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diamondsw · Sep 12, 2003, 10:32 AM

Originally posted by superblue:
That is one excellent choice by Apple! You can see the music video for it here: http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio1/chat/dan...opp_eple.shtml

And a better video of Royksopp's here: http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio1/urban/vi...remindme.shtml

Okay, I want to know what the hubbub is about - can someone post this new movie? I *really* liked the snow one...

Anand · Sep 12, 2003, 11:07 AM

Does anyone know if SMB or AFP shares mount in this new built? Also, can you allow non account holder to connect to your machine?

Spheric Harlot · Sep 12, 2003, 11:27 AM

Originally posted by neilw:
Well, that makes one of us. I've seen others complain about this before as well, so I know I'm not the only one.

It seems to work in Mozilla variants and IE because it's specifically coded into those apps, but it doesn't work in Safari or elsewhere in the OS. And yes, I have "Full Keyboard Access" enabled, with "Any Control".

I'm sorry to hear that. It works in Mail, which is where I use it most.

It does NOT work in webpages. That is something quite different.

I thought you were talking about system control, as in fixed interface elements in software. I've not had any problems with those.

-s*

qnxde · Sep 12, 2003, 11:47 AM

Originally posted by jasong:
Just out of curiosity, If you switch to another user with Admin rights, can you kill the screensaver from that user account and thereby bypass the security setting on the screensaver?

-- Jason

With regards to this, I am still using 7B21 but I have noticed that screensaver authentication is not handled by ScreenSaverEngine.app as it used to be, it is now handled by loginwindow (the process that spawns all of your programs) so it is impossible to bypass, if you kill loginwindow, all your apps disappear and you are dumped back at the login panel.

I don't know if this action would affect all running users (via fast user switching) or only the current one. I suppose it would depend whether each user has it's own copy of loginwindow running. Maybe someone would like to try it, as it's 1:46 AM here and I need to go to bed

d0ubled0wn · Sep 12, 2003, 11:58 AM

Originally posted by SMacTech:
I eject my external drives often, as many times they will spin down when I am not using them. I don't like to wait for them to spin up or the noise.

You have a good point there. The problem is that it is too easy to accidentally click the eject widget. And how do you remount a HD once it has been ejected? In my case, I have a 2nd internal HD and I couldn't figure out how to remount it. When I tried to get into Disk Utility it froze on startup. (that was in 7b53, I should try it again.)

I believe the solution is to make a distinction between eject and unmount, the former strictly for removable media and the latter for devices. It should not be this easy to unmount a device.

TC · Sep 12, 2003, 12:04 PM

Can't they just distinguish between external and internal hard drives?
Only allow people to eject external hard drives, isn't it obvious?

SMacTech · Sep 12, 2003, 12:08 PM

Originally posted by Anand:
Does anyone know if SMB or AFP shares mount in this new built? Also, can you allow non account holder to connect to your machine?

Yes SMB and AFP mounts work fine. I dunno about the non account holder?

I believe the solution is to make a distinction between eject and unmount, the former strictly for removable media and the latter for devices. It should not be this easy to unmount a device.

You can't eject the disk if a file is in use. I know I have accidentally unmounted network shares.

Only allow people to eject external hard drives, isn't it obvious?

I also unmount internal hard drives as well, so I need that functionality.

CharlesS · Sep 12, 2003, 12:59 PM

Originally posted by Developer:
Actually, they will find it, if it's On by default. Then the keyboard menu is a more prominently visible place for the keycaps than an application in the Utilities folder.

Except that, at least in Jaguar, the keyboard menu is not even visible by default. New users will have to first figure out how to turn it on, after they discover its existence in the first place. And for those of us who like to leave the keyboard menu disabled in order to save menu bar space, there will be no way to check what keys are needed to type what, unless:

Originally posted by Zadian:
I don't know how it is in Panther but in Jaguar you can get a character palette in the keyboard menu. I use it fairly often to get those unusual characters and other glyphs that unicode provides. I think it's a very easy and useful way to access special characters.

