[niconono]

4K78 cannot boot on beige G3s and some Powerbooks.
So, how can it be the final ??
Must be FC1.

Damned!

[Cobra]

Please do not say that 4K78 is not GM.

People are getting very upset when you say that.

Cobra

[This message has been edited by Cobra (edited 03-12-2001).]

[Gametes]

You've got it backwards: people get upset when you say it IS GM, which it is NOT.

[johnnylundy]

Originally posted by niconono:
4K78 cannot boot on beige G3s and some Powerbooks.
So, how can it be the final ??
Must be FC1.

Damned!

Well, I hope you are right. Apple says it basically is, and it's so slow that if they ship and demo this thing, the press will never stop. On the other hand, bad publicity is better than none maybe..

The reason why your 4K78 image can't boot on beige G3's and some PowerBooks (all Old World architecture machines, by the way) is because you illegally pirated a Disk Copy-format image of 4K78 that has been floating around online. If you had the real CD from Apple (or if the warez kiddies knew how to make a proper image), you wouldn't have any problems. Grow up and stop complaining about builds you obtain illegally. The real CD boots beige G3's and all supported PowerBooks just fine.

And 4K78 is GM, by the way (yes, 4K78 is Release Candidate...but wait! It's also the GM! Sheesh you people kill me sometimes.)

[niconono]

Of course it came from Carracho.
Apple didn't send anything since PB to their *registered* (student) developers.
So I (we) have to get it from myself.
Anyway I don't like piracy.

how is K78 the GM or even a FC (which it is not)
when we have K80, and K83?
These are just not leaked as much. but im sure in the next couple of days you will find them poping up.
Ask any developer, or any REPUTABLE mac web site.
try: http://www.railheaddesign.com/
Just to name one good source.

Come the 24th Mac OS X will be all it is said to be, and more.
speed is not a problem :-)

p.s. I woudl like to retract my previous post (in another thread) when I said window resizing is STILL slow. in K83 it is real time, just as fast as live-draging a window, and the make as windows 2K :-)

peace :-)

We *don't* have 4K80 and 83, etc. There are no separate secret parallel builds. 4K78 was the last build, period, and everyone celebrated the gargantuan task just accomplished last week. Live with it.

[Gametes]

No one said anything about secret parallel builds, That's the mythical 5L series. But you are wrong nonetheless; k78 is FC, k8* is GM.

mememe, i'd like to believe you. i hope you are correct.

i think that 4K78 is something very close to what GM is. I wouldn't expect massive surprises or speed increases. Apple MAY surprise us by having some new apps that we're not expecting, but nothing major in terms of the OS itself.
it's amazing the faith people have in Apple - they're a little disappointed with recent builds but fully expect Jobsian magic in two weeks time - secret parallel builds, intentional misinformation by leaking odd builds - confusing the Carracho community, secret optimizations unseen by others. It seems to me that if nothing else Apple is too damn busy at the moment to be doing this kind of stuff. I mean, what'd be the point?
It will of course improve over time, in terms of speed and features. On current hardware, though, at the current state of the OS's development, I think this is it.

I've played with 4K73 on a friend's machine and loved it.
When GM comes out, I'd recommend a clean install. App launching may be much faster if the install is clean.

just my .02

[This message has been edited by ekoelbel (edited 03-12-2001).]

[This message has been edited by ekoelbel (edited 03-12-2001).]

[Mr Scruff]

Originally posted by mememe:
how is K78 the GM or even a FC (which it is not)
when we have K80, and K83?
These are just not leaked as much. but im sure in the next couple of days you will find them poping up.
Ask any developer, or any REPUTABLE mac web site.
try: http://www.railheaddesign.com/
Just to name one good source.

Come the 24th Mac OS X will be all it is said to be, and more.
speed is not a problem :-)

p.s. I woudl like to retract my previous post (in another thread) when I said window resizing is STILL slow. in K83 it is real time, just as fast as live-draging a window, and the make as windows 2K :-)

Originally posted by Gametes:
No one said anything about secret parallel builds, That's the mythical 5L series. But you are wrong nonetheless; k78 is FC, k8* is GM.

How do either of you know this? Where are you getting your builds from mememe?

