[Eug Wanker]

As of today, the eMacs are faster than the iMacs!

CPU speed - identical at 1.25 GHz (previously 1 GHz on the eMac)
Memory speed - identical at DDR333 (previously PC133 on the eMac)
L2 cache - 512 KB on the eMac, 256 KB on the iMac (previously 256 KB on the iMac)

This is a pretty significant upgrade for the eMac.

[Eug Wanker]

Oh and the SuperDrive eMac is an 8X burner. Faster than the Power Macs.

[BrunoBruin]

Does the cache size indicate these are using the 7447 processor?

I think we will shortly see speed-bumped (G4) iMacs as well, probably also sporting the 8X burner. A price drop wouldn't hurt the iMac, either.

[Eug Wanker]

Originally posted by BrunoBruin:
Does the cache size indicate these are using the 7447 processor?

Yes. I believe the old eMac used the 7445, but now it must be using the 7447, which is the same CPU as in current PowerBooks.

There's also the 7447A, but it's probably not the one the eMac uses. The 7447A has the same L2 cache as the 7447, but it is lower power and has a higher maximum clock. If the PowerBook and iMac get G4 updates, they'll get the 7447A, but there's not much point for it in an eMac at this time.

I think we will shortly see speed-bumped (G4) iMacs as well, probably also sporting the 8X burner. A price drop wouldn't hurt the iMac, either.

Yeah, the 15" 1 GHz iMac with GeForce4 MX and 4X SuperDrive really looks like an even worse deal now, for $1299.

[Vader�s Pinch of Death]

New iMac's will not be far behind.

I rather have a slightly slower SMALL computer on my desk over a big CRT eMac that is a bit faster either way.

[Turias]

Originally posted by Vader�s Pinch of Death:
New iMac's will not be far behind.

I rather have a slightly slower SMALL computer on my desk over a big CRT eMac that is a bit faster either way.

The size isn't that big of a difference. The kicker, though, is comparing the $800 eMac to $1800 iMac.

[Immortal K-Mart Employee]

Originally posted by Turias:
The size isn't that big of a difference. The kicker, though, is comparing the $800 eMac to $1800 iMac.

CRT's suck, the eMac's display is not movable (without that extra stand) end of story.

[Turias]

Originally posted by Immortal K-Mart Employee:
CRT's suck, the eMac's display is not movable (without that extra stand) end of story.

If you want to spend an extra $1000 on an LCD and a movable arm, that's fine. More power to you. Still, the eMac is a good deal and there are a lot of people out there who will want to purchase one.

[djohnson]

I am debating buying one... Must wait to see what the iMac's have though...

Wouldnt it be cool if they upgraded them later today?

[leperkuhn]

if apple expects people to migrate from cheap windows boxes, why are they only still selling all in ones to consumers? these people have a monitor hanging around.

[Eug Wanker]

Originally posted by Vader�s Pinch of Death:
I rather have a slightly slower SMALL computer on my desk over a big CRT eMac that is a bit faster either way.

Errr... That's like saying "I rather have 23" Cinema Display on my desk with NO computer on my desk than a big CRT eMac."

Of course, both the 17" LCD iMac and the 23" Cinema Display (even without a computer) cost way more than the eMac.

The eMac is a reasonably well-spec'd machine that is affordably priced. I prefer the iMac too, but I don't think the iMac tax is justified.

I'm thinking however that when the iMac finally does get upgraded (G4 or G5), it will DROP in price.

[zeebe]

You guys are all forgetting what the eMac was originally made for: Education! That is why it starts with an e, but so many non-education people asked for it Apple sold it to the masses. The reason they made it for education is for computer labs like mine, where a flat panel iMac would soon have many many many bad pixels from students touching the screen here and there. That's the reason the eMac is out there, I am glad it is as the iMacs would be a pain to clean the screen and keep the fingers off.
My 2�

[Eug Wanker]

Originally posted by zeebe:
You guys are all forgetting what the eMac was originally made for: Education! That is why it starts with an e, but so many non-education people asked for it Apple sold it to the masses. The reason they made it for education is for computer labs like mine, where a flat panel iMac would soon have many many many bad pixels from students touching the screen here and there. That's the reason the eMac is out there, I am glad it is as the iMacs would be a pain to clean the screen and keep the fingers off.
My 2�

I know where you're coming from, but that's not the reason. As we've already been discussing in this thread, the issue. The eMac does the job just fine and costs a LOT less than the iMac.

