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simonmartin · Mar 3, 2003, 04:43 PM

Hi,

A friend of mine has insane amounts of hassle and problems with her Macs, a 450 MHZ Blue and white and a new iBook.

Both her computers lock up, the screens go weird, breaking up 'into thousands of segments' etc etc.

I have had a look at them, she brought them to my house, miles away from her place, and I can't find a single problem with either of them.

I have just re-installed the OS right from scratch and everything was running great at my house.

The next day she called to say that the iBook had locked up after five minutes use. I had it running without a hitch for several hours at my place.

I live just out of London and she lives in the center. The Tube runs right underneath her flat and there is a bus stop right outside her front door.

Can her location be affecting her computers? I'm thinking massive amounts of electricity in the Tube...

Clutching at straws perhaps...

Opinions please.

Simon

Scotttheking · Mar 3, 2003, 07:07 PM

I'd guess it's electricity related.
Make sure she's on a GOOD surge suppressor, or even better, either a line conditioner + suppressor, or a UPS (battery backup).

macvillage.net · Mar 3, 2003, 07:33 PM

Originally posted by Scotttheking:
I'd guess it's electricity related.
Make sure she's on a GOOD surge suppressor, or even better, either a line conditioner + suppressor, or a UPS (battery backup).

UPS in those situations can be bad (it just goes on/off constantly).. not harmful bad... but it beeps each time... making a person go mad.

niji · Mar 3, 2003, 08:24 PM

i would not think this is a power supply issue at first.
what it does sound like is the video card, or, some sort of screen display controller is not functioning properly.
as regards it happening when at her location, but not yrs, that is by chance; she uses it more at her location than the time it is at yrs temporarily.
there are no gremlins in macs. if there were, the apple store would be sure to charge more $$$ for them.

Cipher13 · Mar 4, 2003, 02:43 AM

Originally posted by niji:
i would not think this is a power supply issue at first.
what it does sound like is the video card, or, some sort of screen display controller is not functioning properly.
as regards it happening when at her location, but not yrs, that is by chance; she uses it more at her location than the time it is at yrs temporarily.
there are no gremlins in macs. if there were, the apple store would be sure to charge more $$$ for them.

You could be right about the time thing - it may just seem very common at her place cause it's there more.

But as for your gremlin comment...

I'd put it down to the Tube. How do her televisions react? External antennae? Etc...

carnagex2000 · Mar 4, 2003, 04:30 AM

LOLWhat you should do is check her power (outlet) for a steady current. Power fluctuation can kill your mac. (since she's near the Tube, that might be the problem) If all else fails, you could wrap her computer up in aluminum foil, and wrap up her head as well, you never know, Microsoft might be trying to take over her mind so she dislikes Apple.

LOL

(also check your PM)

simonmartin · Mar 4, 2003, 04:48 AM

Originally posted by Scotttheking:
I'd guess it's electricity related.
Make sure she's on a GOOD surge suppressor, or even better, either a line conditioner + suppressor, or a UPS (battery backup).

Scotttheking, and others,

Thanks for the suggestions.

As far as the power supply issues go, I have a feeling that the iBook missbehaves even when running on its battery. As for video card issues, what are the chances of this problem happening to two boxes at the same time?

I'll ask if things go wrong when running on the iBook battery and report back.

carnagex2000, how thick should the foil be?

Thanks

Simon

D'Espice · Mar 4, 2003, 10:52 AM

That's interesting and you might want to know that the very same thing happened to a friend of mine, too.

A couple of months back we went shopping for a new PC (spending limit was EUR 600,- therefore Mac was not an option). We bought all the parts and headed back to my place to assemble the PC, install the OS, applications and stuff.
Everything was running just fine, no crashes whatsoever. In the evening he took his new PC home and called about two hours later that it was crashing all the time and giving him a major headache. He couldn't even use it for more then 15 minutes non-stop without it crashing. Because it was late at night we decided that I'll stop by next day to take a look and he was right, Windows sometimes even didn't boot, the PC would crash immediately. So I took it back again to my place to have a closer look and all of a sudden, everything was fine and I had not a single crash all day. Went back to his place in the evening, and again Windows didn't even boot.

