[Jim Paradise]

Here's my top most loathed Apple-produced software and yes, I'm aware that many of you enjoy these products and could give a shyte less about the opinions of others on them:

-Safari
I absolutely cannot stand the UI of it. I honestly think it has one of the most poor user interfaces and GUI's that Apple's ever produced for an OS X application. To my dismay, Camino has regressed by using a Safari-like bookmark system. Do I *really* need the entire window to be covered by bookmarks shyte when I just want to select a link quickly from a sidebar that doesn't intrude over top of the page I'm looking at?

At least there's Camino to use and perhaps OmniWeb 5.0 when it finally comes out.

-iPhoto
I use it almost daily, but that doesn't mean I like it. Maybe the newer versions is better with iLife, but I've seen just as good and if not better photo applications for OS X and XP. The only really good thing I find about iPhoto is the exporting options/.Mac integration, but that doesn't make the program any better to me. The speed of the program is horrendous.

-Panther Finder
Admittedly, I've only used it a few times, but I have nothing good to say about it. One of the absolutely annoying things about it is having to use Apple arrow-up to cycle backwards through folders opened in the sidebar holder (or whatever the deuce it's called). What is wrong with just showing the hierarchy of folders? Nothing. It's damned annoying to go through previous folders. I could ramble for ages about how much I hate the brushed metal Finder, but one of the worst things is how much it looks like an iApp and not like the Finder.


Yeah... I had to get that out of my system. Those are by far the applications that I find the most hideous for OS X in the 10.2/10.3 era. Now, I'm sure AppleWorks will get many a nod as the worst application. I can see why, but I still find it to be such an incredibly simple application to write essays with which is all I really need it for.

But there have to be a few applications produced by Apple that some of you can't stand for one reason or another. What are they?

[CharlesS]

Originally posted by Jim Paradise:
To my dismay, Camino has regressed by using a Safari-like bookmark system. Do I *really* need the entire window to be covered by bookmarks shyte when I just want to select a link quickly from a sidebar that doesn't intrude over top of the page I'm looking at?

At least there's Camino to use and perhaps OmniWeb 5.0 when it finally comes out.

Unfortunately, OmniWeb 5.0 also uses the Safari-style bookmarks that fill up the whole browser window. Don't ask me why - I much prefer the drawer as well.

[Developer]

I detest drawers. A split pane like in Finder, iTunes etc. is almost always better because it doesn't do this stupid windows resizing/moving.

[jparisi]

-Safari
I absolutely cannot stand the UI of it. I honestly think it has one of the most poor user interfaces and GUI's that Apple's ever produced for an OS X application. To my dismay, Camino has regressed by using a Safari-like bookmark system. Do I *really* need the entire window to be covered by bookmarks shyte when I just want to select a link quickly from a sidebar that doesn't intrude over top of the page I'm looking at?

Whats wrong with just using the bookmark menu/bar?

[OptimusG4]

AppleWorks.

[pete]

I second that. Apple works.

[BZ]

Sherlock.

Watson is 10 times faster and better.

BZ

[RevEvs]

hmmm well the programs that seem really un apple like, and just generally crap would be:

Appleworks
Sherlock

[brutal]

-iPhoto
I use it almost daily, but that doesn't mean I like it. Maybe the newer versions is better with iLife, but I've seen just as good and if not better photo applications for OS X and XP. The only really good thing I find about iPhoto is the exporting options/.Mac integration, but that doesn't make the program any better to me. The speed of the program is horrendous.

The new iPhoto is actually much faster than the old one.

[smw]

AppleWorks

[perryp]

Any app beginning with an 'i'

[hunkhuang]

Because of SAFARI, i switched from PC to Mac... i love Safari, it has the most simple interface that i have ever seen in Windozz...

Well, i don't like GarageBand...
I dont like the woody bars UI ...

[MacGorilla]

Originally posted by BZ:
Sherlock.

Watson is 10 times faster and better.

BZ

[Cadaver]

AppleWorks.

I can honestly say its the only Apple-produced application I would never consider using.

Back in the day, AppleWorks (aka ClarisWorks, aka AppleWorks) was great. But in its current state its so out of date it should just be put down like a rabid dog.

[Amorya]

I'll join the detesting Safari crowd. I think Safari's a good thing because it removes IE as default, but I really can't stand to use it!

Omniweb for me. It has its annoyances too but overall I think it's the best.


Amorya

[ambush]

- Xcode

Can't stand it. Too bad I have to use it almost everyday.

