[imaxxedout]

http://www.cnyroadrace.com/scca/results/98solo8.html


Neon wins!

MUHahHAhahAhahahHA

- $

[Zimphire]

[nsxpower]

1. I've looked over the page and I only saw a Plymoth Neon (not really a proper Neon as everydody knows, the real ones are made by Dodge HAHAHAHA!) and it seemed to place 7th not 1st.

2. And that makes you feel better because ... ?

3. A Neon will always be a Neon ...

4. Get yourself a better car. I personally sudgest (from experience) ITR, CTR (not avaliable in the US), GTI, M3 ... the list goes on.

[Zimphire]

Originally posted by nsxpower:
1. I've looked over the page and I only saw a Plymoth Neon (not really a proper Neon as everydody knows, the real ones are made by Dodge HAHAHAHA!)

3. A Neon will always be a Neon ...

Of Course, any car will always be the car it is...

4. Get yourself a better car. I personally sudgest (from experience) ITR, CTR (not avaliable in the US), GTI, M3 ... the list goes on.

Why? I enjoy what I drive, and how much I payed for it.

[imaxxedout]

Originally posted by nsxpower:
1. I've looked over the page and I only saw a Plymoth Neon (not really a proper Neon as everydody knows, the real ones are made by Dodge HAHAHAHA!) and it seemed to place 7th not 1st.

2. And that makes you feel better because ... ?

3. A Neon will always be a Neon ...

4. Get yourself a better car. I personally sudgest (from experience) ITR, CTR (not avaliable in the US), GTI, M3 ... the list goes on.

Response 1: can you not read? The neon is in 1st.
Response 2: it's funny. Japanese exotics getting rocked by a neon.
Response 3: Okay?
Response 4: I don't have a neon, I just like them. Considering that a neon ACR schooled a twin turbo RX7, I think they'r great cars. You're an ignorant fool. Enjoy!

- Ca$h

[nsxpower]

I enjoy what I drive

And thats what matters. I've driven quote a few Neons (as rentals) and do not have anything to say abtout them ... besides the bad things, of course.

There is a Plymoth Neon, Dondge Neon and Chrysler Neon ... and the difference is? besides the price tag, of course. It was meant to be a sarcam, but some people are a little thick even with plenty of "HAHAHA" after one.

Of Course, any car will always be the car it is...

Really? Why thank you for clarifying it for me, I was not sure. I sudgest you paint a racing stripe on yours - they say it makes it go faster.

[Zimphire]

Originally posted by nsxpower:
And thats what matters. I've driven quote a few Neons (as rentals) and do not have anything to say abtout them ... besides the bad things, of course.

Most any rental car sucks, They all get beat to death.

There is a Plymoth Neon, Dondge Neon and Chrysler Neon ... and the difference is? besides the price tag, of course. It was meant to be a sarcam, but some people are a little thick even with plenty of "HAHAHA" after one.

Point was, there were Plymouth AND Dodge Neons on that page, and they are the same car, different badging.

Really? Why thank you for clarifying it for me, I was not sure. I sudgest you paint a racing stripe on yours - they say it makes it go faster.

It only makes it go faster if it's factory stripes.

[Eug]

I've driven a few rental Neons myself and OMG I hated them. I even like the Corolla rentals better, and I don't like Corollas either.

By the way, a crap car with a fast engine is still a crap car.

[nsxpower]

Response 1: can you not read? The neon is in 1st.
Response 2: it's funny. Japanese exotics getting rocked by a neon.
Response 3: Okay?
Response 4: I don't have a neon, I just like them. Considering that a neon ACR schooled a twin turbo RX7, I think they'r great cars. You're an ignorant fool. Enjoy!

1. I take that back.
2. I do not consider any of the cars that participated in the meet exotics, except for the more vintage cars and the Alfa. Where did you find an Alfa in the US?
SCCA Solo II events favour FF cars, thus the mediocre performance of perhaps higher powered FR cars is understandable. It could also be the skill level of the drivers involved.

