[graphics84]

I've posted letters on three forums stating pretty much the same thing and I've generated about 50-100 responses and all of them are very critical of AI 9 (and Adobe)....

Now even as I write this I have Illustrator 9 open and running on my main computer... for all the bad there still is enough good that I haven't gone back to AI 8 or even switched to Freehand...

but doesn't Adobe listen to it's customers or has it (as suggested by a few responses) turned it's back on the customers simply because it think it can put out a half finished program to keep us from switching over to a version of Freehand 9 (been out a lot longer) until it works out the quirks from AI 9 releasing 9.01 (seems to be how adobe does business)

or... is Adobe following the Apple path and just getting a some what finished version done so it can pacify the masses until it has a full Mac OS X VERSION (hopefully carbonized).....

either way I was robbed of a lot of valuable time and creative energy dealing with this piece of...

....wait until MacWorld... If you see a guy pissed off at the Adobe both it'll be me

even so... what will that accomplish.... all these forms don't seem to have an effect either....

Adobe if you are listing do something and tell you customers what's happening or lose us...


respond to these problems!!!! give me a reason to want to use your products

I work in the prepress department of a large commercial printer, and we received Illustrator 9 as part of our maintenance agreement with Adobe (kind of like a subscription: we pay $xxx/year and receive any and all upgrades automatically). We were all pretty happy with the program initially, though we all felt the program was more like Illustrator 8.5, without enough really new features to warrant a full version update.

I have since removed the program from all production machines due to some serious data corruption problems and general bugginess. The death blow for Adobe came when we experienced 3 or 4 instances in the first week of use. We found that often an EPS file generated or modified within Ill9, when saved, would not print correctly and then couldn't be opened again in Illustrator (ironically, the last time this happened, I was able to open the artwork in Freehand 9 and effect repairs). I keep the program on a non-production machine, and will try out any patches Adobe releases, but I'm afraid Illustrator 10 (and Photoshop 7) will be out before a bug fix for 9.

Adobe needs to slow down their upgrade cycle, focus on quality over flash, and get back to the needs of their core customers. The designer in me really likes the results I can get from Illustrator, but the pragmatic production guy in me much prefers Freehand's simple interface and predictable output (Quark vs PageMaker/InDesign, same argument).

I agree. I work as a web designer for a HUGE .com in Santa Clara.

ILLUSTRATOR 9 IS SH!T. Features are cool, but it's like the New Shelby Cobra, lots of flash and cash, but about as reliable as a Yugo.

We bought (2) Illstr.9 as the standard upgrade, but we only got 1 of 9 and 1 of 8.1.

But that worked out for the better...

Hate to say it, 8.1 is more stable, less buggy and doesn't have file corruption issues. Heck, my poor fellow designer had some 9 files get bad on her and if we didn't have a copy of 8.1 on my machine, we'd be eating sh!t.

I've been cruising Adobe's website near daily for a patch....
Still ain't there.

Yeah, we're REALLY close to going to Freehand.

[martyrart]

Maybe you guys should switch to FreeHand.

Using illustrator is like using Windows.

Think Different!

I am currently teaching Illustrator 9 and we have nothing but headaches. Especially with printing gradient meshes and saving files. We also notice some version conversion problems, including saving a file from 8 to 9 to be very buggy. I told my boss that I am not teaching Illustrator 9 again until Adobe comes out with fixes. Almost all of my students purchased Freehand instead of Illustrator. I even switched to Freehand 9.01 which is by far awesome!

The Only Reason Freehand is even at version 9 is because they skipped over a version number to seem as if they were ahead of Adobe. This kind of BS competition was made worse by the pinheads who look at what version a program is simply to get the latest and greatest, whether or not it actually WORKS.

Adobe is known for basically putting out a half-assed product and then fixing it later. I'll still never switch to Freehand simply because AI has a better interface and works better with other programs. AI 9 is so full of bugs it's ridiculus. I have been waiting for years for the transparency features, and only use 9 now when i need that kind of effect. One more bug i haven't seen mentioned... printing from AI 9 to a networked printer labels the file as being two pages, thus charging you double (if the printer costs per page).

[mkurland]

It's true... Macromedia skipped a version number on FreeHand, which I thought was pretty scuzzy at the time. In retrospect, I think they pretty much *had* to. Adobe jumped from version 3 to version 5 without ever releasing an Illustrator 4. Deneba never released a Canvas 4.

Furthermore, Adobe (as is clear from Illustrator 9) has little compunction against upping their major version number on a new release, despite the lack of sufficient new features to warrant that.

Historically FreeHand and Illustrator have always pretty much run neck-to-neck on performance and features. These products have been very competitive for a long time.

Given the fact that there are a certain number of buyers that give undue weight to the version number when making a purchasing decision, Macromedia would be handicapped by having a comparable product with a lower version number. Heck, they'd be handicapped having a *superior* product with a lower version number.

[ggirton]

I'm pretty happy with Illustrator 9, but then I never had 8 to compare it with, and I'm not using it in production, but just to learn illustrator. I tried Freehand, and found that it had a really neat feature of being able to use the canvas to store a whole bunch of images. Unfortunately when you did that it would produce a huge file that would crash and take it all along with it.

I noticed someone here had problems printing gradient meshes, but that doesn't really surprise me. It's a new feature and the manual specifically warns against printing them except on a Postscript 3 printer and gives some workarounds if you do have problems.