[Immortal K-Mart Employee]

Originally posted by Turias:
If you want to spend an extra $1000 on an LCD and a movable arm, that's fine. More power to you. Still, the eMac is a good deal and there are a lot of people out there who will want to purchase one.

Hell, the eMac is an awesome deal. Right now I wouldn't want an iMac over an eMac as I know the iMac bumps are close. When the iMac's are upgraded though I would pay more to have an LCD and a small form factor.

[nredman]

G5 iMac anyone?

[Eug Wanker]

Originally posted by nredman:
G5 iMac anyone?

Maybe. At the top end, either G4 1.42-1.50 GHz or G5 1.5-1.6 GHz.

I suspect the iMac update will probably happen sometime around the time the G5 Power Macs get updated.

[discotronic]

I'm surprised nobody has mentioned the video card. Apple should have at least put a 64MB card in the high end model. Other than that I feel that a person couldn't go wrong picking one up.

[Commodus]

I don't think that 64 MB of video memory is as essential here. As Apple implies on the eMac's graphics page, many of the other computers in its price range are using Intel integrated graphics - so their 256 MB is more like 224 MB (if they even have that much). While it's not a good value compared to lower-end gaming systems, it's better in the market it's meant for.

That said, Apple really needs to sort out the iMac, because that's where they're hurting the most. A 1 GHz G4 with a GeForce 4 MX just shouldn't cost $1299, even with a 15" LCD attached. I want to see them either use an updated G4 and lower the price, or to use a G5.

[redJag]

if you choose the bluetooth option when customizing an emac, do they ship the bluetooth keyboard and mouse with it or the wired ones?

[Vader�s Pinch of Death]

Originally posted by redJag:
if you choose the bluetooth option when customizing an emac, do they ship the bluetooth keyboard and mouse with it or the wired ones?

Why would they? For $50 you would be getting almost $200 worth of equipment.

[Eug Wanker]

Originally posted by Commodus:
I don't think that 64 MB of video memory is as essential here. As Apple implies on the eMac's graphics page, many of the other computers in its price range are using Intel integrated graphics - so their 256 MB is more like 224 MB (if they even have that much). While it's not a good value compared to lower-end gaming systems, it's better in the market it's meant for.

That said, Apple really needs to sort out the iMac, because that's where they're hurting the most. A 1 GHz G4 with a GeForce 4 MX just shouldn't cost $1299, even with a 15" LCD attached. I want to see them either use an updated G4 and lower the price, or to use a G5.

Agreed, on both counts. 64 MB, although nice, is not essential, but the low end iMac does truly suck. Indeed, the pricing on the other iMacs is too high too, even if the specs were upgraded. The prices must come down (like the eMac prices did today) even when the specs are upgraded at the next refresh.

Originally posted by redJag:
if you choose the bluetooth option when customizing an emac, do they ship the bluetooth keyboard and mouse with it or the wired ones?

Wired. The Bluetooth keyboard and mouse are $$$.

[iDaver]

Originally posted by Vader�s Pinch of Death:
Why would they? For $50 you would be getting almost $200 worth of equipment.

It would be nice if there was such an option, for $40 extra, the difference between keyboard and mouse 1 vs. keyboard and mouse 2.

[Eug Wanker]

Originally posted by iDaver:
It would be nice if there was such an option, for $40 extra, the difference between keyboard and mouse 1 vs. keyboard and mouse 2.

Except that if I understand it correctly, you still need a wired mouse and keyboard for certain troubleshooting.

[discotronic]

Originally posted by Eug Wanker:
Except that if I understand it correctly, you still need a wired mouse and keyboard for certain troubleshooting.

Don't you need the regular keyboard and mouse in order to install drivers for the wireless ones?

[iDaver]

Originally posted by discotronic:
Don't you need the regular keyboard and mouse in order to install drivers for the wireless ones?

They're probably built in the firmware or ROM of Bluetooth capable Macs, although I don't really know. There probably are instances when you must have a wired keyboard and mouse for troubleshooting. I remember back to the days of ADB, when I had a USB PCI card and USB keyboard and mouse which were useless when troubleshooting.