Starting a flame war at the end of a busy work day, on a Friday, does not make one an ignorant fool. But starting a flame war over 1998 data does ... I think I am going to go and drive my Citro�n AX K-Way Edition home now.

[nsxpower]

I've driven a few rental Neons myself and OMG I hated them. I even like the Corolla rentals better, and I don't like Corollas either.

By the way, a crap car with a fast engine is still a crap car.

You were reading my thoughts.

I had to drive a brand new rental Corolla from Boston to NY a year ago or so. I could not go over 70 mph cuz the car would be shaking too much.

The rental Neon experiences are even worse. Did you ever try to take a corner faster then 20 mph in one of those things?

1996 Integra GS-R R.I.P
1997 M3 GT R.I.P.
2001 VW GTI 1.8T R.I.P
...

[Zimphire]

Again, if you think you are getting ANY kind of quality ride in ANY rental car, you are joking yourself.

I can go well over 100mph without any major shaking going on in my R/T.

And I don't think we were talking about exotic cars, nor did anyone compare the Neon to a exotic. I know how nicer cars drive. If you look at the car in front of the Neon is this pic...



Fact is, these Neons are just fun to drive and mess around with. And they are cheap. No one is trying to say otherwise.

Good bang for the buck.

[imaxxedout]

Originally posted by nsxpower:
You were reading my thoughts.

I had to drive a brand new rental Corolla from Boston to NY a year ago or so. I could not go over 70 mph cuz the car would be shaking too much.

The rental Neon experiences are even worse. Did you ever try to take a corner faster then 20 mph in one of those things?

1996 Integra GS-R R.I.P
1997 M3 GT R.I.P.
2001 VW GTI 1.8T R.I.P
...

Considering how many cars you have RIP in your sig I'd say you're an idiot who can't drive.

- $

[imaxxedout]

Originally posted by nsxpower:
1. I take that back.
2. I do not consider any of the cars that participated in the meet exotics, except for the more vintage cars and the Alfa. Where did you find an Alfa in the US?
SCCA Solo II events favour FF cars, thus the mediocre performance of perhaps higher powered FR cars is understandable. It could also be the skill level of the drivers involved.

Starting a flame war at the end of a busy work day, on a Friday, does not make one an ignorant fool. But starting a flame war over 1998 data does ... I think I am going to go and drive my Citro�n AX K-Way Edition home now.

1. What's that mr Exotic car? You can't read? I understand, you're an idiot who takes popular opinion instead of finding out for one's self.

- Ca$h

[imaxxedout]

Originally posted by nsxpower:
There is a Plymoth Neon, Dondge Neon and Chrysler Neon ... and the difference is? besides the price tag, of course. It was meant to be a sarcam, but some people are a little thick even with plenty of "HAHAHA" after one.



Really? Why thank you for clarifying it for me, I was not sure. I sudgest you paint a racing stripe on yours - they say it makes it go faster.

What's a Dondge Neon? Or a Plymoth? You are so dumb.

As for Zimphire clarifying it for you, you're the idiot who said it in the first place, and Zimph was just pointing out how pointless and stupid it was.

- Ca$h

[imaxxedout]

Originally posted by nsxpower:


The rental Neon experiences are even worse. Did you ever try to take a corner faster then 20 mph in one of those things?

...

I know some race neons that can score over 1g on the skidpad.

Can you NSX do that? Nope.

You suck at arguing...

- Ca$h

[passmaster16]

Originally posted by imaxxedout:
I know some race neons that can score over 1g on the skidpad.

Can you NSX do that? Nope.

You suck at arguing...

- Ca$h

What's even more foolish is comparing a 15k dollar mass produced neon to a 80k dollar hand produced NSX.