Does this character palette show what keys on the keyboard can be used to type which characters, like the current Key Caps does, or does it only show what characters you can use?

zoe77 · Sep 12, 2003, 01:06 PM

Originally posted by diamondsw:
Okay, I want to know what the hubbub is about - can someone post this new movie? I *really* liked the snow one...

posted it here

neilw · Sep 12, 2003, 01:09 PM

Does this character palette show what keys on the keyboard can be used to type which characters, like the current Key Caps does, or does it only show what characters you can use?

Nope, though that'd sure be useful, eh?

You enable the palette via the Input Menu" tab on the International pref pane. I leave it up there all the time; handy to have around.

xi_hyperon · Sep 12, 2003, 01:12 PM

Originally posted by zoe77:
posted it here

I only get a broken movie icon when I load the page.

carmine · Sep 12, 2003, 01:22 PM

I am getting an incorrect password error when I try and connect to my other computer. I know I have the correct pass, does anyone else have this problem? both Cpu's are running 7b59.

Peabo · Sep 12, 2003, 01:33 PM

Someone tell me where he movie is on the install CD and I'll post it @_@

Anand · Sep 12, 2003, 01:51 PM

Originally posted by SMacTech:
Yes SMB and AFP mounts work fine. I dunno about the non account holder?

You can't eject the disk if a file is in use. I know I have accidentally unmounted network shares.

I also unmount internal hard drives as well, so I need that functionality.

Do the drives mount on the desktop?

SMacTech · Sep 12, 2003, 03:13 PM

Originally posted by Anand:
Do the drives mount on the desktop?

Yes, I see servers shares from both SMB and AFP on the desktop when preferences are set for that. I also see FTP servers on the Desktop too.

diamondsw · Sep 12, 2003, 04:04 PM

Originally posted by zoe77:
posted it here

Thanks! While I still much prefer the snow one (the swirling snow was just *too* cool), I'll agree that this fits in better with the image they're seemingly going for with Panther - the desktop picture, the logo, etc. However, this makes me wonder - they have coordinated desktops for the new movie, did they ever make coordinated desktops for the snow movie? I guess we'll never know.

diamondsw · Sep 12, 2003, 04:11 PM

Originally posted by TC:
Can't they just distinguish between external and internal hard drives?
Only allow people to eject external hard drives, isn't it obvious?

I think for most users, changing "Eject" to "Unmount" would work best. For the vast majority of users, disks have one partition, and for them the two are essentially the same. So no problem there. However, most people who are dealing with multiple partitions probably know a bit about them and would like to be able to selectively unmount single partitions. When all partitions for a particular device are unmounted, eject it.

Casual users will never notice the difference, power users get to unmount selective partitions, and you can always get the old eject functionality by ejecting all the partitions. Any kinks in this idea?

TC · 04:49 PM

We may be talking at cross purposes here.
The first post about this complained that he had an eject option next to an internal drive. It wasn't an issue of calling it eject or unmount, it was all about it not being appropriate for an internal hard disk.

SMacTech · Sep 12, 2003, 04:46 PM

Originally posted by TC:
Why in a normal day do you need to unmount an internal hard disk, whether it is part of a multi partitioned hard disk or not?

I have an internal 160GB drive I use only as a backup. I don't want it mounted all the time, as it spins down, even when I don't want it to. I have to at times, wait for it to spin up when using the Finder. So I want to unmount it. And what if the user is not a "power-user"?
An external drive is no different than an internal one, except FW vs IDE, an I ran out of space for more internal drives.

CharlesS · Sep 12, 2003, 04:56 PM

Originally posted by neilw:
Nope, though that'd sure be useful, eh?

You enable the palette via the Input Menu" tab on the International pref pane. I leave it up there all the time; handy to have around.

