[Simon]

OK, I booted my 12" PowerBook just this morning after it had been running for a couple of days perfectly fine. The grey startup screen with the Apple was staying around forever. Normally the PowerBook boots completely in a minute, but here I was looking at this grey screen for about a quarter of an hour. There was some disk noise, so I guessed something was going on.

Suddenly the disk goes 'clonk' and then I hear this beep that sounded exactly like an the beep an old DOS PC did when you booted it. Where did that beep come from? The Mac hadn't even booted yet!

Finally, after about half an hour the PowerBook had booted and I could log in. Everything was slow, lots of disk access. DiskUtility checked permissions and found nothing. I booted from my FireWire disk (with a recent backup on it) and checked my PowerBook's disk, but no errors were found. I booted in single user mode and did a /sbin/fsck -yf (disk is journaled) and it reported no errors. These checks ran for a very long time (much longer than they used to take), but they never found any errors.

I'm thinking of backing up and formatting the disk to see if it gets any better. But that strange beep scared me! What was that? Never heard a Mac beep like that. Can the disk beep? Can the board beep? Is the disk screwed? Or the board? Any idea what the hell is going on here? My warranty is running out in less than two weeks, so if it's really a hardware problem I have to find out quickly.

I'd be very grateful for any advice or insight on what is going on here. Has anybody else ever experienced such a beep?

[jamesa]

first: back up the hard drive. do not do another thing on the machine until it is 100% backed up. also, don't overwrite any old backups - if the drive is dying, the data integrity of the new backup may be compromised, you may need parts (or all) of the old backup

second: open up disk utility, click on your drive (the top one; don't click on the partition) and then look down the bottom for "S.M.A.R.T status". It should say "verified".

if it says something bad, time for a new disk. if it says verified, it still could fail. buy diskwarrior and run the full gamut of tests. if it passes all that... I don't know.

disk drives are kind of like relationships - once there's no more trust, it'll just eat you from the inside out. I'd replace it anyway.

-- james

[Simon]

Originally posted by jamesa:
first: back up the hard drive.

Already done. Data is safe.

second: open up disk utility, click on your drive (the top one; don't click on the partition) and then look down the bottom for "S.M.A.R.T status". It should say "verified".

Did that already too. It passed with 'verified', but do I have to trust it? Is SMART that reliable? And what the hell was that strange beep?

disk drives are kind of like relationships - once there's no more trust, it'll just eat you from the inside out. I'd replace it anyway.

I'd replace it myself indeed, but the trouble is I have to convince my Apple dealer that the disk is fubar so he can replace it on warranty.

I'm going to format the disk and see if that helps. If it doesn't I'll re-install Panther. And if that doesn't help I'll have the dealer replace the disk. But since this is my main work machine it sucks to be without it for the week it will take him to get the warranty repair done.

[jamesa]

Originally posted by Simon:
Did that already too. It passed with 'verified', but do I have to trust it? Is SMART that reliable? And what the hell was that strange beep?

That happens on some of the drives, I think it has something to do with the disk mounting/unmounting. I have a lacie external drive, it does it occasionally...

have you run diskwarrior on the drive? if it says it's ok, I'd be inclined to trust it. SMART verified just means that you don't have an imminent and obvious disk failure approaching.

I'd replace it myself indeed, but the trouble is I have to convince my Apple dealer that the disk is fubar so he can replace it on warranty.

I'm going to format the disk and see if that helps. If it doesn't I'll re-install Panther. And if that doesn't help I'll have the dealer replace the disk. But since this is my main work machine it sucks to be without it for the week it will take him to get the warranty repair done.

One good way to fubar a drive is to move it at sharp velocities while doing a write operation. but i wouldn't recommend that... because you don't want a fubared drive, do you?

-- james

[vinster]

Originally posted by Simon:
Did that already too. It passed with 'verified', but do I have to trust it? Is SMART that reliable? And what the hell was that strange beep?

I'd replace it myself indeed, but the trouble is I have to convince my Apple dealer that the disk is fubar so he can replace it on warranty.

I'm going to format the disk and see if that helps. If it doesn't I'll re-install Panther. And if that doesn't help I'll have the dealer replace the disk. But since this is my main work machine it sucks to be without it for the week it will take him to get the warranty repair done.

I had a 40GB IBM drive in my Pismo that started misbehaving. My computer would start to a grey screen and stay there, absolutely no other activity. Occasionally, when the computer was powered off for a day or two, I could boot. I was able to run disk utility and other repair apps and the S.M.A.R.T. status verified, but the disk was definitely bad so I ended up putting the stock 10GB drive back in and haven't had another problem.

[Simon]

Well, here's the update.