Actually the Zanardi edition NSX came in second in this road & track test http://www.nsxprime.com/FAQ/Media/magazines/rt9906.htm, only at .93g

But seriously, I'll agree that neons are good value for what you spend and the mod potential is decent, but there a lot of other cars out there that i'd much rather drive

[G4ME]

Originally posted by Eug:


By the way, a crap car with a fast engine is still a crap car.

i just wanted to restate it again so everyone can get a good laugh

[simonjames]

Aren't neons America's answer to the Trabbant?

[Zimphire]

Originally posted by G4ME:
i just wanted to restate it again so everyone can get a good laugh

How is someone saying something idiotic twice, funny?

[Tristrami]

this is the worst thread ever.

[Zimphire]

Originally posted by passmaster16:
What's even more foolish is comparing a 15k dollar mass produced neon to a 80k dollar hand produced NSX.

Depends on what you are comparing.

[G4ME]

Originally posted by Zimphire:
How is someone saying something idiotic twice, funny?

theres nothing idiotic about the truth

[Zimphire]

Originally posted by G4ME:
theres nothing idiotic about the truth

What truth is that? I don't think anyone in here was claiming the Neon was in par with a Porsche, or a BMW. That would be silly. It's a economy car. It just so happens to be a zippy one that is fun to drive, and doesn't leave a hole in your wallet.

I mean take the Celica GT. What a overpriced car. I liked the Celicas, till I saw how much they wanted to rob people for them. They aren't better than any other economy boxes, and they aren't any faster, so why pay more?

I've owned a few Neons. 1st one I bought in 98. It was a 97 Sport. 5sp DOHC. Had it till 2002, never had a problem with it. Drove it hard. That says a lot to me. I would still be driving it had it not been for the 16 year old gal in her decked out civic that was too busy paying attetntion to her CD player than what was going on in the road. So I bought another neon, this time I got a R/T, It's even better.

All I wanted from a car is a it to not be too expensive on gas, and not be underpowered, while being fun to drive. The R/T does all of this and then some. Why should I spend more money on a car that I don't need? I guess I am not that superficial.

Most people who bash Neons, have never really driven a nice one.

Every article I have read about the R/T has been raves about it's handling and HP. Esp for the price. The fun factor was way up there. But of course, I am sure they are all lying.

[passmaster16]

Originally posted by Zimphire:
What truth is that? I don't think anyone in here was claiming the Neon was in par with a Porsche, or a BMW. That would be silly. It's a economy car. It just so happens to be a zippy one that is fun to drive, and doesn't leave a hole in your wallet.

I mean take the Celica GT. What a overpriced car. I liked the Celicas, till I saw how much they wanted to rob people for them. They aren't better than any other economy boxes, and they aren't any faster, so why pay more?

I've owned a few Neons. 1st one I bought in 98. It was a 97 Sport. 5sp DOHC. Had it till 2002, never had a problem with it. Drove it hard. That says a lot to me. I would still be driving it had it not been for the 16 year old gal in her decked out civic that was too busy paying attetntion to her CD player than what was going on in the road. So I bought another neon, this time I got a R/T, It's even better.

All I wanted from a car is a it to not be too expensive on gas, and not be underpowered, while being fun to drive. The R/T does all of this and then some. Why should I spend more money on a car that I don't need? I guess I am not that superficial.

Most people who bash Neons, have never really driven a nice one.

Every article I have read about the R/T has been raves about it's handling and HP. Esp for the price. The fun factor was way up there. But of course, I am sure they are all lying.

I don't bash people if they would just drive the car and not have to act hard like they have the greatest vehicle ever produced. And even though I prefer imports, that goes for the same posers that have to run around in their civics and integras with their fart mufflers buzzing like crazy and acting as though they're speedracer. I had a four cylinder prelude and like the neon, it surely was capable holding its own. But I never took my prelude out there and tried to race my friends supra TT, that would be just plain stupid.

And I did agree that from a value perspective, the neon is a good deal.