We tried moving the computer around in his appartment and finally found a spot where it was running just fine and still is. Oh, in case it matters, he also lives in the city (pretty much Munich Downtown), he has the subway right underneath his appartment and he lives on the second floor. We took the PC up to his neighbor one day, fourth floor, and it was running fine everywhere we tried. So we figured it's gotta be the subway. I live few yards outside of Munich and have a bus stop in front of my house but the subway is about a mile away from my place. Maybe a better shielded enclosure would have also solved the problem, we never tried.

simonmartin · Mar 4, 2003, 11:15 AM

Originally posted by D'Espice:
That's interesting and you might want to know that the very same thing happened to a friend of mine, too.

A couple of months back we went shopping for a new PC (spending limit was EUR 600,- therefore Mac was not an option). We bought all the parts and headed back to my place to assemble the PC, install the OS, applications and stuff.
Everything was running just fine, no crashes whatsoever. In the evening he took his new PC home and called about two hours later that it was crashing all the time and giving him a major headache. He couldn't even use it for more then 15 minutes non-stop without it crashing. Because it was late at night we decided that I'll stop by next day to take a look and he was right, Windows sometimes even didn't boot, the PC would crash immediately. So I took it back again to my place to have a closer look and all of a sudden, everything was fine and I had not a single crash all day. Went back to his place in the evening, and again Windows didn't even boot.

We tried moving the computer around in his appartment and finally found a spot where it was running just fine and still is. Oh, in case it matters, he also lives in the city (pretty much Munich Downtown), he has the subway right underneath his appartment and he lives on the second floor. We took the PC up to his neighbor one day, fourth floor, and it was running fine everywhere we tried. So we figured it's gotta be the subway. I live few yards outside of Munich and have a bus stop in front of my house but the subway is about a mile away from my place. Maybe a better shielded enclosure would have also solved the problem, we never tried.

D'Espice,

That's absolutely incredible. Exactly the same circumstances and everything...

Ok, that's a start to finding a solution.

Many thanks indeed.

At least I'm not going completely mad...

Simon

Cipher13 · Mar 5, 2003, 08:03 AM

Originally posted by simonmartin:
Scotttheking, and others,

Thanks for the suggestions.

As far as the power supply issues go, I have a feeling that the iBook missbehaves even when running on its battery. As for video card issues, what are the chances of this problem happening to two boxes at the same time?

I'll ask if things go wrong when running on the iBook battery and report back.

carnagex2000, how thick should the foil be?

Thanks

Simon

Doesn't matter if it isn't plugged in - it's more the electromagnetic radiation.

In all seriousness, the foil thing could work

Except with lead, maybe.

Scotttheking · Mar 5, 2003, 08:22 AM

OOOH.

Tube = electric subway!

Yup, you are screwed.

It's creating a powerful electromagnetic field that is messing with the computer.
Invest in lead. Lots of lead.

freakboy2 · Mar 5, 2003, 02:54 PM

I think that the previous posters have some good points. A really good surge protector might help keep the computer from getting fried, but she'll need a ups to regulate the power. Does it crash when she's on the battery?

It's possible that the magnetic fields from the tube are crashing her computer by causing the electrons in it to freak out, but that's unlikely.

On the safe side she should do this:

http://www.straightdope.com/columns/000609.html

Fb2

simonmartin · Mar 5, 2003, 03:03 PM

Originally posted by freakboy2:
I think that the previous posters have some good points. A really good surge protector might help keep the computer from getting fried, but she'll need a ups to regulate the power. Does it crash when she's on the battery?

It's possible that the magnetic fields from the tube are crashing her computer by causing the electrons in it to freak out, but that's unlikely.

On the safe side she should do this:

http://www.straightdope.com/columns/000609.html

Fb2

freakboy2,

Things still seem to be funky on the battery as well although it makes a difference if she moves around the flat with the iBook.

I'll send her the link, good advice.

Simon

Taipan · Mar 5, 2003, 09:43 PM

Hmm, if the electromagnetic field can have such an effect, I wonder if it's good for people's health...

simonmartin · Mar 6, 2003, 05:21 AM

Originally posted by Taipan:
Hmm, if the electromagnetic field can have such an effect, I wonder if it's good for people's health...