I re-formatted (where was that option to zero the entire drive and check for bad sectors? couldn't find it) the drive and did a clean re-install of Panther.

Ever since, the problems have dissapeared. So I guess it was software after all, but what the hell was that beep? I still can't believe my Mac made such a sound. I've owned quite a few Macs, but never heard such a thing. Strange.

And btw, I guess the culprit was one of these language package deleters (DeLocalizer and Monolingual). I had run them shortly before and it must have deleted some necessary system files. I will never use such an app again, and certainly not if it's not right after backing up...

[SpaceMonkey]

Did the beep sound like one of these?: http://www.thetechwolf.com/wraider/

I get a similar sound from my boot drive (I'm on a G4 tower) when it wakes from sleep. However, I have some cooling issues and the boot drive is underneath my other drive, so I'm taking my case to be a heat issue, which means the noise is most likely mechanical. I haven't had any problems with the drive or data loss though--seems to be running smoothly otherwise (so far).

[Simon]

Originally posted by SpaceMonkey:
Did the beep sound like one of these?: http://www.thetechwolf.com/wraider/

Indeed, it did sound the like the first sample you listed.

[Simon]

OK, here's another update. I'm starting to feel rather stupid here, because after claiming it's software I'm back to guessing the disk is actually really broken.

When I got up this morning I noticed everything was slow as molasses again even though I was now on a fresh and clean Panther install. The SMART status is still verified, so I thought, the hell with that SMART baloney and booted the machine. I didn't get past the grey Apple intro screen.

I booted again, and again it stalled at the grey screen, but now I heard the disk ticking. It lasted for a couple of minutes and then I heard clunk and the beep again. I haven't got the PowerBook to successfully boot from the internal disk ever since. It boots from the FireWire backup disk however.

So I guess tomorrow I'm going to take the PowerBook in. I'll ask them to check the board and the disk and to replace the disk if necessary, which I guess will be the case. If they replace it I'll request they take the 7200rpm Hitachi 80GB and let me pay the difference. I hope it will work that way.

[Simon]

So, I finally brought it to my dealer this morning.

He looked like but he took it. I told him to try something disk intensive like ASR (which will not complete) and he'd see that the disk is not working properly.

He told me it could take up to two weeks to fix it.

At least it happened a couple of days before warranty runs out.

[Simon]

Finally, after two weeks of waiting my dealer called up and said he could reproduce the disk errors and that he would exchange the disk as a warranty repair.

But, he would need to order the replacement disk from Apple which would take another week at least! My PowerBook would then have been gone for three weeks already!

I told him to forget that and just take one of the 2.5" 5400RPM disks he had in stock and put it in there. It will cost me about a $100, but I really want my PowerBook back because I'm going to travel to a conference soon and I really need it.

He called back an hour later and said, that he would need to ruin my bottom case! I couldn't believe my ears, so I asked him to repeat. Apparently, the screw above the hole for the Kensington Lock could not be released and he was going to have to drill it out. Now, after doing that he would not be able to put a new screw in and he would need to order a replacement bottom case from Apple. The best part is, that I get to pay the bottom case! He mentioned that by using the Kensington lock there was somehow too much stress put on the case or the screw and thus the damaged screw and damaged case were 'user abuse'. And btw, it would take an additional week to get the bottom case replacement part too.

OK, I was on the verge to telling him to go get you-know-what, but I decided I'd try to get him to make me a decent offer. We settled on me paying the disk and the case and him paying the labor. I can pick up the PowerBook today and use it with its new disk, but the screw missing. In the meantime he'll order the new bottom case and I'll return the PowerBook for an hour to replace the bottom case when the part arrives.

In the end I still feel kind of screwed.

Apple advertises the Kensington lock. I used it in accordance to the way Apple and Kensington recommend. Obviously Apple did a crap design in wrongly placing the screw or making the lock hole too flimsy, etc. But why do I get to pay for all of this under warranty? And why does it take Apple a full week to send a replacement disk? I really wonder if I'm getting screwed here.

Of course I'm looking forward to getting my PowerBook back and I'm glad it will be working, but there's definitely some bad aftertaste to the whole story. A high-end product like the PowerBook shouldn't break after 11 months of careful use. And if it does, it should be repaired quickly and for free the way people expect warranty to work. And a high-end product shouldn't have faulty screws either. Darn!

Any opinions here? Am I getting screwed or is this really Apple's way of treating customers?

[shatten22]

WOW. that sucks.

Why did you take it back to your dealer? I would have just sent it back to Apple. They usually don't take too long. And I think Apple wouldn't have even bothered you with the cost of the bottom case, cause to do the repair they would have had to open it.

Sounds like your dealer sucks.