To answer your other question about the Celica. Why do people buy them? They buy them for the same reason that many people buy Hondas and Nissans. They hope that they will be more reliable. They tend to maintain higher resale value. Ever compare the price of a civic to the price of a cavalier after two years? Why do domestics depreciate so quickly?

[passmaster16]

Originally posted by nsxpower:

I sudgest you paint a racing stripe on yours - they say it makes it go faster.

You forgot that the stickers and the Japanese writing adds another 5hp

[dillerX]

Originally posted by G4ME:
i just wanted to restate it again so everyone can get a good laugh

I second your motion. Motion passes.

[Zimphire]

Originally posted by passmaster16:
To answer your other question about the Celica. Why do people buy them? They buy them for the same reason that many people buy Hondas and Nissans. They hope that they will be more reliable. They tend to maintain higher resale value. Ever compare the price of a civic to the price of a cavalier after two years? Why do domestics depreciate so quickly?

Actually they didn't start holding their resale value till a bit after the riceboy/import trend started. That is what raised the price of these used cars. Supply and demand. Ricing up civics was a trend not started in the states obviously. Those people used the Civic because it was a cheap car, and so aftermarket companies played to that. People in the states now use the Civic because of the aftermarket support. Civcs used prices went up because of all the riceboys buying them to rice them up.

I don't think anyone in here claimed the Neon was the fastest thing on wheels. I think what Cash is doing is responding to the ignorent people in here that like to bash any car that isn't 30K+ in price and isn't a import. I think what Cash is doing is saying "Look, here is a domestic little rocket that you don't need to spend tons of money on to make fast" And people for some reason hate that fact. I've seen people that have put 10K in their cars on top of what they payed for it only to get beaten by some guy in a domestic 4banger that has all of $7k total in his car. It all comes down to ego stroking. If you have a expensive car and a Neon beats the pants off of you , you have to save face by saying "OH well it's JUST A NEON"

It makes said person look as if they are eating a bowl full of sour grapes. It's the same silliness that PC zealots give Mac users.


'I don't use that kind of computer so I am going to make fun of it to make me feel better about my purchase"

I think Cash is just making fun of these people, more so than trying to say the Neon is the fastest car out there. Because I have yet to see him say the latter.

[passmaster16]

Originally posted by Zimphire:
Actually they didn't start holding their resale value till a bit after the riceboy/import trend started. That is what raised the price of these used cars. .

I have to disagree with you there. Over the past few years imports have always maintained a better resale value. The riceboy trend may have helped boost those values but I don't think that was responsible for it totally. I can prove this by looking at import cars that the riceboy crowd won't buy. Take a look at my 93 Acura Vigor. I still paid $6000 for a car that had 118,000 miles on it. And thats a four door sedan that isn't exactly sought after by people. I could have bought a neon with 50,000 miles on it and probably a few years newer for the same price. So why is there such a gap in the values of these vehicles? Probably because for the most part, the import product has been proven to last longer than the domestic so it warrants a higher price.

[Zimphire]

Pass that car costs alot more than a new Neon does. I HOPE it resells for more.

Fact is before the rice trend, the Civics cost just about the same as their domestic counterpart. They were only more because they were of course imported. After the rice bot scene, the prices exploded.

[imaxxedout]

Originally posted by Zimphire:
I think what Cash is doing is responding to the ignorent people in here that like to bash any car that isn't 30K+ in price and isn't a import.

DING DING DING!