The only production difference with Ill9 for me is its ability to read DWG and DXF files which is a handy thing for me. Otherwise, the new layer capabilities seem a bit confusing and overly difficult. Still no multiple pages after all this time!!! I've not see the file corruption yet, but did have a problem with 9 importing a PDF file created in 8. 9 left out some of the elements! 9 is also slower.

I give the upgrade a B-/C+.

Originally posted by blorntso:
Adobe is known for basically putting out a half-assed product and then fixing it later. I'll still never switch to Freehand simply because AI has a better interface and works better with other programs. AI 9 is so full of bugs it's ridiculus. I have been waiting for years for the transparency features, and only use 9 now when i need that kind of effect.

Funny, have you tried exporting these effects? Notice that it gets rasterized to a bitmap object when output to a non-PS 3 device or even to another application that doesn't recognize this new Postscript rendering engine? How much better off are you than using PhotoShop for these very same effects? AI 9 is more like Macromedia's Fireworks (hmmm where's that lawsuit again?).

I'll stick with FreeHand for PRINT and the fact that it's seemless integration with Flash and Fireworks (yes and even Photoshop for you Adobe lovers).

Cheers!

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Ian Kelleigh
[email protected]
"The FreeHand Source" http://www.FreeHandSource.com

[This message has been edited by ikelleigh (edited 10-24-2000).]

[graphics84]

I just wish Adobe would step up and be responsible for there products faults

even if they are working on an update.... how about letting us know... it would shut me up

[andi*pandi]

interesting post... yes, adobe has gotten more microsoftian in its policies on upgrades/support.

I've got the adobe pack with AI8, and an old version of freehand 5.5, which I loved. On the fence about upgrading freehand, tho, $$. Have copy of canvas which I've barely broken out of the box. Looked cool in the demo... :shrugs:

btw, there was an AI4, I believe, but only for windows--before you get pi**ed that they released it for windows not mac, a) it sucked and b) pcs didn't get another upgrade for a looong time after that--AI5.5, I think. The release of AI4 for windows was a strategic move on Adobe's part to crush corel. I think it worked...

Originally posted by ikelleigh:
Funny, have you tried exporting these effects? Notice that it gets rasterized to a bitmap object when output to a non-PS 3 device or even to another application that doesn't recognize this new Postscript rendering engine? How much better off are you than using PhotoShop for these very same effects? AI 9 is more like Macromedia's Fireworks (hmmm where's that lawsuit again?).

I'll stick with FreeHand for PRINT and the fact that it's seemless integration with Flash and Fireworks (yes and even Photoshop for you Adobe lovers).

Cheers!

yeah i know what you mean... if you hadn't figured out the way around it having to rasterize the vector format for the transparency, you can export ai8 files from version 9, with the transparencies being made into shapes themselves, so it keeps the same appearance. I'm mostly a print designer and typographer. It isn't really an issue of using photoshop or illustrator.. they are two programs with two different uses. i do a lot of typesetting in illustrator, and photoshop lacks the necessary typogaphic controls. it is also necessary for me to work in vectors as opposed to rasters on most occasions. SO FOR EVERYONE OUT THERE WHO IS GOING TO BUY 9.0, KEEP A COPY OF 8.0 TO PRINT FROM!!

well......

first - AI9 DOES NOT SUCK!!!!!!!! i did not have any problems w/ file corruption or printing problems. it is truth that we are using the newest line of xerox and tektronix printers......

the problem of AI [and i am very supprised that neither one of you noticed it] is that it changed its engine from postsript to pdf!!!!!! you can verify that by simply opening AI9 file in AI8 and you will get a message about opening a pdf file, or by opening/comparing an AI8 and an AI9 file in some file viewer [eg CanOpener]......

so - that is the thing that is the reason for slower redraw [apple's QuickDraw is based on postscript engine, right? some conversion has to be done.... hope OS X will change that.....?], problems with non-PS Level III printers [pdf is a PS III native format - you should be able to drop it directly to spool.....]......... also - that is a reason that, finaly - there is a REAL transparency in a vector drawing package.....

final - you really have great tool/workflow improvements in AI9....... styles, layer manipulation, great PSD file format handling........ it, definitely deserves A-!!!!!!!! everything comes with a price to pay for - this time - it is RAM!

[l008com]

I've been using AI9 since just about right when it came out,and I have not ran across a SINGLE bug. The only thing I don't like about it is how long the baby takes to start up now, even on 500MHz! Also, I was dissapointed with the transparance, I don't want objects to be transparent, I want transparent to be a color, so i can add it to a gradient, and/or a mesh, that would be great. Full object transparacy is alright, just not what I was expecting. (And honestly, I don't see why everyone thinks it's so great)

------------------
I see dead people.

All I have to say is, Deneba Canvas 7.0. Accelerated for velocity engine, and a pleasure to use.

------------------

Funny how I was slammed for my previous gripe about Adobe and AI 9 and now everyone is singing a different tune. Apology accepted

As for the comment about the price of AI 9 is lots of RAM ........ I have a 500 mhz G4 with 512 megs of RAM and AI 9 still crawls. I agree that some issues are with the engine and native PDF but this upgrade is ridiculous. We'll see what happens with OS X but I'm still waiting for Adobe to acknowledge this crap and put out a bug fix as well as think twice about ripping off its customers.

It's all about Freehand 9 and AI 8