[wallinbl]

What are the real benefits of the 17" over the 12"?

I'm looking at them both, and wondering what I get for the extra money on the 17". I'm going to do video editing and web development (PHP coding, Dreamweaver & Flash design). I'm sure those put screen real estate at a premium, however I have a nice 19" monitor that I intend to use while at my desk. So, the screen benefit only applies to time spent away from the desk. Hard to gauge - I'm buying the laptop to remove the chain of the desk...

Is 867MHz vs 1GHz really a big deal? Is the battery life any better or worse (I want real world here, not specs)? Is the heat on the 12" really bad? How do you like carrying your 17"? Do you find it flimsy? What are the other benefits that I may have missed?

BTW, I'm not interested in the 15" - I want faster wireless.

[morlium]

the big differnce in speedcs b/w the 17" and 12" is not so much the processing speed itself, but rather the L3 cach on the 17", which provides a significant speed bump, and the extra RAM (384MB more in 17").

bottom line, there is a significant speed increase in the 17".

as far as portability, i carry it in a Zero Halliburton case (which fits it beautifully). it largely goes to and from work, so it's not a big deal for me. if you plan on carrying it long distances, it might get a tad inconvenient, as it's a bit cumbersome ... or at least much more so than the 12", which can be tossed into any backpack.

let's see, what else? it's certainly not flimsy, and in many ways is more rugged than its 15" predecessor. the AE is great, and wireless reception on a whole is superb. (right now, im streaming my entire iTunes playlist from home via 802.11b, while typing this).

[AssassyN]

For the purposes you've listed, the 17" PB would be my recommendation to you.

First off, there is a difference between 867Mhz and 1Ghz, escp. when it comes to editing and other CPU intensive tasks. And even more important than that is the 17" PBs addition of L3 cache, while the 12" PB has *no* L3 cache. Too, the 17" PB has a DVI-out that can output DVI, VGA (with included adapter), and ADC (with extra adapter), while the 12" PB only outputs VGA signals to an external display w/o expensive adapters to output otherwise. Battery life is slightly better on the 12" PB, however, the 17" PB is nothing to sneeze at. I've experienced a solid 3 hours of real world consistant usage, and the extra batteries are very light and thin, and very easy to carry around. Plus, you can put your machine to sleep, take one battery out, put a new one in, and wake it up with no damage whatsoever, which is a very nice feature. It basically holds all your data for the minute it takes to switch them. The 12" PB is noticeably hotter than the 17" PB during normal usage; if you plan on having it on your lap a majority of the time, the 12" PB may prove uncomfortable. Also, I have zero problems carrying my 17" PB, and I'm a pretty small fellow. I use a Brenthaven Shoulder Case for the 17" PB and it works perfectly. I wrote a review on this actual case that can be seen here: Click Here. Another advantage of the 17" PB is that it can hold 1GIG of RAM, whereas the 12" PB only holds 640MB, and RAM is crucial in heavy computing tasks.

Best of luck in your choice, and feel free to post any other questions!

[wallinbl]

I just saw the 17" in person for the first time at lunch today. That's insane! I really like the screen resolution. The Apple Store was nice enough to let me test remote desktop connection w/ Windows Terminal Server. Looks like it works well (I still have work I need to do in Windows at client sites).

Do you find the 17" to be difficult to handle? Do you find it heavy if you grab it with one hand to remove it from a bag and are holding it with it hanging down from your hand (as opposed to reaching all the way down and grabbing it from the bottom)? How about when it is on your lap (or desk), screen open - do you feel that you can handle it well with just one hand?

My concern when looking at the 17" is that it is going to be difficult to handle when going from bag to table to lap to couch to lap to etc. This may seem a minor concern to some, but it will be of importance to my wife (who will also use it).

To clarify - the video editing is entirely a personal thing, not a professional thing. I'll probably buy FCE, because I'm the type of person that will find iMovie insufficient, but it will mostly be for home movies. If I get proficient at it, I may start advertising it to clients, but I don't perceive much of a need for it. I have no particular need for DVI at this point.

[morlium]

it's definitely a two-hand machine.

it certainly can be lifted with one hand, but the smoothness and the size lends to the support of both hands. it's not the type of laptop that can be grabbed off of a table, but it does fit in my lap quite well; even more so than the iBook that I used to own.

the 17" is what it says it is - a desktop replacement. it can be moved easily, but it shouldn't be bought on the grounds of portability (if that makes sense). if your primary concern is movement, then i'd get the 12".

[ujeni]

How powerful is the 12"?

Well, I am working for the BBC and will be using my 12" to create a documentary in the middle of Africa! This thing will be doing 3d, video compositing and editing all in the field. I have no doubt that it will perform great. Final Cut Pro and Shake scream on this thing.

The 17" is a great machine too....but it is NOT portable. It is moveable. The 12" is a true laptop. Can you imagine backpacking through Africa on a video shoot with a 17" powerbook?

17" er's don't get mad....you have an awesome desktop replacement. But the 12"ers truely have the best of both portability and power.

[beanman]

For working in a country such as Africa, you bet that the 12" is the way to go.

But commuting from work and home, the 17" is very nice. I take mine to and from work all the time, in addition to class and studying. I do some web site design work and love the ability to have a browser on one side of the screen and my HTML editor on the other.

If you plan to have all sorts of applications open while doing your work on the go, I would have to say that the screen space of the 17" is awesome. I'm sitting in my living room right now on a wireless connection and this thing fits beautifully in my lap.

However, if extreme portability is your thing, consider the 12". Either way, I think you'll be quite satisfied with whatever you purchase.

[wallinbl]

Originally posted by ujeni:
Final Cut Pro and Shake scream on this thing.

You have actually used FCP on it? I'm assuming FCE will have bascially comparable performance. I keep hearing little things like the L3 cache and whatnot.