Also, I have had over six laptop drives die on me. I have figured out it's because of peer to peer sharing software like Bit Torrent. File sharing screws with permissions somehow and writes to the disk erratically. I know this sounds weird, but it has corrupted my data so much that it causes the drive(s) to be accessed oddly which then screws up the heads on the drives and BAM wonky, dying drive.

S.M.A.R.T. never told me once that a drive was a dying. My system would just fall apart like yours did. First very slow, then sectors I couldn't access, finally constant accessing of the drive (stuck) followed by that high-pitched beep.

anyway, you shouldn't have to pay for labor under warranty.

g

[Simon]

Originally posted by shatten22:
WOW. that sucks.

Yep.

Sounds like your dealer sucks.

Indeed.

Why did you take it back to your dealer? I would have just sent it back to Apple. They usually don't take too long. And I think Apple wouldn't have even bothered you with the cost of the bottom case, cause to do the repair they would have had to open it.

Actually, I was told by Apple Switzerland (where I am currently living) that I have to bring it to my dealer, because I bought it from him and the device would be repaired under warranty by him. They would only take it if it was bought through the AppleStore or out of warranty. I will be buying any future hardware through the AppleStore so this is the last time I should have to put up with my dealer's repair shop.

S.M.A.R.T. never told me once that a drive was a dying. My system would just fall apart like yours did. First very slow, then sectors I couldn't access, finally constant accessing of the drive (stuck) followed by that high-pitched beep.

I think SMART is full of ****. The drive was clearly fubar, it wouldn't complete any larger tasks (booting from disk, ASR backups, permission checking, etc.), and it was ticking constantly. If SMART can't detect something my grandma's ears could, I think it isn't worth a cent. Marketing...

[jamesa]

Simon, my advice to you is to raise merry hell. The case is Apple's fault - not yours. After a week I'd have insisted they provide me a replacement computer in the mean time, and let them fix the disk drive while you had their computer.

At the very least, get your money back for the case. That's an Apple design flaw.

The other thing you probably need to be aware of is if the new drive now dies under warranty, it won't be covered by Apple.

-- james

[Mastrap]

Originally posted by jamesa:
Simon, my advice to you is to raise merry hell.

I agree 100%. If there was no 'user abuse' then there is no reason at all why you should have to bear any of the cost for the repair. You're being taken for a ride by your dealer.

I know I am late to the party, but I know the noise you're talking about. My PB played the same trick on me that it played on you. But as I had bought mine from the Apple store, my repair story is happier. It took Apple four days to fix mine, from pickup to delivery back to me.

[jamil5454]

I still have a drive that does that. It's definately dying. It was a 2gb Quantum in a windoze98 box. All of the sudden the drive started making accessing noises continuously, and all disk operations were really slow. Finally I backed up my data and then certain sectors started failing. Now when I turn on the drive it makes several clunks and then a loud purring. Like I said in an earlier post, sure 5400RPM may be BTO from Apple, but 4200RPM will generally run cooler and therefore (hopefully) last longer than a 5400RPM or 7200RPM in a laptop. Laptop drives usually fail because of heat. The SMART thing was weird - before my Compaq Armada drive failed, SMART told me "Disk Controller Error - Imminent Drive Failure" and so I had time to prepare. I later found out the Aramada's fan had stopped working and I concluded the disk overheated.

Another thing that might have happened was a slight bump to your PB. The disk platters are spinning away at unbelievably close distances to the heads (way less than a hair's width) and just a simple knock would cause the head to crash into the platter.

About the case, are there any disadvantages to using the PB with a screw missing? I've never had a PB but with my other laptops I could easily use them just as I had before with a couple case screws missing.

[Simon]

Originally posted by jamil5454:
About the case, are there any disadvantages to using the PB with a screw missing? I've never had a PB but with my other laptops I could easily use them just as I had before with a couple case screws missing.

Yes, I have been thinking about using it with a missing screw and saving the cost of a new bottom case. The problem is that I normally switch my Macs every 12-18 months and the resale value of the PowerBook will certainly suffer form such an evident thing as a black hole with a missing screw on the side of the case.

Tomorrow I'm going to call my dealer and tell the Austrian (God, I hate that accent) bastard that's supposed to fix it to just put the new disk in and get over with it. I'll pay the $100 for the disk and that's it. Then, I want to talk to the boss of the outfit and finally I'll report the whole incident to Apple. No way a joint like this should be able to call itself 'Authorized Apple Service Center'.

Jeeze, I just hate the whole story. If I wouldn't have just bought a new ACD I think I'd chuck the PowerBook and buy a new 1.5GHz 15" model with all the bells and whistles...

[Simon]

OK, for those of you that think the story can't get worse, forget it. It can.

