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sandman · Jul 10, 2003, 04:19 PM

I am at school right now on a university network connection and my roommate gets considerbly higher bandwith to his Windows machine than I do to my Mac. At home I am on a cable modem and I get faster download speeds than I'm getting here, while my roommate gets faster speeds here than I do at home. Any ideas why this might be happening?

Moose · Jul 10, 2003, 04:22 PM

Originally posted by sandman:
I am at school right now on a university network connection and my roommate gets considerbly higher bandwith to his Windows machine than I do to my Mac. At home I am on a cable modem and I get faster download speeds than I'm getting here, while my roommate gets faster speeds here than I do at home. Any ideas why this might be happening?

Which programs are being used on each platform? Downloading from the same server?

More information is needed.

eyadams · Jul 10, 2003, 04:46 PM

There are several reasons why one computer (any kind) might get better network performance. One obvious one is that his PC has a faster network card than your Mac.

Then there's network settings. It is possible that your Mac runs at half duplex when connected to the Univeristy network, while the PC is running at full duplex. If you're running OS X there are ways to check this via the terminal that have been documented on the Internet in several places.

If your network settings are more or less the same, the next thing to look at would be how you are testing your bandwidth. The various bandwidth testing web sites are simply not reliable. I've seen the same machine score significantly different results depending on what version of Java was being used, what browser was being used, how much traffic was on the local subnet, etc.

If, after all this, your Mac just feels slower when browsing the web, there are still dozens of possible reasons for this. For example, you may be browsing web sites served by Windows machines, which tend to favor Windows clients.

Finally, your Mac may just be slower than the PC. Without A LOT more detail, there's isn't much in the way of specific help anyone is going to be able to give you.

dvwannabe · Jul 10, 2003, 04:56 PM

I've noticed the same thing when using the Bandwidth Checker at CNET.

My friends PC is much more bandwidth than my MAC and we're in the same building.

JLL · Jul 10, 2003, 05:03 PM

When you're on a fast connection you should use BroadbandOptimizer or execute the following commands in Terminal:

sudo sysctl -w net.inet.tcp.sendspace=65536

sudo sysctl -w net.inet.tcp.recvspace=65536

sudo sysctl -w net.inet.tcp.delayed_ack=0

sudo sysctl -w net.inet.udp.recvspace=73728

coolmacdude · Jul 10, 2003, 05:53 PM

Originally posted by JLL:
When you're on a fast connection you should use BroadbandOptimizer or execute the following commands in Terminal:

sudo sysctl -w net.inet.tcp.sendspace=65536

sudo sysctl -w net.inet.tcp.recvspace=65536

sudo sysctl -w net.inet.tcp.delayed_ack=0

sudo sysctl -w net.inet.udp.recvspace=73728

Depending on the speed of your connection (I have OC3) you may want to set those values even higher. What this changes is the size of the TCP and UDP receive window spaces. This controls how much data you can download before your computer is required to send an acknowledgement packet to the server. If it is too low, these packets can clog up your data stream slowing you down. That is why Windows 98 and lower are extremely slow on broadband. The default setting on all those is 8192.

wataru · Jul 10, 2003, 06:47 PM

Originally posted by dvwannabe:
I've noticed the same thing when using the Bandwidth Checker at CNET.

My friends PC is much more bandwidth than my MAC and we're in the same building.

Well, like someone already said, bandwidth checking things like that are largely dependent on how fast your machine can execute Java code, so they are NOT an accurate measure of your bandwidth.

Try downloading a file from a large, reliable commercial source (like the dev tools from Apple or something) and look at a bandwidth meter like top or Menu Meters or something.