[el_humpo]

Care to vent your frustrations with Xcode? I think it's pretty spiffalicious, myself.

[CharlesS]

Granted, Xcode 1.0 was pretty bad. However, 1.1 is great!

[Truepop]

I hate iMovie. I don't know but when I someone was showing me iMovie 2.0 and FCP, I have to think Final Cut was easier and more intuitive. And now with all the slow downs and crappy brush metal, I have to think Apple needs to rethink that app.

[Luca Rescigno]

I like Safari myself, but I basically only use the bookmarks menu for storing anything, and my most-used ones are in the toolbar. The big full-screen sorting thing is stupid and I never use it.

I also like AppleWorks, if only for the "Drawing" and "Painting" modes. Those are the greatest. Simple, and basically the same as they were back in the day.

I am not a huge fan of QuickTime. It's okay, but it is not that great. It would be nice if there was something like an "iTunes for movies," and I don't mean iMovie. Maybe just adding a playlist window or drawer to QuickTime could do it.

Oh yeah, I also hate Sherlock. iCal is useful but not that good. Address Book could use some improvements but overall it's okay.

[Cincojoe]

Safari is ok until I tried Firebird today. I like this app, very fast.

Appleworks has to be the most worthless POS software ever created by any human being on this planet or mars.

[druber]

Must agree with AppleWorks. Trying to do anything with the AppleWorks spreadsheet is just murder. You have to hide the column headings so they won't print? Riiiiight.

[OreoCookie]

AppleWorks = joke. Better free alternatives. The updates are really a joke.

iPhoto. Tried browings and deleting pictures in a 4.5 gig library on a relatively new machine (one year) with maxed out RAM on an external hd? Don't. I hope version 4, I mean 3, will cure this problem. iPhoto is unusable in this state.

[MrBS]

Mail.app

~BS

[besson3c]

Originally posted by hunkhuang:
Because of SAFARI, i switched from PC to Mac... i love Safari, it has the most simple interface that i have ever seen in Windozz...

Well, i don't like GarageBand...
I dont like the woody bars UI ...

So the program doesn't have any merit whatsoever and is deemed "garbage" because it has woody bars?

[arekkusu]

Xcode is pretty terrible but Panther Finder is the worst. Any app using brushed metal gets an instant -1000 points.

[Jim Paradise]

Originally posted by arekkusu:
Xcode is pretty terrible but Panther Finder is the worst. Any app using brushed metal gets an instant -1000 points.

I whole-heartedly agree with this except iTunes. It's the only app that is decent with brushed metal, but everything else, oh yes, instant -1000. I think the only reason is because I'm used to the brushed metal look on iTunes. The worst brushed metal app, other than the Panther Finder, is iMovie. It makes no sense for it to be brushed metal and it takes up far too much screen space.

[Gee4orce]

What's the problem with Safari's bookmarks window ? If I'm organising or looking for a bookmark, I'd prefer to have the full window to work with, instead of a titchy drawer or inspector window.

[Jan Van Boghout]

Originally posted by el_humpo:
Care to vent your frustrations with Xcode? I think it's pretty spiffalicious, myself.

The number of different windows it spawns is what drives me mad. I love the UI enhancements, autocomplete (and am beginning to like the new inspectors for Info.plist), but PB's tabs were so much more convenient. I suppose I can live with it though

[Chuckit]

Originally posted by el_humpo:
Care to vent your frustrations with Xcode? I think it's pretty spiffalicious, myself.

I'd have to agree that Xcode can get really annoying. While it does have its good points, it seems to have taken a lot of what I liked about Project Builder and made it worse. It's still slow and crash-prone, the way it works is often obtuse ("Okay, which group do I get info on to change this setting again?"), it likes to pepper the screen with a million pointless windows, and the "errors and warnings" pane is practically useless.

[Jonesy]

I have to agree with everyone who slagged off AppleWorks. These latest updates are a joke. It should be consigned to the bin and replaced with a new version, or an announcement should be made that it is being discontinued so we can all go and buy something else.

[OreoCookie]

Originally posted by MrBS:
Mail.app

~BS

Nope, Mail is really great. I love it. Got all I need and more.

[Graymalkin]

The program I'm least fond of at the moment is iSync. It's really dandy that there's out of the box support for the iPod and various Palms. What unnerves me is the lack of support for a significant number of cell phones, especially ones without Bluetooth.

