[Zoom]

[did this not post?]


I was going to buy a whole new Mac, but with all the speculation on the 970 chips coming in the next year, I think I'll try to extend the life of my existing "long in the tooth" Sawtooth G4/400. I'm running OS 10.2.4 and it seems a little pokey. I was hoping to give it a little kick in the pants to get me through another 6-12 months.

I've already got 768MB of RAM. I think that's enough. All the slots are full, so I'd have to take out 128MB to add anything.

I've got a Radeon 32MB Mac Edition video card, but I'm wondering if upgrading this might not be better than upgrading the CPU. I know OSX is graphics intensive with all the Quartz Extreme stuff.

I wouldn't want to spend too much, either, like maybe $200-300, though I'd spend a little more if it was worth it.

Gigadesigns has a G4/800 (http://eshop.macsales.com/Item_DealM...Item=GIGGC1800) upgrade for $230. Seems kinda pricey to me, honestly. My PC coworkers buy major upgrades for their PCs for dirt cheap. After four years, I would think I could double my CPU clock speed for a lot less than this.

I'd also really like to get a Pioneer 105 installed so I can burn some DVDs. Anyone know if this is easy to install on an older G4?

[Ron Goodman]

I upgraded mine with a 500 DP card from Sonnet and have been very pleased. I'm sure the current versions are faster.

[tr]

the gigadesigns upgrades are getting some good reviews. one thing that's cool with them is that you can overclock them easily, they put multiplier jumpers on the card, and if you change them, the card is still under warranty.

check out this, someone overclocked the 800 to 1ghz with no problem.

i think your Radeon is fine, i guess it all depends what work you're doing, or if you're a gamer. i've put a flashed PC radeon 8500, and it works great; that was like $100 or so.

the A05 should work fine, all you do is take out the old drive, and put in the new one. i've put a A03 in my sawtooth 450, works great. the only hang up i do see with the A05 is that i don't know if it's supported in 9. but that's a moot point, if you're only running X.

i'm kinda in the same boat as you, just gotta save some cash to upgrade the processor. i think i've just about upgraded everything else in my sawtooth!


tr

[Corinthian]

I am now facing rather the same problem with my G4-Sawtooth. My External CD-RW is dying, now only got a DVD-ROM with it. I have upgraded my display card to Radeon 8500 Mac Edition, spending a great deal of money. I want to make a little upgrade to my Mac, to either 800MHz or even become a Giger, while the most obvious need would be to change the DVD to something like a combo, at least, or even a DVD-RW/+RW. But I am also considering the possibility to get a new one through lower educational pricing.

What would u guys do if u were me? I need some ideas over it, so that I can start saving....

[G4ME]

combo drive, look at xlr8yourmac.com and check out the drive compatabilty, at new egg you can snag a nice LG 48x24x48 16x DVD combo drive for only 80 bucks, not bad IMO

[booboo]

I replaced my Sawtooth 400 with a refurb Digital Audio 733. I was hoping for nearly double the performance, but what I got, subjctively, was less than 50%. This was a disappointing upgrade, and one of the least impressive iI've ever had. Probably ranks alongside the 9500/150 to 8600/200 'upgrade' I did years ago...

However I now have a 533 DP and this, subjectively, gives close to twice the performance of the 733. I can't recommend the 533 DP highly enough...

My advice would be, before spendinding too much on upgrading your Sawtooth, think about selling it on and picking up a more recent G4 - you'll get a 133MHz bus, ATA66 and faster AGP port probably for less than a cpu upgrade for your existing machine.

[D'Espice]

Basically, all you need is a new CPU. The video card should be fine as long as it's not a ATI Rage128 Pro.
Go get one of these Gigadesigns CPU upgrades for $230, they're worth every single cent.

[Walker]

Originally posted by D'Espice:
Basically, all you need is a new CPU. The video card should be fine as long as it's not a ATI Rage128 Pro.
Go get one of these Gigadesigns CPU upgrades for $230, they're worth every single cent.