I went to pick it up today. The disk is replaced and it really feels a lot faster. And it's quieter. I'm fine with paying $100 for that.

The 1h labor is being billed to me because the whole incident is due to 'user abuse' as they claim. That 1h costed me another $120.

But here's the real kill: When I came home with the PowerBook and wanted to install a fresh Panther I noticed that I can't insert any CDROMs. Somehow there seems to be some obstacle they put behind the slot of the optical drive about an inch from the left end. I can't really see what it is (since the felt protection of the optical drive is in the way), but it will not let me put in any disk. I called them up and they thought maybe something went wrong when they put it back together (duh) and that I should bring it in again tomorrow. They assured that they would try to fix it right away.

Great. My PowerBook is still unusable and I have to waste another two hours just to take it back in and have them put it back together the way it's supposed to be done. What a bunch of idiots. I would have been better off if I had just done it myself.

[euphras]

One sugestion: Call Apple, tell them about the crappy dealer, about the "user abuse" he claims and that you have to pay for fixing a machine thats still under warranty. Maybe your dealer gets some unpleasant phone calls from the "mothership".

[Simon]

Originally posted by euphras:
One sugestion: Call Apple, tell them about the crappy dealer, about the "user abuse" he claims and that you have to pay for fixing a machine thats still under warranty. Maybe your dealer gets some unpleasant phone calls from the "mothership".

I am actually thinking about doing just that. I'm just wondering what the proper channel at Apple is to file the complaint.

[jamesa]

You didn't happen to buy it in the US, did you?

If so, ring them and whinge bitterly.

If it's a local EU purchase, find the details for Apple Europe. If they are unhelpful, threaten with calling your "friends" at Apple US (I'm presuming you have an American accent, by the pastime you have while placing your feet on the PC )

-- james

[Simon]

OK, get ready for another: 'It can get even worse' type of post.

I went back to the dealer to get the optical drive fixed. It turns out there's some obstacle behind the felt cover of the slot preventing the insertion of any disk. The technician (again this Austrian guy) takes a look at it and thinks he may have forgotten a screw in there. Forget a screw? What do I go to a 'Apple Certified Technician' for?

He lets me sit around for about 40 minutes. He returns with the PowerBook and inserts a disk perfectly fine. I'm all happy and take the PowerBook home.

At home I put the PowerBook on the table and want to re-install Panther when I notice that there's a half inch long scratch in the plastic covering the TFT screen. A real scratch! It's well visible, but at least it's not in the center of the dispaly. It's about an inch from the right border, roughly two inches from the bottom. I'm stunned. The guy has managed to scratch a perfectly impeccable screen. It had no dead/stuck/broken pixels, no scratches, nothing. And this idiot manages to scratch it.

I was in complete rage.

Anyway, I hooked up the PowerBook to my ACD and went into closed-lid mode to avoid having to look at the scratch. So I want to insert the Panther disk to re-install the OS and voila, the obstacle is back again. The disk can't be inserted. Just like before I took it in last time!

I called back and the Austrain technician tells me that it was probably some loose screw that gets into the way when I travel the PowerBook. At least that's how he explained that it worked in the shop, but not when I came home. He recommends I bring it in again and he'll take it apart.

Let me sum up. I went in with
- a perfectly fine looking (and 100% taken care of) PowerBook
- a dead disk

I have now
- a PowerBook with a working disk
- a big fat scratch in my TFT display
- a big hole in the side with a missing screw
- a bent and scratched bottom case
- a non-usable optical drive (due to some 'loose screw')
- $220 less on my bank account

Originally I planned on selling the PowerBook when the next revision comes out. I was guessing that I could still get $800 for it. It was in perfect condition, had a 768MB RAM and APX & BT built in. Now, it doesn't look like I could sell it at all. Great.

I really don't like feel like bringing it in again. I don't know what he'll break this time. Maybe he can tear off the entire display or drop it or... I'm wondering who at Apple would be the right person to send the whole story to. IMHO the dealership owes me. I'd like a new bottom case and TFT screen for free. The dealer says no way. But, I'm pretty sure Apple can't approve of this kind of 'Authorized Service Center'.

I'm reaslly pissed off.

[euphras]

Maybe you should mail the whole story directly to "our beloved leader", Steve Jobs (link to this thread). Not that there is a big chance that he reads the mail personally but you can be sure to get things movin�. Search these fora for threads where valuable email adresses are mentioned.

And keep us updated

[jamil5454]

OMG, I would have to wash the $h!t stains off my pants after that ordeal.

Call Apple and start crying. That's what I would do.

