Welcome to the MacNN Forums.

Krook · Feb 3, 2004, 03:57 PM

I've just received my 20 cinema display but the fonts are very un-smooth (dont know the real word for it) comparing to my CRT monitor. Ive changed the font smoothing style to "best for flat panel ")and its on optimal resolution+million colors.

Whats wrong? - thanks

cryon · 04:21 PM

hmm, strange. On my iBook fonts look normal "smoothed" with the setting "best for flat panel" it shoulden't be any different.

If everything else is dislayed correctly it can't be the display. have you tried reboot? (just asking

).... maby the antialias threshold mystriosly have been rised.

try this in the terminal: defaults write com.apple.safari AppleAntiAliasingThreshold 12

and check if fonts show up in safari correctly, if they do, then theres your problem. Otherwise i don't have a clue.

Art Vandelay · Feb 3, 2004, 04:22 PM

I've found on my 17" Studio Display that the standard setting (best for CRTs) looks best. The others either look blurred or jagged. On the other hand, my PowerBook looks best with the medium setting.

Art Vandelay · Feb 3, 2004, 04:23 PM

Originally posted by Krook:
I've just received my 20 cinema display but the fonts are very un-smooth (dont know the real word for it) comparing to my CRT monitor. Ive changed the font smoothing style to "best for flat panel ")and its on optimal resolution+million colors.

Whats wrong? - thanks

Also, if you haven't already, log out for the changes to take effect.

Krook · Feb 3, 2004, 04:27 PM

Reboot tried - the terminal thing did something - not sure what - looks like the small fonts are non-antialiased while the bigger fonts are the same-

What does that that terminal line do ?..im a little bit of a OSX newbie.

Developer · Feb 3, 2004, 04:40 PM

Type this into the Terminal:

defaults remove com.apple.safari AppleAntiAliasingThreshold

Then go to System Preferences->Appearance->Turn off text smoothing for font sizes of (X) and smaller and set it to a low value (like 4).

Krook · Feb 3, 2004, 04:46 PM

That undid what cryon suggested of course but didnt do anything else.

Developer · Feb 3, 2004, 04:50 PM

Originally posted by Krook:
That undid what cryon suggested of course but didnt do anything else.

What's the anti-aliasing threshold in System Preferences? What app? What font? Can you post a screen shot?

Krook · Feb 3, 2004, 04:57 PM

If you mean the "Turn off text smoothing for font sizes of (X) and smaller" I normally have it on 8 but i tried 4 as you suggested and logged out, but nothing changed.
Its in all apps, Finder and so on...

link to screenshot:
http://members.lycos.co.uk/thekrook/picture1.jpg

Developer · Feb 3, 2004, 05:35 PM

Originally posted by Krook:
link to screenshot:
http://members.lycos.co.uk/thekrook/picture1.jpg

That's taken with the "Best for CRT" setting. Looks fine. That's how it's supposed to look. Maybe your CRT was a little bit out of focus.

What you can try is create a color profile with SuperCal and select that for your LCD. You might like that better.

Krook · Feb 3, 2004, 05:50 PM

Well i just hooked back my CRT, and I see that the screens I gave you look just fine on that - so theres another problem....but what ?

Developer · Feb 3, 2004, 05:55 PM

Originally posted by Krook:
Well i just hooked back my CRT, and I see that the screens I gave you look just fine on that - so theres another problem....but what ?

Hook back your LCD, download SuperCal and make an optimal color profile for your LCD. Report back results.

Krook · Feb 3, 2004, 06:15 PM

No big differences after supercal - font still jagged.
I can see fter hooking back my LCD that everything looks jagged, the widgets, window corners etc. - not just the fonts.

Could it just be the LCD is screwed and needs to be send back for repairs?

Developer · Feb 3, 2004, 06:25 PM

It think you just have excellent eyesight and are not used to an LCD.

Spheric Harlot · Feb 3, 2004, 06:34 PM

Originally posted by Krook:
its on optimal resolution+million colors.

Just to clarify:

"optimal resolution" means the highest res possible, right?

Anything less is going to be jagged.

Krook · Feb 3, 2004, 06:40 PM

Originally posted by Spheric Harlot:
Just to clarify:

"optimal resolution" means the highest res possible, right?

Anything less is going to be jagged.

Yes

I dont think i have excellent eye-sight - its really a big difference. I've never had a LCD before but if this i the norm i'll go back to CRT immediately. But it simply cant be this bad - I dont believe it

bmedina · Feb 3, 2004, 11:28 PM

I agree that you're just not used to LCDs. They are a digital display technology, so the signal is not degraded by any D/A conversions. The result is very sharp images that really show any weaknesses in the source.

Don Pickett · Feb 4, 2004, 03:24 AM

Originally posted by bmedina:
I agree that you're just not used to LCDs. They are a digital display technology, so the signal is not degraded by any D/A conversions. The result is very sharp images that really show any weaknesses in the source.

That's not why LCDs are sharper: there is no bleed between pixels on an LCD monitor. CRTs always bleed, no matter how good the monitor. Even the best CRT will look fuzzy if you get close to it.

Jellytussle · Feb 5, 2004, 04:18 AM

I think the softness you're looking for could be obtained using Vaseline and a lint-free cloth, or perhaps stretching a stocking over the screen

Krook · Feb 5, 2004, 06:30 AM

Originally posted by Jellytussle:
I think the softness you're looking for could be obtained using Vaseline and a lint-free cloth, or perhaps stretching a stocking over the screen

I dont have stockings (that big), but i've got plenty of vaseline

- i'll try it

...seriously - I went to a store and looked at their apple displays and was "happy" to see that they looked just as bad as mine.
I'm not sure what i'll do now, cuz the quality really dissapointed me. Theres also a horizontal line moving across the Flurry screensaver.