And, it's "Mac," not "MAC." "MAC" means "machine address code."

bracken · Jul 10, 2003, 06:59 PM

Before BroadbandOptimizer:

Code:
net.inet.tcp.sendspace: 32768
net.inet.tcp.recvspace: 32768
net.inet.tcp.delayed_ack: 1
net.inet.udp.recvspace: 42080

After BroadbandOptimizer:

Code:
net.inet.tcp.sendspace: 65536
net.inet.tcp.recvspace: 65536
net.inet.tcp.delayed_ack: 0
net.inet.udp.recvspace: 73728

Brass · Jul 10, 2003, 08:19 PM

Originally posted by sandman:
I am at school right now on a university network connection and my roommate gets considerbly higher bandwith to his Windows machine than I do to my Mac. At home I am on a cable modem and I get faster download speeds than I'm getting here, while my roommate gets faster speeds here than I do at home. Any ideas why this might be happening?

I don't think it's a matter of "getting" higher bandwidth, it's more a matter of USING more of the bandwidth that's available. If you have both got the same network access, then you both have the same bandwidth. It's a matter of how well your system uses that bandwidth.

msuper69 · Jul 10, 2003, 08:55 PM

Originally posted by wataru:

And, it's "Mac," not "MAC." "MAC" means "machine address code."

Bzzzzzzzzt! Wrong answer.

Try "media access control".

http://www.techtutorials.info/netmac.html

wataru · Jul 10, 2003, 11:58 PM

Originally posted by msuper69:
Bzzzzzzzzt! Wrong answer.

Try "media access control".

http://www.techtutorials.info/netmac.html

http://www.macopinion.com/columns/tangible/03/03/14/
http://www.oswego.edu/~help/mac_addresses.html

According to this one, it's both:
http://www.aleeya.net/modules.php?na...onyms&letter=M

So bzzzzzzzzt to you too.

sandman · Jul 11, 2003, 12:52 AM

I ran broadband optimizer and things feel a bit faster, but I forgot to stress that the main area where I am seeing a difference between my machine and my roommates PC is in downloading. I have seen him get over 250 KBps while I'm getting roughly 60 KBps on the same exact download from the same server. Again, it has to be specific to this network because a PC on my home network gets the same download rates as my Mac at home. And I know the PC at home is very comparable to my rommate's PC.

Don Pickett · Jul 11, 2003, 01:18 AM

Originally posted by JLL:
When you're on a fast connection you should use BroadbandOptimizer or execute the following commands in Terminal:

sudo sysctl -w net.inet.tcp.sendspace=65536

sudo sysctl -w net.inet.tcp.recvspace=65536

sudo sysctl -w net.inet.tcp.delayed_ack=0

sudo sysctl -w net.inet.udp.recvspace=73728

I have gone even higgher:

Code:
net.inet.tcp.sendspace: 131072
net.inet.tcp.recvspace: 131072

BrettOZ · Jul 11, 2003, 01:51 AM

Originally posted by sandman:
I ran broadband optimizer and things feel a bit faster, but I forgot to stress that the main area where I am seeing a difference between my machine and my roommates PC is in downloading. I have seen him get over 250 KBps while I'm getting roughly 60 KBps on the same exact download from the same server. Again, it has to be specific to this network because a PC on my home network gets the same download rates as my Mac at home. And I know the PC at home is very comparable to my rommate's PC.

Is this when you are both gettting the file at the same time? If it is on the same network - maybe one version is cached on the UNI network?(whoever got it first may have been slow and then once on the UNI network it is faster) This may be why one person is faster than the other?

Just a thought

vasu · Jul 11, 2003, 02:43 AM

is it a web download? what browser are you using?

I download 10meg PDFs for a newsletter everyday and if I was downloading them in Internet Explorer they wouldn't come in any faster than 60-80K/sec but when I'd download in Safari or Camino or OmniWeb they'd come in in the 200k/sec.

Also, as previous people said, check to see if your ethernet is running at half duplex or full duplex.

if you open a terminal and punch in

Code:
ifconfig en0

and look to see if it says media (not supported media) it'll say either half or full duplex.

-vasu

King Bob On The Cob · Jul 11, 2003, 03:14 AM

Are you downloading on Download Accelerators or are you letting Safari and Internet Explorer do the downloading?