Here is why I posted this thread:

1. People hate neons, but neons are great cars, so I always try to enlighten them.
2. People think Integras are faster than neons
3. People think neons are slow, boring cars that don't handle or accelerate and are JUST econoboxes
4. People praise imports, and hate domestics without any real reasoning other than one is domestic, and one is an import.
5. You can have a fun, fast, car that doesn't guzzle gas for cheap... this is proof.
6. I hate the ignorant 'anti-neon' crowd, so I constantly fight them. Why? I not only BELIEVE I am right, I actually have facts. Most of the "oh I drove a neon rental car once and it sucked' are complete f*cking idiots. Hey guess what? I've driven a POS VW rental car, does that mean all VWs are crap? HELL NO! Also, almost ALL people who say neons are slow have only experienced an automatic, in which case I would agree with them. 5spds make one hell of a difference.
7. Just because you have an expensive car doesn't mean you're fast, competent, or a good driver.

[passmaster16]

Originally posted by Zimphire:
.

Fact is before the rice trend, the Civics cost just about the same as their domestic counterpart. They were only more because they were of course imported.

Most Hondas and Acuras are produced at the Ohio plant so I'm not totally sold on that idea.

I for one never said Neons are slow or badmouthed them. Of course like I said there are a lot of poser riceboys that run their mouths and don't have anything to back it up. This gives true import enthusiasts like me and my friends a bad rep. It was people like us who helped start the import craze just to get disgusted with it after wannabe riceboys totally blew it up. My car now is bone stock and I like it that way. And the bottom line is this, if I wanted real speed, why would I waste my time with a 4 cylinder car anyway? I felt the same way when I had my prelude. Yeah it had some pickup and it was a fun to drive car but I knew its limits.

[madsenj37]

The only american cars worth dropping money on are vipers, corvettes and hummers (not the O2). Otherwise you should go German.

[Zimphire]

Originally posted by passmaster16:
And the bottom line is this, if I wanted real speed, why would I waste my time with a 4 cylinder car anyway? I felt the same way when I had my prelude. Yeah it had some pickup and it was a fun to drive car but I knew its limits.

But what if you want just more than a little speed? I wasn't looking for a car that could go 0-60 in 4 seconds. I have no need for that. Face it, most 4 bangers out there can barely haul you around, much less get up a hill without turning the AC off. But they are GREAT on gas. I wanted a car, that was not only GREAT on gas, but was also not underpowered, nor overpriced just because it was a import. Take the Celica GT, I loved the car, till I saw the price. Civics are the same way. I've never ran out of "power" in my Neon, even with the AC blasted. I didn't buy my Neon because I thought it was a fast sports car. I also knew later on down the line if I wanted to make it faster, I could, for cheap.

Import snobs are silly.

[Zimphire]

Originally posted by madsenj37:
The only american cars worth dropping money on are vipers, corvettes and hummers (not the O2). Otherwise you should go German.

Er yeah. German electronics are top notch aren't they?

Dad had a BMW, Mercur Scorpio, Audi, and now a 928. ALL of them had electronic problems like no other car I have seen. German's may be good at building engines, but their electronics suck. If I am going to pay TOP dollar for a car, I expect it not to give me electronic failures right and left.

Dad's last car he bought was as 2000 Chrysler Concorde. Has never had a problem with it.

[passmaster16]

Originally posted by Zimphire:
But what if you want just more than a little speed? I wasn't looking for a car that could go 0-60 in 4 seconds. I have no need for that. Face it, most 4 bangers out there can barely haul you around, much less get up a hill without turning the AC off. But they are GREAT on gas. I wanted a car, that was not only GREAT on gas, but was also not underpowered, nor overpriced just because it was a import. Take the Celica GT, I loved the car, till I saw the price. Civics are the same way. I've never ran out of "power" in my Neon, even with the AC blasted. I didn't buy my Neon because I thought it was a fast sports car. I also knew later on down the line if I wanted to make it faster, I could, for cheap.

Import snobs are silly.

I think you were missing my point. I totally agree with you. Most of us don't need nor can even use the kind of power of 6+ cylinder vehicles. And that's what I mean. My little four banger is zippy and saves gas but if I wanted true speed, I wouldn't drive my little four cylinder.