Okay, on the bright side, I'll probably get a few sales out of this, from people who want to extract Key Caps out of the old 10.2 packages. But still... this sucks.

I'm going to file a bug report...

TC · Sep 12, 2003, 04:57 PM

Originally posted by SMacTech:
I have an internal 160GB drive I use only as a backup. I don't want it mounted all the time, as it spins down, even when I don't want it to. I have to at times, wait for it to spin up when using the Finder. So I want to unmount it. And what if the user is not a "power-user"?
An external drive is no different than an internal one, except FW vs IDE, an I ran out of space for more internal drives.

Sorry, I already edited my original post before I saw your reply.
I'd have to argue that someone who has an internal 160GB drive just for backup is a power user.

An external drive is very different from an internal one. If you want to remove it from your computer you have to eject it first, if you don't you run the risk of damaging the data on it.

Replying again to the other post, why would someone want to unmount one partition on a drive? This would cause the hard disk to spin down, you would need to unmount a complete disk. So that means it's an issue for people with multiple disk not multiple partitions.

SMacTech · Sep 12, 2003, 05:04 PM

Originally posted by TC:
Sorry, I already edited my original post before I saw your reply.
I'd have to argue that someone who has an internal 160GB drive just for backup is a power user.

An external drive is very different from an internal one. If you want to remove it from your computer you have to eject it first, if you don't you run the risk of damaging the data on it.

Replying again to the other post, why would someone want to unmount one partition on a drive? This would cause the hard disk to spin down, you would need to unmount a complete disk. So that means it's an issue for people with multiple disk not multiple partitions.

You cannot unmount a single partition, at least I cannot, on my startup volume with 7B59. The unmount icon is active, but nothing happens, nor do I get any error dialogs.

My Dad has a 160GB internal drive too, and he definitely is NOT a power user. Does the size of the drive discern power?

He just drags it to the trash and reboots if he needs it. Although he knows how to use Disk utility to mount it again.

d0ubled0wn · Sep 12, 2003, 05:23 PM

Originally posted by SMacTech:
My Dad has a 160GB internal drive too, and he definitely is NOT a power user. Does the size of the drive discern power?
He just drags it to the trash and reboots if he needs it. Although he knows how to use Disk utility to mount it again.

Just FYI...
Disk Utility is still broke in 7b59 after unmounting an internal drive. It just hangs on startup, "Gathering disk information..." with the spinny wheel in motion.

SMacTech · Sep 12, 2003, 05:37 PM

Originally posted by d0ubled0wn:
Just FYI...
Disk Utility is still broke in 7b59 after unmounting an internal drive. It just hangs on startup, "Gathering disk information..." with the spinny wheel in motion.

Yes, just tried it and the same thing happens. I can drag the partition to the Trash and that unmounts it.

Moonray · Sep 12, 2003, 07:20 PM

Originally posted by CharlesS:

Okay, on the bright side, I'll probably get a few sales out of this, from people who want to extract Key Caps out of the old 10.2 packages. But still... this sucks.

I'm going to file a bug report...

Btw, it sucks also to make money writing gui wrappers for software (pax) that is freely available. Putting yourself at the end of a chain where hundreds of people before you have contributed their time for free, you being the only one charging money ridicules the idea of free software and open source.
(This is my opinion and I won't change it or explain it any further).

-

Developer · Sep 12, 2003, 07:31 PM

Originally posted by Moonray:
Btw, it sucks also to make money writing gui wrappers for software (pax) that is freely available. Putting yourself at the end of a chain where hundreds of people before you have contributed their time for free, you being the only one charging money ridicules the idea of free software and open source.
(This is my opinion and I won't change it or explain it any further).

And what sucks even more are people complaining about software not being free while sitting on their lazy ass and doing nothing themself.

besson3c · Sep 12, 2003, 08:00 PM

are you guys having problems with file name associations?

my .dmg files no longer mount without manually opening them in Disk Utility. Also, I've had some other files show up with a ridiculous assocation that I didn't set (e.g. treating an .rtf file as an .aif). I've trashed the LaunchServices.plist files.