If you go back to your dealer, demand a new case and screen (or whole new PB) or threaten to call Apple or sue. You might want to put some pads under your clothes to look muscular. Tall shoes wouldn't hurt either. If a 6'4" buff dude came up to me angry, I'd probably piss my pants.

[SSharon]

I say keep bringing it to be fixed and be firm that its their fault for the screen and case damage. Call Apple and point out that they admit its their fault but still want you to pay and maybe something will happen. Unless you can figure out the right channel to go through try every channel. Call every number, and e-mail every address, just be nice to Apple. Get them to be on your side before you tell them that their case design is flawed.

[Simon]

I'm starting to wonder if anybody will ever believe this story. It's getting even worse now.

Today I brought it in because my optical is unusable since the last time the technician 'fixed' it. After letting me wait for half an hour he came back and told me to check back in in about an hour because he needed to take apart the entire optical drive. He claimed there was a loose screw inside.

I went back home and got a call pretty much an hour later. He tells me that he can't fix the PowerBook because an apprentice that was supposed to take it apart ripped off the Airport antenna from the Airport card and that he would need to replace the card and the antenna which would take at least till tuesday. I was on the verge of going crazy.

Every time I bring in my PowerBook to fix something, they manage to break something else!

After some pretty bad bitching I got him to organize a replacement PowerBook (an 867MHz 15", duh) until he can fix my PowerBook. He'll put my disk in the 15" so I can still access my data.

I really don't know what to say. When this is over (if ever) I will talk to the head of support at the store. Either they fix my screen and case or replace the thing all together (for free of course) or this story is going to Apple and every national consumer organization I know of. This is just fscking unbelievable. I can not believe what they have done to a perfectly fine PowerBook. Instead of putting in a new disk they ruined it. I can't believe it. I really can't.

[mrmister]

WOW. I don't even know what to say, but you have all of our sympathies.

[DeathToWindows]

Originally posted by jamesa:

disk drives are kind of like relationships - once there's no more trust, it'll just eat you from the inside out. I'd replace it anyway.

-- james

bloody great

Is this an Apple Authorized repair facility? If so, call up Apple and let them know. That is an impressive level of stupidity...

[tungtied07]

Im really srry. I hope it gets better for u... Apple should replace your machine

p.s: good luck!

[urrl78]

Apple should fix or replace your Powerbook if this guy is an authorized dealer. No ifs ands or buts. Still even sadder stories have happened. I had to send my 15" to Apple. It came back with damage again and again, but after the fifth time it looked as good as new. I don't believe Apple is out to screw anyone, there are bad "apples" in any corporation. I believe Apple will fix or replace your problem if you give them a chance. Stop waiting and contact Apple and tell them your story. You don't owe the dealer anything; he owes you and his pathetically inept techs ruined your laptop, plain and simple. I would settle for nothing less than a perfect unit from Apple and that includes the screen. Forget your dealer, it's over.
Wake up and smell the coffee; you have been taken for a ride by these guys from the get go; they probably even accidentally stripped your screw the first time and made up the Kensington lock story. Stop falling for every story they give you; their track record proved they don't know what they are doing. You might as well have gone to the zoo and placed your laptop in a cage to let a gorrilla fix it.

[Simon]

Originally posted by urrl78:
You might as well have gone to the zoo and placed your laptop in a cage to let a gorrilla fix it.

That's rather true, unfortunately.

I'm feeling rather stupid, because in the past I have opened several PowerBooks myself (actually back at the university when I was an undergrad I worked part time at an Apple dealer and did some repairs myself), I have all the necessary disassembly guides at hand and I think I could have certainly replaced the HD myself. But, since it was still under warranty and I didn't want to take chances voiding AppleCare etc. I figured I'd bring it in to an 'authorized' dealer.

It would have been cheaper and faster to do it myself and I certainly would have taken more care of my favorite Mac. I'd like to hit myself on the back head with a big club for this whole god awful shitty mess.

I will contact Apple however.

Btw, the dealer called me this morning an mentioned that I would probably get my bottom case replaced for free after all because he thinks the torn off antenna can't be just replaced like that, but that Apple will supply them with a new bottom case. Hmm . Don't know if that makes sense. Of course I wouldn't mind. However, I'm wondering if they're just trying to cover their a$$.

[tungtied07]

Originally posted by urrl78:
Apple should fix or replace your Powerbook if this guy is an authorized dealer. No ifs ands or buts. Still even sadder stories have happened. I had to send my 15" to Apple. It came back with damage again and again, but after the fifth time it looked as good as new. I don't believe Apple is out to screw anyone, there are bad "apples" in any corporation. I believe Apple will fix or replace your problem if you give them a chance. Stop waiting and contact Apple and tell them your story. You don't owe the dealer anything; he owes you and his pathetically inept techs ruined your laptop, plain and simple. I would settle for nothing less than a perfect unit from Apple and that includes the screen. Forget your dealer, it's over.
Wake up and smell the coffee; you have been taken for a ride by these guys from the get go; they probably even accidentally stripped your screw the first time and made up the Kensington lock story. Stop falling for every story they give you; their track record proved they don't know what they are doing. You might as well have gone to the zoo and placed your laptop in a cage to let a gorrilla fix it.