I thought I read that the lack of L3 cache slowed down the performance of the low end $230 gigadesign chips.

lw

[Zoom]

Okay, some good ideas. I'd love to get some sort of DP CPU, though. I like the idea of having the better responsiveness. Where did people find the DP 533 upgrade? Or should I get a refurbed entire machine? Please point me to some places that sell these for decent prices.

Where would you sell a Mac like mine? eBay? Or are there better venues for a Mac? I would consider that if I could get maybe $500 for it.

Any more ideas?

[D'Espice]

Originally posted by Walker:
I thought I read that the lack of L3 cache slowed down the performance of the low end $230 gigadesign chips.

lw

Of course the lack of L3 cache is slowing down the CPU. However not everybody needs the performance an additional L3 cache would offer because not every applications takes advantage of it. Most apps do, like Photoshop a little bit and Cinema4D and all other raytracers do big time. Games do a little bit too. But when it comes to office applications or browsing the web or programming or stuff like that, spending way more just to have the additional L3 cache wouldn't make any sense.
And don't forget, $230 is darn cheap for a G4/800 CPU and it's significantly faster than his current CPU.

If I'd be getting a new CPU (which I'm gonna soon) I'd prefer saving some bucks and getting the G4/800 without L3 cache or the 1 GHz G4 with L3 cache. Definitely not the G4/800 with L3 cache because the difference wouldn't be big enough for me to justify spending more. The 1 GHz G4 with L3 cache is significantly faster though.

[Zoom]

So, again, where are people finding the dual processor upgrades? And how would you stack a DP 533 against a single processor 800? I would think the DP would be better. But I didn't see these on sale from Gigadesigns, and I don't recall seeing them from Sonnet, but I could be wrong there.

[reader50]

PowerLogix makes dual CPU upgrades.

Unfortunately, duals are not compatible with the early Sawtooths. My Sawtooth Rev B is not compatible, I have a Uni-n 3 memory controller. You need a Uni-n 7 or higher controller for dual CPUs.

[D'Espice]

Originally posted by reader50:
PowerLogix makes dual CPU upgrades.

Unfortunately, duals are not compatible with the early Sawtooths. My Sawtooth Rev B is not compatible, I have a Uni-n 3 memory controller. You need a Uni-n 7 or higher controller for dual CPUs.

Mine isn't neither, stupid "�$"�&"!%!. Anyway, there's a program to determine whether your PowerMac is compatible with duals or not. IIRC PowerLogix offers this utility, not sure though, might as well be Sonnet.

[tr]

uni-N rev checker (courtesy of PL)

if only i didn't have a rev.3, i'd be a dual...

tr

[Zoom]

Cool, guys, thanks for the advice. I ordered the Gigadesigns G4/800 upgrade, with hopes of overclocking it to 900 at least, and I will certainly try 1GHz! Man, that would be sweet. What are the dangers with this? I don't care if I shorten the life of the CPU a little, as long as it lasts a year or so. Does this void the warrantee? I would think so, except that this company seems to encourage overclocking.

But there should be no harm to the rest of the machine, right? Worst case, I burn up the CPU and I switch back to the original. Of course, that would upset me, but not as much as somehow frying the motherboard or something.

I ran xbench on my current machine, and can't recall the overall figure... something in the 50s, I think. I'm very anxious to see what I can get with the new CPU. I'll try to post the results when I have them.

[tr]

bus multiplier jumper settings for GigaDesign's G4 upgrades (from xlr8yourmac.com)

also from that page:

Giga Designs told me recently that they have changed their warranty policy on Overclocking; no longer is it considered "abuse" - as long as the CPU core voltage settings are not changed.

tr

[ChrisB]

Honestly, a CPU upgrade for a Mac is never a wasted investment. I bought one from Sonnet four years ago for a Performa 6360 - upped it to a G3/250. I have had the Mac for 7 years now, and I still use it as a Photoshop machine. Works great.