I'm also having problems with some grid/redraw type problems at 800 x 600 (my native resolution). For this resolution, has anybody found a way for the menulings to not become all garbled up when switching between applications that have menus which intrude on the space allocated by the menulings? I've had this problem in all OS X versions I've used.

geekwagon · Sep 12, 2003, 08:22 PM

Originally posted by besson3c:
are you guys having problems with file name associations?

my .dmg files no longer mount without manually opening them in Disk Utility. Also, I've had some other files show up with a ridiculous assocation that I didn't set (e.g. treating an .rtf file as an .aif). I've trashed the LaunchServices.plist files.

Try deleting Library/Caches/com.apple.LaunchServices.6B.csstore and rebooting. That has always fixed that problem for me.

mikebat · Sep 12, 2003, 10:01 PM

Originally posted by teszeract:
I went to an Apple presentation a couple of days ago - of Panther and the G5 down down under here in NZ. Afterwards there were demos running of Panther in the foyer - not allowed to touch because "its beta" they said.

Hehe, I was at the same presentation and the woman kept on pressing F9, F10, F11 over and over again...

She let me use the computer tho, Font Book launched but wouldn't display its main window.. it seemed very speedy but anything probably does compared to our iMac at home

The build was 7b49 on a G4 of some kind

nforcer · Sep 12, 2003, 10:23 PM

Originally posted by SMacTech:
I have an internal 160GB drive I use only as a backup. I don't want it mounted all the time, as it spins down, even when I don't want it to. I have to at times, wait for it to spin up when using the Finder. So I want to unmount it. And what if the user is not a "power-user"?
An external drive is no different than an internal one, except FW vs IDE, an I ran out of space for more internal drives.

This is exactly what I use my external drive for (backup purposes). Not only is it unnecessary and more of a risk by being constantly mounted, but the noise the drive makes from vibrating can get rather loud and annoying sometimes, prompting me to move it so it will stop. Being able to mount and remount the drive easily is useful for me.

besson3c · Sep 12, 2003, 10:52 PM

Originally posted by geekwagon:
Try deleting Library/Caches/com.apple.LaunchServices.6B.csstore and rebooting. That has always fixed that problem for me.

Thanks very much! I had deleted this file, but didn't think of rebooting.. this fixed this problem, sort of. .Dmg files now mount properly, but some icons don't look the way they should (i.e. the default piece of paper icon). At least everything seems to function correctly now though.

I'm assuming this will be corrected with subsequent builds? Is there anything I can try to fix this problem?

Thanks again!

gorickey · Sep 12, 2003, 11:06 PM

They fix iSight and iChatAV integration in this build?

Musti · Sep 13, 2003, 12:43 AM

Originally posted by Moonray:
Btw, it sucks also to make money writing gui wrappers for software (pax) that is freely available. Putting yourself at the end of a chain where hundreds of people before you have contributed their time for free, you being the only one charging money ridicules the idea of free software and open source.
(This is my opinion and I won't change it or explain it any further).

-

Very nice.

geekwagon · Sep 13, 2003, 03:51 AM

Originally posted by besson3c:
Thanks very much! I had deleted this file, but didn't think of rebooting.. this fixed this problem, sort of. .Dmg files now mount properly, but some icons don't look the way they should (i.e. the default piece of paper icon). At least everything seems to function correctly now though.

I'm assuming this will be corrected with subsequent builds? Is there anything I can try to fix this problem?

Thanks again!

Not sure. I have only had that problem when I tempted fate and did an upgrade or archive and install rather than an erase and install over a previous beta. I think something in that process corrupts the file. I have never had a problem when I did an erase and install. I'm guessing that it wont be a problem for upgrading from Jag to the final release.

tRr · Sep 13, 2003, 05:06 AM

The Epson drivers are now under two differn't options when installing. Here is a clipping.