Maybe i'll return it but i really want an LCD and i cant imagine other LCD's being better quality than the 20 inch Apple Display, and I cant wait until they find a way to improve LCD or come up with some new technology

jgcan · 08:52 PM

Originally posted by Krook:

I dont have stockings (that big), but i've got plenty of vaseline - i'll try it

...seriously - I went to a store and looked at their apple displays and was "happy" to see that they looked just as bad as mine.
I'm not sure what i'll do now, cuz the quality really dissapointed me. Theres also a horizontal line moving across the Flurry screensaver.

Maybe i'll return it but i really want an LCD and i cant imagine other LCD's being better quality than the 20 inch Apple Display, and I cant wait until they find a way to improve LCD or come up with some new technology

Ok, I was, as you, disapointed at first when I bought my Powerbook, just wait a while you will get used to it. What made a big difference for me is to use "Strong" font smoothing, really the best to my taste. Then, make a color profile that will have a higher gamma than the Apple standard 1.8. It will darken the colors, make them more vibrant and fonts will look sharper (but you can loose in color accuracy).

Please try that and report.

KidRed · Feb 5, 2004, 08:57 PM

Originally posted by Krook:
If you mean the "Turn off text smoothing for font sizes of (X) and smaller" I normally have it on 8 but i tried 4 as you suggested and logged out, but nothing changed.
Its in all apps, Finder and so on...

link to screenshot:
http://members.lycos.co.uk/thekrook/picture1.jpg

I don't see anything wrong with the fonts in the screen cap. What am I missing? I have the 23" and that's exactly what I see. There is no difference between this screen cap and my monitor. The fonts are fine, crisp yet very smooth. I have no idea where you are finding fault.

Peabo · Feb 5, 2004, 09:29 PM

Originally posted by Krook:

I dont have stockings (that big), but i've got plenty of vaseline - i'll try it

...seriously - I went to a store and looked at their apple displays and was "happy" to see that they looked just as bad as mine.
I'm not sure what i'll do now, cuz the quality really dissapointed me. Theres also a horizontal line moving across the Flurry screensaver.

Maybe i'll return it but i really want an LCD and i cant imagine other LCD's being better quality than the 20 inch Apple Display, and I cant wait until they find a way to improve LCD or come up with some new technology

What you're seeing is the true quality of what's on your screen. If you get a CRT, you'll just get a blurred verison, it's worse quality, not better. Whether you like it or not, the CRT is just blinding you to the truth

They are not going to 'improve' LCDs by blurring them, that would make no sense. If anything, they will get crisper over time. For people who work with graphics etc, the difference really matters. I dunno why you'd prefer a blurry image over a crisp one anyways!

It's like how you can't really see mpeg compression artifacts on a DVD when played on a TV, but they are much more obvious on a computer.

Spheric Harlot · Feb 5, 2004, 09:29 PM

Originally posted by Krook:
Yes

I dont think i have excellent eye-sight - its really a big difference. I've never had a LCD before but if this i the norm i'll go back to CRT immediately. But it simply cant be this bad - I dont believe it

Make sure you calibrate the display.

Pretty soon you'll start squinting heavily every time you use a CRT because everything's so out of focus.

-s*

Burke · Feb 5, 2004, 09:36 PM

I may be a total weirdo, but I actually LIKE the "jagginess" of fonts displayed on an LCD. It sure beats the fuzziness of a CRT, IMHO.

Krook · Feb 6, 2004, 06:20 AM

Originally posted by jgcan:
Ok, I was, as you, disapointed at first when I bought my Powerbook, just wait a while you will get used to it. What made a big difference for me is to use "Strong" font smoothing, really the best to my taste. Then, make a color profile that will have a higher gamma than the Apple standard 1.8. It will darken the colors, make them more vibrant and fonts will look sharper (but you can loose in color accuracy).

Please try that and report.

I am slowly getting used to it - Im just still a bit dissapointed that i have to on such an expensive monitor.
The higher gamma profile is good - thanks jgcan

KidRed · Feb 6, 2004, 01:41 PM

The expense of the monitor has no baring on your issue. It's a LCD issue. You are just getting used to the way a LCD works compared to a CRT. CRTs are brighter and have a greater contrast ratio, so things tend to pop more. That isn't necessarily a good thing. No matter what monitor you get you'll experience the same issue if it isn't a CRT. Place any CRT big TV to any plasma or LCD or CLP and the CRT will win most of them. Though there are obvious reasons to junk your CRT and go flat panel, the same is true for computer monitors.

You monitor is fine, it's just your eyes will need to adjust to a different screen technology.

chabig · Feb 6, 2004, 07:02 PM

I don't think you ever confirmed that the display is set to 1680 x 1050. Anything else will result in lower quality images.

Chris

GeneShifter · Feb 9, 2004, 10:30 PM

Originally posted by Krook:
I've just received my 20 cinema display but the fonts are very un-smooth (dont know the real word for it) comparing to my CRT monitor. Ive changed the font smoothing style to "best for flat panel ")and its on optimal resolution+million colors.

Whats wrong? - thanks

Nothing is wrong. It is the unfortunate side of anti-aliasing fonts. I had turned it off on my powerbook screen because I couldn't stand it either, but Panther's implementation is much better and not a problem anymore on my LCDs. Also, I never have this problem on my Win XP machine, so it's obviously an effect of how Apple executes the AA. There have been a lot of posts about this here and on other forums. FYI, I think I found the hack to turn AA off at macosxhints.com but again Panther AA is far better than Jaguar.