Hondas and Toyotas cost more because they *typically* last longer. Don't believe me? Go to any junkyard and read odometers on the imports vs domestics and you'll see that almost all imports are over 100k mi, usually way over that in fact. I was on another message board and somebody did that for a research project. I just think it's silly when people talk about how cheap domestics are but they forget to factor in how much that car will require in repairs when compared to its import counterpart. But I can actually care less what people drive. I've driven both. My family owns both. I drive Hondas cause they are reliable. Mine has 146k mi and that motor is strong as if it was brand new. I don't drive it for speed, or cause it's flashy because most people know Hondas are boring vehicles, but they run well, and that's the most important factor for me. If the Neon runs well, and is reliable, then who cares what other people think about them?

[passmaster16]

Originally posted by Zimphire:
But what if you want just more than a little speed? I wasn't looking for a car that could go 0-60 in 4 seconds. I have no need for that. Face it, most 4 bangers out there can barely haul you around, much less get up a hill without turning the AC off. But they are GREAT on gas. I wanted a car, that was not only GREAT on gas, but was also not underpowered, nor overpriced just because it was a import. Take the Celica GT, I loved the car, till I saw the price. Civics are the same way. I've never ran out of "power" in my Neon, even with the AC blasted. I didn't buy my Neon because I thought it was a fast sports car. I also knew later on down the line if I wanted to make it faster, I could, for cheap.

Import snobs are silly.

I think you were missing my point. I totally agree with you. Most of us don't need nor can even use the kind of power of 6+ cylinder vehicles. And that's what I mean. My little four banger is zippy and saves gas but if I wanted true speed, I wouldn't drive my little four cylinder.

Hondas and Toyotas cost more because they *typically* last longer. Don't believe me? Go to any junkyard and read odometers on the imports vs domestics and you'll see that almost all imports are over 100k mi, usually way over that in fact. I was on another message board and somebody did that for a research project. I just think it's silly when people talk about how cheap domestics are but they forget to factor in how much that car will require in repairs when compared to its import counterpart. But I can actually care less what people drive. I've driven both. My family owns both. I drive Hondas cause they are reliable. Mine has 146k mi and that motor is strong as if it was brand new. I don't drive it for speed, or cause it's flashy because most people know Hondas are boring vehicles, but they run well, and that's the most important factor for me. If the Neon runs well, and is reliable, then who cares what other people think about them?

[vmarks]

And from the alternate experience:

I will never own a Chrysler vehicle again.
They may improve, but I won't take that chance.

Problems encountered:

Three manual transmissions required. At under 130,000 miles.

Every ground contact to the car body was bad. Electrics failed to work, or worked unpredictably. Turn on the headlights? No dashboard lights, just one of many examples of the problems. Solution? I went through the car and under every ground-body contact, placed a star washer which cut through the paint and made good contact.

Camshaft that failed at 100,000. The exhaust lobes wore down at that point. I knew it wasn't just my vehicle, because when I went to the dealership parts desk, they had them as a commonly stocked item.

Again, Chrysler products may improve. I don't have to take that chance, and I won't. Burn me once, shame on you. Burn me twice? Sorry, you don't get that chance.

[Zimphire]

Originally posted by passmaster16:
I think you were missing my point. I totally agree with you. Most of us don't need nor can even use the kind of power of 6+ cylinder vehicles. And that's what I mean. My little four banger is zippy and saves gas but if I wanted true speed, I wouldn't drive my little four cylinder.

Hondas and Toyotas cost more because they *typically* last longer. Don't believe me? Go to any junkyard and read odometers on the imports vs domestics and you'll see that almost all imports are over 100k mi, usually way over that in fact. I was on another message board and somebody did that for a research project. I just think it's silly when people talk about how cheap domestics are but they forget to factor in how much that car will require in repairs when compared to its import counterpart. But I can actually care less what people drive. I've driven both. My family owns both. I drive Hondas cause they are reliable. Mine has 146k mi and that motor is strong as if it was brand new. I don't drive it for speed, or cause it's flashy because most people know Hondas are boring vehicles, but they run well, and that's the most important factor for me. If the Neon runs well, and is reliable, then who cares what other people think about them?

