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kman42 · Jun 26, 2003, 11:50 AM

Check it out here:

http://www.macosxhints.com/article.p...51677#comments

kman

::maroma:: · Jun 26, 2003, 12:05 PM

Anyone try this yet? I'm very interested in how well it works. I'm at work right now, with no access to iChat.

kman42 · Jun 26, 2003, 08:31 PM

I thought all you Europeans would be psyched about this.

kman

BGK · Jun 26, 2003, 10:50 PM

yes, this business works for me. does Al Gore have an ICQ number?

Mac Guru · Jun 26, 2003, 11:34 PM

I can't get it to work, my buddies show as offline even though they aren't... how am I supposed to make this work?

Mac Guru

Xeo · Jun 27, 2003, 01:13 AM

Originally posted by Mac Guru:
I can't get it to work, my buddies show as offline even though they aren't... how am I supposed to make this work?

Mac Guru

Are your buddies using the latest and greatest version of ICQ? It sounds like that's a requirement.

Cipher13 · Jun 27, 2003, 02:42 AM

Handy, but iChat still blows.

I'll stick to using ICQ + irssi + Adium

Espen Isaksen · Jun 27, 2003, 03:26 AM

I thought all you Europeans would be psyched about this.

I won't be psyched until it works for MSN as well. Don't know a single soul using either ICQ or AIM.

ARENA · Jun 27, 2003, 03:55 AM

Originally posted by Espen Isaksen:
I won't be psyched until it works for MSN as well. Don't know a single soul using either ICQ or AIM.

Same here

Hozie · Jun 27, 2003, 04:57 AM

Originally posted by ARENA:
Same here

Yeah, I'll third that... C'mon Apple, get the MSN protocol in there and a lot of us will be happy... even if the video and audio don't work with MSN users!

Espen Isaksen · Jun 27, 2003, 05:04 AM

Originally posted by Hozie:
Yeah, I'll third that... C'mon Apple, get the MSN protocol in there and a lot of us will be happy... even if the video and audio don't work with MSN users!

Well I really don't care if Apple make this thing or not. I do actually find Messenger for OSX quite ok. I just need to be able to videochat with my friend in Greenland(who is using a PC) using MSN.

I might just try to go back to iVisit. Does somebody have experiences they would like to share about this app.

Appleman · Jun 27, 2003, 07:11 AM

I don't understand why they do not support the other protocols. If the people from Epicware (Fire) can do it, then why Apple cannot come up with this?

What have Europeans to do with ICQ?
Most friends use MSN, since 95% of the world think they need to use cheaper computers and a stupid OS.

Make iChat ready for all protocols and get rid of the stupid 600 MHz thing: I can do Yahoo! Messenger cam with 400 MHz.

A long way to go.

Espen Isaksen · Jun 27, 2003, 07:18 AM

Originally posted by Appleman:
If the people from Epicware (Fire) can do it, then why Apple cannot come up with this?

Probably not cannot, more like will not.

gorickey · Jun 27, 2003, 08:06 AM

Originally posted by Appleman:
I don't understand why they do not support the other protocols. If the people from Epicware (Fire) can do it, then why Apple cannot come up with this?

Is Epicware (Fire) paying for the protocol access they are using? For example, are they paying both AOL and ICQ to use their servers/information? I highly doubt they are (never used "Fire"), that is one HUGE reason as to why Apple may not use more then one protocol. Plus, it becomes bloatware after awhile and doesn't really fit into their "AV" options when you add more and more protocols with those services that do not support such features.

Appleman · Jun 27, 2003, 08:15 AM

Originally posted by gorickey:
...doesn't really fit into their "AV" options when you add more and more protocols with those services that do not support such features....

Might be for the AV, but Fire works very well for me, when I just use text chat. Before I wrote an Applescript that opened Yahoo! Messenger, ICQ, MSN, then I replaced that with Fire.
As I understand it, these other services are kind of open standards, so paying is out of the question. Moreover, Fire is freeware.

iNeusch · Jun 27, 2003, 08:23 AM

Originally posted by gorickey:
Is Epicware (Fire) paying for the protocol access they are using? For example, are they paying both AOL and ICQ to use their servers/information? I highly doubt they are (never used "Fire"), that is one HUGE reason as to why Apple may not use more then one protocol. Plus, it becomes bloatware after awhile and doesn't really fit into their "AV" options when you add more and more protocols with those services that do not support such features.