If you prepared yourself in the beginning, upgrading is painless. Spending $300-$600 for a CPU upgrade for a Mac is not unreasonable at all.

What you have to understand is that the prices are higher than PC user upgrades because there are fewer Mac users, resulting in fewer buyers of CPU upgrades, resulting in a higher price for a product that isn't going to sell in extremely high numbers. It's classic Macroeconomic supply and demand. So in perspective, the prices you see are completely reasonable - considering the R&D involved and how many the company may actually be able to sell.

My two cents.

[Zoom]

Here are my xbench scores for the un-upgraded system. Anyone want to bet on what they will be with the CPU upgrade running at 1GHz?

I actually just now realized that I do NOT have 768MB of RAM! Crazy. I thought I had 2x256 and 2x128, but I have 64, 2x128 and a 256. So, the next upgrade will be to get some more RAM. I forget, is the 64MB soldered in or can I replace it?

I've got a 7200rpm hard drive, so I should be fine there, but I was thinking about replacing the original 10GB drive with a newer 7200rpm drive, since they're so damn cheap, and using that as storage for some video editing. (I still have OS9 on the original drive, I installed OSX on a secondard drive and I'm now running from there.)

Finally, I'm considering upgrading my Radeon Mac Edition 32MB card with the Radeon 9000 Pro. Thoughts?




Results 50.56
System Info
Xbench Version 1.0
System Version 10.2.4
Physical RAM 576 MB
Model PowerMac3,1
Processor PowerPC G4 @ 400 MHz
Version 7400 (Max) v2.8
L1 Cache 32K (instruction), 32K (data)
L2 Cache 1024K @ 200 MHz
Bus Frequency 100 MHz
Video Card ATY,RADEON
Drive Type IC35L060AVVA07-0
CPU Test 38.07
GCD Recursion 40.31 1.57 Mops/sec
Floating Point Basic 48.63 163.90 Mflop/sec
AltiVec Basic 21.93 1.19 Gflop/sec
Floating Point Library 70.90 3.18 Mops/sec
Thread Test 30.30
Computation 25.86 208.37 Kops/sec, 4 threads
Lock Contention 36.59 459.23 Klocks/sec, 4 threads
Memory Test 69.23
System 59.58
Allocate 75.56 25.47 Kalloc/sec
Fill 66.27 380.00 MB/sec
Copy 45.40 227.00 MB/sec
Stream 82.61
Copy 80.46 351.85 MB/sec [altivec]
Scale 81.30 354.72 MB/sec [altivec]
Add 83.48 379.82 MB/sec [altivec]
Triad 85.38 375.16 MB/sec [altivec]
Quartz Graphics Test 60.17
Line 57.97 1.48 Klines/sec [50% alpha]
Rectangle 64.66 4.55 Krects/sec [50% alpha]
Circle 65.76 1.52 Kcircles/sec [50% alpha]
Bezier 58.10 631.31 beziers/sec [50% alpha]
Text 55.67 907.42 chars/sec
OpenGL Graphics Test 54.75
Spinning Squares 54.75 38.31 frames/sec
User Interface Test 51.92
Elements 51.92 17.67 refresh/sec
Disk Test 94.45
Sequential 88.98
Uncached Write 72.71 31.72 MB/sec [4K blocks]
Uncached Write 96.21 39.14 MB/sec [256K blocks]
Uncached Read 90.01 14.18 MB/sec [4K blocks]
Uncached Read 103.11 44.48 MB/sec [256K blocks]
Random 100.64
Uncached Write 92.31 1.39 MB/sec [4K blocks]
Uncached Write 104.52 23.98 MB/sec [256K blocks]
Uncached Read 99.39 0.65 MB/sec [4K blocks]
Uncached Read 107.73 21.12 MB/sec [256K blocks]