[Spliff]

Originally posted by discotronic:
I'm surprised nobody has mentioned the video card. Apple should have at least put a 64MB card in the high end model. Other than that I feel that a person couldn't go wrong picking one up.

Agreed. Any computer released in 2004 should have at least a 64 MB video card. But Apple has always put underpowered video cards in their machines compared to their PC counterparts. Look at the low end G5 and the lame-ass video card it ships with. But I suppose Apple can't put a better video card in it without greatly reducing their profit margin.

[Graymalkin]

The eMacs GPU is pretty powerful but I agree that only have a 32MB card is a little weak. With the relatively powerful 1.25GHz G4 and Radeon the eMac can handle some serious gaming. It runs into a wall however with its paltry amount of video RAM which is going to limit the number and depth of textures games can effectively use and cause the framebuffer to crowd in on texture space. I suppose Apple is figuring with the faster system RAM the GPU using its AGP memory apeture won't be as big of a hit as it would be with 133MHz SDR memory.

[galarneau]

I'm in the market for a desktop in the next few months, and right now the only thing keeping me from buying an eMac is the refresh rate of the screen at 1280x960. 70Hz just kills my eyes after a while. I know you get higher refresh rates at lower resolutions, but I'd like more than 1024x768. As it is, I may just see if 80Hz at 1152x864 is sufficient.

This is, of course, assuming that a G5 iMac isn't released in the next two months. I'd drop $1800 on a 17" G5 iMac in a sec... especially if it had a decent video card (Radeon 9600 or sumthin')

[sniffer]

BTW: The spanning hack worked in the last revision, it might work in this one as well. If you have room for it on your desk, adding a cheap 19" doesn't cost to much.

[Zoom_zoom]

wow, pretty cool superdrive!! The iMac update will just be around the corner!

[tooki]

Originally posted by leperkuhn:
if apple expects people to migrate from cheap windows boxes, why are they only still selling all in ones to consumers? these people have a monitor hanging around.

Well, an interesting fact is that most consumers and non-graphic-arts business buyers replace whole systems, monitor and all. Consumers often don't even know that the monitors are interchangeable.

The upshot is, they get rid of the whole old system and buy a new monitor anyway. So Apple's all-in-one idea isn't so farfetched.

tooki

[JasonA]

Well, then they should come out with a model for intelligent consumers as well as the clueless ones already covered.

[iDaver]

Originally posted by JasonA:
Well, then they should come out with a model for intelligent consumers as well as the clueless ones already covered.

Ha Ha, pretty funny (and true) but what tooki said is right. Many PC users would just assume their PC monitor won't work with a Mac so the all-in-one eMac is a good choice for those folks.

One more than one occasion, I've sold a used VGA monitor to a PC user and (knowing I'm a Mac user) they questioned whether it would work with their PC. One guy (a friend) insisted on taking one home to make sure it would plug in to his PC before he paid for it.

[megasad]

I look and I look on the Apple website but I cannot find out whether the hard drives in the new eMacs are 5400rpm or 7200rpm. I'm pretty sure that the old models had 7200rpm ones, but it is now ever so slightly cheaper than before to make the hard drive larger in capacity and so I wonder... Does anyone know, one way or the other?

[Krusty]

Originally posted by discotronic:
Other than that I feel that a person couldn't go wrong picking one up.

Agreed. There is absolutely nothing wrong with the new eMac at its price points. Yeah, its big, heavy, and the monitor doesn't swivel ... those are the sort of "extras" that partially explain the great leap in price to an iMac. The eMac is one helluva bang-for-your-buck machine.
If the next iMac rev is still a G4 (or even a really slow G5), I'm going to snap up an eMac, I think. The next iMac would really have to have some MAJOR horsepower advantage over the eMac (eg. 2.0 ghz G5 .. not unthinkable to have the top end iMac with the same processor as what most people speculate will be the next low end G5 .. they did that before when the FP iMac first came out: 800mhz SD iMac coexisted with 800mhz low end PM for several months). Also, considering that I've had the same machine for over 4 years now, I think the eMac will probably be a better choice if I'm going to keep the machine for 3 or 4 years. Say what you will about the luscious look of an LCD, they still just DON'T last as long as CRTs right now (backlights burn out, dead pixels arise, etc) and they only have one native resolution with that luscious look.