Apple has nothing to do with the new ICQ compatibility, it's just because ICQ and AOL merged and that AOL wanted a perfect compatibility

Espen Isaksen · Jun 27, 2003, 08:25 AM

Originally posted by gorickey:
Is Epicware (Fire) paying for the protocol access they are using?

So how come Apple has to pay and not Epicware? Is it because Apple wants to stay "clean" whilst Epicware don't care as long as they don't get sued. Or doesn't it actually cost anything?

Appleman · Jun 27, 2003, 08:32 AM

Originally posted by Espen Isaksen:
So how come Apple has to pay and not Epicware? Is it because Apple wants to stay "clean" whilst Epicware don't care as long as they don't get sued. Or doesn't it actually cost anything?

From the Epicware Fire page:
----------------------------
Fire is a multi-protocol internet instant messaging client based on freely available libraries for each service. It is released under the GNU GPL. All services are built off of GPL'd libraries, including firetalk, libicq2000, libmsn, jabber, and libyahoo (Linux libraries).

Fire can handle similtaneous connections to AIM�, ICQ�, Yahoo!� , IRC, MSN� and Jabber.

Fire is not affiliated with AOL-Time Warner, Microsoft or Yahoo!�.
----------------------------

So to me it means it's free and Apple can include it as well

- - e r i k - - · Jun 27, 2003, 08:58 AM

No iChat for me unless it supports MSN.

Proteus is the absolutely best of the bunch. There's not even a contest anymore since version 3.0 came.

iNeusch · Jun 27, 2003, 09:06 AM

Originally posted by - - e r i k - -:
No iChat for me unless it supports MSN.

Proteus is the absolutely best of the bunch. There's not even a contest anymore since version 3.0 came.

Proteus is very good.. that's true...
but no buddy picture like in iChat (handy on my Rendez-Vous list) and still MSN bugs (disconnection)

Gee4orce · Jun 27, 2003, 09:10 AM

iChat AV works perfectly through my companies firewall - and picks up the preferences from the Network config, so I don't have to reconfigure it when I get home. No other Mac chat software works as well as this.

kman42 · Jun 27, 2003, 10:18 AM

Originally posted by Appleman:

What have Europeans to do with ICQ?
Most friends use MSN, since 95% of the world think they need to use cheaper computers and a stupid OS.

I wasn't trying to be offensive; I just remember reading that most non-US people didn't like iChat because it was AIM only and I thought a few people mentioned that they wanted ICQ. Apparently, lots of people want MSN as well.

Unless Apple can interoperate with MSN video chat, I doubt we will see MSN compatibility in iChat. It might be frowned upon if you can video chat with some people and not others and Apple could view it as lessening the user experience by reducing consistency. Just a thought.

Make iChat ready for all protocols and get rid of the stupid 600 MHz thing: I can do Yahoo! Messenger cam with 400 MHz.

As was pointed out in a very nice NYT article a couple days ago, Apple is about quality of features, while MS is about quantity. They specifically pointed out that while Messenger video chat works over 56k, it is choppy and absolutely sucks. iChat video is limited to a broadband connection and a fast computer to make the user experience as good as possible. I wouldn't count on Apple reducing the specs if they can't make it work beautifully. They might be able to in the end, but don't count on a half-ass product on a slower machine. It's just not Apple's style. They'd rather preclude you from using it altogether, for good or bad.

kman

bamburg dunes · Jun 27, 2003, 10:25 AM

Originally posted by Cipher13:
Handy, but iChat still blows.

I'll stick to using ICQ + irssi + Adium

I'm using proteus but would like to try Adium. The links to it from version tracker are broken, know where I can grab it from?

Thanks

jokell82 · Jun 27, 2003, 10:38 AM

Originally posted by Appleman:
From the Epicware Fire page:
----------------------------
Fire is a multi-protocol internet instant messaging client based on freely available libraries for each service. It is released under the GNU GPL. All services are built off of GPL'd libraries, including firetalk, libicq2000, libmsn, jabber, and libyahoo (Linux libraries).

Fire can handle similtaneous connections to AIM�, ICQ�, Yahoo!� , IRC, MSN� and Jabber.

Fire is not affiliated with AOL-Time Warner, Microsoft or Yahoo!�.
----------------------------

So to me it means it's free and Apple can include it as well

It's the last line that Apple is paying for. Apple actually made a deal with AOL and is the first third party AIM software that is licensed by AOL. This means that AOL has opened up all of their protocols to Apple for them to look at and program. Developers making unlicensed programs are simply reverse engineering the protocols, which is why they have problems when the AOL (et al) upgrade their protocols.