Apple could pretty easily release a couple generic drivers for USB-Serial converters. They all have the same functionality and most even use the same ASICs with simple packaging and line voltage differences. Once the line level signalling works the phones understand high level protocols iSync can use to interface with them.

[C.J. Moof]

Originally posted by Graymalkin:
The program I'm least fond of at the moment is iSync. It's really dandy that there's out of the box support for the iPod and various Palms. What unnerves me is the lack of support for a significant number of cell phones, especially ones without Bluetooth.

Steps it took to iSynch my Motorola V60s:

1) Define a subset of my contacts that I want in my phone- some of them are pure clutter in there, I want a more "focused" group.
2) Buy proper cable, plug into phone and computer. V60is is appears in iSync automagically.
3) Enable synching, choose the group from step 1, hit synch, and enjoy having just the contacts I want in my new phone.

I'd have to say iSync worked quite painlessly there.

[mitchell_pgh]

Originally posted by arekkusu:
Xcode is pretty terrible but Panther Finder is the worst. Any app using brushed metal gets an instant -1000 points.

I once thought this way, but it's grown on me... I move the feel of brushed metal.

[mitchell_pgh]

Originally posted by OreoCookie:
Nope, Mail is really great. I love it. Got all I need and more.

Same here... it's SO fast for production work... I go from Quark, to a PDF to mail in around 30 seconds...

AppleWorks is DEAD. I've been around the Mac world for some time now, and around 1998, you would still find people using it...

Not any more... I wonder if it's part of a strange deal with Microsoft...

If Appleworks was at the iTunes level, I would be amazed...

[CharlesS]

Originally posted by Jan Van Boghout:
The number of different windows it spawns is what drives me mad. I love the UI enhancements, autocomplete (and am beginning to like the new inspectors for Info.plist), but PB's tabs were so much more convenient. I suppose I can live with it though

I like working with multiple windows, so I guess I don't share this problem. Especially with Expos�, this seems like a good way to work.

However, you can use the single-window mode which used to drive me bats with Project Builder if you choose "Show Embedded Editor" from the View menu or click its toolbar icon.

[holderlin]

iDVD is the Apple product I dislike most. It does everything but burn a dvd!

Bob

[Hi I'm Ben]

iPhoto

and Mac OS X (kidding)

[holygoat]

I suppose iPhoto and AppleWorks, but it's more little things in all of them, e.g.:

• Mail doesn't show unread status in the Dock for any mails that you've sorted into folders. This makes your rules completely useless.
• Terminal doesn't close the window when the shell process closes (as with 'exit').
• You can't delete some files out of the Trash - empty all or none.
• Sherlock is too damn slow.
• iSync lacks all of the features that didn't suck in ActiveSync - e.g. selective conflict resolution, speed, syncing Notes, setting categories on the device, etc.
• The Finder is crap at laying out icons.
• xCode's Java code completion is rubbish, and it crashes all the time. Delphi is the best IDE I've ever seen, and xCode is nowhere near.
• There's no inbuilt support for the two things I'd like to do in iTunes - see the current track without switching applications, and change track similarly. Another Launcher does this perfectly - now just put it in iTunes, because I use LaunchBar!
• How about letting me put the full date in the Menu Bar Clock, eh?

I think I could go on for days. Which is odd, because mostly I'm happy!

[Buck_W]

I don't know if I would use the word "hate," but I've been using AppleWorks since 1997 and I've recently switched to Word. One of the things I liked about AppleWorks was its simplicity. But it is LONG overdue for an overhaul. I've been using Word now for several months and I am very pleased (after I turned off all the "auto-correction-features" - I truly hate those).

For what it's worth, I love Safari and I just purchased iLife '04... very sweet indeed!

[absmiths]

In defense of AppleWorks, it is a very old product (as has been stated). Back in the mid 90's, most Mac users I knew who had to buy their own software used Apple(Claris)Works and loved it. However, since then Apple has ignored it for so long as to force everyone to abandon ship. I imagine that there are quite a few high-profile users (like schools, etc) who still use it and that is why we see the updates. Almost all software from 1997 which hadn't been updated would look crappy against current packages.

I also am really fond of Safari (I actually love the bookmarks page - I find it less obtrusive than a menu with a dozen sub-menus, especially since it disappears after a selection without having to be closed).

GarageBand is my current favorite (who cares about the wood border - it's features rock!), and iTunes has been great. The Metal Finder has grown on me and I like it beter than Jaguar's Finder.

iPhoto is still problematic - even the 4.0 version. I don't hate it, but it definitely has some quirks (like never being able to delete the pictures off of my camera).