Bah, I have seen all kinds of Domestics getting high miles. It all depends on how much you take care of the car. You can't trash on a car and expect it to last forever.

How come my friends spend more money per year on their Imports, than I do my Domestic in repairs?

In the bottom line, you usually pay a lot more if you have a import. Not only in parts, but in labor as well.

[Zimphire]

Originally posted by vmarks:
And from the alternate experience:

I will never own a Chrysler vehicle again.
They may improve, but I won't take that chance.

Problems encountered:

Three manual transmissions required. At under 130,000 miles.

Every ground contact to the car body was bad. Electrics failed to work, or worked unpredictably. Turn on the headlights? No dashboard lights, just one of many examples of the problems. Solution? I went through the car and under every ground-body contact, placed a star washer which cut through the paint and made good contact.

Camshaft that failed at 100,000. The exhaust lobes wore down at that point. I knew it wasn't just my vehicle, because when I went to the dealership parts desk, they had them as a commonly stocked item.

Again, Chrysler products may improve. I don't have to take that chance, and I won't. Burn me once, shame on you. Burn me twice? Sorry, you don't get that chance.

And I have owned 3 Neons, Chrsylers bottom end car. Not one problem with them. My best friend of 10 years has never bought domestic, usually Civics (he isn't a ricer) and it's been in the shop 3x as much as my Neon. Does that mean all Hondas suck?

[imaxxedout]

Originally posted by madsenj37:
The only american cars worth dropping money on are vipers, corvettes and hummers (not the O2). Otherwise you should go German.

Wow. You are dumb.

Please back up your statement or solidify your dumbness.

- Ca$h

[imaxxedout]

Originally posted by passmaster16:
Hondas and Toyotas cost more because they *typically* last longer. Don't believe me? Go to any junkyard and read odometers on the imports vs domestics and you'll see that almost all imports are over 100k mi, usually way over that in fact. I was on another message board and somebody did that for a research project. I just think it's silly when people talk about how cheap domestics are but they forget to factor in how much that car will require in repairs when compared to its import counterpart. But I can actually care less what people drive. I've driven both. My family owns both. I drive Hondas cause they are reliable. Mine has 146k mi and that motor is strong as if it was brand new. I don't drive it for speed, or cause it's flashy because most people know Hondas are boring vehicles, but they run well, and that's the most important factor for me. If the Neon runs well, and is reliable, then who cares what other people think about them?

I disagree. I also disagree with Zimphire's reasoning as to why imports are expensive. The reason imports have always had great resale value is because they USED TO BE more reliable than american cars. If you took an 80s civic vs an 80s cavalier, the civic is going to be WAAYY more reliable.

HOWEVER, today's cars are an entirely different idea. Modern imports are basically just as reliable as modern domestics. HERE"S the difference: Because imports USED to be more reliable, they STILL have a higher resale value. It's hard to work yourselves out of a rut, but thats where the domestic marques are stuck. Another differnce is build quality. Neons, cavaliers, focuses, etc... their interiors ALL SUCK, compared to a honda or a toyota. Hell, just shut the door on any of them and you'll hear the difference. Some will rattle when you shut the door (domestics), the imports sound much nicer.

I admit all of this. But reliability is bullshit, all modern cars are pretty reliable, and when it comes to performance, 80% of imports blow compared to a 1st generation neon.

- Ca$h

[Zimphire]

And if Luxury interior was a concern, you wouldn't even be looking at a Neon. \

BTW my Dad's Concorde has nice interior. All leather and everything

[imaxxedout]

Originally posted by vmarks:
And from the alternate experience:

I will never own a Chrysler vehicle again.
They may improve, but I won't take that chance.

Problems encountered:

Three manual transmissions required. At under 130,000 miles.