That reminds me of an a bad iBook expereince that i had when I sent the ibook back for repair over 6 times! When I received the iBook back from every repair it got in worse condition. Finally, on its 7th repair, they replaced every single part in the iBook! It was like they rebuild my iBook Dual USB 600mhz from ground up again, because they replaced every part: from ibook's frame to its LCD screen! Apple is so stubborn sometimes, that I think they lost alot of money just repairing this iBook (overnight shipping there and back 7 times?, plus all the new parts?)
I hope apple correct their problem with your powerbook.

[Simon]

Update: My PowerBook is finally back from repair and broken.

After two weeks of waiting for my antenna cable to be replaced and working with a crappy Ti (broken hinge, not enough RAM, bad battery) as a replacement I finally got my PowerBook back.

Good news first: The optical drive seems to now work well again. The APX card finds the base station quickly and seems to work well so I guess they fixed the antenna cable properly.

Now, bad news: Of course the antenna cable was fixed w/o issuing a new bottom case. So my case is still bent and has a hole in its side. Next to the scratch they put on my TFT (which of course was not replaced in the meantime) they this time also managed to scratch the lid on the outside and the bottom case right beside the back hinge! These are multiple fine scratches that are well visible if you hold the PowerBook at the proper angle.

I talked to the technician right away about all this damage. He said he didn't do it. I told him that could well be, but that I didn't care who exactly did it, and that somebody at their shop did it and thus I want the shop to fix it. IMHO they should order a replacement screen, bottom case shell, and lid. And then when it arrives I want them to replace the stuff on the spot at once so that I don't have to be w/o PowerBook for another single day.

He said he wasn't in the position to make such decisions and that I'd have to talk to his boss who's the head of all technicians. Well, this boss wasn't there anymore yesterday evening, so I rang him up today. The secretary told me he was in a meeting, but that I should leave my number so he could call me back. I'm anxious to see how long it will take.

Darn, I want that PowerBook fixed. And if they can't fix it, they'll have to replace it. If this boss doesn't agree, I will demand to speak to the head of the entire shop and if he doesn't budge this story is going straight to Apple. I am so fed up with this joint I can't find words.

[vinster]

Originally posted by Simon:
Update: My PowerBook is finally back from repair and broken.

<snip>

Darn, I want that PowerBook fixed. And if they can't fix it, they'll have to replace it. If this boss doesn't agree, I will demand to speak to the head of the entire shop and if he doesn't budge this story is going straight to Apple. I am so fed up with this joint I can't find words.

Simon - my suggestion to you is to document as much as possible regarding this experience. I would also not say anything to the shop regarding your plans to escalate with Apple corporate. In fact, be as nice as possible to the dealer.

I think you need to present a clear case to Apple customer relations regarding your experience (and remain calm with them as well).

Good Luck,
Vinnie

[Simon]

Originally posted by vinster:
Simon - my suggestion to you is to document as much as possible regarding this experience. I would also not say anything to the shop regarding your plans to escalate with Apple corporate. In fact, be as nice as possible to the dealer. I think you need to present a clear case to Apple customer relations regarding your experience (and remain calm with them as well).

Vinnie, I will not mention going to Apple to the shop before I completely give up on them. Clearly, I am not trying to drive the shop out of business or to threaten them, but I want them to make up for their blunders. I will remain calm and kind with them, something I have actually always tried in the past.

I already have this whole story documented quite well. I will actually use this as a reminder for what happened on which date when I talk to the head of support. And if I in the end really have to go to Apple, I will at least have a clean summary of the whole story. After all, I've had enough time to write down the entire mess while I waited for my PowerBook to be fixed.

[crispinwilliams]

Simon - I also am located it Switzerland.. and had a problem with the ethernet socket (intermittent contact). I took it to the dealer - who are authorized to repair powerbooks - nonetheless they took care of packing it up and sending it to Apple for repair. It came back with a new logic board running at 867 MHz instead of 800 MHz, new palm rest and new harddisk - they had found a problem apparently. Maybe it was because I had bought AppleCare ... but I was very satisfied with the service. I find it highly suspect that your dealer has so obviously screwed you. I really suggest that you contact Apple immediately ... putting up with this nonsense makes no sense at all

[wuzup101]

I have to agree, it seems that you got royally screwed in this case. I would definitely talk to apple and see what they have to say. Since you have the case well documented you will sound professional and they will probably be inclined to believe you. Do it for your sanity and the sanity of anyone else who might use that "certified" dealer...

