced the 12".... That's what I had previously annoyed me with the iBook.

I wonder when the 15" AluBook will be making its appearance.

Personally, maybe I should hold out for a PPC970 ?book, since I have the 15" TiBook SD, which is the fastest 15" Mac on the market.

P.S. I also happen to like having the ports on the back and the SD on the front, but those are minor issues. What I don't like is the hinge on the back of the 15" obsuring access to the network jack, and the flap does seem a bit flimsy, even if it looks nice.

[jhunt5247]

Originally posted by Eug:
12" 867 SD vs. keeping my 1 GHz SD.

OTOH, the 15" is less portable and more fragile.

I won't decide now. I wait until I can play with one in the store.

Same boat. The 12" looks very nice. I don't like the idea of no L3 cache though. Also, like Eug said, the 12" is more portable and less fragile. I like that idea.

As well I don't like the limit of memory to 768MB on the 12". I use a gig of memory on the 15" and everything is smooth, and I would like to keep it that way, so again the drop in speed is another factor to think about.

Touch call, so I will have to wait until CompUSA gets one in their store so I can play around with it a bit.

[icruise]

Actually, the limit is 640MB on the 12" model. But I believe 640 really is enough for everyone but the most demanding pro. I've used 576 for a couple of years and I don't think 1GB would have made things any different. I don't get a lot of pageouts or anything, and I use quite a few apps at the same time.

[CheesePuff]

Great, the 12" and 17" owners get great AirPort while us 15" users get horrible reception.

[Cellery]

I'm keeping my SD TiBook, mainly because Apple finally worked out the kinks in the design and because I've gotten bad machines in the past when I've bought the first revision of the PowerBook. Also, I waited over a month for this to arrive, and don't want to wait another 2 for the 17" to ship. It's disappointing that they stopped using the Radeon 9000, as I'm an ATI fan. Now if they had bumped the processor specs a bit yesterday I'd be shelling out $3300. Current 15" owners aren't getting hosed as much this time, I remember buying a 667 MHz TiBook last year and having the Combo drive models come out one month later.

[John123]

Originally posted by Cellery:
I'm keeping my SD TiBook, mainly because Apple finally worked out the kinks in the design and because I've gotten bad machines in the past when I've bought the first revision of the PowerBook. Also, I waited over a month for this to arrive, and don't want to wait another 2 for the 17" to ship. It's disappointing that they stopped using the Radeon 9000, as I'm an ATI fan. Now if they had bumped the processor specs a bit yesterday I'd be shelling out $3300. Current 15" owners aren't getting hosed as much this time, I remember buying a 667 MHz TiBook last year and having the Combo drive models come out one month later.

Yeah, I bought a 550 at the time, thinking, "No way! Apple goes on 6-9 month product cycles, and this thing isn't even a month old. Perfect!"

I bought a 1Ghz this time, thinking, "Hey, they still use 6-9 month product cycles, and my experience last time was an aberration just cuz they couldn't get combo drives in time. It's not even a month after they started shipping these babies. Perfect!"

So, basically, what I am saying is that the next time I buy an Apple product, the rest of you should fasten your seatbelts and get ready for a revision!

[fibroptikl]

While I'm not remorsing about the 1Ghz PowerBook; cause I don't own one - I did buy an iBook G3 800 / 12.1 / 640MB on November 20th.

I can't say I'm remorsing over the purchase because I am a new Apple user; and I'm not really impressed. Mainly because I use PC's for school 17/18 (I get a Mac Quarter). I'm not using a laptop; let alone a Mac as much as I do.

Even so I'd like to own a 12" PowerBook; I probably would have never spent that amount of money on it, let alone ever used it anymore than I did with this iBook.

[Eug]

Originally posted by CheesePuff:
Great, the 12" and 17" owners get great AirPort while us 15" users get horrible reception.

Actually, I get pretty good reception with my TiBook.

But then again, I'm usually only one floor down.

Re: 640 RAM. I wonder how much is necessary for Final Cut Express.

The only time I paged out with 640 on my iBook was when I was running VPC with other apps open (384 MB allocated to PC).

[vsurfer]

Would guess most 15" Ti ghz'ers had calculated size they wanted to lug around before dropping 3-4 G's

12 in too small for moi
15 in way to big to commute with, 'specially on commuter trains and in steel-beamed subway stations

Even the 15 in felt wide already on the train, and as for the extra 2 inches and 1.8 lbs. fuggeddahboudit~!


-----
The only thing that bummmzmeout-- the better airport reception. My dawg says "Grrrr," Apple howzabout an airport card upgrade or summint for us who purchased in Q4 when ya needed us most?"

[innerimager]

No regrets. well very little. Firstly, the 1Ghz SD is a great machine. Then, I wanted an external monitor, even if I got a 17" for a dual monitor photo editing station. The $400 rebate I got getting the 17" LCD with the powerbook is not being offered now. Then there was the free (nearly) Ram upgrade. So, that's a big price difference, especially for no processor speed bump. I'll be quite happy till the machines are 2X or more faster, then I'll upgrade....Peter

[Superchicken]

While I don't own a PB I REALLy want one. Before I used to think of power book users as having WAY to much money and couldn't see how anyone could justify the cost.but with the 12 inchers I'm seriously trying to see how I can raise the cash I need for a 12 inch 800Mhz... although it'll prolly be 1Ghz by the time I buy, iBook and add that to more cash for the power book. I don't need a super drive.. although it'd be nice bragging rights... my main concern is that when I bought my iMac I was really frustrated after when I saw the cool Power Mac stuff you could still do with the Yosemite I coulda gotten my parents to buy me, becuase I got what was "Good enough" at the time. Now I'm thinking 1Ghz G3 would satisify me for a long time... but what about in three years will I be hardware lusting as bad as I am now?
At least if I've got a POWER Book I could at least say it's a power book and snuff my nose at iBook owners... ok no I couldn't but... if Apple doesn't update the iBooks like I want em to... like it looks like they're planning... then I think that these Power Books might be my choise... if I can afford it... if apple wants to feel really kind hearted they could always drop the price a few hundred

Or I could always pick one up used

[Thorts]

I purchased a SuperTiBook in November, and when the new AlBooks came out, my screen suddenly seemed bigger (and brighter). I cannot imagine having the 17"er on my lap (can't see the TV over the top of it!) and the extra Airport range is not an issue for me. It a complete desktop replacement. If I had the chance today, I would re-purchase my 15" TiBook again without hesitation.....for $200 less, though...javascript:smilie('')

I also can't wait for the great Safari to be finalized. Great start. Send in your suggestions to Apple for the final version.

[I Have Questions]

Just call me Goldilocks...

Ohhh, that 17" is too big!
Awww, that 12" is too small!
Ahhh, my 15" is just right!

If I were buying today, I'd get the same machine. Of course, it would be $200 less, but I also got 512 MB of RAM for $40, so the old deal was still cheaper!

[itai195]

Originally posted by John123:
Yeah, I bought a 550 at the time, thinking, "No way! Apple goes on 6-9 month product cycles, and this thing isn't even a month old. Perfect!"

I bought a 1Ghz this time, thinking, "Hey, they still use 6-9 month product cycles, and my experience last time was an aberration just cuz they couldn't get combo drives in time. It's not even a month after they started shipping these babies. Perfect!"

The only truly safe time to buy an Apple product is when it's announced at Macworld... Nonetheless, I felt pangs of jealousy after buying my 500MHz TiBook when the 550/667 revision came out even though that was 8 months later.