So if Apple wanted to add MSN, they'd want to do it right, which would mean licensing the product from MSN so they could get access to all the code. I'd be willing to bet that Microsoft wouldn't make it cheap, either...

Appleman · Jun 27, 2003, 11:15 AM

Originally posted by bamburg dunes:
I'm using proteus but would like to try Adium. The links to it from version tracker are broken, know where I can grab it from?

Thanks

The link seems fine (now?)

bamburg dunes · Jun 27, 2003, 12:37 PM

Cheers Appleman, worked a treat that link.

allap · Jun 27, 2003, 01:06 PM

I'd like to see all the big Instant Messengers merge together to allow all the clients chat to one another. When you send an E-mail, does it matter if the guy receiving it has a @hotmail.com address, or a @mac.com address? Or whether he's using Outlook, or Mail.app? I seriously don't see how IM is any diffrent than Email in this way. Please if you know, enlighten me.

Appleman · Jun 27, 2003, 02:04 PM

Originally posted by allap:
...Or whether he's using Outlook, or Mail.app?...

I did send an email to someone with a Windows '98 system.
I included a sound in Entourage, but he couldn't open it...
I guess you have standards and standards.

frawgz · Jun 27, 2003, 04:29 PM

Server interoperability is a vastly different thing from multi-IM clients. Because iChat is an AIM client, it won't ever communicate with MSN clients until the protocol/server supports it.

Apple CAN add MSN support in (with the consent of Microsoft), but then you as a user would have to have two screennames, and sign into both every time you go online. This isn't so much the problem as having to deal with interface issues (different smilies and different capabilities for users on a merged buddy list), or even capability issues (you can't create a chat room that includes both an MSN user and an AOL user).

The problem with using free, reverse-engineered libraries is they're not officially sanctioned, and are therefore frequently incomplete, or can break any time without warning.

Michel Fortin · Jun 27, 2003, 08:39 PM

I installed iChat AV today and from what I saw I believe Apple is going to add at least another service to it soon. That's because when you start a chat, the message in gray at the top now indicate you're using AIM. Also, in the preferences there is an Accounts page (notice plural form).

I bet it'll be ICQ since that one too belongs to AOL and they are already unifying both protocols so that AIM and ICQ accounts can talk together. There is also an agreement from last month between AOL and Microsoft to allow AIM and MSN to interoperate. That could mean great future for iChat, instant messaging and videoconferencing. Lets hope things run out for the best.

Apfhex · Jun 28, 2003, 06:37 AM

Originally posted by Michel Fortin:
There is also an agreement from last month between AOL and Microsoft to allow AIM and MSN to interoperate. That could mean great future for iChat, instant messaging and videoconferencing. Lets hope things run out for the best.

Eh??

Well, whatever they end up doing, the only thing I want from iChat AV is the ability to have video chats with PC users (on AIM or MSN), as I know some people that I'd love to have video chats with, but they all use Windows.

Appleman · Jun 28, 2003, 07:10 AM

Originally posted by Apfhex:
Well, whatever they end up doing, the only thing I want from iChat AV is the ability to have video chats with PC users (on AIM or MSN), as I know some people that I'd love to have video chats with, but they all use Windows.

Convince them to get a Mac!

mdc · 10:05 AM

has anyone gotten icq contacts in iChat AV to chat with an icq/icq lite user on a windows machine?

i can not get it to work. she is onlline, i just got her to install the latest icq lite, but my ichat av just displays her full name but offline.

Nerozwei · Jun 29, 2003, 03:05 PM

Originally posted by Espen Isaksen:
I won't be psyched until it works for MSN as well. Don't know a single soul using either ICQ or AIM.

Same here. AIM and ICQ are out.. Switchers get used to MSN and don't switch to any other networks.

BTW: Nice photos there.. I really should make a trip to Norway

dadder · Jun 29, 2003, 03:31 PM

I believe there's a bigger picture here. My guess is that Apple intends on trying to get everyone used to using iChat/AOL via their Mac only and not the other guys because with this move Apple could become our new telephone system. The very first 'truly free' long distance over IP. Apple's on to something. If they let the other guys in on what they're doing, less people would buy into the iChat AV, iSight system. If you have even $150/mo phone bills, you'd have your new Mac paid for within a year.
Nice.

sniffer · Jun 29, 2003, 05:26 PM

I really hope ICQ and AIM/.mac merge. This would have been really convinient for me. Especially since iChat is so integrated within the system. My communication with my coworkers goes trough ICQ since it works trough our tight firewall at work. I have a few friends "over there" where I use AIM with. My closest friends here all use MSN, but I don't care much about that or MSN since those who matters are more accessible on my cell phone than online anyway. And also the freaking app always notice me that it is offline after sleep mode. Why can't it just check the connection it self?

godzookie2k · Jun 29, 2003, 06:40 PM

since the mac icq client isn't aol compatible, I have no way of testing, doesn't appear that anyone on my buddy list has the latest and greatest....