Originally posted by Vader Pinches a Loaf:
I rather have a slightly slower SMALL computer on my desk over a big CRT eMac that is a bit faster either way.

Wait .. aren't you the one who always b!tched about the folly of having an expensive LCD permanently attached to a "disposable" computer ??

[Eug Wanker]

I was thinking of recommending an iMac for our lab, but the price is just wonky. I'm actively considering an eMac now.

However, I will wait a few weeks, for an iMac update. If the 17" iMac's price drops by say $200 US, I'll probably recommend the iMac (assuming the updated specs are reasonable). A 17" iMac for US$1599 seems a tad expensive but at least in the right ballpark. A 17" iMac for $1799 just seems overpriced.

[zeebe]

Originally posted by Eug Wanker:
I was thinking of recommending an iMac for our lab, but the price is just wonky. I'm actively considering an eMac now.

However, I will wait a few weeks, for an iMac update. If the 17" iMac's price drops by say $200 US, I'll probably recommend the iMac (assuming the updated specs are reasonable). A 17" iMac for US$1599 seems a tad expensive but at least in the right ballpark. A 17" iMac for $1799 just seems overpriced.

What kind of lab do you have? Is it for a K-6 school or is it higher? If it is lower grades, definitely go with the eMac. The iMac's flat panel screen can be damaged very easily by students touching it, and if it is a K-6 school, you should know that the little kids love to touch the screen. If it is a higher level education lab, go for the iMac, they older kids will love the moveable screen.


Edit -
I forgot to add that there is more then just the two eMacs available for education, here are the specs of the other models:
Low End
� 256MB SDRAM DDR333 - 1 DIMM
� 40GB Ultra ATA drive
� Keyboard/Mac OS - U.S. English
� 1GHz PowerPC G4

Next Level Up
� 256MB SDRAM DDR333 - 1 DIMM
� 40GB Ultra ATA drive
� Keyboard/Mac OS - U.S. English
� 1GHz PowerPC G4
� CD-ROM drive

Hope this helps

[tRr]

I just noticed this as well!

They aren't listed on the Canadian Online Education Apple Store, but they are on the University of Toronto's website... $799 CDN for the low end and $875 CDN for the second one. Don't see any reason why you can't slap your own SuperDrive into the low end one and save some $$$.

That much easier now for my sister to get one

Originally posted by zeebe:

Edit -
I forgot to add that there is more then just the two eMacs available for education, here are the specs of the other models:
Low End
� 256MB SDRAM DDR333 - 1 DIMM
� 40GB Ultra ATA drive
� Keyboard/Mac OS - U.S. English
� 1GHz PowerPC G4

Next Level Up
� 256MB SDRAM DDR333 - 1 DIMM
� 40GB Ultra ATA drive
� Keyboard/Mac OS - U.S. English
� 1GHz PowerPC G4
� CD-ROM drive

Hope this helps

[zeebe]

Originally posted by tRr:
I just noticed this as well!

They aren't listed on the Canadian Online Education Apple Store, but they are on the University of Toronto's website... $799 CDN for the low end and $875 CDN for the second one. Don't see any reason why you can't slap your own SuperDrive into the low end one and save some $$$.

That much easier now for my sister to get one

Do you think there will be a door for the superdrive in the low end? I don't see Apple making a seperate case, but it would suck to get it and not have a door. Also, you do know that these two use 1GHz chips and not 1.25GHz. I wonder if they are the same chip, but are not sped up to the 1.25?

[tRr]

I also can't see them redesigning the case (though it looks like you have to rip the eMac apart to install an optical drive). I guess they might not route the cables to the drive, but even that I doubt...

The processor doesn't matter for her (student surviving on an early Performa...), price is the key issue (every dollar counts... and they have an $80 off a printer now as well). The old eMac's some had luck over clocking, guess we will have to wait and see how these turn out out to be...

[turtle777]

Originally posted by redJag:
if you choose the bluetooth option when customizing an emac, do they ship the bluetooth keyboard and mouse with it or the wired ones?

No, there is NO way of getting Bluetooth keyboards and mice INSTEAD wired ones as build to order.

I discussed this matter in length with Apple on the phone.
Reason being: in order to set up the new eMac, you need a wired keyboard. It just doesn't work to do the initial installation with BT.

Pretty bad, if you ask me. There should be a way, because it is just plain stupid to be forced to buy 2 keyboards if you want BT.