K73 was not a Final Candidate
K78 was the first final candidate

has anyone ever beta tested?
especiall with an OS there is more than one FC.
even with AOL 4.0 (back in the day here.. lol)
there were 6 or 7 FC's most the beta testers never saw.
I think we got 2 at the most.

they dont send FCs to the developers. FCs are for removing debugging code & final optimizations. the builds DO NOT necessarily say FC, as in K83 it just says K83 :-)

But there are K83 builds, probably a few beyond that are gone now.
after FC all they do is change the versions to 10.0
any any others (like 1.1 for some drivers, etc.)
and build it fully optimized (which none of the K builds are. none.)
even the PB has debug code in it. not sure why, would been cool to be more optimized for PPC architecture, as developers and such got newer builds the very next day :-) but I guess there was some point to this.

I dont belive in secret leaks (not quite), or paralell secret builds, or what have you. I do know that K78 was not the last FC, it is deffinaley not GM.

Hell, for the sake of argumentation lets say: your right! K78 is the very final final GM. that is what we are getting, its being pressed to CDs printed & shrinkwrapped as we type. (probably most done by now)
one fact still remains, the K78 you have and the GM are totally diffferent in the fact that the K78 is built in DEBUG mode and the Final 10.0 CDs are built in Optimized mode. there is TONS of debugging code in K78, poke around with different startup methods and you will see what is taking soooo long to boot, remove all that and you have 1/3 boot times, and probably 1/2 program load times.

open your system prefrences on K78. opens prettyy fast huh?
wait till you get the Final CD off the store shelf, or from UPS
It will be 1/2 that time, almost instintaneous depending on your machine. and that is the truth.

If im not correct come the 24th Ill be back here saying so MYSELF.

fear not my fellow mac-users. you will be surprised, steve wouldn't have it any other way.

here is some juice. the setup assistant is changed (for the better) you will love it! trust me. <-- hard to do I know, I wouldnt belive any of this either.

[Lord Kronos]

I totally agree with you mememe:

k78 was seeded to developers as FC, so I guess it's the first FC (or a bit above), and it certainly isn't GM, since Apple isn't going to let anyone see the GM before the 21st.

k78 is fast to me, and I know that it has absolutely no optimization of any kind, then I can't wait to see final, it's going to be SO FAST .

Agreed.

thanks, glad to see level headed people :-)

not just oh no its SO slow... LOL

[Milio]

Interesting how people are attacking the posts made by piracy. Do you know who piracy is?

Dick Cheney?

LOL! he just might be!

why do people say "do you know who he is"
instead of just saying :-(

so... who is he?

Do you people want to believe there are 4K8* builds to make yourselves feel better or something? What a bunch of thankless folks. It took a lot of work to get to where Mac OS X is now. A LOT of work. There will be a lot better coming, but 4K78, exactly as was sent to developers last week with NO changes, including the build number still being displayed in the About box, is what you are getting on the 24th. If you don't like it, don't use it.

[Mr Scruff]

Originally posted by Milio:
Interesting how people are attacking the posts made by piracy. Do you know who piracy is?

No, who?

[Lord Kronos]

If 4k78 is GM then Apple is dead, it's as simple as that, it would be a disaster, k78 is NOT release material, it would make a perfect PB 2 though.

Mac OS X can't be postponed to MWNY, the press would simply kill Apple.

[This message has been edited by Lord Kronos (edited 03-12-2001).]

LOL ARE YOU JOKING ME!
You Honestly belive that when you pop on your Mac OS X Install CD and install it will install build K78 with debug code?

AND WHEN YOU GO TO THE ABOUT BOX IT WILL SAY K78?!!?!?!

I thought you were intelligent, but I was sadly mistaken

Why in the world would it say K78 that is an internal build number!

All of us at the office are having a good laugh over this...

Hey I just got an AOL Cd in the mail, and when I Installed it it said AOL Version 5.0 Beta 4! LOL

I also got a photoshop CD and it says "6.0 Developer relase" (in the notes it says, sorry we were too lazy to change the version number..)

Damn maybe you are on to something.. hell that would save them about 5 minutes! maybe enuff time to get those damn icons shifted to the left a little...

(ouch my side hurts)

[apple emp]

you guys are hilarious


geezus you people need to take a FREAKING BREAK FROM THESE BOARDS until the release.



------------------
not speaking for my employer, these views are mine alone

[Milio]

Originally posted by mememe:
so... who is he?