This package contains software for older EPSON inkjet printers. For additional models, see EPSON Printer Drivers 1. Only the package that supports your printer is required.

Inkjet printers supported: C40 Series, C60 Series, C70 Series, C80 Series, CC-500L, CC-550L, CC-700, CC-750, MC-2000, PM-720C, PM-730C, PM-740C, PM-780C, PM-790PT, PM-830C, PM-840C, PM-850PT, PM-880C, PM-890C, PM-900C, PM-920C, PM-930C, PM-950C, PM-970C, PM-3500C, Stylus Color 680, Stylus Color 740, Stylus Color 760, Stylus Color 777, Stylus Color 860, Stylus Color 880, Stylus Color 888, Stylus Color 900, Stylus Color 980, Stylus Photo 780, Stylus Photo 785EPX, Stylus Photo 810 Series, Stylus Photo 820 Series, Stylus Photo 830 Series, Stylus Photo 870, Stylus Photo 875DC, Stylus Photo 890, Stylus Photo 895, Stylus Photo 1270, and Stylus Photo 2000P"

There is also an update in Software Update "Panther Test Software Update v 2.0" with a picture of the Panther X embedded into the left of text area:

This Panther Update is being made available to test the Software Update feature in Panther. This update will install a read me file in /Users/Shared. Please install this update and provide us feedback via your normal channels.

http://www.apple.com/macosx/panther/

Software Update looks like its been updated a lot (might have been for awhile, I never really used it in the previous releases) but it now has plenty of eye candy in its resizing of the window and has the refinements of most of the other apps in Panther.

Simon · Sep 13, 2003, 05:08 AM

Originally posted by Zadian:
You have to activate that behaviour first in System Preferences - keyboard, full keyboard access (?).

There the "any control" has to be marked.

Maybe I'm just not getting it, but I have Jaguar and it bugs me to no end that I can't open a menu, press a letter and the selection jumps to that entry at once. All that works is arrow-up and arrow-down.

Great. Everytime I have to select my country in some list on the web I have to scroll down forever until I reach the letter u. Instead of just selecting the menu, pressing u or un or united etc. I get to scroll forever. I hate it.

addiecool · Sep 13, 2003, 05:34 AM

Panther created archives get deleted when you un-archive them. that is when you extract a zip file it deleted the ZIP Archive. Is there a way to stop it from happening.
this is annoying sometimes.

I hope there is an option in the final build

Jim Paradise · Sep 13, 2003, 05:45 AM

So I watch the new OS X intro film... very fitting blue and white background as per usual that matches Aqua nicely, the music fits, and then right at the end it goes to a quick black screen with the metal X...... Did that *NOT* seem out of place to anyone else?

Upon watching it again, it looks like the X logo from the X-Files.

Spheric Harlot · Sep 13, 2003, 07:08 AM

Originally posted by Simon:
Great. Everytime I have to select my country in some list on the web I have to scroll down forever until I reach the letter u. Instead of just selecting the menu, pressing u or un or united etc. I get to scroll forever. I hate it.

Easy workaround:

Move.

(to Afghanistan or Australia or some such place.)

-s*

iFix Rene · Sep 13, 2003, 08:09 AM

Originally posted by addiecool:
Panther created archives get deleted when you un-archive them. that is when you extract a zip file it deleted the ZIP Archive. Is there a way to stop it from happening.
this is annoying sometimes.

I hope there is an option in the final build

yup, agree... and a choice WHERE you want to save/expand archive would be kinda neat too.

d0ubled0wn · Sep 13, 2003, 09:08 AM

Originally posted by Simon:
Maybe I'm just not getting it, but I have Jaguar and it bugs me to no end that I can't open a menu, press a letter and the selection jumps to that entry at once. All that works is arrow-up and arrow-down.

Great. Everytime I have to select my country in some list on the web I have to scroll down forever until I reach the letter u. Instead of just selecting the menu, pressing u or un or united etc. I get to scroll forever. I hate it.