[iceaxe23]

would like to see your score when you upgrade...I justed tested my g4 350 that I want to upgrade or wait for the newest of new ibm chipped ones. Mine is kinda slow doing Imovie, idvd, ps, ect. well here is my score:
Results 41.09
System Info
Xbench Version 1.0
System Version 10.2.4
Physical RAM 640 MB
Model PowerMac3,1
Processor PowerPC G4 @ 350 MHz
Version 7400 (Max) v2.8
L1 Cache 32K (instruction), 32K (data)
L2 Cache 1024K @ 175 MHz
Bus Frequency 100 MHz
Video Card ATY,Rage128Pro
Drive Type WDC WD102AA
CPU Test 33.89
GCD Recursion 34.17 1.33 Mops/sec
Floating Point Basic 43.26 145.80 Mflop/sec
AltiVec Basic 20.05 1.09 Gflop/sec
Floating Point Library 63.41 2.85 Mops/sec
Thread Test 27.32
Computation 23.27 187.48 Kops/sec, 4 threads
Lock Contention 33.08 415.28 Klocks/sec, 4 threads
Memory Test 64.61
System 55.54
Allocate 63.12 21.28 Kalloc/sec
Fill 68.29 391.62 MB/sec
Copy 42.49 212.47 MB/sec
Stream 77.22
Copy 76.45 334.30 MB/sec [altivec]
Scale 77.30 337.24 MB/sec [altivec]
Add 76.54 348.24 MB/sec [altivec]
Triad 78.64 345.56 MB/sec [altivec]
Quartz Graphics Test 52.74
Line 46.69 1.19 Klines/sec [50% alpha]
Rectangle 58.15 4.09 Krects/sec [50% alpha]
Circle 57.26 1.32 Kcircles/sec [50% alpha]
Bezier 52.19 567.14 beziers/sec [50% alpha]
Text 51.13 833.42 chars/sec
OpenGL Graphics Test 56.18
Spinning Squares 56.18 39.32 frames/sec
User Interface Test 46.33
Elements 46.33 15.76 refresh/sec
Disk Test 32.87
Sequential 35.17
Uncached Write 37.29 16.27 MB/sec [4K blocks]
Uncached Write 38.95 15.85 MB/sec [256K blocks]
Uncached Read 54.11 8.52 MB/sec [4K blocks]
Uncached Read 23.39 10.09 MB/sec [256K blocks]
Random 30.86
Uncached Write 17.08 0.26 MB/sec [4K blocks]
Uncached Write 37.39 8.58 MB/sec [256K blocks]
Uncached Read 44.90 0.29 MB/sec [4K blocks]
Uncached Read 45.35 8.89 MB/sec [256K blocks]


I am guessing since mine is slower the 800 upgrade would be a big inprovement from what I have or would it???

[DrBoar]

Here are my xbench scores for the un-upgraded system. Anyone want to bet on what they will be with the CPU upgrade running at 1GHz?
=>about twise the speed (not 2.5 as the longer pipeline eats performace)
look at www.xlr8yourmac.com tests

I actually just now realized that I do NOT have 768MB of RAM! Crazy. I thought I had 2x256 and 2x128, but I have 64, 2x128 and a 256. So, the next upgrade will be to get some more RAM. I forget, is the 64MB soldered in or can I replace it?
=>You have 4 slots no soldered RAM

Finally, I'm considering upgrading my Radeon Mac Edition 32MB card with the Radeon 9000 Pro. Thoughts?
=>No. The original Radeon is a good card and good enough unless you run games at very high resolutions 1600x1200 and perhaps 1280x1024

A old G4/400 can be upgraded to current standard with a dual 1.2 GHz G4 and a Radeon 9000 card and a big HD and CD burner but then the total cost is much as buying a new one, at least

A 800 MHz G4 with Cache for 300 dollar look like a good deal, if you keep it at that, but if you start adding this and that it defeats the purpose

[Xyphoid Process]

Originally posted by Zoom:
[B]Here are my xbench scores for the un-upgraded system. Anyone want to bet on what they will be with the CPU upgrade running at 1GHz?