Angus_D · Jul 11, 2003, 08:55 AM

Originally posted by coolmacdude:
Depending on the speed of your connection (I have OC3)

You have WHAT?!?!?!!?!? *drool*

sandman · Jul 11, 2003, 12:15 PM

Originally posted by vasu:
is it a web download? what browser are you using?

I download 10meg PDFs for a newsletter everyday and if I was downloading them in Internet Explorer they wouldn't come in any faster than 60-80K/sec but when I'd download in Safari or Camino or OmniWeb they'd come in in the 200k/sec.

Also, as previous people said, check to see if your ethernet is running at half duplex or full duplex.

if you open a terminal and punch in

Code:
ifconfig en0

and look to see if it says media (not supported media) it'll say either half or full duplex.

-vasu

It appears to be running at half duplex. How do I change it to full duplex?

Groovy · Jul 11, 2003, 01:52 PM

terminal window:

To view the current ethernet settings:
% ifconfig
To change to full duplex:
% sudo ifconfig en0 mediaopt full-duplex
To change back to half duplex:
% sudo ifconfig en0 mediaopt half-duplex
To force a different speed (your network/hub/router/modem must also support this speed!):
% sudo ifconfig en0 media 10baseT/UTP mediaopt full-duplex [or]
% sudo ifconfig en0 media 100baseTX mediaopt full-duplex [etc...]
Check the output of 'ifconfig' to see the supported media types for your ethernet card.

sandman · Jul 11, 2003, 03:09 PM

Originally posted by Groovy:
terminal window:

To view the current ethernet settings:
% ifconfig
To change to full duplex:
% sudo ifconfig en0 mediaopt full-duplex
To change back to half duplex:
% sudo ifconfig en0 mediaopt half-duplex
To force a different speed (your network/hub/router/modem must also support this speed!):
% sudo ifconfig en0 media 10baseT/UTP mediaopt full-duplex [or]
% sudo ifconfig en0 media 100baseTX mediaopt full-duplex [etc...]
Check the output of 'ifconfig' to see the supported media types for your ethernet card.

en0: flags=8863<UP,BROADCAST,SMART,RUNNING,SIMPLEX,MULT ICAST> mtu 1500
inet6 fe80::20a:95ff:fea0:e606%en0 prefixlen 64 scopeid 0x5
inet 128.227.190.184 netmask 0xffffff00 broadcast 128.227.190.255
ether 00:0a:95:a0:e6:06
media: autoselect (10baseT/UTP <half-duplex>) status: active
supported media: none autoselect 10baseT/UTP <half-duplex> 10baseT/UTP <half-duplex,hw-loopback> 10baseT/UTP <full-duplex> 10baseT/UTP <full-duplex,hw-loopback> 100baseTX <half-duplex> 100baseTX <half-duplex,hw-loopback> 100baseTX <full-duplex> 100baseTX <full-duplex,hw-loopback> 1000baseTX <full-duplex> 1000baseTX <full-duplex,hw-loopback> 1000baseTX <full-duplex,flow-control> 1000baseTX <full-duplex,flow-control,hw-loopback>

Terminal reports this AFTER I ran your code to change to full-duplex. What did I do wrong?

rantweasel · 03:44 PM

Originally posted by wataru:
And, it's "Mac," not "MAC." "MAC" means "machine address code."

Don't you mean Media Access Control?</pedantic> Noting, of course, that the RFCs where ethernet is defined refer to it in such a manner, or as a 48-bit IEEE 802 address, or as a hardware address... But really, not as a "machine address code".

coolmacdude · Jul 11, 2003, 05:07 PM

Originally posted by Angus_D:
You have WHAT?!?!?!!?!? *drool*

Yes, university connections are nice aren't they.

Superchicken · Jul 11, 2003, 06:10 PM

a friend has a T3 at a college once and I thought she was lucky... OC3... dude... sadly my college doesn't even get broadband PERIOD it's all dial up sadly...

he can you run broad band optimiser and then go in a phone line? Once I get my Power Book I'll be going online at home and at the school in my dorm.

intastella · Jul 11, 2003, 06:29 PM

"sudo sysctl -w net.inet.udp.recvspace=73728"

What is that one?