Every ground contact to the car body was bad. Electrics failed to work, or worked unpredictably. Turn on the headlights? No dashboard lights, just one of many examples of the problems. Solution? I went through the car and under every ground-body contact, placed a star washer which cut through the paint and made good contact.

Camshaft that failed at 100,000. The exhaust lobes wore down at that point. I knew it wasn't just my vehicle, because when I went to the dealership parts desk, they had them as a commonly stocked item.

Again, Chrysler products may improve. I don't have to take that chance, and I won't. Burn me once, shame on you. Burn me twice? Sorry, you don't get that chance.

I agree with you 100%. But I'm assuming you had a chrysler product from the 80s, when they were almost bankrupt. I agree, most 80s chryslers were ****. Hell, even most late 70s and early 90s. That whole period sucked. Bad build quality, bad performance, bad styling (as most things from the 80s), etc. And this is EXACTLy the reason why most MODERN domestic cars STILL have horrible resale values; because of people with experiences like you. I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm just pointing out what a good deal most modern domestics are for people who REALIZE this fact.

- Ca$h

PS: If you think those electrical problems are bad, don't ever buy a mercedes.

[imaxxedout]

Originally posted by Zimphire:
And if Luxury interior was a concern, you wouldn't even be looking at a Neon. \

BTW my Dad's Concorde has nice interior. All leather and everything

but that will have a crappy interior compared to a used integra.



- Ca$h

[passmaster16]

Sorry, double post.

[passmaster16]

Originally posted by vmarks:
And from the alternate experience:

I will never own a Chrysler vehicle again.
They may improve, but I won't take that chance.

Problems encountered:

Three manual transmissions required. At under 130,000 miles.

Every ground contact to the car body was bad. Electrics failed to work, or worked unpredictably. Turn on the headlights? No dashboard lights, just one of many examples of the problems. Solution? I went through the car and under every ground-body contact, placed a star washer which cut through the paint and made good contact.

Camshaft that failed at 100,000. The exhaust lobes wore down at that point. I knew it wasn't just my vehicle, because when I went to the dealership parts desk, they had them as a commonly stocked item.

Again, Chrysler products may improve. I don't have to take that chance, and I won't. Burn me once, shame on you. Burn me twice? Sorry, you don't get that chance.

And I can second that notion. Since our company was a former division of DaimlerChrysler, many employees were able to purchase Chrysler products at invoice price. My brother purchased a 2001 Dodge Stratus because of the good discount we got. Before 5000mi the brakes went bad, along with the air conditioning. The muffler just about fell off the car a day after driving it home from the dealership. Sorry, new vehciles shouldn't have this many issues. Many other coworkers are complaining about the problems they are having as well. My brother wanted to trade in the Stratus, but they only want to give him $8000 and the car only has 15,000 mi on it.

[Zimphire]

Muffler just fell off eh? Go to a garage and tell them your muffler just fell off for no reason. They will laugh at you., then ask what you did to cause it to fall off.

[passmaster16]

Originally posted by Zimphire:
Muffler just fell off eh? Go to a garage and tell them your muffler just fell off for no reason. They will laugh at you., then ask what you did to cause it to fall off.

Well, the bracket broke causing the muffler to sag. And yes, Chrysler fixed it because they knew it was their screw up

[Zimphire]

Originally posted by passmaster16:
Well, the bracket broke causing the muffler to sag. And yes, Chrysler fixed it because they knew it was their screw up

No, probably because it was still under warranty. I know of no problems Chrysler is having with mufflers falling off by themselves. And believe me, if they were having problems, I would have heard about it. Your brother obviously scraped the bracket or somehow damaged it. These things just don't break on their own, nor do they just "fall off"

[imaxxedout]

Ditto that. Never heard of a muffler falling off, nor have I heard of many problems with the NEW dodge stratus, and not muchw ith the old one either.

- Ca$h