I actually just now realized that I do NOT have 768MB of RAM! Crazy. I thought I had 2x256 and 2x128, but I have 64, 2x128 and a 256. So, the next upgrade will be to get some more RAM. I forget, is the 64MB soldered in or can I replace it?

I've got a 7200rpm hard drive, so I should be fine there, but I was thinking about replacing the original 10GB drive with a newer 7200rpm drive, since they're so damn cheap, and using that as storage for some video editing. (I still have OS9 on the original drive, I installed OSX on a secondard drive and I'm now running from there.)

You can replace all four memory sticks - if you have trouble finding PC100 you should be ok with PC133 (i have both in my sawtooth).

If you don't have an internal zip drive you can shove one more hard drive in the zip bay - but keep in mind that the zip/dvd bus is slower than the hard drive bus. You could shove the 10gb up there and use it as a backup or something (I use a spare 5400 drive in there to store itunes/sync ipod).

[Zoom]

So, here's the deal. I've got the original internal CDROM drive (I think it also does DVDs, but I never use it for that) and an external Firewire CD-R/RW drive (24x). I want to get a DVD burner now and I'm considering getting a faster CDR drive, too (DVD burners only do 24x CDR, I think). What is the best route?

First, can I replace the drive in the external Lacie case? Is it just an IDE interface on the inside?

Second, which would be the better drive to put in the Mac itself - the DVD burner or the CD-R drive? Will I have any trouble booting from CD (or DVD) from that drive?

[tr]

Originally posted by Zoom:
So, here's the deal. I've got the original internal CDROM drive (I think it also does DVDs, but I never use it for that) and an external Firewire CD-R/RW drive (24x). I want to get a DVD burner now and I'm considering getting a faster CDR drive, too (DVD burners only do 24x CDR, I think). What is the best route?

First, can I replace the drive in the external Lacie case? Is it just an IDE interface on the inside?

Second, which would be the better drive to put in the Mac itself - the DVD burner or the CD-R drive? Will I have any trouble booting from CD (or DVD) from that drive?

i'd say get a superdrive, and put it internal. this way, all the apple apps (iTunes, iDVD, etc) will see it, and it will be fully recongnized. the DVD burner (A05) only burns CD's at 16x. if that's too slow , then get an IDE CD-R and stick it in the fw case. i'm not too sure if you can just stick a new drive in your lacie, you might. maybe someone who may know can chime in.

tr

[Zoom]

Okay, I got the Gigadesigns 800Mhz upgrade card and I've re-run Xbench. Here are the results:

Results 66.12
System Info
Xbench Version 1.0
System Version 10.2.4
Physical RAM 576 MB
Model PowerMac3,1
Processor PowerPC G4 @ 800 MHz
Version 7450 (V'ger) v2.1
L1 Cache 32K (instruction), 32K (data)
L2 Cache 256K @ 400 MHz
Bus Frequency 100 MHz
Video Card ATY,RADEON
Drive Type IC35L060AVVA07-0
CPU Test 85.00
GCD Recursion 89.57 3.50 Mops/sec
Floating Point Basic 83.85 282.66 Mflop/sec
AltiVec Basic 77.69 4.22 Gflop/sec
Floating Point Library 90.13 4.05 Mops/sec
Thread Test 49.35
Computation 48.51 390.78 Kops/sec, 4 threads
Lock Contention 50.23 630.47 Klocks/sec, 4 threads
Memory Test 57.12
System 56.31
Allocate 89.71 30.25 Kalloc/sec
Fill 56.74 325.38 MB/sec
Copy 40.81 204.06 MB/sec
Stream 57.95
Copy 57.74 252.48 MB/sec [altivec]
Scale 58.53 255.36 MB/sec [altivec]
Add 57.28 260.64 MB/sec [altivec]
Triad 58.28 256.08 MB/sec [altivec]
Quartz Graphics Test 71.84
Line 73.67 1.88 Klines/sec [50% alpha]
Rectangle 81.37 5.72 Krects/sec [50% alpha]
Circle 83.20 1.92 Kcircles/sec [50% alpha]
Bezier 70.91 770.54 beziers/sec [50% alpha]
Text 56.79 925.61 chars/sec
OpenGL Graphics Test 73.85
Spinning Squares 73.85 51.68 frames/sec
User Interface Test 52.68
Elements 52.68 17.92 refresh/sec
Disk Test 101.13
Sequential 101.55
Uncached Write 91.24 39.81 MB/sec [4K blocks]
Uncached Write 101.75 41.40 MB/sec [256K blocks]
Uncached Read 112.48 17.72 MB/sec [4K blocks]
Uncached Read 103.00 44.43 MB/sec [256K blocks]
Random 100.71
Uncached Write 91.72 1.38 MB/sec [4K blocks]
Uncached Write 105.13 24.12 MB/sec [256K blocks]
Uncached Read 98.18 0.64 MB/sec [4K blocks]
Uncached Read 109.69 21.50 MB/sec [256K blocks]


The overall score improved from 50.56 to 66.12, which doesn't seem like much. However, the CPU score went from 33.89 to 85.00. The memory test went down, I suppose because of the smaller L2 cache?

I was ready to overclock this sucker to 900MHz and 1GHz, but according to this web page, I need more jumpers to do this and the card didn't ship with any extras. I don't have any lying around, so I'll have to go buy some jumpers (I don't think I'll try to wrap wire on these things). Bummer.

So far, I haven't noticed any real improvement, but once I start doing some Photoshop stuff I'm sure I will.

I was kinda bummed that the user interface score didn't change much. Is that purely a function of the video card (ie, Quartz stuff)?

What can I change on my system to increase the user interface score? What will adding more RAM do for me at this point?

[gizzard]

Why do you guys bother using synthetic benchmarks? They don't mean anything. It just gives you some number based on theoretical performance. I can tell you from my own testing in real world applications, that a G4/800 w/ no L3 cache is about the same speed as a G4/500 w/ 1 MB L2 cache (7400).

[Zoom]

Originally posted by gizzard:
Why do you guys bother using synthetic benchmarks? They don't mean anything. It just gives you some number based on theoretical performance. I can tell you from my own testing in real world applications, that a G4/800 w/ no L3 cache is about the same speed as a G4/500 w/ 1 MB L2 cache (7400).

Come on, these aren't synthetic. They're about as objective and accurate as you're going to get. How they translate into subjective "feel" isn't straightforward, but we all know that. I can certainly tell you that increasing the objective performance benchmark numbers will increase the subjective feeling of performance, though it will certainly depend on how a given application works. Some apps are graphically intensive (games), others are computationally intensive (Photoshop, iDVD), others are user interface intensive (web browsing, word processors). There is certainly a direct correlation between the benchmarks and subjective responsiveness and performance.

If you're trying to say that what matters is how it feels for the apps you tend to use, then sure, I'd agree. But you've got to have an objective basis for comparison.

[gizzard]

The biggest issue i have here is that Xbench is being used as the primary benchmark. Even iTunes, iDVD, iMovie, and PShop tests are better indications of performance. Xbench only gives you some theoretical number that you are not likely to see when you are using your computer. Heck, I'm sure most people don't even understand what kind of tests Xbench runs. What good is it then?

[D'Espice]

gizzard:
You're absolutely right, xbench is a synthetic benchmark and its credibility is very questionable.
However it's pretty good for comparing two different harddrives or the same Mac with two different CPUs. Of course a 30% increased xbench score does not mean that overall performance is also increased by 30% now. But you get a ballpark figure whether it's faster or not.