Taipan,

That's what we were thinking. Can't be good for you...

Simon

Cipher13 · Mar 6, 2003, 07:55 AM

It *IS* the EMR, I'm telling you now... I'd put money on it.

simonmartin · Mar 6, 2003, 07:58 AM

Originally posted by Cipher13:
It *IS* the EMR, I'm telling you now... I'd put money on it.

Cipher13,

Agreed. Just have to find a practical solution to the prob.

... and enough tin foil...

Simon

Panzer · Mar 6, 2003, 11:05 AM

Originally posted by simonmartin:
Cipher13,

Agreed. Just have to find a practical solution to the prob.

... and enough tin foil...

Simon

Line the floors with lead plating...or encase the computer(s) and possibly operator in one of these:
http://www.zipmall.com/emfshield/default.htm

I had a friend who had a vibrating image on his monitor because of this same problem, large power lines nearby. He ended up being able to switch apartments because of his screen issues and was fine when he was away from the power wires.

simonmartin · Mar 6, 2003, 11:16 AM

Originally posted by Panzer:
Line the floors with lead plating...or encase the computer(s) and possibly operator in one of these:
http://www.zipmall.com/emfshield/default.htm

I had a friend who had a vibrating image on his monitor because of this same problem, large power lines nearby. He ended up being able to switch apartments because of his screen issues and was fine when he was away from the power wires.

Panzer,

Thanks for the link, I'll pass it on to my friend.

Do you happen to know if they sell those things with a floral pattern at all?

I was thinking an old suit of armour would do the job and have a certain 'gravitas' about it. Cyber-warrior type of thing...

Thanks again.

Simon

*Mhz · Mar 7, 2003, 04:02 AM

Originally posted by simonmartin:
Panzer,

Thanks for the link, I'll pass it on to my friend.

Do you happen to know if they sell those things with a floral pattern at all?

I was thinking an old suit of armour would do the job and have a certain 'gravitas' about it. Cyber-warrior type of thing...

Thanks again.

Simon

Is there any industry nearby? Big electric motors affect the current much. The subway trains have such and I think that is the problem. I'd just go with the ups-system and try to disable the beeper. EMF is 1/r^2 kind of field and even in the second floor the effect shouldn't be that big.

You mentioned that the computer runs well on battery power. In the apartment the field would have similar effect on the computer even on battery power if it was a question of EMF. In some old houses the powerlines are made poorly and even the refrigerators compressors turn on dims the lights in whole apartment. I have measured in some places short breaks in power outlets because of inductive load. They are so short that most equipment doesn't even notice them but sophisticated systems go mad. From few milliseconds to twenty.

Cipher13 · Mar 7, 2003, 10:35 AM

Originally posted by *Mhz:
Is there any industry nearby? Big electric motors affect the current much. The subway trains have such and I think that is the problem. I'd just go with the ups-system and try to disable the beeper. EMF is 1/r^2 kind of field and even in the second floor the effect shouldn't be that big.

You mentioned that the computer runs well on battery power. In the apartment the field would have similar effect on the computer even on battery power if it was a question of EMF. In some old houses the powerlines are made poorly and even the refrigerators compressors turn on dims the lights in whole apartment. I have measured in some places short breaks in power outlets because of inductive load. They are so short that most equipment doesn't even notice them but sophisticated systems go mad. From few milliseconds to twenty.

Actually, he said it plays up even on battery, which largely discounts inconsistent power.

It's the EMR from the Tube. I'd suggest a lead paint, but... I guess health is a concern eh?

You honestly could build a simple faraday cage, but that's an unrealistic option with a laptop. Fine for a tower, albeit a pain in the ass...

Scotttheking · Mar 7, 2003, 11:09 AM

Originally posted by Cipher13:
You honestly could build a simple faraday cage, but that's an unrealistic option with a laptop. Fine for a tower, albeit a pain in the ass...

Tibooks come with them naturally!

OreoCookie · Mar 7, 2003, 02:10 PM

Originally posted by macvillage.net:
UPS in those situations can be bad (it just goes on/off constantly).. not harmful bad... but it beeps each time... making a person go mad.

You can always adjust the warning level. A UPS is a must have for a computer owner. My best friend fried two (read: two 8500) (lightning ...).