Oh...just someone telling you something you would rather not believe.

Or it's Dick Clark.

It's not me. I can tell you that much for certain. And what OS X 1.0 is will be known by all in 13 days.

[Mr Scruff]

You made it sound as though he/she was someone important. Perhaps Avie or Steve?

mememe, I expect to see you back here on the 24th eating your words, as promised. That's the last thing I have to say about it.

[Milio]

Originally posted by Mr Scruff:
You made it sound as though he/she was someone important. Perhaps Avie or Steve?

Why do Avie and Steve get all the glory? There's a lot more people at Apple doing a hell of a lot of overtime.

Oh...just someone telling you something you would rather not believe.

Something I CAN'T Belive!

do you think your final CD will say K78? and be full of Debug Code?
NO OS Apple Has ever sent out publicly has had a beta version number. those numbers are for internal use only to keep rack of builds. the public dose't need know anything but 1.0 or such.
the ony such exceptions is update like the "new": OS 9.1 CDs with the new G4s but they are still 9.1 not 9.1K7498329845 they just have updated drivers...

you aren't goint to call apple for suppport and say yes im running OS X.... blah blah..

and they will say oh do you have K78 or the newer K79 or perhaps the updated L32 released last week?

It will be do you have 1.0? or 1.1? (when available) etc.. (or 10.0 or 10.1 whatever)

Hey im not saying that OS X is going to be the golden messiah of OSes im saying its going to be much better than the K78 FOR DEVELOPMENT POURPOSES ONLY leaked buld that you have.

mememe, I expect to see you back here on the 24th eating your words, as promised. That's the last thing I have to say about it.

I will be here!

[Mr Scruff]

Originally posted by Milio:
Why do Avie and Steve get all the glory? There's a lot more people at Apple doing a hell of a lot of overtime.

Agreed, but Avie and Steve are still the main bods. We've already had a thread showing our appreciation to the hard working folks at Apple.

[Milio]

--removed for suspense---

[This message has been edited by Milio (edited 03-12-2001).]

[crayz]

k78 is fast to me, and I know that it has absolutely no optimization of any kind, then I can't wait to see final, it's going to be SO FAST

None? Come on. Maybe it still has some debug code in there, but it's not like they'd leave all the optimization for the last week. And BTW, I was sort of believing "piracy" until he said it would ship still being called 4K78. Come on that is just BS. I think with all the people reporting that they've used 4K80 and 4K83, it's pretty clear that those builds do exist.

[Lord Kronos]

Apple Emp, maybe you could tell us who's closer to the truth: mememe or piracy ?

I don't think you would violate your NDA by doing so.

[Lord Kronos]

Originally posted by crayz:
k78 is fast to me, and I know that it has absolutely no optimization of any kind, then I can't wait to see final, it's going to be SO FAST

None? Come on. Maybe it still has some debug code in there, but it's not like they'd leave all the optimization for the last week. And BTW, I was sort of believing "piracy" until he said it would ship still being called 4K78. Come on that is just BS. I think with all the people reporting that they've used 4K80 and 4K83, it's pretty clear that those builds do exist.

I meant no real optimization, writing better code and optimizing are two different things.

[apple emp]

memememe is closer

but really it doesnt matter what build people have pirated, they are not the FC


cheers



------------------
not speaking for my employer, these views are mine alone

[Lord Kronos]

Originally posted by apple emp:
memememe is closer

but really it doesnt matter what build people have pirated, they are not the FC


cheers

Thanks apple emp, very instructive.

I can't wait to have the BEST and FASTEST OS ever on my machine .

I meant no real optimization, writing better code and optimizing are two different things.

yes, it was optimized codewize but not buoidl wize, you either build for speed or to find potential problems...

when I put a turbocharger on a race car of mine, i didnt back out of the driveway and hit it full throttle to see what that baby could do, i tested it to make sure it was all setup right and so I didn't crack the engine block in half.. after testing, It was setup for the best 1/4 mile it could do :-) (Curently low 11's [hey its a import..lol])

anyway, im glad this forum is here.. i haven't done ANY work yet today... lol

but really it doesnt matter what build people have pirated, they are not the FC

I admit to pirating the K78 build, but anything before i used/saw on a edu-developer friends machine...