[typoon]

Appleworks. I no longer have it installed on my Machine. I discovered Mariner Write and it was all over. I only keep Office on here for those times I actually need to use it which is almost none.

I would have to say that Safari, Mail.app the NEW iPhoto have become my favorite apps.

I also really like the new finder. it is MUCH better than it was before

[-Q-]

Originally posted by Luca Rescigno:

I am not a huge fan of QuickTime. It's okay, but it is not that great. It would be nice if there was something like an "iTunes for movies," and I don't mean iMovie. Maybe just adding a playlist window or drawer to QuickTime could do it.

IIRC, they're used to be a drawer in QT Player where you could store clips. But it looks like that's gone and replaced with the 'Favorites' window (under, oddly enough, 'Favorites' menu). Seems to work as a bookmark-like thing.

I'd have to say the app I hate most is Mail, but not b/c it's a bad app. I hate it because it has so many things I like, but it just does stupid things sometimes that I find incredibly frustrating (like forgetting passwords for mail accounts) b/c I can see that it's 'almost but not quite there'.

[-Q-]

Originally posted by holderlin:
iDVD is the Apple product I dislike most. It does everything but burn a dvd!

Bob

Huh? I thought you could burn a DVD project in iDVD?

[wataru]

Originally posted by holygoat:

• Terminal doesn't close the window when the shell process closes (as with 'exit').
• You can't delete some files out of the Trash - empty all or none.

Look at the preferences before you bitch about stuff like number one.

And for number two... If you don't want to delete something, don't put it in the trash! Wow, what a concept!

[holygoat]

Originally posted by wataru:
Look at the preferences before you bitch about stuff like number one.

And for number two... If you don't want to delete something, don't put it in the trash! Wow, what a concept!

I'd checked in 'Preferences', but not 'Window Settings' - great! I don't remember that being in Jaguar. Thanks!

Regarding the Trash - if I want to delete something, I'd like to really delete it, not move it to a special, crippled folder.
I regard the Trash as a 'staging area' - 'things to be deleted that I can change my mind about' - otherwise, things would just be deleted, yes?

As such, why can't I selectively delete things from the Trash? Say I want to delete a 600MB file, and I know I really want it to go, because I need the space. In the absence of an actual Finder delete command, I either have to suddenly be sure I won't change my mind about the other files (empty the Trash), or leave the file in the Trash (taking up space).

I have this ability in Windows, KDE, and Gnome - all you need to do is treat the Trash as a folder, and deleting from it really does delete. I consider not being able to selectively delete files as missing functionality.
(of course, I could visit ~/.Trash and rm the files, but I'd rather not have to)

According to what you're saying ("If you don't want to delete something, don't put it in the trash!"), you wouldn't mind if things randomly disappeared from the Trash. If you did, surely you wouldn't have put them in there, because you want them deleted?

[-Q-]

Originally posted by wataru:
And for number two... If you don't want to delete something, don't put it in the trash! Wow, what a concept!

Could you elaborate? I'm not sure I'm following.

[cybergoober]

Originally posted by holygoat:
I'd checked in 'Preferences', but not 'Window Settings' - great! I don't remember that being in Jaguar. Thanks!

It was there in Jaguar.

Originally posted by holygoat:
According to what you're saying ("If you don't want to delete something, don't put it in the trash!"), you wouldn't mind if things randomly disappeared from the Trash. If you did, surely you wouldn't have put them in there, because you want them deleted?

I wouldn't mind. Generally I empty the Trash almost immediately after I move something there. The Trash is NOT just another storage area�

[holygoat]

Originally posted by cybergoober:
It was there in Jaguar.

I wouldn't mind. Generally I empty the Trash almost immediately after I move something there. The Trash is NOT just another storage area�

Just my memory then

My point was that the Trash exists so you can make mistakes, giving you the opportunity to delete something, but change your mind.
However, there's no reason not to let me delete things directly that I'm completely sure of.
There are two ways of solving this: to allow deleting in the Finder (rather than 'move to trash'), or to allow optional deletes in the Trash. Use of the Trash as it was intended is incompatible with complete deletions of other files. You just can't do it without use of the CLI.

The latter option is safer, of course.
[NB: this is what Mail does - you can visit the Trash, and delete things selectively. It's just like another folder - which is what the Finder Trash should be IMO]

It puzzles me that the Trash is actually deliberately crippled - it would be trivial to simply enable deleting in the Trash.