[slffl]

It amazes me when people say the 17" isn't portable. IMO, it is EASY to move around and very portable.

It much easier to use the 17" on your lap than other laptops because of it's width.

I usually carry it in a sleeve and slide it out flat rather than grabbing and lifting vertically.

When I went back to using a 15" Inspiron 8500 after using the 17" for a few weeks, the 15" seemed small.

Closed, I hold it like a book with one hand. Open, I hold it with the screen hinge in my palm with one hand easily. To pick it up off of a table I always use 2 hands, no big deal.

If I was a student still and wanted to take it to class, around campus, etc. I would probably get the 12". For using at work, home on the couch, in bed, etc. the 17" is no problem and I think the width really is a positive when it comes to using it this way.

[Kenstee]

Wallinbl, why not compromise and wait for the AL 15" due in a few weeks?

All this 17" vs. 12" talk is like arguing religion anyway. In the end one is not better than the other. It's all about what feels best to you and meets your needs.

You'll have buyer's remorse after any purchase no matter what you decide!

[badnewsblair]

Hands down! 17-inch all the way! If you plan on doing any FCP then you will want the 17. Any FCP work on the 12 will get you nothing but a headache (well, any significant work on it). It just does not have the space and power! It is worth the extra money! I love it and will never go back.

... and by the way, the 17-inch is extremely portable. As I said before in one of my prerelease reviews of the 17, the 17 is lighter than my girlfriend's 15 inch Dell Inspiron, and its thinner. I'd rather carry this around than any PEECEE desktop!

[wallinbl]

Originally posted by Kenstee:
Wallinbl, why not compromise and wait for the AL 15" due in a few weeks?

If I wait three weeks, and it is still not released, do I still wait? I have to buy at some point. I'd like the 15" AlBook if it were available, but it's not. I'd like a 970 based PowerBook, but that's not available, either. I've been wanting one for a while, and my desire has caught up to me. It's time to buy (well, I probably won't actually make the purchase for another two weeks).

[beanman]

I'm sure some one has said it before, but the longer you wait, the more you will have new products coming out with something better and you'll keep waiting. And the thing is too, ordering new products from Apple is never a sure fire bet. Granted that many of us have heard rumors all over that warehouses are stocking up with the new 15" AlBooks and are just waiting for a release date. But once again, they are rumors.

Just because you are waiting to purchase to find the right machine for you doesn't mean that once you purchase, you'll have that computer by next week. Delivery time can be a pain, especially on brand new products. You might have already thought of this, but thought I would share my thought.

[xylon]

Just my two cents...

I love my 17" and would suggest it for you, not just out of love for it. I'm basically doing the same things as you on it (Dreamweaver, PHP, etc) as well as being a full time student (Word, Keynote, etc). The 17" has resulted in a large boost in my productivity because of the larger screen and faster RAM and L3 cache.

As for that 19" screen you have laying around, you may find that a 12" and that 19" monitor will give you enough screen realestate. However, my friend has two 17" monitors and it fits all of his applications perfectly. You may find that the 12" and 19" may not satisfy your webdesign needs.

Portability is a large sticking issue for many people. I had intended this computer to basically be a portable desktop, ie it would never leave my desk until I had to go home for the summer. However, I find myself carrying it around everywhere. It is a bit heavy, but I quickly grew accustomed to the extra weight. I have no trouble carrying it between classes now.

I hope that clears up some of the issues you may have been having about the 17".

[macxtal]

I wonder what everyone would recommend if the 15" were available. It really makes me wonder if a 15" albook is going to materialize. I don't think Apple has ever stated the TiBook is going to be replaced... or continued.

It seems that the 15" would offer all of the benefits of the 17", with none of the downsides to the 12". That makes me very suspicious. The burner for me is the lack of DVI on the 12". That makes it much more an acessory to a desktop mac than a standalone computer in it's own right.

I'm really thinking about a 17", now, though. Anytime I actually -need- to use a notebook, I have room. I think I can swing an upgrade on our next project, too.

I'd get the 17" if I were you. The 12" comes with a very large performance hit over it for the kinds of applications you mentioned - video, liking CPU, and development, liking RAM.

[baglunch]

The 12" is definitely enough muscle to do work, maybe not as fast as the 17" but it'll get the job done if portability is the key factor in your decision. Personally, for video editing and motion graphics, I could not live with the 1024x768 resolution of the 12". Regardless of how portable it is, it'd take me up to twice as long to get anything done at that resolution (zoom in, zoom out, zoom in, zoom out, zoom in, zoom out). Portability is really relative, when I need to bring my laptop (17") with me when I'm shooting in the field, an extra 2 pounds really doesn't make much of a difference in relation to the 20-50 other pounds i'm lugging around in camera and lighting gear.

[Crusoe]

We definitely need a new 15". I need a decent screen size, battery life, portablility, lots of cache, good wireless range and bluetooth. Neither the 12" or the 17" cover all these. The 17" would be fine if the battery life was a bit better (portablility is objective). The 15" would give me the right balance.

For the original question, cache is you friend and it'll improve your video editing performance. If you can set a deadline for when you need a new mac set it. If the 15" comes out before that deadline compare and buy, if not, buy what you have decided on base on our opinions and your own research. If I were you and had to buy today I'd buy the 17".

[wallinbl]

Originally posted by Crusoe:
For the original question, cache is you friend and it'll improve your video editing performance. If you can set a deadline for when you need a new mac set it. If the 15" comes out before that deadline compare and buy, if not, buy what you have decided on base on our opinions and your own research. If I were you and had to buy today I'd buy the 17".

I'm going to buy in two weeks. If, in two weeks, every single rumor site agrees that a 15" update is imminent, then I will wait.