[MilkmanDan]

One of my roomies back in the States had an 867 12in under Apple Care. His HD and CD drive kept conking out, and he sent in in three times. Eventually he called them and said "I'm in college, I'm a computer science major, and I need this computer." They replaced it with a BRAND NEW 1.33 12in, and then he paid some extra cash to upgrade it a bit. Not a bad deal.

Thus the reason I asked for Apple Care for XMAS.

[Simon]

So, here's another update about this whole repair nightmare.

After waiting for nearly a week my calls were returned by the head of the support staff at my Apple dealer. He apologized for the delay, but claimed he was completely booked with all kinds of work. Fine.

He asked for the repair case number, and upon entering it into their database, immediately noticed that the whole repair job had lasted a month. I told him that this was part of the problem and that I was rather unsatisfied with the whole repair job actually. He asked me to explain in detail what had happened.

I summarized the whole story: I started by explaining that my PowerBook just needed a new disk under warranty, that this took the technician 4 weeks to achieve, and that in the process my APX antenna cable was ripped off, my optical drive made unusable by lose screws inside, that my screen was now scratched, that the bottom case shell had scratches and that the top cover was also scratched as well as the fact that I had spent $200 and 7 trips to their store in the process. I remained calm and friendly throughout all the details, but I made clear that to me this was a very bad support experience and that after having bought equipment at their store for roughly $15000 I felt rather bad about it. And I explained that I would like them to get my PowerBook back into the shape it was when I first brought it to them.

When I finished, he paused, then sighed and said that he was absolutely speechless. He said he was very amazed because normally technicians inform him when they break something, but in this case nothing had been mentioned. He promised to look into the case at once and he apologized sincerely for all the trouble that had been caused. He said, he understood well that I was unhappy with the repair job and he promised me that they would make sure that my PowerBook would at least be brought back into the condition it was when I brought it in. He told me, he couldn't say right away what this solution would look like, but he promised that he would phone me at the office before the end of this week and present a solution to this mess.

IMHO that sounds pretty good. He didn't try to talk himself out of it or to suggest I was exaggerating anything. He sounded calm and reasonable and certainly at lot more understanding than anybody else I've talked to at that store. I guess it sounds like they'll replace the screen and the case parts after all. He actually even mentioned the 'at least' part, which of course sounds like some additional compensation. Even though I'm tempted, I don't think I'll demand an entirely new PowerBook, but of course I wouldn't mind a new battery and a 1GB DIMM as an apology.

However, I have indeed lost some confidence in the PowerBook (lose screws rattling inside the case might have shorter anything...) and I wonder what other (unnoticed) damage could have been done inside when the outside already shows such well visible signs of abuse.

Perhaps I'll be extremely lucky in the end and they'll replace the abused PowerBook with a new 1.33GHz model.

[Pierre B.]

I am too late in this party, but I want to wish you good luck Simon. Your story is really unbelievable.

[Simon]

Originally posted by Pierre B.:
I am too late in this party, but I want to wish you good luck Simon. Your story is really unbelievable.

Thanks, Pierre. The support here on this board is really helping me not to go crazy because of the whole issue.

The technician boss didn't call me back today and the office work hours are almost over here in Central Europe, so I guess at least one of his promises (namely that he would present a solution to me by the end of this week) has already gone out the window. I hope this isn't a bad sign and it's the only promise he breaks.

[Simon]

Update: My damaged PowerBook will be exchanged today.

The head technician called me yesterday (after I had waited for a call for the past three weeks) and said they finally found a 12" PowerBook as good as new they would offer to me in exchange for my damaged PowerBook. I wondered what 'as good as new' meant and where they got it from (probably shoplifted somewhere).

He claimed, it was technically identical to my model and looked like new except for a tiny scratch under the display hinge that you'd barely see. He said I could come in and they would take my disk, RAM extension and APX card out and put it in the replacement PowerBook. The process should take them an hour and that they would issue me a new proof of ownership with the new serial number.

So, I'll go there this evening once again. I just hope the new Book is in perfect shape. I've made a snapshot of my System Profiler information and a couple of screenshots just in case I have to prove what was inside my old PowerBook. And I sure as hell hope the battery I get with this replacement PowerBook is in no worse shape than the one I have here (which only has a bout half the original capacity left).