Ah well...

-t

[Oneota]

Originally posted by turtle777:
No, there is NO way of getting Bluetooth keyboards and mice INSTEAD wired ones as build to order.

I discussed this matter in length with Apple on the phone.
Reason being: in order to set up the new eMac, you need a wired keyboard. It just doesn't work to do the initial installation with BT.

Pretty bad, if you ask me. There should be a way, because it is just plain stupid to be forced to buy 2 keyboards if you want BT.

Ah well...

-t

You're forgetting that BlueTooth devices need to be paired together to work. No good way of doing that at the factory (since they just basically NetRestore the HDs before they package them up).

[kovacs]

Originally posted by Eug Wanker:
Maybe. At the top end, either G4 1.42-1.50 GHz or G5 1.5-1.6 GHz.

I suspect the iMac update will probably happen sometime around the time the G5 Power Macs get updated.

I don't see that happening it's either a G4 or a G5...

[Shaddim]

Originally posted by Eug Wanker:
Maybe. At the top end, either G4 1.42-1.50 GHz or G5 1.5-1.6 GHz.

I suspect the iMac update will probably happen sometime around the time the G5 Power Macs get updated.

The 17 and 20 iMacs will go to a 1.6GHz G5 within the next 45 days, I guarantee it. Too bad the 15" will be discontinued though... but there will be a decent drop in the 17, so it won't be nearly so painful. The Power Mac update will happen about 30 days after that.

[Eug Wanker]

Originally posted by kovacs:
I don't see that happening it's either a G4 or a G5...

Yes, isn't that what I said?

Actually what I meant is that that if they went G5, all would be G5, with the top end being around 1.6 GHz. If they went G4, all would be G4, with the top end being 1.5 GHz.

[kovacs]

Originally posted by Eug Wanker:
Yes, isn't that what I said?

Actually what I meant is that that if they went G5, all would be G5, with the top end being around 1.6 GHz. If they went G4, all would be G4, with the top end being 1.5 GHz.

Aah... oops

[Eug Wanker]

Well, now that the 1.5 GHz PowerBooks are out, it seems like 1.5 GHz iMacs would be a logical refresh, if the G5 iMacs can't come soon.

But what about the 20th anniversary of the Mac?

[discotronic]

Originally posted by Eug Wanker:
Well, now that the 1.5 GHz PowerBooks are out, it seems like 1.5 GHz iMacs would be a logical refresh, if the G5 iMacs can't come soon.

But what about the 20th anniversary of the Mac?

It doesn't look as if Apple is going to do anything special for the big 20. It would definately be a shame if they didn't.

[Simon]

Originally posted by Eug Wanker:
Well, now that the 1.5 GHz PowerBooks are out, it seems like 1.5 GHz iMacs would be a logical refresh, if the G5 iMacs can't come soon.

I agree.

Here's what I would expect:

- 1.33GHz, 17", FX 5200 with 64MB, 256/80, Combo, BT, 3xUSB2, 2xFW400, $1499
- 1.50GHz, 20", FX 5200 with 64MB, 256/120 SuperDrive (8xDVD-R), BT, 3xUSB2, 2xFW400, $1999

That GPU is rather sucky for a prosumer, but Apple has been pretty skimpy with iMac GPUs, so...

I guess most would call this a humble update, but since I can't see Apple putting in better specs (the G4 is top, the GPU can't be better than the PowerMac's) I guess they will try to do it with lowered prices. Staying sub-2000 would be a good decision on Apple's behalf.

Compared to the new eMac:
- $700 gets you a 17" TFT, a faster CPU, better graphics and a larger HD
- $1000 gets you a 20" TFT, a faster CPU, better graphics and a larger HD

[Edit: corrected typo]

[iDaver]

Originally posted by Simon:

Here's what I would expect:

- 1.33GHz, 17", FX 5200Go with 64MB, 256/80, Combo, BT, 3xUSB2, 2xFW400, $1499
- 1.50GHz, 20", FX 5200Go with 64MB, 256/120 SuperDrive (8xDVD-R), BT, 3xUSB2, 2xFW400, $1999

(Sigh) I suppose. Somehow I'd be more impressed if, instead of the G4s listed, those specs included 1.6 and 1.8 G5s and their faster busses. Then, I'd consider buying one even though I'm a notebook guy.