I could set the other three with Cocktail (my weapon of choice) but not that last one.

Don

sandman · Jul 11, 2003, 06:56 PM

Anyone on the changing to full-duplex question?

Graymalkin · Jul 11, 2003, 08:25 PM

Originally posted by sandman:
Anyone on the changing to full-duplex question?

To view the current ethernet settings:
% ifconfig
To change to full duplex:
% sudo ifconfig en0 mediaopt full-duplex
To change back to half duplex:
% sudo ifconfig en0 mediaopt half-duplex
To force a different speed (your network/hub/router/modem must also support this speed!):
% sudo ifconfig en0 media 10baseT/UTP mediaopt full-duplex [or]
% sudo ifconfig en0 media 100baseTX mediaopt full-duplex [etc...]
Check the output of 'ifconfig' to see the supported media types for your ethernet card.

Please pay attention.

Don Pickett · Jul 11, 2003, 09:52 PM

Originally posted by Graymalkin:
Please pay attention.

You pay attention:

Terminal reports this AFTER I ran your code to change to full-duplex. What did I do wrong?

I have the same issue. Anyone know why it didn't change?

Spliffdaddy · Jul 11, 2003, 11:44 PM

User-friendly, huh?

bmedina · Jul 12, 2003, 01:16 AM

In Panther, the option is right in the Networking system prefs.

wadesworld · Jul 12, 2003, 02:01 AM

It may be that you left the media type as autoselect, and it selected half-duplex after attempting negotiation.

Try:

sudo ifconfig en0 media 10baseT/UTP mediaopt full-duplex

Additionally, it'd be good to know if the PC that's getting the faster download speed is working as full-duplex.

Wade

Graymalkin · Jul 12, 2003, 02:22 AM

Originally posted by Don Pickett:
You pay attention:

Terminal reports this AFTER I ran your code to change to full-duplex. What did I do wrong?

I have the same issue. Anyone know why it didn't change?

I was typing that while sandman was. Take a nap.

teknologika · Jul 12, 2003, 09:22 AM

I was working at a client once when the switch didn't like auto-select on the windoze machines at all, once we set the adapter to match the switch (full duplex) it was fine, so you may have a similar problem.

Have you tried taking your mac to the other room, as you may be on different networks or switches and the whole speed thing may be beyond your control.

Another possibility is the switch, the port on the switch or the cabling may be faulty. So I would try relocating and testing first to eliminate them as potential causes.

wadesworld · Jul 12, 2003, 10:00 AM

The thing to remember about autonegotiation is that there is no standard for it. With both PC's and Mac's, it's very hit or miss. It will work with your friend's PC, but not work with your Mac. And then it won't work with a different brand of PC. It's very random.

In such situations, the only way to fix it is to set the speed and duplex manually, and have whomever is responsible for the switch do the same thing on the switch port.

Wade

sandman · Jul 13, 2003, 06:08 PM

Originally posted by wadesworld:
It may be that you left the media type as autoselect, and it selected half-duplex after attempting negotiation.

Try:

sudo ifconfig en0 media 10baseT/UTP mediaopt full-duplex

Additionally, it'd be good to know if the PC that's getting the faster download speed is working as full-duplex.

Wade

This code gave in an i/o error and then made my ethernet inactive. I rebooted and it reactivated again at half-duplex. I would REALLY like to know how to change to full-duplex as I am sitting on a very FAST connection and I'm getting HORRIBLE bandwith.

Thanks.

sandman · Jul 13, 2003, 06:23 PM

Originally posted by teknologika:
I was working at a client once when the switch didn't like auto-select on the windoze machines at all, once we set the adapter to match the switch (full duplex) it was fine, so you may have a similar problem.

Have you tried taking your mac to the other room, as you may be on different networks or switches and the whole speed thing may be beyond your control.

Another possibility is the switch, the port on the switch or the cabling may be faulty. So I would try relocating and testing first to eliminate them as potential causes.