If the replacement really looks like new and works fine, I'll be happy. I just hope everything works out - I've lost pretty much all confidence in the shop, but I will give them a chance to make up for it. The PowerBook will have to serve me another 3 months or so after which I hope to replace it with a new rev D 12" PowerBook (I hope something along the line of 1.5GHz G4, Radon 9800 mobility, DVD-RW, etc.). If the replacement looks like new and works fine it should still have a resale value of $650. At least I hope that's what I can get for it in March.

I'll post again tonight when I get the replacement and let you know if they kept their word.

[Pierre B.]

Cool. I wish you a happy end in this incredible adventure.

[tungtied07]

Yeah! Please keep us updated! good luck on your newer (hopefully) machine)

[Wiskedjak]

Originally posted by Simon:
If the replacement looks like new and works fine it should still have a resale value of $650. At least I hope that's what I can get for it in March.

I would hope it has a higher resale than that

[beeba123]

ugh.

my sympathy.

you should still throw them to the lions (apple), even if they do fix you up. but wait until that's been settled.

but you should still hold out hope for the shop so they have incentive to make things right.

then throw them under the bus.

[Simon]

The replacement PowerBook is good.

Yes, it actually worked and I got a really new looking and perfectly working PowerBook. It doesn't have a scratch, no dead pixels and it's got a brand new battery (ioreg says capacity is 4015 now vs. about 2000 before). They managed to take over my HD (5400rpm model), my APX card and my 512MD DIMM.

Of course my crappy dealer had to do something wrong so I took a close look when I came home with it yesterday (I did a first check in the shop, but there was no time for thorough testing there) just to make sure. Indeed when they put it back together they forgot to insert two screws! There are four screws on the back, namely on the top and bottom as well as left and right of the hinge. They actually forgot to insert the two on the top. Well, it would have been just too good if everything went clean.

There are a couple of interesting things I noted:
� First of all, judging by the serial number UV337xxx the new PowerBook is two weeks older than my 'old' PowerBook (UV339xxx), but it's from the same factory (what is UV btw?).
In these two weeks Apple managed to change quite a bit:
� The boot ROM version went from 4.7.2f2 to 4.7.5f1.
� The GF FX Go5200 ROM revision went from 2069 to 2069.1.
� My ComboDrive is no longer a Sony CRX821E, but a Matshita CW-8122. Any ideas which is better?
� Just to make sure I had the current BT firmware updates, I removed the BT firmware update receipt from /Library/Receipts/ and let SU install the new BT firmware again.
� Is there any other firmware I should update?

Anyway, I'm glad I now have a working and unscratched PowerBook again, but I certainly won't buy at that shop again.

This little beauty will have to last until either G4 rev D comes out or (if Apple actually goes G5 in january which I highly doubt) rev B of the G5 PowerBook.

BTW, thanks for all your support guys. I really appreciate it!

[Simon]

Originally posted by Wiskedjak:
I would hope it has a higher resale than that

Well, it's an interesting question. Maybe you guys can give me some more insight on this. I came up with the $650 (1Ghz, Combo, 40GB 5400rpm HD, 768MB RAM, APX & BT card) resale figure like this.

A current 12" PowerBook (Combo, APX card) costs $1599. It's got a larger (but slower) disk, 0.33GHz more clock, more VRAM. It needs another 512MB RAM, but that's cheap nowadays. It comes with a 12 month warranty.

A current 12" iBook (Combo, APX card) costs $999. It's got a smaller and slower disk, 0.2GHz more clock, but a crappier GPU. It needs another 512MB RAM, but that's cheap nowadays. It comes with a 12 month warranty.

Now, by the time I sell my 12" PowerBook I expect new PowerBooks to be available. Those will offer a lot better specs than mine so I guess mine will have to compete with the iBook. My PowerBook is already slower than an iBook now. It's advantages are size, looks, disk, DVI and GPU as well as the fact that it's got internal BT. But it's slower and has no warranty. That's how I figured I could ask for roughly $650. Is that really too low? I'd appreciate other opinions on this, since I'm no trading expert - I just want some cash to lower the cost of my next PowerBook purchase.

[Pierre B.]

Originally posted by Simon:

? First of all, judging by the serial number UV337xxx the new PowerBook is two weeks older than my 'old' PowerBook (UV339xxx), but it's from the same factory (what is UV btw?).

You can try this service. But I don't know if I would trust them the serial number of a machine under warranty. I don't know, maybe I am just paranoid .

[Person Man]

Originally posted by Simon:
� First of all, judging by the serial number UV337xxx the new PowerBook is two weeks older than my 'old' PowerBook (UV339xxx), but it's from the same factory (what is UV btw?).

UV is Taiwan. So is QT (which is what my PowerBook's serial number starts with... which makes sense because when I bought it, it was shipped from Taiwan).