KidRed · Jun 29, 2003, 09:33 PM

I don't know anyone who uses MSN. 100+ people mostly business related who all use ICQ on their PC. Proteus is the best but I love iChat, and wish it would hurry up and get ICQ support.

Appleman · Jun 30, 2003, 02:30 AM

Originally posted by dadder:
I believe there's a bigger picture here. My guess is that Apple intends on trying to get everyone used to using iChat/AOL via their Mac only and not the other guys because with this move Apple could become our new telephone system. The very first 'truly free' long distance over IP. Apple's on to something. If they let the other guys in on what they're doing, less people would buy into the iChat AV, iSight system. If you have even $150/mo phone bills, you'd have your new Mac paid for within a year.
Nice.

Yes, and you can call only 5% of the computer using people on earth who have to have their computers on 24/7...

Espen Isaksen · Jun 30, 2003, 05:40 AM

Originally posted by sniffer:
And also the freaking app always notice me that it is offline after sleep mode. Why can't it just check the connection it self?

I know! This is probably the worst thing about the Messenger app.

I think I may switch to Proteus...

dadder · Jun 30, 2003, 11:27 PM

Originally posted by Appleman:
Yes, and you can call only 5% of the computer using people on earth who have to have their computers on 24/7...

lol - ya, true. Maybe my hopes are the ones that are bigger... ha!

The DJ · Jul 1, 2003, 01:48 PM

http://www.versiontracker.com/dyn/moreinfo/macosx/9973

Version 3.4 ICQ for Mac enables you to add AIM and AOL users to your contact list and chat with them.

Webscreamer · Jul 1, 2003, 02:19 PM

Originally posted by Espen Isaksen:
I won't be psyched until it works for MSN as well. Don't know a single soul using either ICQ or AIM.

You have to to be kidding me... I don't know one soul who uses MSN or Yahoo. Everybody uses AIM seems to me, and a few ICQ.

xmacintosh · Jul 1, 2003, 04:15 PM

Originally posted by The DJ:
http://www.versiontracker.com/dyn/moreinfo/macosx/9973

Version 3.4 ICQ for Mac enables you to add AIM and AOL users to your contact list and chat with them.

That's great!!!

Millennium · Jul 1, 2003, 04:29 PM

Originally posted by Appleman:
I don't understand why they do not support the other protocols. If the people from Epicware (Fire) can do it, then why Apple cannot come up with this?

Because Fire is on very shaky legal ground already. Theoretically, Microsoft could sue, though they don't appear to consider Epicware to be worth the trouble of suing at the moment. You can bet, though, that they would sue Apple. And there's no way they would license the protocol to Apple, so frankly, even if they wanted to implement the protocol, they probably couldn't.

gotterdamm · Jul 1, 2003, 11:01 PM

Okay, anyone gotten the newest ICQ beta and iChat AV to talk to each other yet?

I try, but it shows my iChat account as "offline" even though it isn't.

Spliff · Jul 2, 2003, 03:29 AM

Originally posted by Appleman:
Convince them to get a Mac!

I did. They (three of them got slot-load iMacs). They've since switched over to PCs because they're a better value. They initially loved their Macs, but they've become very hostile towards Apple and its pricing of hardware. They constantly point out how cheap their high-end PCs are.

Zimphire · Jul 2, 2003, 09:49 AM

Originally posted by - - e r i k - -:

Proteus is the absolutely best of the bunch. There's not even a contest anymore since version 3.0 came.

Except for the buggy non working file sends, and no voice or video support and..

I could go on.

Zimphire · Jul 2, 2003, 09:52 AM

Originally posted by Nerozwei:
Same here. AIM and ICQ are out.. Switchers get used to MSN and don't switch to any other networks.

Is that why AIM and ICQ separately have a bigger user base?

MSN is struggling.

godzookie2k · Jul 3, 2003, 08:18 AM

still can't get it to work right, I can get icq to see my aim account, and I can receive messages from icq in ichat, but I cant respond. poo, I was pretty excited too.