Many sites like ups.com put United States at the top of the menu, where it should be. <insert victorious patriotic music here, ie Rocky theme>

Before the flames start rolling in, I'm only joking.

Panther popup menus work the way you want them to, actually it seems all menus do, not just popups.

SMacTech · Sep 13, 2003, 09:59 AM

I really didn't notice the improved keyboard navigation in menus. Even my carbon app with contextual menus allow full keyboard control.

Taipan · Sep 13, 2003, 10:55 AM

Originally posted by addiecool:
Panther created archives get deleted when you un-archive them. that is when you extract a zip file it deleted the ZIP Archive. Is there a way to stop it from happening.
this is annoying sometimes.

Hi!

If I'm not mistaken, they are not deleted, but only moved into the trashcan. So it's not that much of a problem.

addiecool · Sep 13, 2003, 11:06 AM

DVD Player on 7B59 still does not work with all DVD's. Some work fine but some just show crap.

SMB shares give wrong file sizes in "Get info" for example I get 1.8 Gig file size in the Get Info though the file is only 230 MB. BTW we have a linux file server running Samba.

Overall a much better buil though

alex_kac · Sep 13, 2003, 11:39 AM

Originally posted by Spheric Harlot:
I'm sorry to hear that. It works in Mail, which is where I use it most.

It does NOT work in webpages. That is something quite different.

I thought you were talking about system control, as in fixed interface elements in software. I've not had any problems with those.

-s*

It does work everywhere that is system controlled. Safari's controls are NOT system controlled, so they are not keyboard navigatable (unfortunately).

alex_kac · Sep 13, 2003, 11:44 AM

Originally posted by gorickey:
They fix iSight and iChatAV integration in this build?

I was not able to use iChat and iSight in previous builds to b53. But as of b53 and definately b59, iSight and iChat work perfectly.

BTW, I had a hole slew of bugs I reported in b53. All of them were fixed in b59.

Zimphire · Sep 13, 2003, 12:07 PM

At least the title bar buttons are fixed. The middle one in the Graphite theme isn't oblong.

Simon · Sep 15, 2003, 08:06 AM

Originally posted by Spheric Harlot:
Easy workaround:
Move.
(to Afghanistan or Australia or some such place.)

Chris, thanks for that great suggestion!

Afghanistan seems like a nice, warm and quiet place.

Kabul, here I come!

Originally posted by d0ubled0wn:
Many sites like ups.com put United States at the top of the menu, where it should be. <insert victorious patriotic music here, ie Rocky theme>
Before the flames start rolling in, I'm only joking.

No, there's no need for any flame. You're absolutely 100% right. In fact, you're so right that the list-hosters actually decided to put every country at the top of the list since your idea solves this problem for so many countries. But, now there are 203 or so countries on top of the list, so I would really like the possibility of jumping to a letter.

Spheric Harlot · Sep 15, 2003, 08:27 AM

Originally posted by Simon:

Chris, thanks for that great suggestion!

Afghanistan seems like a nice, warm and quiet place.

Kabul, here I come!

<bender>
...another job well done.
</bender>

No, there's no need for any flame. You're absolutely 100% right. In fact, you're so right that the list-hosters actually decided to put every country at the top of the list since your idea solves this problem for so many countries. But, now there are 203 or so countries on top of the list, so I would really like the possibility of jumping to a letter.

-s*

CharlesS · Sep 15, 2003, 12:49 PM

Originally posted by d0ubled0wn:
Panther popup menus work the way you want them to, actually it seems all menus do, not just popups.

They finally implemented type-ahead for menus??

That is simply awesome! I've been wishing they would do this forever! The same functionality as Windows' Alt key functionality that the keyboard lovers keep crowing about, but implemented in such a more elegant way that doesn't require ugly underlines that you need to memorize. If you know what the name of the menu is, you know what keys you need to type.

This is sweet...