[Zoom]

So, the next trick will be overclocking the CPU. I'll try 900MHz first and then 1GHz and I'll report the Xbench scores for each. I've got some more RAM on the way, too, and we'll see what (if anything) that does for me.

Question: if my Mac appears to run okay with the overclocked CPU, say for a few days or a week, can I assume it'll stay okay? How much am I shortening the life of the CPU by doing this?

Also, it sounds like Gigadesigns is fine with overclocking (warrantee-wise) as long as you don't alter the CPU voltage. Is that correct?

[ChrisB]

Yea, but benchmark tests are not real world application tests - they are just numbers related to crunching raw data that is meaningless to you - because you aren't doing anything with it. That is why real application tests, such as with Adobe Photoshop, and Final Cut Pro, are much more relevant, because they reflect work that real people are doing and care about.

On another note, if you want OVERALL speed increases, you have to approach upgrades at every key point in your system. The CPU upgrade will not speed up the entire system. You also need to work with memory, adding a faster, low seek time hard drive of at least 7200RPM, and a video card that has increased processing power to handle the needs of a more intensive GUI.

Here's another key thing, sometimes upgrading your OS ALL THE TIME is can be fun to keep up with what is new - but...that doesn't mean that that version of the operating system was optimized for your system.

For example: I have an upgraded Performa 6360. I have a 250Mhz G3 card in it's L2 cache slot. But if you remember the specs on the system, it's only a 40Mhz system bus - limited to 136MB of RAM. Video isn't an issue because I can put a video card in the PCI slot. My hard drive is limited to 8GB because the Mac uses the ATA-2 standard.

Mac OS 8.5 and 8.5.1 were optimized in their code for a G3 processor like I have in the Mac. Everything above that (8.6-9.x) was optimized for a G4, with the ability to scale down to a G3 processor. Mac OS 8.5.1 runs so much quicker, and works well with the amount of RAM I can use, than 9.2.2. Therefore, I use 8.5.1 on that machine because I get the best performance out of that OS - the Mac literally flies.

Configure your Mac according to what OS versions, and software application versions - even if they are older - work best with your Mac. Mac OS 10.2 flies, even on upgraded G4's - if configured properly. You don't always have to do a full OS install. But in the future, may upgrading to Mac OS 10.3 or 5 or whatever isn't best, because that may be optimized for a G5 - not your Mac.

My two cents.

[dfiler]

Originally posted by Zoom:
So, the next trick will be overclocking the CPU. I'll try 900MHz first and then 1GHz and I'll report the Xbench scores for each. I've got some more RAM on the way, too, and we'll see what (if anything) that does for me.

If you're still looking for speed, you should consider a new, faster hard drive. When I upgraded my dual450 with a WD drive with 8mb of cache, the finder and file save/open dialogs were noticeably more responsive. The faster hard drive truly did seem like a CPU upgrade for selected tasks. The thing is, these tasks were the ones that seemed to lag a bit, like displaying folder contents and file previews.

[Zoom]

Originally posted by dfiler:
If you're still looking for speed, you should consider a new, faster hard drive.

I'm running off a 60GB 7200 secondary hard drive now. I'm not sure what the cache size or seek times are, I can't even remember the brand name at this point. But I'll check that out. I may replace the original 10GB drive with a newer, faster one and run from there instead... though it was a pain to upgrade all my apps.

What sort of drives come standard on the new PowerMacs?

[Zoom]

Well, I tried the overclocking tonight. During the Xbench test, my Mac freaked. Somewhere in the middle of the graphics tests, a window popped up in about 5 languages telling me I had to reboot.