I've already done this by the way.

sandman · Jul 13, 2003, 06:24 PM

double post

Deicide · Jul 13, 2003, 06:26 PM

It is probably the way your Mac is responding to the switch or hub you are plugged into. The ethernet controller�s apple uses are very picky only like auto negotiate. For example:

At my work we use Cisco 2900 series switches. If the switch is set to force anything the Macs get very poor network performance. If I set the port on the switch to 100 full duplex then any Mac with a 10/100 built in nick will only get like 50K/sec download but upload will be like 8MB/sec. If I set the switch to auto for speed and duplex then it is fast up and down. In my experience MacOS X without any terminal network tweaks is very good. I can backup MacOS X Retropsect clients over the network and the user doesn't even notice a drop in performance. The Windows clients start feeling very laggy and the user complains.

sandman · Jul 13, 2003, 07:03 PM

Originally posted by Deicide:
It is probably the way your Mac is responding to the switch or hub you are plugged into. The ethernet controller�s apple uses are very picky only like auto negotiate. For example:

At my work we use Cisco 2900 series switches. If the switch is set to force anything the Macs get very poor network performance. If I set the port on the switch to 100 full duplex then any Mac with a 10/100 built in nick will only get like 50K/sec download but upload will be like 8MB/sec. If I set the switch to auto for speed and duplex then it is fast up and down. In my experience MacOS X without any terminal network tweaks is very good. I can backup MacOS X Retropsect clients over the network and the user doesn't even notice a drop in performance. The Windows clients start feeling very laggy and the user complains.

So my options are none?

Stratus Fear · Jul 13, 2003, 08:28 PM

Originally posted by wataru:
Well, like someone already said, bandwidth checking things like that are largely dependent on how fast your machine can execute Java code, so they are NOT an accurate measure of your bandwidth.

On a fairly fast machine, it isn't horribly inaccurate since the internet connection is the bottleneck, not the speed at which the machine can execute Java code.

And, AFAIK, Cnet doesn't use a Java app for their bandwidth tester -- DSLReports.com does.

DBvader · Jul 13, 2003, 09:05 PM

hm...this is a really intrseting thread, especially considering i was seeing much of the same thing back at school (though im back for summer now)

when i was on direct connect, i would see that all the other computers in my suite (all PCs), would get insane bandwidth (>1.0 MBPS) off DC. yet i would be stuck around 400-600 K (never more, never less). kids seemed to download off me at speeds over IMBPS, but i couldnt do the same...do you think that the above mentioned things would fix that when i go back to school? or are macs-PC network transfer rates slower than PC-PC network transfer rates? lastly, if i did the things in the sforementioned posts, would it effect my cable modem speeds at all?

thanks for the help in advance.

Synotic · Jul 14, 2003, 06:35 AM

Originally posted by DBvader:
hm...this is a really intrseting thread, especially considering i was seeing much of the same thing back at school (though im back for summer now)

when i was on direct connect, i would see that all the other computers in my suite (all PCs), would get insane bandwidth (>1.0 MBPS) off DC. yet i would be stuck around 400-600 K (never more, never less). kids seemed to download off me at speeds over IMBPS, but i couldnt do the same...do you think that the above mentioned things would fix that when i go back to school? or are macs-PC network transfer rates slower than PC-PC network transfer rates? lastly, if i did the things in the sforementioned posts, would it effect my cable modem speeds at all?

thanks for the help in advance.

Are these remote or LAN downloads? I believe I could get 1-4 MB on the LAN but when the network was mostly unused, if I ever downloaded remotely, I'd reach the same 400-600KB limit. This is was on a TiBook 1 GHz. I guess I'll to try some of these tips when I get back.