But, I ordered a copy from outpost & will probably buy another at CompUSA cause I have no patients come the 24th :-)

(not saying that makes pirating ok if you buy the final, it dosen't in my opinion)

Im sooo excited for the 24th!


anyone know if we can d/l iTunes on the 24th?

One more time: 4K78 is GM. You will see on the 24th. All you have to do is wait.

Ok i will wait (unpatiently though)

[Lord Kronos]

Looks like we're all going to camp here to see who's right. May the 24th come fast...

[snodman]

Look, the "real" 4K78 that was FedEx'd to the paying members of the ADC last week is still an FC. It was purported to be FEATURE COMPLETE. Feature complete means the component list that is in it will match the GM. Tweaking of OS X at Apple CONTINUED after that version, but new FEATURES would not be added to the actual GM. Remember the real purpose of mailing all the developers this version was so they could DEVELOP. They could get a sense of the direction OS X is taking and can see what made and did not make the cut for 1.0 so they can write thier own programs accordingly. It ain't the Golden Master. The actual GM is a big "lose your job if it gets out before March 21" secret. Sheesh.

Rereading this thread, let's back up a bit. People aren't asking for secret alternate builds of OS X. They're asking for more speed/quickness. Right? Right. So people saying that 4K78 is what you'll get as final are right. There's no big difference about its behavior or looks. Fine. The final is like 4K78. OK.

Now could it maybe, just maybe, be that the subsequent 4K8* builds are just like 4K78 but a little faster? No! It can't be! Burn him! Ooh, they're just like 4K78, but quicker!

I just done' see where the argument is or why people are polarizing these discussions.

snodman, you are right on

Now could it maybe, just maybe, be that the subsequent 4K8* builds are just like 4K78 but a little faster? No! It can't be! Burn him! Ooh, they're just like 4K78, [i]but quicker![/i

I agree, K78 or even K73 is featuer complete (for the most part) I think some apps will appear that aren't in K78, this is bound to happen.

I just can't agree with other who say K78 IS the final. no way.

[TheShadyOne]

I installed the 4k78 and was pretty pleased with it..there were some minor errors that bothered me that dealt with the dock crashing on me when trying to launch Hotline!

I know that 4k78 is not the final build! OSX is like...a fine Roman Sculpture. OSX is getting there but 4k78 has some rough edges and when we all see the finally polished marble product on the 24th it will be perfect.

As said in previous posts..I dont think good ole Steve would let us down by publishing something that wasnt a compleated project!!

[gorgonzola]

RAILhead has just reported that 4K78 is not the FC.
Wincent reported that 4K78 is not the FC.

These sites are trustworthy, and even if they're BS-ing -- you know what? I'm having a lot more fun reading their pages than listening to people bitch and moan about 4K78, FC or no FC.

Save the whining for the 24th. There have been one too many "Listen to me bitch and moan (long)" threads popping up in this forum lately.

It's just getting irritating, whether you're right or not.

------------------
the oddball newsletter
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it's only after you lose everything that you're free to do anything

[Misha]

Originally posted by Milio:
It's [piracy] not me. I can tell you that much for certain. And what OS X 1.0 is will be known by all in 13 days.

Funny thing is, you and that unregistered member "piracy" have the exact same IP address... may wonders never cease!

[This message has been edited by Misha (edited 03-12-2001).]

Damn, must be your split personality....

BUSTED

LOL

Actually, I'm not the same as anyone else here. Our institution uses CacheFlow web caching servers, and all 50,000 people here would appear the same to these forums. If any of the administrators would like to contact me directly to verify this, please post.

[griffman]

For everyone that's saying that 4K78 is the Golden Master, please see this thread:

http://forums.appleinsider.com/ubb/F...ML/001082.html

over on AppleInsider. Look at the first screen shot (while it's still there ;-). If this is the GM, can someone explain what the words "CAPTION_AFP_IS_OFF", "DESCR_AFP_IS_OFF", "CAPTION_WEB_IS_OFF", AND "DESCR_WEB_IS_OFF" are doing on the sharing setup screen? This really doesn't strike me as the type of thing they'd leave for the summer update! :-)

BTW, notice that I am not claiming the existence of parallel builds. I'm merely pointing out what others have said - there's no way that 4K78 is the golden master, from which all copies of OS X will be made!

-rob.