So, now I'm running at 900MHz. Here are the Xbench scores:

Results 69.58
System Info
Xbench Version 1.0
System Version 10.2.4
Physical RAM 768 MB
Model PowerMac3,1
Processor PowerPC G4 @ 900 MHz
Version 7450 (V'ger) v2.1
L1 Cache 32K (instruction), 32K (data)
L2 Cache 256K @ 450 MHz
Bus Frequency 100 MHz
Video Card ATY,RADEON
Drive Type IC35L060AVVA07-0
CPU Test 79.16
GCD Recursion 69.65 2.72 Mops/sec
Floating Point Basic 75.77 255.39 Mflop/sec
AltiVec Basic 85.98 4.67 Gflop/sec
Floating Point Library 88.17 3.96 Mops/sec
Thread Test 55.04
Computation 54.72 440.84 Kops/sec, 4 threads
Lock Contention 55.37 695.07 Klocks/sec, 4 threads
Memory Test 56.20
System 52.20
Allocate 98.05 33.06 Kalloc/sec
Fill 49.76 285.35 MB/sec
Copy 36.80 183.99 MB/sec
Stream 60.85
Copy 60.60 264.99 MB/sec [altivec]
Scale 60.86 265.52 MB/sec [altivec]
Add 60.01 273.06 MB/sec [altivec]
Triad 61.98 272.32 MB/sec [altivec]
Quartz Graphics Test 79.68
Line 83.37 2.12 Klines/sec [50% alpha]
Rectangle 88.98 6.26 Krects/sec [50% alpha]
Circle 90.89 2.10 Kcircles/sec [50% alpha]
Bezier 77.42 841.28 beziers/sec [50% alpha]
Text 64.10 1.04 Kchars/sec
OpenGL Graphics Test 81.93
Spinning Squares 81.93 57.33 frames/sec
User Interface Test 57.19
Elements 57.19 19.46 refresh/sec
Disk Test 102.40
Sequential 105.26
Uncached Write 98.63 43.03 MB/sec [4K blocks]
Uncached Write 99.50 40.48 MB/sec [256K blocks]
Uncached Read 122.69 19.32 MB/sec [4K blocks]
Uncached Read 103.52 44.66 MB/sec [256K blocks]
Random 99.70
Uncached Write 87.89 1.33 MB/sec [4K blocks]
Uncached Write 104.99 24.08 MB/sec [256K blocks]
Uncached Read 99.46 0.65 MB/sec [4K blocks]
Uncached Read 109.12 21.39 MB/sec [256K blocks]


You can see that the overall score increased from 66.12 to 69.58 (800MHz to 900MHz) but the CPU test actually decreaded from 85.00 to 79.16! How do you explain that?

This test looks flaky to me. I did increase the RAM from 576 to 768, but I ran Xbench after only the RAM change and the score change was negligible.

Can anyone explain these numbers??

[gizzard]

Your Mac "freaking" was actually a kernel panic. You should probably clock your upgrade back to 800 MHz. It probably won't be stable at higher speeds.

[cgc]

Originally posted by Zoom:
Here are my xbench scores for the un-upgraded system. Anyone want to bet on what they will be with the CPU upgrade running at 1GHz?

I actually just now realized that I do NOT have 768MB of RAM! Crazy. I thought I had 2x256 and 2x128, but I have 64, 2x128 and a 256. So, the next upgrade will be to get some more RAM. I forget, is the 64MB soldered in or can I replace it?

I've got a 7200rpm hard drive, so I should be fine there, but I was thinking about replacing the original 10GB drive with a newer 7200rpm drive, since they're so damn cheap, and using that as storage for some video editing. (I still have OS9 on the original drive, I installed OSX on a secondard drive and I'm now running from there.)

Finally, I'm considering upgrading my Radeon Mac Edition 32MB card with the Radeon 9000 Pro. Thoughts?

I have a G4 400mhz Sawtooth and upgraded from Rage 128 to Radeon 8500 and saw some improvement but it's not as much as you'd expect. I think your video card is fine and that a CPU upgrade would be more beneficual to you.