DBvader · Jul 14, 2003, 11:38 AM

well, on the DC server, it was mostly UC kids, so transfers were over internet 2. my roomate seemed to get consistently faster speeds than i did. it was weird.

im just wondering if i should do these now, and maybe i wont see the slower speeds when i get back to school

Jim Paradise · Jul 14, 2003, 01:53 PM

A friend of mine works in the IT department at the regional schoolboard, and a year ago he brought up in a discussion that Apple has never been able to provide the schoolboard with an answer as to why the network (broadband) is slower on Apple hardware... He had said that in most cases it was almost half as slow.

rantweasel · Jul 14, 2003, 05:21 PM

Originally posted by sandman:
Terminal reports this AFTER I ran your code to change to full-duplex. What did I do wrong?

Maybe nothing. First, find out what your roommate's computer is set to. If the roomie's computer is set to full duplex, then you should try to set yours to full duplex as well. Duplex mismatches can cause horrible network performance problems, and auto-negotiation is terrible at matching a fixed duplex on the other end, so you'd likely need to manually set the duplex on your computer. If the roomie's computer is set to half duplex, then you likely are fine duplex-wise, and need to tune some kernel options (see broadband optimizer). This is something that Windows gamers have been aware of for years - by tuning the TCP stack to match your connection, you can get a faster connection. The OS X default is halfway between optimized for broadband and optimized for modem, and it's really much closer to optimized for modem use. If you have DSL, cable modem, or a handy gigapop, this is essential.

mathias

ratlater · Jul 14, 2003, 07:11 PM

As mentioned above, you should find out what your roomies PC is set to. If the switch/hub that you connect to is set at half-duplex, you can't set yours to full. The port on the switch/hub must match your settings. You can ask your university what the switch/hub is set to. Just e-mail their network support people and ask them if your wallport is full or half-duplex and ask them whether the connection is 10baseT or 10/100. Also be sure to give them your room number and building name.

I'm guessing the reason your connection died before is there was a duplex mismatch. Your university might not support full duplex connections to your wallport.

-matt

sandman · Jul 14, 2003, 08:10 PM

After further investigation it seems we are both running at half-duplex and my ethernet terminal settings are matched to the connection, so the poster above who mentioned the mystery of Macs being slower on school networks is reinforced.

King Bob On The Cob · Jul 15, 2003, 12:32 PM

Originally posted by sandman:
After further investigation it seems we are both running at half-duplex and my ethernet terminal settings are matched to the connection, so the poster above who mentioned the mystery of Macs being slower on school networks is reinforced.

Maybe M$ lies (The old download speed thing was crap in 95 and 98). It would say I was downloading at 50 kb/sec in Virtual PC but menu meters was saying 35 kb/sec consistently.

superlarry · Jul 15, 2003, 09:28 PM

Originally posted by King Bob On The Cob:
Maybe M$ lies (The old download speed thing was crap in 95 and 98). It would say I was downloading at 50 kb/sec in Virtual PC but menu meters was saying 35 kb/sec consistently.

good point - try timing identical downloads on your mac and your roommate's pc to see if they really take the same amount of time. windows tends to exaggerate.

sandman · Jul 15, 2003, 09:40 PM

Originally posted by superlarry:
good point - try timing identical downloads on your mac and your roommate's pc to see if they really take the same amount of time. windows tends to exaggerate.

I would tend to agree about Windows cheating, but in this case it is too significant of a difference for this phenomenon to apply.

ginoledesma · Jul 16, 2003, 09:33 PM

I notice the same thing in both school (multiple E1 connections) and at home (Cable connection). My PC (Windows 2000) seems to be getting slightly better throughput than my Mac (beit with or without download accelerators). I've already adjusted my Mac's network settings (TCP window size et al).

I actually tried running a 'test bench' to see which had better throughput. I connected my PC to a 10/100 switch which has another PC (running Linux) connected to it. FTP/SMB/NFS tests showed my PC sustaining around 8-12MB/s transfer rates. When I removed the PC and plugged in my Mac, I was only getting 6-8MB/s transfer rates.

I'm only inclined to believe that my PC has a better LAN card, though. The Linux PC has an Intel Pro/100+ card and the Windows PC has a 3Com 3C905TX-NM/Intel EEpro/100 card, whereas my Mac is using the built in card it has.